The thing is, he wants me to be the antagonist. With the party. Secretly. But he doesn't want me to be subtle, he wants me to backstab the party a bit. I think this isn't a very good idea for making the players very happy with one another OOC. Now, the idea immediately sprung to mind of a Eladrin Feylock who just likes messing with people to see what their limits are (read: "see what it takes to make them break"), but I still don't like the idea of playing for the first time in a year and not really getting to play.
The only thing is, I've been looking for a game for about the entirety of that year. Not a single person in my (Rather large) area is advertising a game in real life nor online, and I haven't managed to get down to the local hobby store (As local as an hour away can be) to ask if they know of anyone.
So my options are play the game presented to me as the DM's pawn, act like a jerkwad evil dude to get back for the times he screwed us over in the previous campaigns ("DM vs Players is the way it is meant to be" my ass) or just say "No thank you" and go back to my vain search for a game.
Help?
Can you not simply tell him you'd rather play the game as it's meant to be, and that filling that role would be uncomfortable for you? I can understand the difficulty of not being able to find a d&d game, but to join one you wont enjoy just to play doesn't seem like my idea of playing a game you love.
The thing is, the other people he has playing with him are good friends of mine. They helped me brave the worst moments of his campaign last time without "ragequitting" it. I really enjoy playing with them, and as such I'm considering just requesting to be able to play one of the good guys because playing an antagonist would feel too much like playing an NPC, but I'm not sure he'll understand.
It's just not as simple as "If you don't like it, don't go." It really isn't. To my knowledge, not only is there no other game, but it also seems silly to quit purely for the DM when I enjoy being with the somewhere near 5 other people in the campaign.
Point is, unless you think there is some way you can make this fun for yourself, don't do it. I stopped playing because of issues I was having with some of my group and decided to DM instead. If you like these guys but don't want to be DMed by one of them, perhaps you could offer to DM for now? Especially if you do it better, the other players will know what to demand from the current DM if he switches back.
If neither of those are options, just be friends with the guys I guess. I have one friend whom I like to hang out with but can't game with as a fellow PC. He doesn't feel the same, but things worked out after I started DMing my campaign and let our original DM take him and some of the other players.
What area are you in anyway? You wouldn't happen to be anywhere near San Mateo or Santa Clara, California, would you?
-Drillboss
What area are you in anyway? You wouldn't happen to be anywhere near San Mateo or Santa Clara, California, would you?
-Drillboss
Southern Hemisphere, different continent, I'm afraid. Good old "Middle Earth".
Also, I really want to play is the thing. I've been told time and time again that my Ad-Libby DMing sessions are fun as heck, but I don't enjoy it nearly as much as playing. I only ever DMed because I couldn't find any games to play.
And I could find a way to make it fun for myself, but unfortunately I like my other friends too much to make the DM's game divebomb out of the sky in the first session.
The thing is, the other people he has playing with him are good friends of mine. They helped me brave the worst moments of his campaign last time without "ragequitting" it. I really enjoy playing with them, and as such I'm considering just requesting to be able to play one of the good guys because playing an antagonist would feel too much like playing an NPC, but I'm not sure he'll understand.
Just say YES to the DM but precise you'll play as a PC.
In game, YOU, not the DM, play YOUR character
and characters have any right to evolve
So you change your mind. What about letting some religious PC convert you or something so?
If the other players are good friends, they shall understand.
No thanks. It would be much more interesting to be the BBEG as an independent entity, outside of the party, working independently to defeat them in some way for some reason (insert hooks here). Make the DM react to you - right now it sounds like he wants you as a puppet, and that's no good IMO.
I think if you explain this to your friends, if they *are* your friends, and why you don't want to play the way the DM wants you to play, they'll understand.
Just say YES to the DM but precise you'll play as a PC.
In game, YOU, not the DM, play YOUR character
and characters have any right to evolve
So you change your mind. What about letting some religious PC convert you or something so?
