So just as a general sort of question, who out there has played as a opposite gender and how did it go? I'm not just refering to the edition I'm playing 3.5, but any edition. One guy in the group has a backup female character, but his character hasn't died yet. I feel the DM keeps screwing around, but that's a totally different subject.
Any male here play something like a seductive rouge or a cold-hearted Paladin of justice who keeps her chastity? Any female play a rough, powerful, Conan type barbarian or a handsome, sweet talking gentleman fighter? I'd like to learn about if people have done that or something similar and how well the game went?
The only time my gender was relevant was for a throaway gag wherein my telepath psion used suggestion on a monster and said "You wouldn't hit a girl, would you?"
I've played female characters before, but I really just choose gender based on which one feels more badass and then play my usual zany self.
The only time my gender was relevant was for a throaway gag wherein my telepath psion used suggestion on a monster and said "You wouldn't hit a girl, would you?"
lol wow awesome.
So everyone was okey with it? I fear about there being some kind of awkwardness in the air if I played a female character, but it is roleplaying afterall.
The only awkwardness comes when an NPC or another PC played by a male character wants to hit on you. :p
from the female leather clad thief I played as a teenager to the, to the female euthanatos mage I played a few years ago with agroup of 30 something friends who upon discovering we needed to enter the sewers of london entered an adult store in soho and purchased thigh high latex boots to keep her legs dry.
despite my best efforts i cannot escape the fact that I am a male with male prejudices. that bothers me far more than the embarrasment of other players.
I think a lot of guys playing female characters (and vice versa) comes down to one of two reasons: wanting to have a serious mental experiment to see if you understand the psychology of the opposite gender, or wanting your character to exemplify your desires... which the character can do more readily if their pysical description matches that of a person you might try to pick up at a bar.
I tried it once. I thought it would be a fun change of pace. It didn't work out too well, but that probably had something to do with the fact that we were all horny teenagers and sex came up a lot, especially since our only steady female player usually played her characters as complete sluts.
I probably won't attempt it again, even with a more mature group. I've come to the conclusion that female psychology is far beyond my understanding, so any attempts to adequately roleplay a woman would utterly fail.
EDIT: I have played female characters on Guild Wars, but there isn't exactly a lot of RP going on there, and I just happened to think the female necro was cool looking. Even that ended up getting weird because guys kept hitting on me! Its a freakin game people, not a bar or club. Go out and socialize once in a while.
Any male here play something like a seductive rouge or a cold-hearted Paladin of justice who keeps her chastity? Any female play a rough, powerful, Conan type barbarian or a handsome, sweet talking gentleman fighter? I'd like to learn about if people have done that or something similar and how well the game went?
I can't help but notice, here, that your female examples are both defined by their sexuality, and your male examples are not.
So just as a general sort of question, who out there has played as a opposite gender and how did it go? I'm not just refering to the edition I'm playing 3.5, but any edition. One guy in the group has a backup female character, but his character hasn't died yet. I feel the DM keeps screwing around, but that's a totally different subject.
I generally go with whatever gender is right for the feel of the character. It's never been a problem for me, but it's also one of those deals where everyone's mileage varies.
I personally wanted to know because at one point I was tempted to roleplay a different sex, however I felt being in front of the group of guys in real life would probably make things harder to roleplay and take my character seriously (not like they ever take my characters seriously anyway ¬_¬)
Along with your last paragraph, this one makes me think you're one short step short of where you need to be to really roleplay a female character.
The thing is, women aren't honestly that different from men. The saying goes that feminism is the revolutionary concept that women are actually people, and it's entirely true. If you go into roleplaying a female PC with the idea that it's somehow fundamentally different from playing a male PC, it's going to be weird for you and your friends, because it'll feel false--and because it reveals more about your attitudes toward sex and gender than anyone at the table is comfortable with. The step you need to take is to start constructing a character based on what the PC's life was like, what he or she wants, and how you want to go about getting it.
I'll actually draw an analogy a lot of people around here will recognize: most inexperienced roleplayers go through a phase where they want to play an evil PC, and so they put together a rogue who steals indiscriminately, vandalizes or destroys what he can't steal, and murders anyone who happens to be around and relatively unarmed. That pattern of behavior, of course, isn't really evil--it's gobsmackingly stupid, and it's not even interesting.
For RPG gamers (of both genders, in my experience), it's tempting to approach the construct of gender the same way they approach the construct of morality: take the brakes off, and create a nearly unrecognizable caricature. Instead of Stupid Evil characters, though, you get female PCs with a Jessica Rabbit figure and the social restraint of a college student at Mardi Gras.
The alternative, of course, is pretty simple: de-couple gender from sexuality, and create a PC who's female but not defined by her sexuality (just like an evil character who's defined by his goal of overthrowing the nobility by any means necessary, rather than by how AEWSUM!! it is to set fire to an orphanage). As I said above, decide who your character is and what she wants, and then decide how that influences the rest of her worldview--and don't be afraid to let her be a three-dimensional character, rather than a cartoon caricature.
Character Background:
Born as an elf.
Likes to sing and dance when she can.
Uses a poison hand crossbow, prefers ranged attacks.
Was captured 12 years ago in an attempt to get to her
father. Once her father showed up to rescue her, the captors
gained valuable information from him by torturing her and
testing an untested vial of magical rabbit oil on her.
Once the captives got the information they wanted they killed her
father in front of her and were about to do the same to her when it
happend. Her feet began to change first, sprouting white fur.
Stuck in amazement by her changing form and not expecting her new form
to allow her to be so quick like a bunny she escaped, but she has never
forgotten their faces.
These traits could just as easily belong to a girl. Having a temper, falling in love, or being brave aren't anything inherent to only one side of the equation.
How does the person who plays the rogue feel about this? She's fine with it (yes, we're both girls, most of my group is girls at this point), and we both get a laugh at Rizzar and Sanida (her character)'s ineptitude and ridiculous situation.
Another character I play has no gender. It's a Marvel Universe game, and I just couldn't decide what gender to play. So Max (as it can be short for Maxwell or Maxine) is a mute character who looks either like an effeminate boy, or a masculine girl, depending on who you ask. Think Vaarsuvius from Order of the Stick.
And it's a blast. Playing a non-gendered character is also like playing a gendered character, as long as you play a personality, a CHARACTER, rather than a gender..
Don't worry about what other people think, if you want to play a girl, then do so.
