help deciding on a new character (ECL 15) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

help deciding on a new character (ECL 15)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
reis
May 11, 2008 23:57:49 Alright so, I need some help deciding what character to optimize for my next one in my current campaign. The DM is throwing fairly challenging stuff at us lately and I feel kinda like I'm not pulling as much weight as I could be for my skill level. The Campaign is very combat heavy and RP light which isn't my favorite, but its the way things are for now so I'm gonna roll with it.

Setting is FR. current ECL is 14, however I will probably stick around with my current character until I hit 15 so I can start my new PC at that level. Pretty much all WOTC books are allowed, except stuff that obviously doesn't belong in FR like eberron stuff or diety-specific stuff from other settings.

Right now I am playing an "Honest Fochlucan", a Bard1/Druid4/Green Whisperer3/Spelldancer2/Fochluchan Lyrist4. This character is fairly fun and seems to do OK in combat, but is not very optimal for what we need.

The other party members are:

a Elf Fighter/Swordsage/Champion of Corellon/Dervish. This guy is the best tank we have right now and does heavy melee damage in the neighborhood of 300 points in a good round. I would like my new character to either be able to buff this guy, or support him as a second heavy tank.

A human Wizard14, enchantment specialist. Has a eclectic spell selection, lately I have been steering him to taking crowd control spells so he can try to semi-fill the "god" role. He's got reverse gravity, Acid fog, wall of force, freezing fog, finger of death, limited wish, etc etc

A human cleric/eye of Horus-Re (following the mulhorondi pantheon). Great healer and buffer, can also turn most undead directly to dust. Has DMM:persist.

A human Dragon Shaman 13. The weakest link in the party by far...he tries to tank but has bad AC, and tries to do damage but his breath weapon sucks and tries to stay in the fight but has almost no movement options. His only upsides are his auras and the prismatic burst enhancement on his sword, which occasionally goes off and does some decent damage or kills it outright. To be honest we are thinking about sitting down with this guy and asking him to play a different character.

So what I was thinking is that we need more tanking or support thereof. Options I was looking at are as follows:

1. a (straight) druid15 or druid5/Master of many forms many forms10, focusing on wild shaping. Focus of MoMF is on being the tank, with dire tortoise form I can get to like, 50+ AC i think and just run around trampling stuff. Other good forms would be sun giant for rock throwing and "hulk smash" or Grey Linnorm for flying and just being generally good. I'm sure a silly grappler form is accessible as well but haven't looked into it really yet. Going straight druid15 nets accss to less badass forms than MoMF but would give me up to 8th level druid spells which is probably more powerful at this point overall. I would be able to support the dervish in tanking and try to protect the cleric and wizard.

2. some kind of spiked chain wielding battlefield control tank. Probably using knight and crusader, exotic weapon master levels along with feats like stand still and robilar's gambit and combat reflexes, and enlarge person, powerful build and a huge spiked chain etc to set up a zone around him where he hits you hard and makes it hard for you to get past/away from him without getting hit even harder. I would be able to tank some and offer great melee support, in a different way than the wildshape druid but still effective.

3. A gish, probably using wizard, human paragon, crusader, and spellsword as entry into Jade Phoenix Mage. Probably trying to fill a "god" role with spellcasting and then wade into melee using Arcane Strike to mop up the remaining opposition. As well, I could buff the dervish very effectively and support the entire party using white raven and devoted spirit maneuvers. Downside is, I probably wouldn't tank so well unless I abused polymorph cheese.

your comments are appreciated!
#2
shadowshimmer
May 12, 2008 6:14:12 Half-Orc Barb or Dwarf Fighter have always made good tanks for me.
#3
black_kitten
May 12, 2008 6:51:09 You'll start to miss an expert, and something to do Area of Effect (AoE) damage with or at least reach others at a distance consistently. You need someone to keep your Dragon Shaman alive and usefull. You have enhancement covered, so that's not really a problem and kindda rules out a Bard added.

