Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ZobontheFocused Mar 22, 2013 15:10:51	So a player in our party has been trying to be more of a "Defensive Fighter" type of character (Since we already have a damage based fighter AND a Barbarian). So I was wondering what kinds of good defensive feats could he take for either absorbing damage or basically just being the tank? We are playing 3.5 with base races and base classes. Our party consists of: Two fighters (One defensive one damage dealing) A ranged rogue, A Barbarian and a ranged Bard I'm pretty sure he already has Combat Expertise but otherwise he doesn't have much else for defensive fighting.
#2 DaBeerds Mar 22, 2013 15:58:50	The problem is that there are no feats for "tanking" (drawing enemies to one character so that he takes damage while the rest of the party kills that enemy). The only idea that springs to mind is to change the "tank" fighter to a Knight from PHB2.  The Knight gets an ability called Knight's Challenge where he basically taunts an enemy to focus on him rather than the knight's allies.  In early levels it is a single target, but it eventually becomes an AOE effect.  The condition is that the Knight has a code of conduct - in most basic terms he has to fight fair (cannot attack defenseless targets), but he does not have to enforce that code on the rest of the party (i.e. if an enemy the knight is facing is tripped and falls prone, the Knight cannot attack it, but the damage dealing fighter can without repercussion).  The specifics can be found in the Player's handbook II pages 24-30.
#3 Krusk Mar 22, 2013 16:53:10	Tell him to buy a spiked chain and improved trip.  Thats generally the only "Defensive Fighter" option worth anything in 3.5 and it is core.
#4 warghoul Mar 22, 2013 17:51:01	Tell him to buy a spiked chain and improved trip.  Thats generally the only "Defensive Fighter" option worth anything in 3.5 and it is core.     +1. With the reach of the chain the feat Stand Still comes in handy also.
#5 mastercliff Mar 23, 2013 0:38:21	There are the feats that increase your saves. Improved Trip. Stunning Fist. Combat Expertise. Improved Disarm. Diehard. Dodge. Improved Grapple. Improved Sunder. Improved Shield Bash.
#6 Krusk Mar 23, 2013 8:49:43	Improved Trip. Stunning Fist. Combat Expertise. Improved Disarm. Diehard. Dodge. Improved Grapple. Improved Sunder. Improved Shield Bash. The feats with lines are terrible. The feats without lines that aren't "Improved Trip" are ok if you decide you want to focus on them instead of improved trip, but aren't as good as improved trip.
#7 alsebra Mar 23, 2013 10:30:16	I don't know about Imp Grapple, Krusk.  You're only taking on one enemy that way, and all of your attention is on that opponent (unless you can speed-pin and tie it up)...that's kinda at cross-purposes of a defensive heavy.
#8 Krusk Mar 24, 2013 12:34:10	I don't know about Imp Grapple, Krusk.  You're only taking on one enemy that way, and all of your attention is on that opponent (unless you can speed-pin and tie it up)...that's kinda at cross-purposes of a defensive heavy. Yeah, I agree with that sentiment. Its not great, but if someone decideds to focus on it they may not totally suck.
#9 RogerWilco Apr 12, 2013 3:49:49	Tell him to buy a spiked chain and improved trip.  Thats generally the only "Defensive Fighter" option worth anything in 3.5 and it is core.  Yeah, Defensive Fighter doesn't really work in 3.5 very well. Even this advice with the Spiked Chain is basically aimed at improving your offence by increasing the area you threaten. Tripping is nice because it knocks enemies prone. I agree that the Knight is the only class I know in 3.5 that has Tanking abilities that work. There are other things like the Dwarven Defender, but those are more of the kind "lol, I'll just ignore you until your party is dead". Defences are only good if you can force the enemy to attack you instead of a weaker party member. In general offence is the best defence in 3.5. You don't need defence or healing when the enemy is dead.
#10 alsebra Apr 12, 2013 16:26:01	Yeah, I agree with that sentiment. Its not great, but if someone decideds to focus on it they may not totally suck.  It'd take some serious optimising to make grappling anything more than crap, honestly.  It'd take some size changing, Strength increasing, and possibly some options for fighting in the grapple (the only thing that comes to mind is Reaping Mauler...and that's a dead PrC).
#11 Krusk Apr 13, 2013 9:39:31	You can make unarmed strikes, so you can take superior unarmed strikes + High str might do some damage. You also probably are going to want to beg for the casters to buff you pretty high.
#12 trashoon May 03, 2013 0:28:45	quick draw toughness run skill focous alertnes improved initiative  improved unarmed strike+deflect arrows point blank shot+precise shot+rapid shot
#13 DaBeerds May 03, 2013 12:19:28	@Trahsoon, While all of those feats do have defensive qualities and uses, the problem is that none of them aid a character in being a "tank" - one that encourages/forces enemies to attack him while the rest of the party dispatches those enemies.  All they do is give the one character a better chance engaging targets more quickly and surviving a combat encounter; they do nothing to help the rest of the party avoid taking damage - the enemies are under no compulsion to engage the character with all the fast acting and/or improved survivability feats.
#14 alsebra May 04, 2013 15:50:10	In a few books, the Goad feat makes an appearance.  If I recall, it all but forces something to engage you by reducing its attacking capabilities if it doesn't attack you.
#15 RogerWilco May 08, 2013 15:02:36	@Trahsoon, While all of those feats do have defensive qualities and uses, the problem is that none of them aid a character in being a "tank" - one that encourages/forces enemies to attack him while the rest of the party dispatches those enemies.  All they do is give the one character a better chance engaging targets more quickly and surviving a combat encounter; they do nothing to help the rest of the party avoid taking damage - the enemies are under no compulsion to engage the character with all the fast acting and/or improved survivability feats. I think in general this is very hard to achieve in 3.5E. The system doesn't really support it. The main way to focus attention on yourself is through being the biggest threat and damage dealer. If you want to draw enemy fire, that's the best option you have in 3.5 I think. If you start doing 300+ damage per round, then the enemy will find it hard to ignore you.
#16 alsebra May 09, 2013 16:36:38	Chances are, though, that almost anything that can do that much damage can be tied down quite handily (mind-affecting on a Fighter-type, engaging a caster in melee, etc) without resorting to facing the threat.