Just my two coppers.
how AEWSUM!! it is to set fire to an orphanage
Hey, that orphanage attacked me!
I'm actually going to address your post from the bottom up.Any male here play something like a seductive rouge or a cold-hearted Paladin of justice who keeps her chastity? Any female play a rough, powerful, Conan type barbarian or a handsome, sweet talking gentleman fighter? I'd like to learn about if people have done that or something similar and how well the game went?
I can't help but notice, here, that your female examples are both defined by their sexuality, and your male examples are not.
I think you are wrong, a handsome, sweet talking gentleman or a seductive rouge are both defined by sexuality and there can easily be some sexual implications on playing a guy that always runs around half naked.
Well, I'm a girl. My first D&D character was a male Dragonborn Paladin. of Kord. He's still my favorite character ever. I honestly think that the biggest thing is to think of them less by their genitalia, and more by their mind. Rizzar is a caring, if slightly... um... childish, man, and has a deep depth of emotion when his temper isn't getting the better of him. He's valiant and noble, and absolutely refuses to let others test to see if traps have been turned off or not, among other things. He's also hopelessly in love with the Halfling Rogue in the party, but too shy to say anything to her about it. The rogue, btw, doesn't at this point feel anything particularly romantic about Rizzar.
These traits could just as easily belong to a girl. Having a temper, falling in love, or being brave aren't anything inherent to only one side of the equation.
How does the person who plays the rogue feel about this? She's fine with it (yes, we're both girls, most of my group is girls at this point), and we both get a laugh at Rizzar and Sanida (her character)'s ineptitude and ridiculous situation.
Another character I play has no gender. It's a Marvel Universe game, and I just couldn't decide what gender to play. So Max (as it can be short for Maxwell or Maxine) is a mute character who looks either like an effeminate boy, or a masculine girl, depending on who you ask. Think Vaarsuvius from Order of the Stick.
And it's a blast. Playing a non-gendered character is also like playing a gendered character, as long as you play a personality, a CHARACTER, rather than a gender..
Don't worry about what other people think, if you want to play a girl, then do so.
Just my two coppers.
wow, sounds awesome. I admit I've played opposite genders in MMOs but I've been kind of afraid in real life since I'm sitting there and my character is often the but of jokes at times, however everyone is joked about at times too.
Interesting that you say about the character romance. I was thinking of doing something like that in this new rp group I'm joining, then again I guess it depends if he grows feelings towards her or not. I'll have to wait until January for that.
how AEWSUM!! it is to set fire to an orphanage
Hey, that orphanage attacked me!
Yeah, those orphanages are dangerous things. My family was killed by one.
Now that's ironic
I'm actually going to address your post from the bottom up.Any male here play something like a seductive rouge or a cold-hearted Paladin of justice who keeps her chastity? Any female play a rough, powerful, Conan type barbarian or a handsome, sweet talking gentleman fighter? I'd like to learn about if people have done that or something similar and how well the game went?
I can't help but notice, here, that your female examples are both defined by their sexuality, and your male examples are not.
I think you are wrong, a handsome, sweet talking gentleman or a seductive rouge are both defined by sexuality and there can easily be some sexual implications on playing a guy that always runs around half naked.
I was wondering if anyone played a type of character that was defined by it's sexuality aswell. If a guy runs around half-naked than there would have to be sexual implications, surely
I played a female enchantress in second edition. She did really well, untill she got pregnant, and married a paladin. forced retirement.
She got pregnant and then married a paladin? I havn't played 2nd edition so I'm not sure on those races, though paladins are always holy and the apitimy of good so I'm assuming it's not the paladin's.
Most players in my general gaming group have both male and female players, and it's not an issue. We did have one older male player who absolutely refused to ever play a female character. His character choices were generally narrow, almost always playing about the same few, predictable things.
I wonder if there's not a generational/edition gap on this issue, with older and older edition players more narrowly defined with their character choices than younger and newer editon players. I recall reading that there was an effort to better equalize genders with 3.0 than what had been done previously. I understand the older editions supported sterotypes that today are considered politically incorrect. Female characters can be strong and competent without being defaulted to bar wenches, prostitutes, etc.
Modern people generally have broader views of sexuality and gender roles which enable them to accept more diversity and play a wider range of characters than what may have been seen in the past. I've seen a good range amongst the folks I play with, and it's never been an issue. It supports more character choices and can be quite entertaining.
In my experience, males will never play female characters as well as females can and female characters will never play male characters as well as males can. I think this is because being a man or a woman is more than gender... it's a way of thinking based on having grown up with different influences and societal pressures. I'm not saying a particular person couldn't play a reasonable simulation of the opposite gender just that not everyone could do it and they wouldn't be able to play it as well as someone that is actually that gender.
I used to ban players playing opposite genders because the characters always ended up being caricatures of the gender based on stereotypes. Men would play women as either overly slutty or totally butch and women would play men as either ridiculously masculine or very foppish. It's been my experience that most people in real life are somewhere in-between these extreme stereotypes. And then the women would complain that "Joe" is degrading women by the way he's playing "Shelia" or "Jenny" is making fun of men by the way she's playing "Phil." Blah blah blah.
I've relaxed a bit since then and am allowing people to play opposite gender if they choose but it's only happened once since then.
She got pregnant and then married a paladin? I havn't played 2nd edition so I'm not sure on those races, though paladins are always holy and the apitimy of good so I'm assuming it's not the paladin's.
How does a character having sex have anything to do with the paladin being holy and the epitomy of good? LG = abstinent?
She got pregnant and then married a paladin? I havn't played 2nd edition so I'm not sure on those races, though paladins are always holy and the apitimy of good so I'm assuming it's not the paladin's.
How does a character having sex have anything to do with the paladin being holy and the epitomy of good? LG = abstinent?
just a sterotype. I guess it dpends how you view paladins in your game.
Personally as a play I tend to stick to males, though I do currently have a Changeling with aliases of both genders and nearly every race. It's proving a fun challenge as he's still largely the same person developing a unique persona for each one.
In a campaign-setting-crossover D&D game, there was already a PC from the one setting I knew well enough (Eberron; mostly I played in homebrews). I thought for a while and eventually decided on a rogue from Victorian London. She pretended to be a male because she was a homeless adolecent street-rat, and the disguise consisted entirely of short hair and pants. She was constantly surprised when people saw through it, as the world she had entered actually contained women who wore pants. I found it very amusing, and the other players seemed to enjoy it, too.
