But if you're trying to get a melee power use with a ranged interval from a thrown weapon, you're out of luck. That's not how it works.
If you want to specialize in throwing things, you generally want to be a ranger.
That does make sense, but then why switch them from dexterity base to strength when all of the ranged powers add dexterity damage? Unless of course you just don't want them to be used by anyone other than a fighter who notices that there is a dragon and decides hey I'll throw something.
Remember the Three Basic Rules of 4th Edition D&D (PH, p11):
- Simple Rules, Many Exceptions
- Specific Beats General
- Always Round Down
The Heavy Thrown weapon property (PH, p217) is an example of Basic Rule #2:
A ranged basic attack with a heavy thrown weapon uses your Strength instead of your Dexterity for the attack and damage rolls.
Rogues and Archer Rangers have no reason at all to use Heavy Thrown weapons, as all of their powers are firmly Dex-based. Melee and Beastmaster Rangers, and Fighters, Paladins, and Battle Clerics have Str-based powers - but no Ranged weapon powers beyond the Ranged Basic Attack. Those characters may opt to use Heavy Thrown weapons with a RBA, and in doing so may substitute their Strength bonus for Dexterity on the attack and damage rolls.
There are times when ranged attacks are all you're going to get. Even at the reduced range for thrown weapons (less of an issue with the Distance enhancement from Martial Power), a Ranged Basic Attack is better than no attack at all!
Secondly, is the dagger so much more wonderful that it is treated differently for the rogue? Is the bow and the dagger really the only way to go? Why does the rogue get to apply feats to the dagger while others can't do the same thing to their thrown weapons if they make sense to do so? I understand the three rules you have just mentioned and I understand the ease they make for the game. They fairly put you into prefabricated roles with limited ability to play outside of them. A rogue is a striker, he needs to be able to fire from a distance like the ranger and the warlock because he is a little more delicate than a fighter. Consequently, we give the rogue the ability to use the dagger. But, why not limit him to the crossbow or sling? We also only want the ranger to use a bow or go in close, but we do not want a mixture in the sense of thrown weapons. We are limiting the bow to the ranger class. Great then take out the thrown weapons. If a fighter is that disgruntled, then let him throw his sword or whatever. He'll actually do more damage if he hits. I guess what I'm saying is I understand the logic, but I don't understand the reasoning in even creating the problem by putting thrown weapons in, in the first place. If they are going to be in why are they the only weapons that can't do anything. And let's be honest, who is really going to use a throwing axe in melee instead of a battle axe.
Remember the Three Basic Rules of 4th
There are times when ranged attacks are all you're going to get. Even at the reduced range for thrown weapons (less of an issue with the Distance enhancement from Martial Power), a Ranged Basic Attack is better than no attack at all!
So throw your magical sword and take the negatives. It'll still do more damage if it hits. Once again why even create heavy thrown weapons as they are the only weapons in the game which do not get to be used to do things.
So throw your magical sword and take the negatives. It'll still do more damage if it hits.
Where are the rules covering throwing of stuff not meant to be thrown? As far as I can see, throwing your magical sword isn't possible at all, so there's no alternative. Also, that's a pretty big 'if' - bonuses to the attack roll are considered among the most valuable in 4.0, so penalties to it would logically be seen as one of the most devastating, easily outweighing the higher damage at least for the first levels.
Once again why even create heavy thrown weapons as they are the only weapons in the game which do not get to be used to do things.
They do get used - as secondary weapons of high strength non-ranged classes that can't close in to melee.
Where are the rules covering throwing of stuff not meant to be thrown? As far as I can see, throwing your magical sword isn't possible at all, so there's no alternative. Also, that's a pretty big 'if' - bonuses to the attack roll are considered among the most valuable in 4.0, so penalties to it would logically be seen as one of the most devastating, easily outweighing the higher damage at least for the first levels.
A sword would be considered an improvised thrown weapon -- no proficiency bonus, its enhancement bonus wouldn't apply, it has limited range, and it does 1d4 damage. A magic sword doesn't come back when thrown: that's a property of throwing weapons that are magical, not of any magical weapon that gets thrown.
My dm and I have been discussing this one. So my question is are heavy thrown weapons just for simple attacks or can you use daily or encounter powers with them as they also count as melee weapons.
