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Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Whutinir Jan 05, 2014 14:21:56	Hello I am currently playing in a d&d campaign with my friends. I am a dragonborn paladin of bahamut who is lawful good. My party consists of a Mage, a cleric, a necromancer who is chaotic evil, a human fighter who is lawful good , and myself. My DM was bahamut for a bit and told my character to deal with the necromancer until it gets way out of hand. The fighter and I are level 2 and everyone else is lvl 3 for some reason. I have an avenging paladin build who is quite strong in all stats. I have a conceal alignment power now. There has been some talk of the necromancer hiring my character a hooker specifically to make me fall. Is there a way I can prevent falling due to his desire to screw with me or will I have to fall and get my powers back at a later date?
#2 iserith Jan 05, 2014 17:32:11	A DM who sows the seeds of conflict within the party such that you'd come to a public forum to ask for help to avoid losing your character's class features as a result of another player? Wow. This sounds like a put-on and I'm not sure what edition you play as I don't know of any necromancer class in 4e. An avenging paladin does comes from 4e, so good news if you're playing it - Alignment mechanics don't matter one whit in 4e, so have all the hookers you like. You won't lose your class features. Next, you may benefit (and your group may benefit) from the link in my signature, "11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer," especially the bits about not harming other players' characters.
#3 crimsyn Jan 05, 2014 18:34:54	First, what edition are you playing? In 4e, there's nothing mechanical that really hinges on alignment, so feel free to flaunt it without fear of losing powers. Also, 4e is really designed with having everyone at the same level, so that's a problem as well. Secondly, holy crap. Everything about this situation is messed up. I'm not sure I know what you mean by "my DM was Bahamut for a while," but apart from that... D&D isn't a game for players to grief each other to the point where they have to take "conceal alignment" powers to prevent themselves from being dicked around by some jerk. It's a game where you work together to have fun. You need to have a conversation out of game with your players. Everyone needs to read the "11 ways to be a better roleplayer" in Iserith's signature. Tell everyone that you need to have this conversation before the next session. Basically, you need to get on the same page and figure out how you can work together. That doesn't mean you can't have a Paladin and a Necromancer in the same party. It just requires a little more maturity than conspiring to hire the Paladin a hooker to make him lose his powers. A bit of give and take, a bit of working with each other to find reasons why your characters CAN work together instead of reasons why you can't, and a bit of metagaming to preserve unity. Finally, no one can "make" you fall. You are in control of your characters' actions at all times, even if someone rolls a really good bluff roll against you. "I'm not a jerk, my character is a jerk" is not a valid excuse. It's the equivalent of Jeff Dunham saying "I'm not a racist, the puppet is a racist" when we can all see his hand up the puppet's ass.
#4 DaBeerds Jan 05, 2014 18:42:33	Sounds like 3.5e (although the necromancer class does not come from any sourcebook I have). And all I can think to do is give your DM a solid Gibbs Slap (NCIS reference) for sowing the seeds of discord. You need to have a discussion with your DM and probably the player of the necromancer. By the RAW, the DM does have the authority to change your character's alignment if the DM sees fit, but NOT for one infraction DMG page 134 (pay close attention to "Time Requirements": DM is in Control: You control alignment changes, not the players. If a player says, “My neutral good character becomes chaotic good,” the appropriate response from you is “Prove it.” Actions dictate alignment, not statements of intent by players. Alignment Change Is Gradual: Changes in alignment should not be drastic. Usually, a character changes alignment only one step at a time—from lawful evil to lawful neutral, for example, and not directly to neutral good. A character on her way to adopting another alignment might have other alignments during the transition to the final alignment. Time Requirements: Changing alignment usually takes time. Changes of heart are rarely sudden (although they can be). What you want to avoid is a player changing her character’s alignment to evil to use an evil artifact properly and then changing it right back when she’s done. Alignments aren’t garments you can take off and put on casually. Require an interval of at least a week of game time between alignment changes. Indecisiveness Indicates Neutrality: Wishy-washy characters should just be neutral. If a character changes alignment over and over again during a campaign, what’s really happened is that the character hasn’t made a choice, and thus she is neutral.
#5 Krusk Jan 06, 2014 16:37:25	powers, avenging paladin and dragonborn made this sound like 4e to me. If so, you are in luck because in 4e paladins cannot fall. Flip him the bird, enjoy the hooker, and hire a few of your own to join in. If its 3.5, you fell into a trap. Don't play a paladin, because this happens the vast majority of times. You especially don't play a paladin with a DM/group you haven't played with before. If you want to play the paladin concept, instead play a cleric. You will be more effective at what you want your paladin to do (hit dudes with sticks and holy fire) and you can do all the cool stuff that helps when hitting dudes with holy sticks isn't relavent. Real solution though? Your DM sounds like a tool. Have a conversation with them, and explain that they are making the game unfun for you. Explain how you aren't really into the idea of your paladin falling, and you'd rather not have to deal with alignment traps. If he stops, awesome. If not, weight the costs of dealing with that sort of BS against the benefits of not playing a game at all.
#6 thespaceinvader Jan 07, 2014 5:45:31	TALK to your group. Do not try to fix out-of-game problems (the DM being a jerk) with in-game solutions, it doesn't work.
#7 Scatterbrained Jan 08, 2014 14:39:19	Whutinir wrote:
#8 Krusk Jan 09, 2014 12:44:19	scatter, I think the DM said "Deal with it" in the sense of "Get over it" not in the sense of "Stop him".