Do NPCs count? I keep having to play those a lot longer than originally intended due to one of my players constantly trying to create relationships with them. I try to play them as close as I can to reality, but since they're usually just meant to be scenery it's sometimes hard and I admit I slip into sexual stereotypes on occasion.
Personally as a play I tend to stick to males, though I do currently have a Changeling with aliases of both genders and nearly every race. It's proving a fun challenge as he's still largely the same person developing a unique persona for each one.
yeah I'd let you have that. I've been a DM before. Only for one session, but if players do things that you don't expect they can definantly take you offguard. It's always best to try and punish players who might try to do that sometimes if you want to be mean.
my first 4th ed character was tiefling kid who was plucked out of time nd was questing to learn a way to return 400 years to the past where he could reclaim the girl he loved. anyway before that could happen he stumbles across her in the present. turns out the BBEG had her for some unknown reason. later on when that character gets killed off and it's 10 years later i rolled my new character who was his girlfriend questing to find out what hapened to him since he disappeared on some routine trip betqeen fallcrest and some other nearby place.
since she was about 30, i played her character as a more confident matronly type. I played up her sexulity and her feminine assets too but not to the point of vulgarity.
it wasn't weird at the table at all since in my group all the other guys except for one seem to be afraid to geet too close a woman or form any bonds within the game, and the other guy ho doesn't mind getting close is just a straight-up perve and disgusts even me as a guy.
I find, though, that usually halfway through the adventure the rest of the party goes, "Wait... your character's female?", and I simply pick up the miniature I'm using, point at the chest and say,"Um, hello...Boobs? duh."
wow, sounds awesome. I admit I've played opposite genders in MMOs but I've been kind of afraid in real life since I'm sitting there and my character is often the but of jokes at times, however everyone is joked about at times too.
Interesting that you say about the character romance. I was thinking of doing something like that in this new rp group I'm joining, then again I guess it depends if he grows feelings towards her or not. I'll have to wait until January for that.
Heh, it is awesome, won't lie. I love my characters. I'm such a story-teller and an amateur author, so creating characters is something I love to do. Getting to mess with them gives me little jolts of sadistic glee.
If it would be natural (or at least something not incredibly out of place given the nature of your campaign), then let it happen. There are all kinds of reasons for characters to fall in love. Or lust. Or neither. It's all in how you interpret the motivations of your character.
Rizzar is a man of integrity and who values using his strength to protect others, mostly because he couldn't defend his best childhood friend from getting hurt. As such, he views Sanida, the Halfling rogue, as someone who not only reminds him of his friend, but who also appreciates his efforts. She's really the only one in the party to ever thank him for what he does (which is take hits for people). Sanida, being that much smaller, is someone he can protect. And her freedom is something altogether different than he's used to. As a paladin, he's expected to live by a specific code, so meeting and working with someone not bound by that code, and who openly relishes her freedom is is refreshing and fascinating.
Now... of course, none of this may have crossed his mind consciously, but he's my character, and because of the personality I've given him, he thus reacts to Sanida by falling in love with her. Your Mileage May Vary, of course, and you might not want to get so in depth as to your reasoning, but I find that such complex thought processes make, at least for my own purposes, a more believable and well-rounded character.
Not trying to lecture, just kinda how I came to have Rizzar fall in love.
However you decide to play your character, have fun with it!
By the way, I do enjoy role playing her. It's a bit of a challenge to play an opposite gender character realistically, conforming to some gender attributes while avoiding the temptation to stereotype. For the most part she doesn't do anything a male druid wouldn't do, but sometimes her femininity does come out. I haven't played her in any romantic situations, and I'm not sure I would. But then again, I've never played my male characters in romantic situations either. Come to think of it, most of our game play is action/adventure and not much romantic/comedy...
wow, sounds awesome. I admit I've played opposite genders in MMOs but I've been kind of afraid in real life since I'm sitting there and my character is often the but of jokes at times, however everyone is joked about at times too.
Interesting that you say about the character romance. I was thinking of doing something like that in this new rp group I'm joining, then again I guess it depends if he grows feelings towards her or not. I'll have to wait until January for that.
Heh, it is awesome, won't lie. I love my characters. I'm such a story-teller and an amateur author, so creating characters is something I love to do. Getting to mess with them gives me little jolts of sadistic glee.
If it would be natural (or at least something not incredibly out of place given the nature of your campaign), then let it happen. There are all kinds of reasons for characters to fall in love. Or lust. Or neither. It's all in how you interpret the motivations of your character.
Rizzar is a man of integrity and who values using his strength to protect others, mostly because he couldn't defend his best childhood friend from getting hurt. As such, he views Sanida, the Halfling rogue, as someone who not only reminds him of his friend, but who also appreciates his efforts. She's really the only one in the party to ever thank him for what he does (which is take hits for people). Sanida, being that much smaller, is someone he can protect. And her freedom is something altogether different than he's used to. As a paladin, he's expected to live by a specific code, so meeting and working with someone not bound by that code, and who openly relishes her freedom is is refreshing and fascinating.
Now... of course, none of this may have crossed his mind consciously, but he's my character, and because of the personality I've given him, he thus reacts to Sanida by falling in love with her. Your Mileage May Vary, of course, and you might not want to get so in depth as to your reasoning, but I find that such complex thought processes make, at least for my own purposes, a more believable and well-rounded character.
Not trying to lecture, just kinda how I came to have Rizzar fall in love.
However you decide to play your character, have fun with it!
Yeah I love that feel too. I'm a wannabe amature author (completed one book, but it needs work on.) and so I love to experiment with different possible races, classes, religions and ect. It can bring a interesting outcome. Since I'm playing 3.5 there's so many books already out with all kinds of extra classes and races. feats, ect that I am tempted to just print of 50 character sheets, but ofcourse I'm not quite that mad.
I'm not one to hate 4th edition. It's off subject but I will say it's fun and if DMed right probably very good as this reviewer online said.
back to the subject. for instance in my current rp sessions I'm a CN gnome cleric of Shaundakul, the god of travelers, merchants and ect. Pretty funny and matches me well since I love to say cheesy lines. One was where our wizard fireballed a vampire and I was like "You look a little 'hot under the collar' there." which made everyone laugh.
