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forcing team to change alingment

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
munners
Aug 09, 2009 8:41:13 Hey my character is evil/unaligned in 4e and i was wondering a good way to get the rest of my team (2 lawfully good, 2 good) to change to evil/unaligned?
we are doing the keep of shadowfell adventure.
also what is the next adventure (level 4 - 8 i believe) called?
#2
gelf
Aug 09, 2009 8:56:36 I suggest you become a vampire and then dominate all of them.
#3
kuonji
Aug 09, 2009 9:32:03 Why?

You seem to be the odd person out with the evil alignment in a party of good.

Easiest way: Ask the other players to change their alignments to evil.
#4
FrozenTime
Aug 09, 2009 10:43:58
Hey my character is evil/unaligned in 4e and i was wondering a good way to get the rest of my team (2 lawfully good, 2 good) to change to evil/unaligned?
we are doing the keep of shadowfell adventure.
also what is the next adventure (level 4 - 8 i believe) called?

I would also ask why you want them to change? If you have a very good reason you can always just ask them.

Which are you evil or unaligned? If you unaligned you should still be able to work with the party. If you are evil and the are at least good then it opens a different can of worms.

The answer to the second question is Thunderspire Labyrinth.
#5
doomsought
Aug 09, 2009 12:43:22 alignment means nothing. I keep saying this over and over. Just put 'unaligned' and choose a personality for your character. In fact, rip the pages on alignment out of your players handbook. They only cause needless arguments.

I'm serious about ripping them out of your book. Alignment had some purpose in 3ed , with a few spells that acted on it, but even then it should of been in the DM's manual, not PH.
#6
LordManshoon
Aug 09, 2009 12:49:14 What's the point? If it's because you feel like the odd man out, then I hate to say it, but it's you who should change your alignment for them. Unless this is a plot on your behalf to seduce your allies to the dark side. And I doubt very much that trickery or temptation will work, so asking them is the best way.
#7
CCS
Aug 09, 2009 13:34:23 It's a long term project. Or it can be.

But, all you really need to do is get them to consistantly commit evil acts with you.
The easiest way is to start small. Work on getting them to accept what you do/how you do it. You're their teammate, they should support you right?? But this complaciency towards evil is just as bad as evil itself.
And once complaciency sets in it's another baby step into minor participation....

Eventually their no better alignment-wise than you are.

Of course, if you're playing in an edition that includes it, there's always the good ol Helm of Alignment Change.
#8
salla
Aug 09, 2009 14:20:15
Alignment had some purpose in 3ed , with a few spells that acted on it,

A FEW?!

Anyway, Doomsought is right about alignment not mattering. I don't use it in my games, and nobody's noticed or cared.

Just play your character, and if the party kicks your butt for doing evil deeds, make one that's not evil next time.
#9
anidmaro
Aug 09, 2009 15:42:15 Why would you want to change their alignments? If it's because you don't want to be the odd man out... well tough luck you're the one who chose to be evil. If it's because of a RP reason however (you want to tempt them to the "dark side", or maybe your character is brutally pragmatic)... then it'll take a while but with adequate persuasion you might be able to do it.

Present your heinous acts as something more wholesome. Did you brutally murder a 'good guy'? What if he wasn't a 'good guy' after all? Maybe he was a 'bad guy'?

Look, he was a mercenary hired to kill us... here's the written contract he was carrying.

What? No I didn't write that, look the penmanship is totally different (you did take care to write in a distinctly different way when you forged that paper, right?).

I know, it's a brutal harsh thing, but this is the world we live in. After all, you guys don't think twice on slaying our other enemies, why is this one any different?

#10
johnnii
Aug 09, 2009 23:54:47 Don't make them evil/unaligned. Ask them to write "Cake" on their sheets in the alignment bar, and you yourself write "Pie" on your own. Then you try your best to make their alignment "Pie".

/Silly
#11
johnnyslick
Aug 10, 2009 1:23:27 Clearly the above poster is not fully awake. We were talking about good vs. evil here. Pie vs. cake is far more important, but if you really wanted to start a flame war... pie is delicious and versatile and therefore lawful good, which makes cake chaotic evil. The French basically revolted against the monarchy because Marie Antoinette said "let them eat cake" which is basically Antoinette-ish for "let them turn towards the dark side and worship devilry". Had she said "let them eat pie", there would have been no revolution and Napoleon would have invented baseball.
#12
Lone_Wolf_02
Aug 10, 2009 2:02:57
Clearly the above poster is not fully awake. We were talking about good vs. evil here. Pie vs. cake is far more important, but if you really wanted to start a flame war... pie is delicious and versatile and therefore lawful good, which makes cake chaotic evil. The French basically revolted against the monarchy because Marie Antoinette said "let them eat cake" which is basically Antoinette-ish for "let them turn towards the dark side and worship devilry". Had she said "let them eat pie", there would have been no revolution and Napoleon would have invented baseball.