The kind of weapon you can use with a power is specified by the power. If it has the weapon keyword, you can use any weapon, even your fist. If it says 'melee weapon' you can use a throwable melee weapon, like a hand axe, but the power is still only useable in melee, the 'heavy thrown' property doesn't turn melee powers into ranged powers. If a power says 'ranged weapon,' and has no further restriction, you can use any thrown weapon, light or heavy, with it, as they count as ranged weapons when thrown. The attack line of the power, however, determines the stat used in the attack, not the 'heavy' or 'light' propperty of the weapon, which overrides ranged basic attack, only.
Grab a Javelin (or anything that you can throw)
Throw it at a target you cannot reach in melee, make an attack roll
Mark your target via combat challenge
Profit
Think in the fighter's POV:
Grab a Javelin (or anything that you can throw)
Throw it at a target you cannot reach in melee, make an attack roll
Mark your target via combat challenge
They miss an attack
Profit
Fix'd.
Fix'd.
And yet thier still marked.
But then...
In combat, it’s dangerous to ignore a fighter. Every
time you attack an enemy, whether the attack hits or
misses, you can choose to mark that target. The mark
lasts until the end of your next turn. While a target
is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any
attack that doesn’t include you as a target. A creature
can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark
supersedes a mark that was already in place
As for the question of why they should exist if there were no benefit...
At the very least they are extra options. How many people on these boards complain about the lack of options for characters? Since my first ever character threw javelins as his primary offense, I would be stunned if they weren't an option in the Player's Handbook.
Beyond this basic purpose, we all know there are more classes coming. I won't comment about the rate at which we may see them, because I'm going to buy the books, regardless. It's not hard for me to imagine a future class that focuses on standing back and throwing weapons at foes. Maybe that's how you get the martial controller.
They do get used - as secondary weapons of high strength non-ranged classes that can't close in to melee.
This, heavy thrown weapons are mostly for backup. There are a few powers that let you use them, but mostly, it's just so the fighter can still attack the flying creature.
Check it out in the AV and you will see why.
Where are the rules covering throwing of stuff not meant to be thrown? As far as I can see, throwing your magical sword isn't possible at all, so there's no alternative.
Just like to point out the "Dwarven throwers" from AV p.133
But besides that, there is nothing that I know of.
A sword would be considered an improvised thrown weapon
I'm doubtful.
Improvised ranged weapons have a listed weight limit of 1 lb.
The only "non-throwable" weapons that fit that criteria is the katar, spiked gauntlet and parrying dagger...But meh. I'd let that one fly personally.
I'm doubtful.
Improvised ranged weapons have a listed weight limit of 1 lb.
The only "non-throwable" weapons that fit that criteria is the katar, spiked gauntlet and parrying dagger...But meh. I'd let that one fly personally.
Can you throw a longsword? Check. Does it suck as a thrown weapon? Check. 1 lb. isn't a limit; it's a guideline. The relevant rules text says, "anything you happen to pick up." Though considering the range, I suppose "anything you can throw 50 feet" is a reasonable interpretation. In any case, I wouldn't stop a character from throwing a longsword; I would just make it a crappy option. Sometimes bad options are better than no options, right? :D
But...But thats HERESY !! :D
Well like I said, as a DM I'd let my players throw stuff around.
It's not like it causes rifts in the space-time continuum and collapses the game.
But by RAW I see that as an intended limitation, not a "guideline".
A heavier item will be too ineffective in accuracy and to get the momentum going, a lighter item wont be able to get significant impact.
Throwing a standard poker card for example, is unlikely to break the skin, and at best it would yield a small cut (maybe if it gets in the targets eye it could be effective.)
But with some common sense the 1 lb limit does feel a bit small.
I'd be more worried about aerodynamics than weight really, and that makes a longsword a much better "throwing weapon" than a barstool.
objects > 1lb = heavy thrown
Thrown sword: heavy thrown, +0 proficiency, range 3/6
at least that's what i'd do.
But it might be a little confusing since "improvised ranged weapons" do not really have the light/heavy thrown weapon properties.
If they did, a thrown sword would work like a handaxe and do its full damage dice and also imply it to have full profency bonus.
Calling it light/heavy projectile would avoid confusion.
Other than that I'm sure it would be a fine rule
objects < 1lb = light thrown
objects > 1lb = heavy thrown
Thrown sword: heavy thrown, +0 proficiency, range 3/6
at least that's what i'd do.
Sounds good to me; I would make sure to specify that the base damage is 1d4 since it's still an improvised weapon.
All fighters need a +1 Grasping Javelin.
Check it out in the AV and you will see why.
I think my paragon tier fighter would be pretty disappointed if this were given out as loot.