The other is one that'll be interesting. He's going to be a halfling warlock, CN and with him I actually have a very detailed and constructed story. He wishes to find his father and find out the true origins of his powers. I didn't work too hard on the cleric because in that campaign my characters have a terrible habbit of dying. Mostly because the DM doesn't let us start at a reasonable level when we re-roll compared to the two main surviving characters.
But who knows. Maybe my halfling won't maybe he will. Afterall, he hasn't met her yet so she might be a snooty type of elf or a kind and caring one. Will have to wait and see.
I play a female level 6 druid in a 3.5e campaign. She's a special case though, she's half dryad, half elf, and it only made sense for her to be female since it would have been odd to have a male dryad. I play her pretty straight up, although on occasion I do play on her gender. For example, when the party was trying to save a town from a death cult, she was much more aggressive when the endangered villagers were children, and the DM played the children as more trusting of her and less trusting of the male party members. Since she's part dryad she has been known to be flirtatious on occasion, but never with player characters. Most of the inappropriate comments come from the other players. In fact that has escalated pretty dramatically since she gained the "wild shape" ability and tends to wild shape into the same form as her male animal companion since they can then move at the same rate and through the same sorts of terrain. The rest of the players enjoy making crude comments about her "catting around" with her animal companion. But it's not a big deal.
By the way, I do enjoy role playing her. It's a bit of a challenge to play an opposite gender character realistically, conforming to some gender attributes while avoiding the temptation to stereotype. For the most part she doesn't do anything a male druid wouldn't do, but sometimes her femininity does come out. I haven't played her in any romantic situations, and I'm not sure I would. But then again, I've never played my male characters in romantic situations either. Come to think of it, most of our game play is action/adventure and not much romantic/comedy...
Half elf and Half Dryad? Isn't that a Houri? Wait...no that's a nymph and a elf. I've got Bastards and Bloodlines as a PDF which is filled with crossbreeds. Certainly a interesting mix there.
Very interesting mix of stuff you've done there and certainly sounds like a very funny group. The same thing kind of happened with our group. A girl in the group turned into a wolf and her animal companion was a male wolf. When she turned into one he said
"Oh, so you're going to start a pack now?" and I had to laugh pointing out for them to start a pack they would have to get...physical and the DM just had his face in his hands, stating that as one of the many things he wouldn't DM.
I don't play female characters and haven't. They don't occur to me because I'm not female. Often the gender is important to the character concept, so I wouldn't be able to just "flop" the gender and sit well with it. However, I do have one character concept that I'd like to play that would have to be female. My ideas are precise, and more to the point they are my ideas, built from my personality and my interests. Rarely do I find interest in roleplaying someone of the opposite gender.
Yeah, in my case the only female I've played was because of a race concept that just didn't make sense as a male, but sounded like a lot of fun to play, and she has been.
My currently active characters are:
Female elf-dryad hybrid druid, 6th level 3.5e.
Male alcoholic party animal gnome barbarian, 5th level 3.5e.
Male cigar-chewing spiked chain weilding ranger, 10th level 4e.
Male dragon-killing deadly shot ranger, 14th level 3.5e.
I really can't say that I enjoy any one of them more than any other, but I do find the female druid to be the most challenging. The gnome barbarian is an absolute hoot to play though, but he's mostly a miniature version of Conan with an inferiority complex and a bad temper. The 14th level ranger is the most deadly, he's like an F-16 Falcon dropping hellfire missiles on the enemy. His animal companion is his hippogriff mount.
I don't see what the big deal is about playing the opposite gender. The game is all about using your imagination, right?
However, I don't really know if it counts, because my characters are not what others would call epitomes of their gender. One of my last female PCs hated children for instance. One touched her (She hated getting touched) so she willingly left him to die when fleeing a dungeon. Another time, a demon demanded a baby she was holding and had previously saved, so she gave the kid up with little thought and ran away from the demon. She had only saved the kid to get a better reputation and mostly by threatening people she didn't like. Not exactly full of fuzzy-wuzzy maternal love here.
One of my male PCs actually got a kick out of his own androgynous appearance for several reasons. He didn't act particularly male or female because it would have given away his true sex and that wouldn't have been as fun.
Most of my druids, male or female, rarely spend time on their appearance and generally fairly dirty from traveling or for camouflage.
I think the last time I played a character who seemed to follow more of the gender ideals was simply a male violent psychopath who was male so I could have a military background in that campaign world. Him being male did not make him violent, it just allowed him to make a profit from his mindset.
Oh, and she happens to be a woman. Seriously, I came up with the character and then decided after the fact what the character 'felt' like. I could just as easily play her as male (Strategy ir'Vaine is fairly gender-neutral as names go), but she just happened to feel like a female when I sat back and took a look at what I'd created. If you go into it with the intention of making a sexy rogue or a butch amazon or a sultry sorceress, that's what you're going to get; that will be the essential premise of the character, and anything else will be secondary. Go into it with the intention of creating a brilliant tactician or a clever swindler or an erudite sage, and you'll get something that much more closely resembles a real person in the context of a D&D adventure.
Often, in a lot of the games I've played, it has made no real impact on the game what gender the character might be. Some people may call it a shame and point out that perhaps the player wasn't doing a "good enough job." Regardless of that, what it was - is what it was. Its all just a personal observation.
Sometimes even, the character gender turned into a joke. A little like forgetting that you have a familiar giving a +1 or +2 to spot checks.
"Don't forget, I'm a girl!" etc and all that.
That being said, I do have a mature enough group where it wouldn't be huge if I did make a female character. One of my players briefly did it, and my female player has only played male characters...most of the time we barely notice until her character mentions his name...which I can't recall off the top of my head, but it was very manly in nature. I wouldn't want to rp much of a relationship with another pc though...it happens from time to time as an npc with a fade to black scenerio, generally with the npc either rarely being seen again, or being killed.
I played Gabriella Silverburg exactly once, and never got a chance to play her again...
i then played Lucretia, her youngest sister in an LFR game, and then my group stopped playing LFR...
Then I played Ashley J. Blackfang. Quoth my DM "and of course Kevin's playing a girl again. " (Note that I'd played 10+ different D&D characters at this point, 2 males in 2e, 6 males in 3.5, 2 males in 4e, and two females in 4e. 3 of my 4e characters are siblings, the other lives in the Realms.)
My response: nope. Male Longtooth Warden. :D.