Rather than making a second tank, you could probably go off better with an alternative character that can boost the original set. Perhaps one of these:
- A warmage would take care of AoE damage and damage from afar. He doesn't bring buffing to the table, but a number of the tank buffs currently spent on you can be relocated to the Dragon Shaman.
- A normal Wizard prepping to move to the Archmage class can likely provide both the Aoe and range damage, and enjoy a healthy pool of buffs for the Dragon Shaman.
- A Rogue/Mage will loose mage power, but will increase his abilities as an expert, filling two niches at once.
- A ranger looses the buffing power of the wizard, but will allow both the expert niche as the range niche to be filled with some more disversity.
- A cleric with the Zen Archery feat could do something similar.
- A druid could take up both buffing as well as tanking, but if you make the Dragon Shaman into a capable tank, you won't need to tank and can focus on tactics or damage.

I would say that if you manage to overcome the Dragon Shaman's weaknesses somehow, you could make 1 character count for 2 and that's always worth more than just having 1 renewed powerful character.

Oh, and D&D isn't all about combat ;)
#4
shaggy_shaggs
May 12, 2008 7:31:54 Hmmm, your group is pretty starved for skill points. You look like you've got plenty of tanks, though if you need to take the heat off them you could do it with illusions and mind-control rather than needing to add yet more real tanks. The cleric having a bit more advance knowledge of what defensive buffs to pack via divination or mundane spying could be a big help, too. How about a Beguiler 5/Mindbender 1/Unseen Seer 9?

Normally I'd rather take that in a direction leading to Beguiler 5/Unseen Seer 8/Mage of the Arcane Order 7, but it looks like you should have enough spellcasting versatility available in the group that you won't need the spellpool access, and those MotAO levels would hurt your skills significantly.
#5
toastedamphibian
May 13, 2008 18:31:51 You have a great tank, who lacks spell casting
A self buffing Cleric
A shaman that wants to tank but dosnt have the stats.

