Good ToB Mage Slayer build - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Good ToB Mage Slayer build

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ziggzagg
May 19, 2008 15:07:01 Hello! I am looking to build a Mage Slayer type character. I am intending on using the Mage Slayer feat tree (Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Protection and Pierce Magical Concealment), as well as multiclassing enough to get into the Master of the Nine class, hopefully at a decent level. Has anybody made a build that could implement all this, or come up with one. All I have figured up is take Warblade straight through level 9, then take 3 levels of Swordsage. By level 12, I can have all the feats required for the Master of the Nine and the Mage Slayer tree. Can anyone think of a build that might work better?
#2
dawnbringer
May 19, 2008 15:47:54 If you want to get into master of the nine quicker, it's probably best to be a fighter (I haven't seen master of the nine, but fighters can get all the feats warblades can). If it's a 10 level prestige class, you're better off going at least some fighter if not all, to get in way quicker.
#3
ziggzagg
May 19, 2008 16:18:25 It is a 5 level prestige class that needs maneuvers known from 6 different disciplines and 10 ranks in 4 discipline based skills and needs 5 other feats. I was thinking of more multiclassing, but then I risk multiclass penalties
#4
crimsondeath
May 19, 2008 17:24:09 Are you using the unarmed variant Swordsage? That'll get you Improved Unarmed Strike for free.

In case it matters, a single-classed Swordsage can meet the maneuver prerequisites for Master of Nine without spending any feats on Martial Study.

Anyway, the fastest I could get all of it without using Flaws was a Human Unarmed Swordsage 1/Fighter 2/Warblade 5. Fortunately, almost all of the feats you want are Fighter bonus feats, and several are Warblade bonus feats. And since this is a Human, you don't take multiclassing XP penalties-- Warblade is your favored class, Fighter and Swordsage are within one level of each other, and Master of Nine, being a prestiege class, won't count.

You might want to consider Expeditious Dodge (from Races of the Wild) instead of the normal Dodge feat; it's treated as Dodge for the purpose of meeting prerequisites. Which you'd want to use depends on how much you expect to move-- a White Raven charger would be better served by Expeditious Dodge, but a Stone Dragon tank would do better with Dodge.
#5
logicninja
May 19, 2008 18:06:40 Crusader.

Crusader has the best maneuver recovery, has the Thicket of Blades stance (important to keep mages from Tumbling away; even 1 cross-class rank will give'em a 50% chance), and makes for an amazing choice to enter Master of Nine (Crusader X/Unarmed Swordsage 2).
Because, you see, every time a prestige class adds to a crusader's Maneuvers Readied, they also add to the Maneuvers Granted. A Crusader 13/U. Swordsage 2/Mo9 5 who takes Extra Granted Maneuver winds up with 9 out of 11 maneuvers readied. That's a whole crapton of powerful options.

Master of Nine also gives you better benefits the more you delay it (higher-level maneuvers).

I'd ditch Blind-Fight/Pierce Magical Concealment; you're going to need Combat Reflexes and either Improved Trip or Stand Still. Use a Scout's Headband (you can even carry a spare, they're 3,400 gp) to get True Seeing or See Invis when you need to.
#6
crimsondeath
May 19, 2008 18:17:24 He can't ditch Blind-Fight; it's a prerequisite for Master of Nine. And if you have Mage Slayer and Blind-Fight anyway, there's no reason not to get Pierce Magical Concealment.
#7
ziggzagg
May 19, 2008 18:36:19 You know, I never thought of that, but that does sound really good. I never played a Crusader. Probably why it didn't come to mind to use it. But I will go back and review my options for that one. Thanks for the insight!
#8
logicninja
May 19, 2008 19:01:41
He can't ditch Blind-Fight; it's a prerequisite for Master of Nine. And if you have Mage Slayer and Blind-Fight anyway, there's no reason not to get Pierce Magical Concealment.

Ah, right, right. My bad.

You know, I never thought of that, but that does sound really good. I never played a Crusader. Probably why it didn't come to mind to use it. But I will go back and review my options for that one. Thanks for the insight!

Crusaders are freaking awesome. The best part is that you don't have to waste actions on maneuver recovery.

here is a Crusader/Master of Nine build I posted. That should help with maneuver selection, although you'll have to adjust the feats (in order to get the mage-slayer stuff). Make sure you have a source of Enlarge (like potions) for getting big reach + Thicket of Blades + Stand Still.