So... where do the brownies fit in to all of this?
#13
munners
Aug 10, 2009 3:11:19
I would also ask why you want them to change? If you have a very good reason you can always just ask them.

Which are you evil or unaligned? If you unaligned you should still be able to work with the party. If you are evil and the are at least good then it opens a different can of worms.

The answer to the second question is Thunderspire Labyrinth.

thank you, is there a book available for this?
on this website and free?
#14
FrozenTime
Aug 10, 2009 11:41:39
thank you, is there a book available for this?
on this website and free?

The module is out, but you may want to check your local store to see if they have it in stock.

I do not believe WOTC has made this one available like KOTS for download.
#15
munners
Aug 11, 2009 4:07:31 ahk yeah were are going to buy it on amazon, thanks
#16
lestanley1979
Aug 11, 2009 7:27:23 Can you still do Charm and Geas and suchlike in 4e?

Otherwise, leave them to play how they want to play. Our DM - 3.5e - makes us play Good characters and reminds us about alignment on this axis at least. He doesn't worry about Lawful vs Chaotic but does about Good vs Evil and we are all supposed to be one of the Good alignments.

I don't altogether mind this as it is more what the game is about for me.
#17
shard_of_suzail
Aug 11, 2009 8:01:33 Well, my friend, you need to get some roleplay backing.

By this I mean that you need to tell us who your god is and your reasons for being evil aligned.

Evil isnt a simple choice, it needs justification. You dont just wake up one day and start acting evil, you need some motivation and you cant persuade others to join your cause unless you know what that cause is. You may even find that you don't believe in the cause yourself and thats no good. Evil requires dedication and direction. Truly evil characters are motivated, certain and always striving towards their goals.