If the other players are good friends, they shall understand.
^
you can play his game without being his pawn, and without being a jerkwad
if the DM wants you to BBEG for him secretly, have him give you some general guidelines, like why you turn traitor, is there a BiggerBEG who's got you doing what youre doing, etc, but beyond that, its still your character, and you get to actually play it and make its decisions. that means you get to fill in the blanks.
that said, for story-purposes, its easier to avoid being a jerk to your RL friends if you dont have rest of the party in your backstory, you're the newcomer in-game and don't have history with the other character, so it's less heinous that you'd turn on them. also, once your character is a badguy, making them a 'tragic villain' can ease OOC tensions. fiction's loaded with tragic villains, and sometimes they're the characters people love the most. on top of that, if you have a BiggerBEG that your character is answering to, you could have your final showdown with the party be in BiggerBEG's presence so you can redeem yourself and tragicaly meet your fate helping the party defeat the BiggerBEG (folks eat that one up). With the DM wanting you to play a specific kind of character for story purposes, you get the benefit of being able to influence the story once its already going almost as much as the DM does.
honestly having a PC BBEG could make a campaign extremely compelling and dramatic (assuming you're the type who demands great a great story from your D&D games). there's three major problems that come up however.
- your DM might not be up to it. it takes a great DM to make something like this work because of how immensely complex and delicate the social framework surrounding a situation like this, both in and out of character.
- don't make the campaign's story all about you! sure a campaign story my focus on one character a bit more than the others for a while, but on the whole a campaign should focus on *all* the PCs. you turning on the rest of the party may be a focal plot point, but it effects the other characters as much as you. maybe someone in the party looked up to you as a mentor, maybe one was your oath-brother. Perhaps one was smitten with you, or on the flipside is full of murderous rage towards you for your betrayal and the other party members have to keep him in check. Maybe your motivation for turning on the party has something to do with another party member's past, or some evil force could have turned another character against the party and failed. there's all sorts of ways to make the story about the GROUP instead of just the one character. some of them you can figure out well ahead of time, other ways are wholly dependent on how the other people at your table choose to play their characters.
- you might end up spending a great deal of time sitting around. i dont mean the players as a whole, i mean specifically you. once you 'turn evil' and break it off with the party, your character probably won't be involved in a lot of the action personally. this one can easily be exacerbated trying to solve problem #2, but you can have both problems 2 and 3 going strong at the same time. my advice is have a secondary support character ready to fill in after your main character leaves, and when the major character isnt involved have some idea of where he is and what he's doing.
of course, you and the other folks at your table could be the kind of players who like to just kick in doors, kill monsters, and get some loot, in which case i just did a lot of typing for no reason
(although door-kicking, face-smashing, loot-grabbing IS always a fun time)The thing is, the other people he has playing with him are good friends of mine. They helped me brave the worst moments of his campaign last time without "ragequitting" it. I really enjoy playing with them, and as such I'm considering just requesting to be able to play one of the good guys because playing an antagonist would feel too much like playing an NPC, but I'm not sure he'll understand.
It's just not as simple as "If you don't like it, don't go." It really isn't. To my knowledge, not only is there no other game, but it also seems silly to quit purely for the DM when I enjoy being with the somewhere near 5 other people in the campaign.
I dont know how good the group is about not-metagaming, but if they are really good at it they can know OOC, and not play on it within the game. I will admit I have met a good number of players, and can only say with above 95% certainty that only about 3 of them could completely separate IC and OoC knowledge.
My old DM caught up with me on MSN recently saying he was starting a game in town. Now, I'd probably prefer a different person's game just due to our stylistic clashes, or continue working on my Homebrewed System, but he seemed genuinely eager to have me play again.
