Help with an issue with PC vs. PC Conflict

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

natanax

Oct 15, 2008 14:29:46
The longest running game in my group is an Episodic Style game that sort of ends then starts again every year or so with the same characters and a linked continuity. In the last episode one of the party members sold the group up the river, it made for a good plot point but left some of us feeling raw, he then had to leave the gaming group due to non game related issues. Anyway, he is now rejoining and we're currently playing said episodic game, he is using the same traitorous character as last time and the betrayed parties are not liable to trust him ever again and this might make roleplaying difficult and possibly a little too tense.

Does anyone have any hints on how to handle this?
#2

entropy_judge

Oct 15, 2008 14:50:26
If the rest of the group isn't comfortable with him, the traitor character needs to leave - either killed off or made an NPC, and the player needs to get a different character. If the player is part of the problem, then you all will need to get together and have a heart-to-heart talk about your issues.
#3

natanax

Oct 15, 2008 15:30:50
The main problem is the GM is quite lase fair (sp?) and likes the character in question, where as myself and a few other players consider PC betrayal one of the biggest sins in gaming. As far as actual numbers go its like this...

2 Players really hate Player Betrayal
2 Players find it fun/interesting
1 Player finds it acceptable as long as it fits the game
2 Players don't care

The other problem is we're all friends outside of the game so we can't just ask someone to stop playing.
#4

leowulf

Oct 15, 2008 15:39:48
The main problem is the GM is quite lase fair (sp?) where as myself and a few other players consider PC betrayal one of the biggest sins in gaming. As far as actual numbers go its like this...

2 Players really hate Player Betrayal
2 Players find it fun/interesting
1 Player finds it acceptable as long as it fits the game
2 Players don't care

It sounds like the best thing to do is have all 7 talk it out. Replace whatever you want with "Player Betrayal," and it's easy to see that if anyone is uncomfortable with an aspect of the game, then that aspect should be changed. A person's comfort is more important than an easily changed plot point. But if the majority of players really want it (whatever "it" is, from PvP to what-have-you), then the minority could to along if they can tolerate it, or if it's intolerable to them, they could sit out this episode. I personally despise PvP and would rather sit it out than have to endure it, but your group consensus might be different.

It should be noted that PvP, if it is what the majority of the group wants, assumes that the PC's will respond in character to whatever happens, including unpleasant actions by an NPC or PC betrayer; essentially it makes all players treat each other as they would treat NPC's, which while interesting to some, does not make for positive group dynamics.
#5

natanax

Oct 15, 2008 15:42:43
It looks like the issue isn't going to be resolved easily then...

We did talk it out, that's how I know the numbers are what they are. We can't reach a consensus. I just want to know if anyone has any hints on how to, I dunno, deal with it better.
#6

oggy_ben_doggy

Oct 15, 2008 16:11:15
One way is to retcon in a reason for the betrayal. maybe it was a doppleganger, maybe he was magically controlled, it was his evil twin, etc.

why did the player do it? for money? for laughs?
#7

johnthedm7000

Oct 15, 2008 18:31:28
Why did it leave you guys feeling raw? Did you feel that the player did it for out of character reasons or just to be a jerk? Did you not enjoy the resulting plot complication? Or is it just an aversion to inter-party conflict?

If it's the last of these then that's cool, but I think it'd help to explain to everyone why you don't like inter-PC conflict. If the other people involved not only understand your perspective, but your reasons for holding that perspective, maybe all of you guys can come to some sort of compromise.
#8

leowulf

Oct 15, 2008 19:19:35
One way is to retcon in a reason for the betrayal. maybe it was a doppleganger, maybe he was magically controlled, it was his evil twin, etc.

why did the player do it? for money? for laughs?

The retcon is a beautiful idea, allows him to play the character he's been playing and allows you to play with him without worrying about being betrayed again. Unless of course, he wants to play that way again. But if he says that for your sake he won't do it again then you should give him the benefit of the doubt. Friendship is bigger than one mistake, or one intentional betrayal.
#9

shinydice

Oct 15, 2008 21:07:35
Maybe you should ask the others what their characters think of it not themselves. I personally wouldn't like player betrayal but I would be fine if the DM was fine and everyone else wasn't going to change either. However, if my character knew that this person had sold him into slavery (that's what we are talking about right when you say "up the river") then he or she would probably vow revenge. If your PC and one other PC decide to attack the a-hole on site then why would the other PC's interfere. It may not be to their taste but they wouln't stop your PC (I should think) unless they play some sort of forgiveness freak or just abhor violence anyway (why would someone make a PC who abhored violence?).

Anyway, basically this person decided what would happen to all your characters by selling you. Why can you not decide to kill him? That is just as valid IMHO.

Actually I'm going to change my first statement, I wouldn't go along with it. I would let my character silently fume and then coup de grace him while it was my turn on watch. By the time he reaches for a weapon or anyone else comes to his aid he would probably be dead. If people were angry and couldn't accept what I/my PC had done then I would leave the game. After all selling one into slavery is not far from murdering them on the moral scale of things.
#10

leowulf

Oct 16, 2008 17:31:54
It may not be to their taste but they wouln't stop your PC (I should think) unless they play some sort of forgiveness freak or just abhor violence anyway (why would someone make a PC who abhored violence?).

So they could take the Vow of Nonviolence feat and get +4 to the save DC of any spell or special ability that didn't do lethal damage (or bestow negative levels, etc), and be eligible for the way overpowered Vow of Peace later. Of course, in 4e, you can just declare that any enemy you reduce to 0 HP is unconscious instead of killed, so the nonviolent party member would just be a role-playing thing without a mechanical cost or benefit.