Have you considered a War Weaver?
You can stack magical effects on the tank, add arcane buffs on top of the cleric, and make the shaman usefull in the process.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 reis May 11, 2008 23:57:49	Alright so, I need some help deciding what character to optimize for my next one in my current campaign. The DM is throwing fairly challenging stuff at us lately and I feel kinda like I'm not pulling as much weight as I could be for my skill level. The Campaign is very combat heavy and RP light which isn't my favorite, but its the way things are for now so I'm gonna roll with it. Setting is FR. current ECL is 14, however I will probably stick around with my current character until I hit 15 so I can start my new PC at that level. Pretty much all WOTC books are allowed, except stuff that obviously doesn't belong in FR like eberron stuff or diety-specific stuff from other settings. Right now I am playing an "Honest Fochlucan", a Bard1/Druid4/Green Whisperer3/Spelldancer2/Fochluchan Lyrist4. This character is fairly fun and seems to do OK in combat, but is not very optimal for what we need. The other party members are: a Elf Fighter/Swordsage/Champion of Corellon/Dervish. This guy is the best tank we have right now and does heavy melee damage in the neighborhood of 300 points in a good round. I would like my new character to either be able to buff this guy, or support him as a second heavy tank. A human Wizard14, enchantment specialist. Has a eclectic spell selection, lately I have been steering him to taking crowd control spells so he can try to semi-fill the "god" role. He's got reverse gravity, Acid fog, wall of force, freezing fog, finger of death, limited wish, etc etc A human cleric/eye of Horus-Re (following the mulhorondi pantheon). Great healer and buffer, can also turn most undead directly to dust. Has DMM:persist. A human Dragon Shaman 13. The weakest link in the party by far...he tries to tank but has bad AC, and tries to do damage but his breath weapon sucks and tries to stay in the fight but has almost no movement options. His only upsides are his auras and the prismatic burst enhancement on his sword, which occasionally goes off and does some decent damage or kills it outright. To be honest we are thinking about sitting down with this guy and asking him to play a different character. So what I was thinking is that we need more tanking or support thereof. Options I was looking at are as follows: 1. a (straight) druid15 or druid5/Master of many forms many forms10, focusing on wild shaping. Focus of MoMF is on being the tank, with dire tortoise form I can get to like, 50+ AC i think and just run around trampling stuff. Other good forms would be sun giant for rock throwing and "hulk smash" or Grey Linnorm for flying and just being generally good. I'm sure a silly grappler form is accessible as well but haven't looked into it really yet. Going straight druid15 nets accss to less badass forms than MoMF but would give me up to 8th level druid spells which is probably more powerful at this point overall. I would be able to support the dervish in tanking and try to protect the cleric and wizard. 2. some kind of spiked chain wielding battlefield control tank. Probably using knight and crusader, exotic weapon master levels along with feats like stand still and robilar's gambit and combat reflexes, and enlarge person, powerful build and a huge spiked chain etc to set up a zone around him where he hits you hard and makes it hard for you to get past/away from him without getting hit even harder. I would be able to tank some and offer great melee support, in a different way than the wildshape druid but still effective. 3. A gish, probably using wizard, human paragon, crusader, and spellsword as entry into Jade Phoenix Mage. Probably trying to fill a "god" role with spellcasting and then wade into melee using Arcane Strike to mop up the remaining opposition. As well, I could buff the dervish very effectively and support the entire party using white raven and devoted spirit maneuvers. Downside is, I probably wouldn't tank so well unless I abused polymorph cheese. your comments are appreciated!
#2 shadowshimmer May 12, 2008 6:14:12	Half-Orc Barb or Dwarf Fighter have always made good tanks for me.
#3 black_kitten May 12, 2008 6:51:09	You'll start to miss an expert, and something to do Area of Effect (AoE) damage with or at least reach others at a distance consistently. You need someone to keep your Dragon Shaman alive and usefull. You have enhancement covered, so that's not really a problem and kindda rules out a Bard added. Rather than making a second tank, you could probably go off better with an alternative character that can boost the original set. Perhaps one of these: - A warmage would take care of AoE damage and damage from afar. He doesn't bring buffing to the table, but a number of the tank buffs currently spent on you can be relocated to the Dragon Shaman. - A normal Wizard prepping to move to the Archmage class can likely provide both the Aoe and range damage, and enjoy a healthy pool of buffs for the Dragon Shaman. - A Rogue/Mage will loose mage power, but will increase his abilities as an expert, filling two niches at once. - A ranger looses the buffing power of the wizard, but will allow both the expert niche as the range niche to be filled with some more disversity. - A cleric with the Zen Archery feat could do something similar. - A druid could take up both buffing as well as tanking, but if you make the Dragon Shaman into a capable tank, you won't need to tank and can focus on tactics or damage. I would say that if you manage to overcome the Dragon Shaman's weaknesses somehow, you could make 1 character count for 2 and that's always worth more than just having 1 renewed powerful character. Oh, and D&D isn't all about combat ;)
#4 shaggy_shaggs May 12, 2008 7:31:54	Hmmm, your group is pretty starved for skill points. You look like you've got plenty of tanks, though if you need to take the heat off them you could do it with illusions and mind-control rather than needing to add yet more real tanks. The cleric having a bit more advance knowledge of what defensive buffs to pack via divination or mundane spying could be a big help, too. How about a Beguiler 5/Mindbender 1/Unseen Seer 9? Normally I'd rather take that in a direction leading to Beguiler 5/Unseen Seer 8/Mage of the Arcane Order 7, but it looks like you should have enough spellcasting versatility available in the group that you won't need the spellpool access, and those MotAO levels would hurt your skills significantly.
#5 toastedamphibian May 13, 2008 18:31:51	You have a great tank, who lacks spell casting A self buffing Cleric A shaman that wants to tank but dosnt have the stats. Have you considered a War Weaver? You can stack magical effects on the tank, add arcane buffs on top of the cleric, and make the shaman usefull in the process.