DM: But-
Me: Army of Darkness or Wild Arms 2, take your pick, and blame his parents.
(I ended up replacing him with Lucretia for that campaign, because Ash was for a one-shot session with that campaign, and I didn't join until several levels later, well after they left the town where he was a guard. And, I've actually taken over DMing on that campaign for now, to gain more experience and ot give the usual DM a chance to play.)
Most of the folks I've played with who have problems with cross-gender play are older players. (disclosure: I'm in my early 40s) Most of the younger players don't seem to have as much of an issue.
But I don't really have a large enough sample population to derive a valid theory from.
That said, sure, it's possible. It's even possible to do it well. It usually is done best when you don't play a "cross-gendered character" but instead just play a well-designed, internally-consistent, character who JUST HAPPENS to be the opposite sex from yourself.
When you very deliberately set out to play the other sex then it almost always goes badly.
Lastly, the whole homophobic machismo I often see used to argue against cross-gender RPG, looks incredibly stupid given that almost every DM plays cross-gender a fair amount. Half, or more, of my NPCs are female. I'm not. This is true of most DMs. (including the one who kills any cross-gendered character with lightning bolts from the sky, to my vast amusement)
-abs
Lastly, the whole homophobic machismo I often see used to argue against cross-gender RPG, looks incredibly stupid given that almost every DM plays cross-gender a fair amount. Half, or more, of my NPCs are female. I'm not. This is true of most DMs. (including the one who kills any cross-gendered character with lightning bolts from the sky, to my vast amusement)
-abs
Bah. Real men use Peach.
just play the character like a person, and make gender only a part of their personality, a piece of what they truly are, that is all you need to do.
I'm with whoever wondered if there's an age thing going on here.
Most of the folks I've played with who have problems with cross-gender play are older players. (disclosure: I'm in my early 40s) Most of the younger players don't seem to have as much of an issue.
But I don't really have a large enough sample population to derive a valid theory from.
That said, sure, it's possible. It's even possible to do it well. It usually is done best when you don't play a "cross-gendered character" but instead just play a well-designed, internally-consistent, character who JUST HAPPENS to be the opposite sex from yourself.
When you very deliberately set out to play the other sex then it almost always goes badly.
Lastly, the whole homophobic machismo I often see used to argue against cross-gender RPG, looks incredibly stupid given that almost every DM plays cross-gender a fair amount. Half, or more, of my NPCs are female. I'm not. This is true of most DMs. (including the one who kills any cross-gendered character with lightning bolts from the sky, to my vast amusement)
-abs
I think it's far more of a cultural thing then an age thing. I know several younger players who have issues with it ("i don't want to be seen as the oposite sex"), and i know older players that have issues with it ("It's immoral to be the oposite sex"), which i suppose is the same sentiment, except the later had more time to sit.
I play female PCs about 50% of the time, as do most of the people in my gaming group. It has simply never been an issue for us and, until I first saw discussions about it on the internet, it never even occured to me that it was an issue for anyone.
The reverse is also true for some people.
Till they saw it on the internet, they've never considered playing an oposite gender.
The reverse is also true for some people.
Till they saw it on the internet, they've never considered playing an oposite gender.
Quite posibly, but I can only speak for myself.
Comparatively, playing somebody of a different sex or gender shouldn't be all that hard.
Really, when we were in high school, my male friends were immature about it too, but my first female character was such a massive success (still the most epic, powerful, badass character that I've ever created) that it's now a non-issue, as it always should have been.
I honestly can't help but think that a group that has problems with somebody playing a character of another sex gender must just be immature and/or sexist and/or homophobic, even if they don't realize it, and that's bad. Either that or it's a problem with the actual player itself and how badly that players portrays characters of a different sex or gender (oversexualization, hyper-femininity, stereotypical, etc.).
I play female PCs about 50% of the time, as do most of the people in my gaming group. It has simply never been an issue for us and, until I first saw discussions about it on the internet, it never even occured to me that it was an issue for anyone.
Hmm, I kinda wish my group were that open. To date I'm one of only two players that plays across genders. The difference is that where I try to treat my characters as beings that might have their own ambitions of backstories, the other player (also a girl) who plays men only ever plays up the comedy, for any of her characters.
Then again, it's not that they're closed or have issues with it. They just... don't do it.
Generally speaking, if you're comfortable enough to be yourself around the gaming group, they are probably not going to flip out about a character with a different gender or sexual orientation.
Until my dm's, nowing this, reincarnated my PC -that was a genderless magical entity that was incarnated only in men until that time- into a girl.
Guess what? It was one of my best RP experiences. I had to adapt to this girl's life to stay hidden from my enemies, and it wa so fun and deep that it ended in a very interesting story.
In the end: it's hard, but if you start to feel your character inside you, everything i possible. Just, listen to it!
As for men playing women, I've almost always seen a stereotyped overly sexual character. I've only met a few men who could play a woman without making it all about sex and boobs. That goes for young players and older ones.
Also, there's the issue of remembering your character is the opposite sex. Whenever anyone in my games has played an opposite-gender character, we spend half the game reminding each other that he's a she or vice versa.
Now I'm playing a serious female genasi warlord. So she is commanding and focused, but i want her to be compassionate or caring towards the other characters. It's hard though because ones a warforged that follows her whims (not always), a githzerai revenant assasin that has no face and has to talk through telepathy and a very drunk dwarf fighter who's become strangely attatched to the party's mascot; a captured dretch wearing a T-shirt and a funny hat with no pants. So yeah, the characters themselves are a bit tough to feel compassion for, but I'm going to try to get into it.
I'm not confused about my gender at all, either. (This issue came up early on in my life!) On those rare occassions when I have played female characters, I haven't felt comfortable with the role-playing aspect. I'd just rather do the "guy thing". Indeed, people I've gamed with for awhile never seemed to know how to react when I played a female. I never thought to ask them why.
People have no problem playing creatures with totally alien thought processes, ways of life, culture, appearance, etc...but as soon as you involve breasts or a penis, everyone freaks out.
To be fair, while playing a being with a totaly different thought process, or a fictional culture, no one is likely to accuse the player of being anything similar to sexist... (I almost said no one would accuse them of playing it wrong... but then I remembered... this is the internet, everyone, everywhere, no matter what they do, is wrong)
Yes, I think you did. You sir shall receive a 
for spreading chaos. This has been a message from The Knights of Annoyance.People have no problem playing creatures with totally alien thought processes, ways of life, culture, appearance, etc...but as soon as you involve breasts or a penis, everyone freaks out.
