Have you took a level in greatness? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Have you took a level in greatness?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
TheOneWhoCallCrow
Dec 25, 2011 5:28:35 Have you character ever took a level in a certain class that made it totally great compared to it was before the leveling?

I haven't have a lot of experience in multiclassing, but on D&D Online my paladin took one lv in rogue and went form healing duty to tanking duty.

Share us your stories!
#2
Samrin
Dec 25, 2011 6:22:53
Have you character ever took a level in a certain class that made it totally great compared to it was before the leveling?

I haven't have a lot of experience in multiclassing, but on D&D Online my paladin took one lv in rogue and went form healing duty to tanking duty.

Share us your stories!

This belongs in the previous editions forum, as you don't take levels to multiclass in 4e. This is 4e general discussion.
#3
TheOneWhoCallCrow
Dec 25, 2011 8:35:37 Samrin, you serious?

Are you telling me that I can't be a fighter/wizard in 4e? Not even a fighter with arcane powers?

What kind of trickery is this?

How about feats? I remember taking power attack that turned my paladin into a damage dealer.
#4
Symar
Dec 25, 2011 8:40:56 You could be a fighter and take some feats that will let you swap some of your powers out for wizard powers, or vice versa. That's 4e multiclassing.
#5
thecasualoblivion
Dec 25, 2011 8:41:08
Samrin, you serious?

Are you telling me that I can't be a fighter/wizard in 4e? Not even a fighter with arcane powers?

What kind of trickery is this?

How about feats? I remember taking power attack that turned my paladin into a damage dealer.

You can multiclass, you just don't do it by taking a level in a class. In 4th edition(which is the focus of this forum as opposed to other editions or video games), you multiclass by going Hybrid during charcter creation, or by spending feats to multiclass. Either that, or you play a new class that fits your concept, for example Fighter/Wizard = Swordmage.
#6
Samrin
Dec 25, 2011 9:36:10
Samrin, you serious?

Are you telling me that I can't be a fighter/wizard in 4e? Not even a fighter with arcane powers?

What kind of trickery is this?

How about feats? I remember taking power attack that turned my paladin into a damage dealer.

If you want to multiclass wizard, you take the wizard multiclass feat which will give you training in Arcana, and give you access to wizard feats, paragon paths, and power swap feats. If you want a specific power from the wizard, you simply take the appropriate power swap feat at the appropriate level, and you swap one of your own powers for a wizard one of the same type. No more taking levels in other classes.
#7
ORC_Ragnar
Dec 25, 2011 10:14:00
I’ve removed content from this thread because vulgarities are a violation of the Code of Conduct.

You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...

Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.

If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
#8
TheOneWhoCallCrow
Dec 25, 2011 11:45:12 alright I fully understand the code.

Let's try to keep this on topic before the ORCs close it down.
#9
salla
Dec 25, 2011 12:08:33 I've got a Wizard|Psion who MC'd Cleric to take Divine Oracle as her Paragon Path. Roll twice on attacks vs. Will? Yes please.
#10
mellored
Dec 25, 2011 18:18:27 Well to answer your question.

Many builds can change drasticly at lvl 11, 16, 21, 24, and 30.
#11
AbdulAlhazred
Dec 25, 2011 18:57:05 Yeah, it is a bit hard to compare 3rd Edition MCing and AD&D MCing with things that exist in 4e. In 4e you have:

1) Multi-class feats - You use a feat slot to take an MC feat. Normally you're only allowed one (bards being an exception). This usually gives you some sort of class feature of the class you MC into and lets you qualify as a member of that class. It also usually gives you a skill and sometimes a limited use of a power of the other class. You also get access to power swap feats.

2) There are 3 power swap feats, one each for encounter, utility, and daily powers. Taking one lets you swap a class power for a power of the other class. Doing this you could get up to 3 powers of another class, plus maybe a limited use one from the basic MC feat. Its an expensive way to get powers, but sometimes it is worth it if another class has a power that is highly useful.

3) You can take additional MC feats for the class you are already MCed into. Sometimes this is a useful way to get extra features. You can also take other feats in your MC, which is often the reason for MCing in the first place. Once you hit level 11 there are generally some more effective MC feats for some classes that give better access to class features. Not all classes have these, but some of them can be pretty handy.

4) You can PMC at level 11. If you took an MC feat and all 3 power swaps you can trade an at-will for one of the other class, and then also pick paragon tier powers of the other class at higher levels. This does require giving up having a paragon path, so it is almost never worthwhile, with one or two corner cases.

5) At level 11 you get a paragon path, which is a lot like a 3e PRC. It has some powers and PP features. PPs are usually class-specific, but you can use an MC feat to get another classes' PPs, which is fairly common.

