Having fun with the PHB1 - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Having fun with the PHB1

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
degausser
Apr 23, 2010 12:55:52
Okay, so, occasionally on the boards, I see some people who go a little crazy if the DM doesn't allow every single supplement in his game. Now, while I agree that a DM who bans things willy-nilly isn't a good DM, I would also like to point out that people can have lots of fun with just the core books.

In other words, if the DM says that there are no warforged in his game, or no swordmages, then there are still ample opportunities for fun, because even the standard classes can have a lot of different flair if you just put a little thought into them. To that end, I have compiled a list of "non-standard" designs for the PHB1 classes. Feel free to add your own if you want.

Cleric
Standard design: Dude in Chainmail with a mace, talking about god.

Shintoist: High INT but low Strength, believes in spirits all around. Concentrates on barriers and aura effects, and is quite knowledgeable, especially about spirits, take Arcana as a skill.
Medicine Man: High Dex, low strength, uses hide armor. From a more primitive technological culture, but uses many magic abilities. Good at healing and portents.
Scholar: Again High INT and low strength, acts more like a mage, using many, many magic spells and almost never gets into combat. Quite learned.

Fighter
Standard Design: Dude in scale with a shield and sword

Henin: Japanese Footsoldier, specializing in pole-arms, such as the Glaive (Naginata). Also makes liberal use of bows. Very into honor and loyalty.
Phalanx: Uses one-handed spear and large shield, and has Javalins as ranged weapons. Concentrates on spear-based weaponry as well as shield-based attacks like Tide of Iron.
Norse Fighter: Specializes in pillaging and two-handed weapons (like the greatsword or greataxe). Most likely has intimidate and Endurance as skills, and probably has sailing as a background knowledge.

Paladin
Standard Design: Dude in scale with a shield and sword, all Religious and holier-than-thou.

Samurai: Many ways you could go, with a bastard sword (Katana), Greatsword (NoDachi), Maul (Tetsubo/Kanabo), or Glaive (Naginata), uses a longbow. Skils should include Insight and History, as Samurai were trained in the classics and in judging opponents. Strength based paladins, very loyal and honorable, but humble.
Knight: While (I admit) very similar to a 'normal' paladin, sometimes it's worth it to go whole hog into the knight's history and attempt to make a character based off of that.
The Chosen One: A simple Farmboy chosen by god. Simple trappings, such as an axe and wooden shield. Very humble.
Rajput: Indian Warrior, with a shield and scimitar, very highly educated and in the nobility. Could also work as a fighter, but would be difficult to work in the educated bit (with the fighter's skill selection.)

Ranger:
Standard Design: Elf with a bow and/or two swords.

Miyamoto Musahi: Based off the famed Japanese Duelist, a Ranger that is a former noble, stripped of his position, and wields two Bastard swords (Katanas)
Mongolian Archer: As a standard Ranger Archer, but with a concentration on tactics and horsemanship, very aggresive, military style, and only has Nature for the ability to forage.
Native American: Not to generalize, but there are a great deal of Native American cultures that one could model a Ranger off of (either Archery or two weapon.) Google Search Wikipedia for any Native American culture you like!
English Longbowman: A VERY different take on a ranger, a longbowman is GREAT at archery, is part of nobility, and has almost nothing to do with nature.

Rogue:
Standard Design: Money-grubbing Purse-snatcher

Ninja: You saw this comming, the freakin' Ninja. Concentrate on feats that increase the stealth skill and allow for hit-and-run tactics. Get the acrobatics and athletics skills to be sure.
Fencer: A very different take on a Rogue, Get a proficiency in the Rapier and run around declairing yourself an upstanding duelist. Grab as many abilities and powers as you can that let you get combat advantage while standing face-to-face with someone, charisma is key.
Apache Daggermaster: The Native American Apache were some of the best dagger-users in the world. Get the feat Skill Training: Survival and pump your abilities with daggers as much as you can (going into the daggermaster presitge class.)
Professional Ruins Explorer: You're not a Thief! You explore ancient ruins for long-lost tres-er, uh, you explore ruins for priceless historical artifacts that you can return to your king. Very professional and very good at exploring, Pick up the history skill and make sure you are great at Thievery (to disarm all those traps.)