To be fair, while playing a being with a totaly different thought process, or a fictional culture, no one is likely to accuse the player of being anything similar to sexist... (I almost said no one would accuse them of playing it wrong... but then I remembered... this is the internet, everyone, everywhere, no matter what they do, is wrong)
Seconded. It's okay to play to a stereotype as long as the person being stereotyped isn't from any real-world demographic. But when you play a character type according to what you personally know (or believe) about that type, it's easy to really offend someone.
I suppose another reason I'm more comfortable playing male characters is because, according to an Ohlone friend of mine, I "have a male spirit". We had gone to a pow-wow and I caught up with him after watching the dancing (he had been one of the dancers in fact). Through conversation it had come up that I act more like a man than a woman. According to him, your body can be of one gender but your spirit be another. He went into a lengthy discourse on gender perceptions in many tribes that is beyond the scope of this post, but it was quite eye-opening.
People have no problem playing creatures with totally alien thought processes, ways of life, culture, appearance, etc...but as soon as you involve breasts or a penis, everyone freaks out.
To be fair, while playing a being with a totaly different thought process, or a fictional culture, no one is likely to accuse the player of being anything similar to sexist... (I almost said no one would accuse them of playing it wrong... but then I remembered... this is the internet, everyone, everywhere, no matter what they do, is wrong)
Seconded. It's okay to play to a stereotype as long as the person being stereotyped isn't from any real-world demographic. But when you play a character type according to what you personally know (or believe) about that type, it's easy to really offend someone.
I suppose another reason I'm more comfortable playing male characters is because, according to an Ohlone friend of mine, I "have a male spirit". We had gone to a pow-wow and I caught up with him after watching the dancing (he had been one of the dancers in fact). Through conversation it had come up that I act more like a man than a woman. According to him, your body can be of one gender but your spirit be another. He went into a lengthy discourse on gender perceptions in many tribes that is beyond the scope of this post, but it was quite eye-opening.
The funny thing is though if there's one lesson that Internet communities should have taught people long since is how little the difference is in terms of thought ways. Could anyone seriously say they can tell which posters on this forum are male or female? I seriously doubt they would be particularly accurate. Now and then someone will say something revealing, but in your average discourse its really pretty close to impossible to tell.
Yes, I've played characters that were of the opposite gender. Who's to say how easy or hard that is? Is my portrayal of a female character less accurate than that of a male character? I don't think there are really huge differences. I suspect women typically choose different approaches to solving certain problems than men do, but there are pretty obvious reasons that can explain that which don't really involve different thought processes. Of course men will more quickly think solutions along the lines of "hit thing with big club", we're just generally physically better equipped to do that on average than most women are. Etc.
So how is it one can answer questions about RPing each gender? I dunno. I think I RP a character based on a concept of that character, of which only one aspect is gender. I do default to male characters when I don't particularly think about it but either one is fine and no harder to play than the other. Hardly different really.
I've played a cold-hearted gypsy dancer, a specialist enchanter who used her leadership feat to set up a brothel, an innocent fighter filled with child-like wonder...I've also played my share of male characters that run the gamut of personality as well. Sometimes I wonder that I'm so well socially adjusted with all these personalities in my brain. Or am I? Hmm... Anyhoo, I guess it really boils down to three things. One - do you enjoy the character. Two - does it bother the other gamers. Three - do you think you can bring a realistic personality to the character. Let me break it down a tad, as I like to ramble.
One - do you enjoy the character. Pretty self explanatory. If you don't enjoy playing the character, why bother?
Two - does it bother the other gamers. Let's be honest, almost nothing can kill a game faster than one player playing a character no one else likes or wants to be around. Perhaps the other players are immature, or perhaps they just feel uncomfortable seeing someone play cross-gender, but this is a game about cooperation and teamwork, so you do have to keep their opinions in mind. Note, I'm not passing judgement, just saying that it's a good idea not to cause strife for the sake of strife. As a caveat, I would say that if everyone else is cool with it, and there's a single person who has a problem...well, in that situation, perhaps you should find out why the problem exists, and see what can be done rather than scrapping the character idea. Man, I think this has opened a whole can of worms in my noggin...perhaps I'll expand on the thoughts in a post of my own....anyway back to the thread at hand...
Three - do you think you can bring a realistic personality to the character. This would apply to any character you play. By realistic, keep in mind I don't mean an ultra serious psychologically accurate presentation. I just mean stick to the personality you want without becoming a caricature. If your purpose is to play the character for laughs, go right ahead and go to the extreme, but if you want to be serious, or taken seriously usually understating things is the way to go.
After all that, I say...play what you enjoy the way you enjoy it. That's why you're role playing right? Don't worry about "getting it right" especially the first time you try something new. Just play the character that you envision and you'll continue enjoying yourself.
The funny thing is though if there's one lesson that Internet communities should have taught people long since is how little the difference is in terms of thought ways. Could anyone seriously say they can tell which posters on this forum are male or female? I seriously doubt they would be particularly accurate. Now and then someone will say something revealing, but in your average discourse its really pretty close to impossible to tell.
Yes, I've played characters that were of the opposite gender. Who's to say how easy or hard that is? Is my portrayal of a female character less accurate than that of a male character? I don't think there are really huge differences. I suspect women typically choose different approaches to solving certain problems than men do, but there are pretty obvious reasons that can explain that which don't really involve different thought processes. Of course men will more quickly think solutions along the lines of "hit thing with big club", we're just generally physically better equipped to do that on average than most women are. Etc.
So how is it one can answer questions about RPing each gender? I dunno. I think I RP a character based on a concept of that character, of which only one aspect is gender. I do default to male characters when I don't particularly think about it but either one is fine and no harder to play than the other. Hardly different really.
I actually agree with you. I was mostly saying that you could be PERCEIVED as being sexist when playing the opposite gender. I've played both genders myself, and have no real problem with other people doing it as long as they are playing an actual character and not a fantasy mate (though, this begs the question, If you are going to ban opposite gender play because of the possibility of fantasy mate characters, what of homosexuals... I mean, they could make fantasy mates of their own gender... is someone really going to ban them from playing their own gender in fear of making a fantasy mate character... and what of bisexuals... man they are just completely screwed by that logic :P)
Anyway, I was mostly just pointing out why I wouldn't in some games depending on the players/dm. People can be overly touchy.