So, tell us why you are aligned that way and we can advise you properly. Also, forget about tricking them into alignment change, you want them to want to be evil and to side with you. The more we know about your choices, the more we can put a positive spin upon them and sell them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 munners Aug 09, 2009 8:41:13	Hey my character is evil/unaligned in 4e and i was wondering a good way to get the rest of my team (2 lawfully good, 2 good) to change to evil/unaligned? we are doing the keep of shadowfell adventure. also what is the next adventure (level 4 - 8 i believe) called?
#2 gelf Aug 09, 2009 8:56:36	I suggest you become a vampire and then dominate all of them.
#3 kuonji Aug 09, 2009 9:32:03	Why? You seem to be the odd person out with the evil alignment in a party of good. Easiest way: Ask the other players to change their alignments to evil.
#4 FrozenTime Aug 09, 2009 10:43:58	Hey my character is evil/unaligned in 4e and i was wondering a good way to get the rest of my team (2 lawfully good, 2 good) to change to evil/unaligned? we are doing the keep of shadowfell adventure. also what is the next adventure (level 4 - 8 i believe) called? I would also ask why you want them to change? If you have a very good reason you can always just ask them. Which are you evil or unaligned? If you unaligned you should still be able to work with the party. If you are evil and the are at least good then it opens a different can of worms. The answer to the second question is Thunderspire Labyrinth.
#5 doomsought Aug 09, 2009 12:43:22	alignment means nothing. I keep saying this over and over. Just put 'unaligned' and choose a personality for your character. In fact, rip the pages on alignment out of your players handbook. They only cause needless arguments. I'm serious about ripping them out of your book. Alignment had some purpose in 3ed , with a few spells that acted on it, but even then it should of been in the DM's manual, not PH.
#6 LordManshoon Aug 09, 2009 12:49:14	What's the point? If it's because you feel like the odd man out, then I hate to say it, but it's you who should change your alignment for them. Unless this is a plot on your behalf to seduce your allies to the dark side. And I doubt very much that trickery or temptation will work, so asking them is the best way.
#7 CCS Aug 09, 2009 13:34:23	It's a long term project. Or it can be. But, all you really need to do is get them to consistantly commit evil acts with you. The easiest way is to start small. Work on getting them to accept what you do/how you do it. You're their teammate, they should support you right?? But this complaciency towards evil is just as bad as evil itself. And once complaciency sets in it's another baby step into minor participation.... Eventually their no better alignment-wise than you are. Of course, if you're playing in an edition that includes it, there's always the good ol Helm of Alignment Change.
#8 salla Aug 09, 2009 14:20:15	Alignment had some purpose in 3ed , with a few spells that acted on it, A *FEW?!* Anyway, Doomsought is right about alignment not mattering. I don't use it in my games, and nobody's noticed or cared. Just play your character, and if the party kicks your butt for doing evil deeds, make one that's not evil next time.
#9 anidmaro Aug 09, 2009 15:42:15	Why would you want to change their alignments? If it's because you don't want to be the odd man out... well tough luck you're the one who chose to be evil. If it's because of a RP reason however (you want to tempt them to the "dark side", or maybe your character is brutally pragmatic)... then it'll take a while but with adequate persuasion you might be able to do it. Present your heinous acts as something more wholesome. Did you brutally murder a 'good guy'? What if he wasn't a 'good guy' after all? Maybe he was a 'bad guy'? Look, he was a mercenary hired to kill us... here's the written contract he was carrying. What? No I didn't write that, look the penmanship is totally different (you did take care to write in a distinctly different way when you forged that paper, right?). I know, it's a brutal harsh thing, but this is the world we live in. After all, you guys don't think twice on slaying our other enemies, why is this one any different?
#10 johnnii Aug 09, 2009 23:54:47	Don't make them evil/unaligned. Ask them to write "Cake" on their sheets in the alignment bar, and you yourself write "Pie" on your own. Then you try your best to make their alignment "Pie". /Silly
#11 johnnyslick Aug 10, 2009 1:23:27	Clearly the above poster is not fully awake. We were talking about good vs. evil here. Pie vs. cake is far more important, but if you really wanted to start a flame war... pie is delicious and versatile and therefore lawful good, which makes cake chaotic evil. The French basically revolted against the monarchy because Marie Antoinette said "let them eat cake" which is basically Antoinette-ish for "let them turn towards the dark side and worship devilry". Had she said "let them eat pie", there would have been no revolution and Napoleon would have invented baseball.
#12 Lone_Wolf_02 Aug 10, 2009 2:02:57	Clearly the above poster is not fully awake. We were talking about good vs. evil here. Pie vs. cake is far more important, but if you really wanted to start a flame war... pie is delicious and versatile and therefore lawful good, which makes cake chaotic evil. The French basically revolted against the monarchy because Marie Antoinette said "let them eat cake" which is basically Antoinette-ish for "let them turn towards the dark side and worship devilry". Had she said "let them eat pie", there would have been no revolution and Napoleon would have invented baseball. So... where do the brownies fit in to all of this?
#13 munners Aug 10, 2009 3:11:19	I would also ask why you want them to change? If you have a very good reason you can always just ask them. Which are you evil or unaligned? If you unaligned you should still be able to work with the party. If you are evil and the are at least good then it opens a different can of worms. The answer to the second question is Thunderspire Labyrinth. thank you, is there a book available for this? on this website and free?
#14 FrozenTime Aug 10, 2009 11:41:39	thank you, is there a book available for this? on this website and free? The module is out, but you may want to check your local store to see if they have it in stock. I do not believe WOTC has made this one available like KOTS for download.
#15 munners Aug 11, 2009 4:07:31	ahk yeah were are going to buy it on amazon, thanks
#16 lestanley1979 Aug 11, 2009 7:27:23	Can you still do Charm and Geas and suchlike in 4e? Otherwise, leave them to play how they want to play. Our DM - 3.5e - makes us play Good characters and reminds us about alignment on this axis at least. He doesn't worry about Lawful vs Chaotic but does about Good vs Evil and we are all supposed to be one of the Good alignments. I don't altogether mind this as it is more what the game is about for me.
#17 shard_of_suzail Aug 11, 2009 8:01:33	Well, my friend, you need to get some roleplay backing. By this I mean that you need to tell us who your god is and your reasons for being evil aligned. Evil isnt a simple choice, it needs justification. You dont just wake up one day and start acting evil, you need some motivation and you cant persuade others to join your cause unless you know what that cause is. You may even find that you don't believe in the cause yourself and thats no good. Evil requires dedication and direction. Truly evil characters are motivated, certain and always striving towards their goals. So, tell us why you are aligned that way and we can advise you properly. Also, forget about tricking them into alignment change, you want them to want to be evil and to side with you. The more we know about your choices, the more we can put a positive spin upon them and sell them.