Well, as you can see, there are many, many ways to flesh out any character you make. I will fill out the list with Warlocks, Wizards, and Warlords later, though the same ideas will apply. Take their abilities, what they CAN BECOME and run with them, don't just accept the base class, but see what you can do with it.
#2
diggles
Apr 24, 2010 15:34:13 the powers and lack of class feats make PHB1 feel like generic flavorless gruel. Especially for anyone whos done D&D before and done a fair amount of RPG gaming
#3
nelphine
Apr 24, 2010 17:55:24
I have to disagree with Diggles, and agree with the OP - in general, rules, regardless of how many choices support those rules, are not what make a game fun. Rather, your ability to enjoy those rules make a game fun. If you only play with the PHB, you simply have less choice on the rules-side - and even then, you have far more choices than anyone who played first edition had. And I know I had lots of fun with first edition (just the PHB, no Unearthed Arcana or any other supplement) for years.

Of course, the expanded supplements specifically expand your ability to kill things within the scope of the rules, and for some people (especially LFR groups), that is the main draw of D&D - so using the supplements adds a lot.
#4
fishpro
Apr 25, 2010 8:38:56 PH1-only gaming could be perfectly fun for the right group.

But what if someone wants to make a Druid? A Bard? A Ranger that relies heavily on an animal companion?

Potentially, you could reflavor the Cleric into a Shaman-like leader, but it'd be a lot of work to make the class feel different enough. Whereas, I feel there's nothing in the PH1 close enough to the Bard, Druid, or "beastmaster" Ranger to make them happen.

I could kind of understand a "Players Handbooks only" campaign, that is, no Power books or Dragon articles. But restricting it to the PH1 alone seems to be going too far.

That's my two cents. Obviously, if it works for your group, cheers to you!
#5
degausser
Apr 25, 2010 12:00:00 @Fishpro

The point of this post was not that other books SHOULD be ignored, it's that people don't need other books to have a good campaign. In other words, there are a lot of things you can do with the base book. If you really want to play a druid, then yeah, it's going to be hard to make do without the PHB2, but my point was this:

The PHB1 does not "Only have" eight choices for characters. Just using a bit of creativity, and thinking about things through a different lens, lets you go somewhere different from the stereotypical character. A Rogue doesn't HAVE to be the greedy cutpurse wielding a shorstword, they could be a fencer, or a ninja, or an army's advance scout. A Paladin doesn't HAVE to be a holy knight, they could be a Samurai, or a chosen hero, or a paragon amongst a norse tribe. A Ranger doesn't HAVE to be some sort of super-nature warrior, they could be a Longbowman from an army, a Miyamoto Musashi character, or a kung-fu guy specializing in two blades.
#6
ADHadh
Apr 26, 2010 13:45:34 Having only the basic three books and so studying the PHB extensively, I agree with OP. PHB is enough to play and it gives you quite a lot. A little summary from me:

8 races, 5 classic fantasy (meaning they already have fans), two relatively unique (dragonborn and tieflings) and a re-imagining of a staple in the form of Eladrin is not too shabby.
8 classes, again classic (and very popular) fantasy ones with only Warlord being something rather new. Those include 2 leaders, two defenders, three strikers (one ranged, two ranged and melee) and 1 controller.
All those classes have two suggested build each. Combined with the races it gives you 8x8x2=128 different level one characters straight from the book. That is actually quite a lot.
Then you get multiclassing and builds not suggested, but easy to come up with yourself (for instance, with PHB alone you could play a decent summoner cleric).
I've found only three things that suggest PHB may be lacking: a) there's only one controller, b) off-hand weapons have little use and c) Brew Potion being level 1 (after errata) with no level 1 potions present. You don't need many books to fix that.
#7
Overmind69
Apr 26, 2010 15:06:57 I've been in many 4th edition campaigns, and my favorite one was one of the earliest, with only the PHB1.
#8
tsukinousagi
Apr 30, 2010 20:00:16 Excellent post Degausse.