I find i can't roleplay with female characters as well, because, well... i don't know exactly how a female thinks, its much easier to roleplay as a male for me.
Not everyone thinks the same. That is a stereotype.
I believe there are enough examples of differing thought-processes between the genders, whether naturally occuring or as learned behavior, to say that there is a typical male or female thought process.
That is a copout, and worse, in this situation, an excuse to not even try roleplaying. Six plus billion folks and whatnot.
And to add to my list, some people would rather play evil than another gender. Ridiculous.
Stereotypes originate from somewhere. I believe there are enough examples of differing thought-processes between the genders, whether naturally occuring or as learned behavior, to say that there is a typical male or female thought process.
I don't agree, and would instead say that universal behaviours are considered 'male' or 'female' when they play into preexisting stereotypes (Example: a woman who cries at a movie is considered typical, a man who cries at a movie is considered effeminate -- 'like a woman' -- even though the behaviour has clearly manifested in a man).
That this is my view is essentially irrelevant to the discussion, though. The point is that there are behaviours which are identified as corresponding to certain groups (making them stereotypes) and that, though they can and very frequently do occur independent of sex, gender, religion, or so forth, people will always read into (and likely be thus offended by) the confluence of two traits which are associated by stereotype.
All this sort of sensitivity does is arbitrarily limit character options. Play an asian character who talks in movies, and people shrug. Change the character flaw to 'bad driver', and people get upset. How about a lazy character on welfare? That's fine as long as he's white, otherwise you're a racist. Want to play someone who goes to pieces in a crisis and would rather scream for help than fight for survival? That's fine, just make sure it's a man or it'd be offensive. Oh, and that man had better be heterosexual or it'd be offensive. Best not make him French, either, just to be on the safe side.
Prissy men exist, as do butch women. Prissy women also exist, as do butch men. Why is it only permissible to play the former group, just because stereotypes exist about the latter? By tiptoeing around and kowtowing to these stereotypes, we serve only to give them power. I will play exactly the character I want, and if people are concerned about my intent or the influences which lead me to the character I've chosen, they can ask me. If they'd rather just assume I'm a racist jerk or a sexist pig, I'll happily assume that they're judgmental twits and go on with my game.
. I believe there are enough examples of differing thought-processes between the genders, whether naturally occuring or as learned behavior, to say that there is a typical male or female thought process.
That is a copout, and worse, in this situation, an excuse to not even try roleplaying. Six plus billion folks and whatnot.
And to add to my list, some people would rather play evil than another gender. Ridiculous.
WTF are you talking about? I was supporting the idea that there are typical thought processes relating to the genders, not to avoid role-playing. Jesus Christ, get a grip!
I inquired before introducing the character whether anyone would be offended. Everyone said no problem.
If someone HAD objected, I would not be playing the character as a homosexual.
But too often in various other settings I see what amounts to "I think it's possible that some members of that group would be offended, so I'm going to be preemptively offended on their behalf." Without actually asking the opinion of any member of the group in question. And this has frequently been taken seriously and used as a reason why broad swathes of things Should Not Be Done.
What's the effect of that? Aside from the constraints on potential actions that a sensible person would not be offended by, it means that people who really are offended are not taken as seriously by many people, even when their taking offense is entirely reasonable and justified.
Now, why did I want to play a homosexual character in the first place? Well, really, I didn't; it just emerged as part of the development of the character concept. The character could be heterosexual just as easily, but homosexual seemed a better fit.
Did it bother me to play something that I am not? Well, I observe that the large majority of decent literature has both male and female characters but only one writer, who therefore is of only one gender. I see no pattern of males writing females badly, or vice versa; if such a pattern DID exist, then there would be a huge market for books written by male/female teams, and such collaborations are relatively rare.
So the notion that males can't do females, or vice versa, fails.
Similarly, I have no trouble finding homosexual characters written by authors I know to be heterosexual (or, to be precise, long-married to a person of the opposite sex - because I don't inquire into authors' sex lives); if I cared enough to be aware of any homosexual authors, I'd probably be able to point to some well-written heterosexual characters in their books.
The only way that playing a different species seems easier is that there obviously is nobody who can definitively say "you're doing it wrong". But really, there is nobody who can definitively say that about gender or sexuality either. Oh yeah? I'm playing this homosexual wrong? Prove to me that no homosexual would act that way. I am not playing a statistical universe of homosexuals, just one. And if that one happens to perfectly match some really bad stereotypes - in real life I've known people who perfectly matched really bad stereotypes.
I ended up coming up with an explanation for her usual avoidance of sex coupled with the fact that she eventually slept with an NPC, and it stands as an outstanding example of my getting into a character's head and actually comprehending a viewpoint that the real me would probably never have cause to develop otherwise.Out-of-gender roleplay can definitely be an illuminating experience. If you're just gaming to have fun it's probably not worth the bother, but if you want to actually explore the human condition, which I believe is the full potential of the hobby (I'm pretentious that way lol), switching your gender glasses by way of a well-realized character has the potential to be particularly enlightening.
Its all about human nature, preferences, hormones and the personification of your own ideals and your projection of what you believe to be the ideals of the opposite sex. The question is, how far did we take it? Or how seriously more to the point.
I know I tend to amuse myself with games like Baldur's Gate, Morrowind, etc by playing as a female character. Simply because I find it more preferable and aesthetically pleasing to watch a pair of breasts bounce around setting things on fire, stabbing orcs and obliterating zombies than to have a buff, well muscled chip'n'dale swing a claymore. That is purely because I am male and my sexuality is heterosexual. I do not, however, pretend that I am the female nor do I try to replicate the highly complex emotional intelligence of a woman who can't, for the love of god, read a map!? I just play my game. I agree that it would be interesting though - to try visualize what a woman would do in the circumstances and limitations of my game. Without guidance or more experience with the opposite sex, all my actions would be from speculation
But thats just my preference. Some people I know play games like the Grand Theft Auto series and purposefully make their character obese, more so as to make the game a bit more challenging as your limitations in athletics, fighting etc are enhanced - rather than to understand how it is to be fat. So whether you are male or female, playing as an immensly strong male figure - who may or may not be very intelligent - is roleplaying as someone who can use that strength to do or get what they want. It could be revenge, justice, guardian, king, general, pikeman, carpenter, chef... Same goes for any character design. Short, fat, tall, ugly, weak, sexy, intelligent; Which goal does it matter and why should anyone care if you use diplomacy or a broad-axe regardless of gender?