The thing is, he wants me to be the antagonist. With the party. Secretly. But he doesn't want me to be subtle, he wants me to backstab the party a bit. I think this isn't a very good idea for making the players very happy with one another OOC. Now, the idea immediately sprung to mind of a Eladrin Feylock who just likes messing with people to see what their limits are (read: "see what it takes to make them break"), but I still don't like the idea of playing for the first time in a year and not really getting to play.
The only thing is, I've been looking for a game for about the entirety of that year. Not a single person in my (Rather large) area is advertising a game in real life nor online, and I haven't managed to get down to the local hobby store (As local as an hour away can be) to ask if they know of anyone.
So my options are play the game presented to me as the DM's pawn, act like a jerkwad evil dude to get back for the times he screwed us over in the previous campaigns ("DM vs Players is the way it is meant to be" my ass) or just say "No thank you" and go back to my vain search for a game.
Help?
Well as long as you get exp for it...I say go with it. But dont expose your character. The DM wants a bit of Back Stabbing, fine.
- When the PCs return to town laden with wealth, hire a thug to rob one while he is seperated from the group and then come to his rescue.
- If the Villain gets away with the loot (previous), kill the guy later and slip a piece of the treasure that the victim PC will recognise into the pay comming from a Patron.
- If you are out in the Dungeon with the Party, and triggering a trap will spare you and kill your companion, do so.
There is a lot of nasty that can be done without sticking the knife in someone's back directly.
Red flags go up when you say that you had problems with the previous game you played in with him. Like someone else mentioned. Maybe its a set up. By the dm or the whole group, sometimes people can be jerks like that.
It wouldn't matter if the evil character got experience eventually either the good party or the evil backstabber are going to have to go. I bet seeing as you are the solitary bad guy its going to be your character.
It really seems very similar to the op mentioning the dm vs pcs he had problems with before. Its just that the dm is using a fellow pc to hinder the remainder of the group. And what happens if the other pcs don't care for the pvp style of play and blame you. You'll get the blame and the dm, considering he didn't get along with you previously, get to make you the villian and possibly have your friends upset with you.
So agree play as the BBEG, but let the other players in on it secretly while keeping the DM in the dark. Then have them all "spontaneously" decide to join you in your evil plan to take over the world/hijack a bus of nuns/kick puppies or whatever. Watch DM squirm as his carefully laid out plans go completely awry. If you all plan it right, you would actually be playing, only in an evil campaign. At worst, it would be a good story to tell your next gaming group.
Is it bad that this is totally something my friends would do without my planning? The closest of my friends (among them, at least) is already aware of what the DM is intending for me, because I trust him with that information, and at least two of the others play to "kill things and be awesome", and what better way then joining the badguy?
Of course, I will not deny that I love roleplay and good storytelling, but if the campaign is devoid of that, I may as well find a way for everyone to have fun in another way, right?
The thing is, the other people he has playing with him are good friends of mine. They helped me brave the worst moments of his campaign last time without "ragequitting" it. I really enjoy playing with them...
This is enough of a reason to say no. End of story.
So..
Say thanks, but no thanks.
Nearly blew up the party twice (flaming burst crossbow into an oil bath where the fighter was fighting a medusa... no it wasn't kinky we just interupted the medusa's regular bath. Blew up real good. Also same crossbow in the hold of a whaling ship) but still they didn't suspect. It wasn't until the doppleganger was killed by during a dragon fight (he wasn't doing anything heroic he was just low on HP and next to the sorceress that decided to taunt the red dragon) that the party learned the truth.
Good times really.
Is it bad that this is totally something my friends would do without my planning? The closest of my friends (among them, at least) is already aware of what the DM is intending for me, because I trust him with that information, and at least two of the others play to "kill things and be awesome", and what better way then joining the badguy?
Of course, I will not deny that I love roleplay and good storytelling, but if the campaign is devoid of that, I may as well find a way for everyone to have fun in another way, right?
Ultimately, from what I'm reading... it seems like you just want to get back into roleplaying in general. That's all fine and well, but heed the warnings other people have given you. Do you personally get along with this DM?