The game isn't what makes the game fun, only the player and the DM can make the game fun.

I suspect you are a great asset in a group.
#9
oxybe
May 01, 2010 19:49:13 Druid? define druid. when i think of druid i think exactly a wilderness focused cleric/shaman type character, not the scimitar weilding, spell slinging, pet riding, turns into a t-rex abomination. the classic druid is "shaggy guy in dull brown robes sitting on the ground mumbling about trees and spirits".

Bard? i think 2 things, either the classic "guy who goes around singing and fighting" and can be filled by several classes (especially the warlord who inspires others to greatness or a cunning rogue with a penchant for song), or "guy who sings and magic happens". warlock or wizard fits this quite well, with only a little reflavoring needed.

Barbarian? i never saw the need for a class about this since i started playing in 2nd ed. seriously, it's a fighter who lives in the woods and requires a trip to the anger-management cleric every week.

"beastmaster" is a harder one to do, but it's one i was able to live without until they did it "right". if you played 3rd ed, you might have run into a class called Druid who was actually a shapeshifting cleric and came with a built-in pet fighter. the ranger's pet, on the other hand, wasn't strong enough to contribute fully by helping the ranger in combat due to the weird scaling issues. i have similar issues with summon-necros and i'm more then happy WotC is taking time to address this issue, should they even bring a PC equivalent of this archetype

not every game can make every archetype work without a little elbow grease every now and then. expect as much and you'll be disappointed quite often.
#10
zxvalarevan
May 01, 2010 23:16:22 I both agree and disagree.

While I agree that flavorwise, you're pretty well off with just the PHB1, I've always been a person that has never really had a great want for more flavor. This is simply because, as you pointed out, it's pretty easy to think up your own.