Roleplaying as the opposite sex should be, I imagine, an enlightening experience. Especially if you are playing with a group and some of the group is of your opposite gender. A favourite novelist of mine (Robert Jordan who is now deceased) wrote books that bounced between one sex and the next, weaving a large number of personalities, sexualities and stereotyped characters together constantly. He thanks his wife constantly for her support in writing the female personas. Without her help he would simply have been writing his own machinations of what and how a woman should think and act. Robin Hobb is a female novelist who writes from both male and female perspectives, she does it very well but you can see her female perceptions. Both of the authors gender perceptions can be identified within their books, even with help from the opposite sex.
So I guess the point of all this rambling is to say that maybe more people should try roleplaying their opposite gender and that maybe it would be more progressive if they have influence from a member of their opposite sex. I know I will never understand women. I am perfectly sure that no woman will ever be able to understand my thought patterns either. My Wife has told me she has given up on trying long ago. But we both have more patience and insight towards members of the opposite sex for our efforts.
I haven't often replayed cross-gender, but I am currently playing a homosexual character; and the entire group I am in knows definitively that I am not homosexual. I suspect some of the group are (I've never had occasion to ask).
Now there's something I hadn't thought about. I've run homosexual NPCs, one of whom was contracted by the party to serve as the rogue. I rolled randomly for gender on a third-party table and the character came out as gay. I got a little devlish feeling at about that point. I played the character as a dashing rogue, popular with the ladies but always the gentleman, and with a refined taste for the finer things in life. 'Don Juan' they kept calling him, 'Cassanova', etc. When asked about whom he may have bedded, he would respond something like "Tsk! Never kiss and tell!" As the dungeon progressed and "Julio" held his own, he was pretty much accepted as one of the guys, albeit it one of the guys with good taste. No "Bear With Furniture" type guy here. As they got to the lich's main chambers and the undead horrors began their moves, on his turn Julio gasped in horror. The lich was wearing corduroy! "*Shriek!* Oh my gods! How can you be seen in public wearing THAT?!?" He then proceeded to help with the ass-kicking, but I kept up the banter criticising the lich's choice of decor.
It was fun to play, because at least two of the players were homophobic. Watching them squirm a little as they realized Julio was "light in the loafers" was rather enjoyable. And before anyone screams that I was stereotyping gays, the inspiration for Julio was a fictional character who was lauded by the gay community, Donna Barr's "The Desert Peach". Julio was essentially a toned-down Pfirsich done as a rogue.
While I understand that some groups have problems with cross-gender roleplaying, I have never really fully grasped that. We are all pretending to be playing someone else when we are roleplaying, why is a different gender so jarring? So, if it sounds interesting to you give it a try. If it does not, then do not. Some people do not play dwarves for example and that is fine too.
But seriously...I've found that when I play a character of either gender for long enough, their sexuality always comes into play, at least in my own head. I tend to be more positively responsive to female NPCs, because the real me is girl-crazy and man-phobic and I would always pay attention to a pretty girl who wanted something from me (I might not give it, I might even lash out at her for asking for it, but I wouldn't just discount the request out of hand, whereas a guy who tries to get things out of me is likely to be ignored unless I'm afraid of him beating me up, in which case he will be actively avoided). When I play a female character, this is likely to shift in one of two directions - either the character is lesbian and keeps my shy/worshipful attitude toward women prettier than her, or the character is straight and highly sexual (Judith was a rare exception). But even the latter case fits my preferences - a highly sexual female character of mine isn't attracted to guys, she craves her own satisfaction and takes advantage of guys's willingness to oblige her.
For this same reason, I would have about twelve times more difficulty playing a gay man than a woman of any variety. I've created probably at least 300 characters of various types in my life, close to 100 were female, probably 30 or so of them were lesbian...for gay guys, I'm struggling to think of two. I can understand what it's like to be female, if only by stereotype, but understanding what it's like to consider males attractive or desireable is a lot harder for me. As a roleplayer this bothers me a little, but I don't expect much change on account of my general issues.
My first defining character in Vampire:The Masquerade was female and I played her for three years. A character I played on a forum for about two and a half years was female and I apparently portrayed her so well that multiple members of the forum, both male and female, thought I (as a player) was actually a girl. Right now, my (female) paladin Valera in D&D4e has reached the 7th level and a fellow player and I are already planning on developing a romantic relationship between the characters; both of us are in functional relationships with our real-life girlfriends. There are at least half a dozen other examples I could list, but won't.
Then again, I make it a point not to RP with idiots or jerks, so that might explain why I had no bad experiences in the area so far.
In conclusion, while females may very well have thought processes I am not privy to, they tend to arrive at the same conclusions. How they got there is not really relevant, since I sure as heck don't tell the other players my character's every thought.
What about a lesbian dwarf? Or did I just cross the line..?!
No crossing the line would have been to continue after this comment with "AND IF YOU THINK THEIR FACIAL HAIR IS BAD, you should see the hair they have..."
Ok, now I've crossed the line...
Bad me.
I've played female chars and male chars and the whole concept was to play them for story usually. If I wanted some miso thing just to beat on something gender never mattered and chars died often. The real characters though had depth to them, creative backgrounds, flaws that were played and meaning to explore through role play story telling, create something from paper and bring it to life regardless of gender. Being a heterosexual female had nothing to do with it. I could drop myself into the character and become it just like when I did with acting a role in grade school or highschool. Being able to do this has its benefits in understanding others' behavior...often. I'll refrain from discussing my background and which side of my brain I live in....let's just say, both and it's taken years to develop both sides.
~ The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step
What about a lesbian dwarf? Or did I just cross the line..?!
No crossing the line would have been to continue after this comment with "AND IF YOU THINK THEIR FACIAL HAIR IS BAD, you should see the hair they have..."
Ok, now I've crossed the line...
Bad me.
Your username makes this particularly funny.
Am I deficient because I'd rather watch Alien vs Predator than a chic flick
No, you're deficient cos Alien vs. Predator was crap.
;)
Personally I just go with whatever gender makes the character feel more alive to me. Though I can admit to playing far more female characters than male, with my favourite character of all time being female as well.