Swordsage 1/Warblade 1 is also a better choice than Swordsage 2, I've figured out since then.
#9
ziggzagg
May 19, 2008 19:22:35 The more I look at it, the more I am entertaining the Crusdaer idea. But what does Swordsage 1/Warblade 1 get you better than Swordsage 2, and how does it fit into the build with everything?
#10
logicninja
May 19, 2008 19:29:35 Warblade 1 gets you 3 maneuvers and a stance, which you can use for prerequisites. For example, you pick up Wall of Blades (to deal with ray attacks), Iron heart Surge (awesome on its own), Punishing Stance (just to qualify for more Iron Heart stuff), and a Tiger Claw or Diamond Mind maneuver (depending on what you want to take later--I'd go with Diamond Mind). Then, when you enter Mo9, you can start taking higher-level Iron Heart and Diamond Mind stuff than you could otherwise.
#11
ziggzagg
May 19, 2008 19:41:44 Alright. I thought that's what you were getting at. Just wanted to make sure I was on the correct brain wave LoL
#12
demonfey02
May 21, 2008 14:57:31 Playing with a crusader, I have to say Divine Surge and Revitalizing Strike are incredibly useful if you can connect. Also, the stance that lets them give others more actions if they're within 20 feet has been of great benefit.
#13
runestar
May 21, 2008 22:13:26 I would actually hold off taking the 1st lv of swordsage until 9th+ lv, however attractive those extra skill points may seem. While you get the benefit of 6+int mod)*4 points at 1st lv, you have to waste a good part of your 6 starting maneuvers taking filler stuff you know you won't use much.

IMO, it is better to take it later, where you can quickly leapfrog all the way up to the higher lv maneuvers. Your build will not be primarily skill-based anyways, and so the loss of skill points is really no big deal.

For example, I could go warblade8/swordsage1, which lets me choose up to 3rd lv swordsage maneuvers, which in turn allows me to select more useful stuff like cloak of deception, zephyr dance, shadow blink and fire riposte.

Another combo is to go crusader8, then add 1 lv of warblade for moment of precise mind, wall of blades, iron heart surge and white raven tactics (if you have not yet taken it as a crusader).