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Whutinir

Jan 05, 2014 14:21:56

Hello I am currently playing in a d&d campaign with my friends. I am a dragonborn paladin of bahamut who is lawful good. My party consists of a Mage, a cleric, a necromancer who is chaotic evil, a human fighter who is lawful good , and myself. My DM was bahamut for a bit and told my character to deal with the necromancer until it gets way out of hand. The fighter and I are level 2 and everyone else is lvl 3 for some reason. I have an avenging paladin build who is quite strong in all stats. I have a conceal alignment power now. There has been some talk of the necromancer hiring my character a hooker specifically to make me fall. Is there a way I can prevent falling due to his desire to screw with me or will I have to fall and get my powers back at a later date?

iserith

Jan 05, 2014 17:32:11

A DM who sows the seeds of conflict within the party such that you'd come to a public forum to ask for help to avoid losing your character's class features as a result of another player? Wow. This sounds like a put-on and I'm not sure what edition you play as I don't know of any necromancer class in 4e. An avenging paladin does comes from 4e, so good news if you're playing it - Alignment mechanics don't matter one whit in 4e, so have all the hookers you like. You won't lose your class features.

Next, you may benefit (and your group may benefit) from the link in my signature, "11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer," especially the bits about not harming other players' characters.

crimsyn

Jan 05, 2014 18:34:54

First, what edition are you playing? In 4e, there's nothing mechanical that really hinges on alignment, so feel free to flaunt it without fear of losing powers. Also, 4e is really designed with having everyone at the same level, so that's a problem as well.

Secondly, holy crap. Everything about this situation is messed up. I'm not sure I know what you mean by "my DM was Bahamut for a while," but apart from that...

D&D isn't a game for players to grief each other to the point where they have to take "conceal alignment" powers to prevent themselves from being dicked around by some jerk*. It's a game where you work together to have fun.

You need to have a conversation out of game with your players. Everyone needs to read the "11 ways to be a better roleplayer" in Iserith's signature. Tell everyone that you need to have this conversation before the next session.

Basically, you need to get on the same page and figure out how you can work together. That doesn't mean you can't have a Paladin and a Necromancer in the same party. It just requires a little more maturity than conspiring to hire the Paladin a hooker to make him lose his powers. A bit of give and take, a bit of working with each other to find reasons why your characters CAN work together instead of reasons why you can't, and a bit of metagaming to preserve unity.

Finally, no one can "make" you fall. You are in control of your characters' actions at all times, even if someone rolls a really good bluff roll against you.

*"I'm not a jerk, my character is a jerk" is not a valid excuse. It's the equivalent of Jeff Dunham saying "I'm not a racist, the puppet is a racist" when we can all see his hand up the puppet's ass.

DaBeerds

Jan 05, 2014 18:42:33

Sounds like 3.5e (although the necromancer class does not come from any sourcebook I have). And all I can think to do is give your DM a solid Gibbs Slap (NCIS reference) for sowing the seeds of discord.

You need to have a discussion with your DM and probably the player of the necromancer. By the RAW, the DM does have the authority to change your character's alignment if the DM sees fit, but NOT for one infraction DMG page 134 (pay close attention to "Time Requirements":

DM is in Control: You control alignment changes, not the
players. If a player says, “My neutral good character becomes
chaotic good,” the appropriate response from you is “Prove it.”
Actions dictate alignment, not statements of intent by players.
Alignment Change Is Gradual: Changes in alignment should
not be drastic. Usually, a character changes alignment only one
step at a time—from lawful evil to lawful neutral, for example,
and not directly to neutral good. A character on her way to adopting
another alignment might have other alignments during the
transition to the final alignment.
Time Requirements: Changing alignment usually takes time.
Changes of heart are rarely sudden (although they can be). What
you want to avoid is a player changing her character’s alignment to
evil to use an evil artifact properly and then changing it right back
when she’s done. Alignments aren’t garments you can take off and
put on casually. Require an interval of at least a week of game time
between alignment changes.
Indecisiveness Indicates Neutrality: Wishy-washy characters
should just be neutral. If a character changes alignment over
and over again during a campaign, what’s really happened is that
the character hasn’t made a choice, and thus she is neutral.

Krusk

Jan 06, 2014 16:37:25

powers, avenging paladin and dragonborn made this sound like 4e to me. If so, you are in luck because in 4e paladins cannot fall. Flip him the bird, enjoy the hooker, and hire a few of your own to join in.

If its 3.5, you fell into a trap. Don't play a paladin, because this happens the vast majority of times. You especially don't play a paladin with a DM/group you haven't played with before. If you want to play the paladin concept, instead play a cleric. You will be more effective at what you want your paladin to do (hit dudes with sticks and holy fire) and you can do all the cool stuff that helps when hitting dudes with holy sticks isn't relavent.

Real solution though? Your DM sounds like a tool. Have a conversation with them, and explain that they are making the game unfun for you. Explain how you aren't really into the idea of your paladin falling, and you'd rather not have to deal with alignment traps. If he stops, awesome. If not, weight the costs of dealing with that sort of BS against the benefits of not playing a game at all.

thespaceinvader

Jan 07, 2014 5:45:31

TALK to your group. Do not try to fix out-of-game problems (the DM being a jerk) with in-game solutions, it doesn't work.

Scatterbrained

Jan 08, 2014 14:39:19

Whutinir wrote:

Krusk

Jan 09, 2014 12:44:19

scatter, I think the DM said "Deal with it" in the sense of "Get over it" not in the sense of "Stop him".