Mechanically of course, a PHB1 only game could easily be fun, however for me at least, the additional mechanical options added make the game exponentially more fun.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 degausser Apr 23, 2010 12:55:52	Okay, so, occasionally on the boards, I see some people who go a little crazy if the DM doesn't allow every single supplement in his game. Now, while I agree that a DM who bans things willy-nilly isn't a good DM, I would also like to point out that people can have lots of fun with just the core books. In other words, if the DM says that there are no warforged in his game, or no swordmages, then there are still ample opportunities for fun, because even the standard classes can have a lot of different flair if you just put a little thought into them. To that end, I have compiled a list of "non-standard" designs for the PHB1 classes. Feel free to add your own if you want. Cleric Standard design: Dude in Chainmail with a mace, talking about god. Shintoist: High INT but low Strength, believes in spirits all around. Concentrates on barriers and aura effects, and is quite knowledgeable, especially about spirits, take Arcana as a skill. Medicine Man: High Dex, low strength, uses hide armor. From a more primitive technological culture, but uses many magic abilities. Good at healing and portents. Scholar: Again High INT and low strength, acts more like a mage, using many, many magic spells and almost never gets into combat. Quite learned. Fighter Standard Design: Dude in scale with a shield and sword Henin: Japanese Footsoldier, specializing in pole-arms, such as the Glaive (Naginata). Also makes liberal use of bows. Very into honor and loyalty. Phalanx: Uses one-handed spear and large shield, and has Javalins as ranged weapons. Concentrates on spear-based weaponry as well as shield-based attacks like Tide of Iron. Norse Fighter: Specializes in pillaging and two-handed weapons (like the greatsword or greataxe). Most likely has intimidate and Endurance as skills, and probably has sailing as a background knowledge. Paladin Standard Design: Dude in scale with a shield and sword, all Religious and holier-than-thou. Samurai: Many ways you could go, with a bastard sword (Katana), Greatsword (NoDachi), Maul (Tetsubo/Kanabo), or Glaive (Naginata), uses a longbow. Skils should include Insight and History, as Samurai were trained in the classics and in judging opponents. Strength based paladins, very loyal and honorable, but humble. Knight: While (I admit) very similar to a 'normal' paladin, sometimes it's worth it to go whole hog into the knight's history and attempt to make a character based off of that. The Chosen One: A simple Farmboy chosen by god. Simple trappings, such as an axe and wooden shield. Very humble. Rajput: Indian Warrior, with a shield and scimitar, very highly educated and in the nobility. Could also work as a fighter, but would be difficult to work in the educated bit (with the fighter's skill selection.) Ranger: Standard Design: Elf with a bow and/or two swords. Miyamoto Musahi: Based off the famed Japanese Duelist, a Ranger that is a former noble, stripped of his position, and wields two Bastard swords (Katanas) Mongolian Archer: As a standard Ranger Archer, but with a concentration on tactics and horsemanship, very aggresive, military style, and only has Nature for the ability to forage. Native American: Not to generalize, but there are a great deal of Native American cultures that one could model a Ranger off of (either Archery or two weapon.) Google Search Wikipedia for any Native American culture you like! English Longbowman: A VERY different take on a ranger, a longbowman is GREAT at archery, is part of nobility, and has almost nothing to do with nature. Rogue: Standard Design: Money-grubbing Purse-snatcher Ninja: You saw this comming, the freakin' Ninja. Concentrate on feats that increase the stealth skill and allow for hit-and-run tactics. Get the acrobatics and athletics skills to be sure. Fencer: A very different take on a Rogue, Get a proficiency in the Rapier and run around declairing yourself an upstanding duelist. Grab as many abilities and powers as you can that let you get combat advantage while standing face-to-face with someone, charisma is key. Apache Daggermaster: The Native American Apache were some of the best dagger-users in the world. Get the feat Skill Training: Survival and pump your abilities with daggers as much as you can (going into the daggermaster presitge class.) Professional Ruins Explorer: You're not a Thief! You explore ancient ruins for long-lost tres-er, uh, you explore ruins for priceless historical artifacts that you can return to your king. Very professional and very good at exploring, Pick up the history skill and make sure you are great at Thievery (to disarm all those traps.) Well, as you can see, there are many, many ways to flesh out any character you make. I will fill out the list with Warlocks, Wizards, and Warlords later, though the same ideas will apply. Take their abilities, what they CAN BECOME and run with them, don't just accept the base class, but see what you can do with it.
#2 diggles Apr 24, 2010 15:34:13	the powers and lack of class feats make PHB1 feel like generic flavorless gruel. Especially for anyone whos done D&D before and done a fair amount of RPG gaming