6) At level 21 you get an epic destiny. These are similar to PPs and help define the ultimate destiny of your character at level 30. They generally have a couple of features and a capstone power. Again, if you MC you can take EDs that are related to the MC, though EDs are often less class-specific than PPs.

7) You can construct a hybrid character. This is pretty similar to AD&D MCing. You are a member of both classes. Instead of splitting XP between them as you did in AD&D you just get a reduced set of features from each half-class, and you pick half your powers (more or less) from each class. Many hybrids are poor choices, but there are some that work quite well, maybe better than their standard class versions. A hybrid can also MC, giving you some access to a 3rd class.

8) Themes allow you to add additional customization to your character. These are a bit like PPs but can be selected at any level (usually 1st, but you can wait). Each theme gives your character added options, and often is a better option than MCing.

9) There are also 'bloodline' feats, 'style' feats, and possibly other types as well. These are generally small trees that work much like themes (and probably are generally being displaced by the newer theme concept, but they are still available).

10) Magic to some extent works differently in 4e than in previous edition. Most of the more durable magical effects are rituals, not powers. Rituals can be used by any character which has the ritual caster feat (or one or two other variations of it). You can then have a ritual book and spend money to buy ritual formulae. This lets pretty much any character in principle incorporate some level of magic use, although it is more often used by casters than non-casters since many of them get it for free. In any case for a character that would like to add non-combat type casting to their other abilities this is pretty cheap and works fairly well since you can acquire a lot of rituals without needing to burn more feat slots.

In other words 4e lacks the 'pick a level in any class' sort of craziness of 3e, but it does let you mix and match things in a large variety of different ways. 4e also has a LOT of classes, maybe not as many as 3.5 did by the end, but enough (more than 30) that you can usually make almost any character with a single class. Once you add in the above options you have 1000's of possible choices.
#12
TheOneWhoCallCrow
Dec 25, 2011 23:56:35
I've got a Wizard|Psion who MC'd Cleric to take Divine Oracle as her Paragon Path. Roll twice on attacks vs. Will? Yes please.

Wow, just wow. This is what I been talking about. I would love to hear stories on how your character abuse that power to the fullest. Roll twice on attacks vs Will equal why resist in my book.
#13
Garthanos
Dec 26, 2011 1:49:13 Every level is awesome.. though paragon and epic transitions are perhaps more awesome its not from multiclassing... as it doesnt need to be.