I am not sure if you will be able to squeeze in the mage slayer feat tree and the prereqs of the Mo9 prc together though.
#14
ziggzagg
May 23, 2008 15:52:10 I was able to fit in the mage slayer feats with the Mo9 Prereqs by, I believe, 15th level. That let's me take Master of Nine my last 5 levels, which lets me net lots and lots of high level goodies :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ziggzagg May 19, 2008 15:07:01	Hello! I am looking to build a Mage Slayer type character. I am intending on using the Mage Slayer feat tree (Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Protection and Pierce Magical Concealment), as well as multiclassing enough to get into the Master of the Nine class, hopefully at a decent level. Has anybody made a build that could implement all this, or come up with one. All I have figured up is take Warblade straight through level 9, then take 3 levels of Swordsage. By level 12, I can have all the feats required for the Master of the Nine and the Mage Slayer tree. Can anyone think of a build that might work better?
#2 dawnbringer May 19, 2008 15:47:54	If you want to get into master of the nine quicker, it's probably best to be a fighter (I haven't seen master of the nine, but fighters can get all the feats warblades can). If it's a 10 level prestige class, you're better off going at least some fighter if not all, to get in way quicker.
#3 ziggzagg May 19, 2008 16:18:25	It is a 5 level prestige class that needs maneuvers known from 6 different disciplines and 10 ranks in 4 discipline based skills and needs 5 other feats. I was thinking of more multiclassing, but then I risk multiclass penalties
#4 crimsondeath May 19, 2008 17:24:09	Are you using the unarmed variant Swordsage? That'll get you Improved Unarmed Strike for free. In case it matters, a single-classed Swordsage can meet the maneuver prerequisites for Master of Nine without spending any feats on Martial Study. Anyway, the fastest I could get all of it without using Flaws was a Human Unarmed Swordsage 1/Fighter 2/Warblade 5. Fortunately, almost all of the feats you want are Fighter bonus feats, and several are Warblade bonus feats. And since this is a Human, you don't take multiclassing XP penalties-- Warblade is your favored class, Fighter and Swordsage are within one level of each other, and Master of Nine, being a prestiege class, won't count. You might want to consider Expeditious Dodge (from Races of the Wild) instead of the normal Dodge feat; it's treated as Dodge for the purpose of meeting prerequisites. Which you'd want to use depends on how much you expect to move-- a White Raven charger would be better served by Expeditious Dodge, but a Stone Dragon tank would do better with Dodge.
#5 logicninja May 19, 2008 18:06:40	Crusader. Crusader has the best maneuver recovery, has the Thicket of Blades stance (important to keep mages from Tumbling away; even 1 cross-class rank will give'em a 50% chance), and makes for an amazing choice to enter Master of Nine (Crusader X/Unarmed Swordsage 2). Because, you see, every time a prestige class adds to a crusader's Maneuvers Readied, they also add to the Maneuvers Granted. A Crusader 13/U. Swordsage 2/Mo9 5 who takes Extra Granted Maneuver winds up with 9 out of 11 maneuvers readied. That's a whole crapton of powerful options. Master of Nine also gives you better benefits the more you delay it (higher-level maneuvers). I'd ditch Blind-Fight/Pierce Magical Concealment; you're going to need Combat Reflexes and either Improved Trip or Stand Still. Use a Scout's Headband (you can even carry a spare, they're 3,400 gp) to get True Seeing or See Invis when you need to.
#6 crimsondeath May 19, 2008 18:17:24	He can't ditch Blind-Fight; it's a prerequisite for Master of Nine. And if you have Mage Slayer and Blind-Fight anyway, there's no reason not to get Pierce Magical Concealment.
#7 ziggzagg May 19, 2008 18:36:19	You know, I never thought of that, but that does sound really good. I never played a Crusader. Probably why it didn't come to mind to use it. But I will go back and review my options for that one. Thanks for the insight!
#8 logicninja May 19, 2008 19:01:41	He can't ditch Blind-Fight; it's a prerequisite for Master of Nine. And if you have Mage Slayer and Blind-Fight anyway, there's no reason not to get Pierce Magical Concealment. Ah, right, right. My bad. You know, I never thought of that, but that does sound really good. I never played a Crusader. Probably why it didn't come to mind to use it. But I will go back and review my options for that one. Thanks for the insight! Crusaders are freaking awesome. The best part is that you don't have to waste actions on maneuver recovery. here is a Crusader/Master of Nine build I posted. That should help with maneuver selection, although you'll have to adjust the feats (in order to get the mage-slayer stuff). Make sure you have a source of Enlarge (like potions) for getting big reach + Thicket of Blades + Stand Still. Swordsage 1/Warblade 1 is also a better choice than Swordsage 2, I've figured out since then.
#9 ziggzagg May 19, 2008 19:22:35	The more I look at it, the more I am entertaining the Crusdaer idea. But what does Swordsage 1/Warblade 1 get you better than Swordsage 2, and how does it fit into the build with everything?
#10 logicninja May 19, 2008 19:29:35	Warblade 1 gets you 3 maneuvers and a stance, which you can use for prerequisites. For example, you pick up Wall of Blades (to deal with ray attacks), Iron heart Surge (awesome on its own), Punishing Stance (just to qualify for more Iron Heart stuff), and a Tiger Claw or Diamond Mind maneuver (depending on what you want to take later--I'd go with Diamond Mind). Then, when you enter Mo9, you can start taking higher-level Iron Heart and Diamond Mind stuff than you could otherwise.
#11 ziggzagg May 19, 2008 19:41:44	Alright. I thought that's what you were getting at. Just wanted to make sure I was on the correct brain wave LoL
#12 demonfey02 May 21, 2008 14:57:31	Playing with a crusader, I have to say Divine Surge and Revitalizing Strike are incredibly useful if you can connect. Also, the stance that lets them give others more actions if they're within 20 feet has been of great benefit.
#13 runestar May 21, 2008 22:13:26	I would actually hold off taking the 1st lv of swordsage until 9th+ lv, however attractive those extra skill points may seem. While you get the benefit of 6+int mod)*4 points at 1st lv, you have to waste a good part of your 6 starting maneuvers taking filler stuff you know you won't use much. IMO, it is better to take it later, where you can quickly leapfrog all the way up to the higher lv maneuvers. Your build will not be primarily skill-based anyways, and so the loss of skill points is really no big deal. For example, I could go warblade8/swordsage1, which lets me choose up to 3rd lv swordsage maneuvers, which in turn allows me to select more useful stuff like cloak of deception, zephyr dance, shadow blink and fire riposte. Another combo is to go crusader8, then add 1 lv of warblade for moment of precise mind, wall of blades, iron heart surge and white raven tactics (if you have not yet taken it as a crusader). I am not sure if you will be able to squeeze in the mage slayer feat tree and the prereqs of the Mo9 prc together though.
#14 ziggzagg May 23, 2008 15:52:10	I was able to fit in the mage slayer feats with the Mo9 Prereqs by, I believe, 15th level. That let's me take Master of Nine my last 5 levels, which lets me net lots and lots of high level goodies :D