#3 nelphine Apr 24, 2010 17:55:24	I have to disagree with Diggles, and agree with the OP - in general, rules, regardless of how many choices support those rules, are not what make a game fun. Rather, your ability to enjoy those rules make a game fun. If you only play with the PHB, you simply have less choice on the rules-side - and even then, you have far more choices than anyone who played first edition had. And I know I had lots of fun with first edition (just the PHB, no Unearthed Arcana or any other supplement) for years. Of course, the expanded supplements specifically expand your ability to kill things within the scope of the rules, and for some people (especially LFR groups), that is the main draw of D&D - so using the supplements adds a lot.
#4 fishpro Apr 25, 2010 8:38:56	PH1-only gaming could be perfectly fun for the right group. But what if someone wants to make a Druid? A Bard? A Ranger that relies heavily on an animal companion? Potentially, you could reflavor the Cleric into a Shaman-like leader, but it'd be a lot of work to make the class feel different enough. Whereas, I feel there's nothing in the PH1 close enough to the Bard, Druid, or "beastmaster" Ranger to make them happen. I could kind of understand a "Players Handbooks only" campaign, that is, no Power books or Dragon articles. But restricting it to the PH1 alone seems to be going too far. That's my two cents. Obviously, if it works for your group, cheers to you!
#5 degausser Apr 25, 2010 12:00:00	@Fishpro The point of this post was not that other books SHOULD be ignored, it's that people don't need other books to have a good campaign. In other words, there are a lot of things you can do with the base book. If you really want to play a druid, then yeah, it's going to be hard to make do without the PHB2, but my point was this: The PHB1 does not "Only have" eight choices for characters. Just using a bit of creativity, and thinking about things through a different lens, lets you go somewhere different from the stereotypical character. A Rogue doesn't HAVE to be the greedy cutpurse wielding a shorstword, they could be a fencer, or a ninja, or an army's advance scout. A Paladin doesn't HAVE to be a holy knight, they could be a Samurai, or a chosen hero, or a paragon amongst a norse tribe. A Ranger doesn't HAVE to be some sort of super-nature warrior, they could be a Longbowman from an army, a Miyamoto Musashi character, or a kung-fu guy specializing in two blades.
#6 ADHadh Apr 26, 2010 13:45:34	Having only the basic three books and so studying the PHB extensively, I agree with OP. PHB is enough to play and it gives you quite a lot. A little summary from me: 8 races, 5 classic fantasy (meaning they already have fans), two relatively unique (dragonborn and tieflings) and a re-imagining of a staple in the form of Eladrin is not too shabby. 8 classes, again classic (and very popular) fantasy ones with only Warlord being something rather new. Those include 2 leaders, two defenders, three strikers (one ranged, two ranged and melee) and 1 controller. All those classes have two suggested build each. Combined with the races it gives you 8x8x2=128 different level one characters straight from the book. That is actually quite a lot. Then you get multiclassing and builds not suggested, but easy to come up with yourself (for instance, with PHB alone you could play a decent summoner cleric). I've found only three things that suggest PHB may be lacking: a) there's only one controller, b) off-hand weapons have little use and c) Brew Potion being level 1 (after errata) with no level 1 potions present. You don't need many books to fix that.
#7 Overmind69 Apr 26, 2010 15:06:57	I've been in many 4th edition campaigns, and my favorite one was one of the earliest, with only the PHB1.
#8 tsukinousagi Apr 30, 2010 20:00:16	Excellent post Degausse. The game isn't what makes the game fun, only the player and the DM can make the game fun. I suspect you are a great asset in a group.
#9 oxybe May 01, 2010 19:49:13	Druid? define druid. when i think of druid i think exactly a wilderness focused cleric/shaman type character, not the scimitar weilding, spell slinging, pet riding, turns into a t-rex abomination. the classic druid is "shaggy guy in dull brown robes sitting on the ground mumbling about trees and spirits". Bard? i think 2 things, either the classic "guy who goes around singing and fighting" and can be filled by several classes (especially the warlord who inspires others to greatness or a cunning rogue with a penchant for song), or "guy who sings and magic happens". warlock or wizard fits this quite well, with only a little reflavoring needed. Barbarian? i never saw the need for a class about this since i started playing in 2nd ed. seriously, it's a fighter who lives in the woods and requires a trip to the anger-management cleric every week. "beastmaster" is a harder one to do, but it's one i was able to live without until they did it "right". if you played 3rd ed, you might have run into a class called Druid who was actually a shapeshifting cleric and came with a built-in pet fighter. the ranger's pet, on the other hand, wasn't strong enough to contribute fully by helping the ranger in combat due to the weird scaling issues. i have similar issues with summon-necros and i'm more then happy WotC is taking time to address this issue, should they even bring a PC equivalent of this archetype not every game can make every archetype work without a little elbow grease every now and then. expect as much and you'll be disappointed quite often.
#10 zxvalarevan May 01, 2010 23:16:22	I both agree and disagree. While I agree that flavorwise, you're pretty well off with just the PHB1, I've always been a person that has never really had a great want for more flavor. This is simply because, as you pointed out, it's pretty easy to think up your own. Mechanically of course, a PHB1 only game could easily be fun, however for me at least, the additional mechanical options added make the game exponentially more fun.