Basically they did away with all those levels of lame.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 TheOneWhoCallCrow Dec 25, 2011 5:28:35	Have you character ever took a level in a certain class that made it totally great compared to it was before the leveling? I haven't have a lot of experience in multiclassing, but on D&D Online my paladin took one lv in rogue and went form healing duty to tanking duty. Share us your stories!
#2 Samrin Dec 25, 2011 6:22:53	Have you character ever took a level in a certain class that made it totally great compared to it was before the leveling? I haven't have a lot of experience in multiclassing, but on D&D Online my paladin took one lv in rogue and went form healing duty to tanking duty. Share us your stories! This belongs in the previous editions forum, as you don't take levels to multiclass in 4e. This is 4e general discussion.
#3 TheOneWhoCallCrow Dec 25, 2011 8:35:37	Samrin, you serious? Are you telling me that I can't be a fighter/wizard in 4e? Not even a fighter with arcane powers? What kind of trickery is this? How about feats? I remember taking power attack that turned my paladin into a damage dealer.
#4 Symar Dec 25, 2011 8:40:56	You could be a fighter and take some feats that will let you swap some of your powers out for wizard powers, or vice versa. That's 4e multiclassing.
#5 thecasualoblivion Dec 25, 2011 8:41:08	Samrin, you serious? Are you telling me that I can't be a fighter/wizard in 4e? Not even a fighter with arcane powers? What kind of trickery is this? How about feats? I remember taking power attack that turned my paladin into a damage dealer. You can multiclass, you just don't do it by taking a level in a class. In 4th edition(which is the focus of this forum as opposed to other editions or video games), you multiclass by going Hybrid during charcter creation, or by spending feats to multiclass. Either that, or you play a new class that fits your concept, for example Fighter/Wizard = Swordmage.
#6 Samrin Dec 25, 2011 9:36:10	Samrin, you serious? Are you telling me that I can't be a fighter/wizard in 4e? Not even a fighter with arcane powers? What kind of trickery is this? How about feats? I remember taking power attack that turned my paladin into a damage dealer. If you want to multiclass wizard, you take the wizard multiclass feat which will give you training in Arcana, and give you access to wizard feats, paragon paths, and power swap feats. If you want a specific power from the wizard, you simply take the appropriate power swap feat at the appropriate level, and you swap one of your own powers for a wizard one of the same type. No more taking levels in other classes.
#7 ORC_Ragnar Dec 25, 2011 10:14:00	I’ve removed content from this thread because vulgarities are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
#8 TheOneWhoCallCrow Dec 25, 2011 11:45:12	alright I fully understand the code. Let's try to keep this on topic before the ORCs close it down.
#9 salla Dec 25, 2011 12:08:33	I've got a Wizard\|Psion who MC'd Cleric to take Divine Oracle as her Paragon Path. Roll twice on attacks vs. Will? Yes please.
#10 mellored Dec 25, 2011 18:18:27	Well to answer your question. Many builds can change drasticly at lvl 11, 16, 21, 24, and 30.
#11 AbdulAlhazred Dec 25, 2011 18:57:05	Yeah, it is a bit hard to compare 3rd Edition MCing and AD&D MCing with things that exist in 4e. In 4e you have: 1) Multi-class feats - You use a feat slot to take an MC feat. Normally you're only allowed one (bards being an exception). This usually gives you some sort of class feature of the class you MC into and lets you qualify as a member of that class. It also usually gives you a skill and sometimes a limited use of a power of the other class. You also get access to power swap feats. 2) There are 3 power swap feats, one each for encounter, utility, and daily powers. Taking one lets you swap a class power for a power of the other class. Doing this you could get up to 3 powers of another class, plus maybe a limited use one from the basic MC feat. Its an expensive way to get powers, but sometimes it is worth it if another class has a power that is highly useful. 3) You can take additional MC feats for the class you are already MCed into. Sometimes this is a useful way to get extra features. You can also take other feats in your MC, which is often the reason for MCing in the first place. Once you hit level 11 there are generally some more effective MC feats for some classes that give better access to class features. Not all classes have these, but some of them can be pretty handy. 4) You can PMC at level 11. If you took an MC feat and all 3 power swaps you can trade an at-will for one of the other class, and then also pick paragon tier powers of the other class at higher levels. This does require giving up having a paragon path, so it is almost never worthwhile, with one or two corner cases. 5) At level 11 you get a paragon path, which is a lot like a 3e PRC. It has some powers and PP features. PPs are usually class-specific, but you can use an MC feat to get another classes' PPs, which is fairly common. 6) At level 21 you get an epic destiny. These are similar to PPs and help define the ultimate destiny of your character at level 30. They generally have a couple of features and a capstone power. Again, if you MC you can take EDs that are related to the MC, though EDs are often less class-specific than PPs. 7) You can construct a hybrid character. This is pretty similar to AD&D MCing. You are a member of both classes. Instead of splitting XP between them as you did in AD&D you just get a reduced set of features from each half-class, and you pick half your powers (more or less) from each class. Many hybrids are poor choices, but there are some that work quite well, maybe better than their standard class versions. A hybrid can also MC, giving you some access to a 3rd class. 8) Themes allow you to add additional customization to your character. These are a bit like PPs but can be selected at any level (usually 1st, but you can wait). Each theme gives your character added options, and often is a better option than MCing. 9) There are also 'bloodline' feats, 'style' feats, and possibly other types as well. These are generally small trees that work much like themes (and probably are generally being displaced by the newer theme concept, but they are still available). 10) Magic to some extent works differently in 4e than in previous edition. Most of the more durable magical effects are rituals, not powers. Rituals can be used by any character which has the ritual caster feat (or one or two other variations of it). You can then have a ritual book and spend money to buy ritual formulae. This lets pretty much any character in principle incorporate some level of magic use, although it is more often used by casters than non-casters since many of them get it for free. In any case for a character that would like to add non-combat type casting to their other abilities this is pretty cheap and works fairly well since you can acquire a lot of rituals without needing to burn more feat slots. In other words 4e lacks the 'pick a level in any class' sort of craziness of 3e, but it does let you mix and match things in a large variety of different ways. 4e also has a LOT of classes, maybe not as many as 3.5 did by the end, but enough (more than 30) that you can usually make almost any character with a single class. Once you add in the above options you have 1000's of possible choices.
#12 TheOneWhoCallCrow Dec 25, 2011 23:56:35	I've got a Wizard\|Psion who MC'd Cleric to take Divine Oracle as her Paragon Path. Roll twice on attacks vs. Will? Yes please. Wow, just wow. This is what I been talking about. I would love to hear stories on how your character abuse that power to the fullest. Roll twice on attacks vs Will equal why resist in my book.
#13 Garthanos Dec 26, 2011 1:49:13	Every level is awesome.. though paragon and epic transitions are perhaps more awesome its not from multiclassing... as it doesnt need to be. Basically they did away with all those levels of lame.