I would love to start a 4e version of Hero Craftsman. I wouldn't call it an upgrade, because I would prefer to see the 3.5 version stick around as well. I think there's room in the community for a contest geared towards each edition.
The hold from the start has been finding eligible judges who felt comfortable enough with the material to fire up the contest.
I'd also not call it an upgrade. The boards are big enough to support both contests. More relevantly I'd be interested in co-ordinating with you, Zherog, when it comes to creating one. When Eldritch_Lord (a potential assister if he's not too busy) and I were discussing it he tossed out he name Paragon Craftsmen for the contest name, and I think it fits.
I'm a somebody now huh? :P
Well, you're noooobody 'til soooomebody loves yooouuuu
Well, you're noooobody 'til soooomebody loves yooouuuu
Aww. Are you proposing?
Aww. Are you proposing?
Yes he is. With a no h'omo clause on the end of it ;)
I sent a PM to zherog saying I'd be willing to help judge/coordinate if needed.
When Eldritch_Lord (a potential assister if he's not too busy) and I were discussing it he tossed out he name Paragon Craftsmen for the contest name, and I think it fits.
1) I shouldn't be too busy to help with this; I'm lagging a little bit on updating the Compendiums because it's an ongoing thing (Bad EL! Bad!) but since the judging and idea-making are one-time per contest I can just set aside some time for doing those.
2) I was suggesting the name Paragon Craftsman because it's kind of an "upgrade to 4e" joke, but I can see a few problems with that. First, it suggests that 4e is a definite upgrade from 3e, which might dissuade some people from participating based on their opinions towards the editions. Second, a Paragon Craftsman contest implies that you'll always be building someone between levels 11 and 20, which would be a bit limiting.
The Master DM Competition handled this by renaming it the Expert DM Competition--equivalent words that didn't imply a directed relationship between the two. Perhaps "Hero Builder" (to go with the Hero Builder's Guidebook) or something along those lines?
'kiss' anyone?
How about Hero Artisan?
I like it. I'd go with that.
If/When you do start this are you gonna allow homebrews?
We've allowed homebrewed material in the past -- we've seen gods, magic items, spells... I think that covers it.
If you do can you guys make a list of allowed classes, because there are a couple good ones, and a couple bad ones...not naming names here though...
If you're asking if we allow things from the Homebrew forum, that answer is no. Any material submitted for the contest must be either from a permitted source book or of your own creation.
We've never actually encountered anybody making their own class (or race) for the contest. I don't know how the judges would react to that, to be honest. Heck, I'm not even sure how I'd react to that...
So is this where we form a shadowy conclave to plan out the details of getting this off the ground?
So is this where we form a shadowy conclave to plan out the details of getting this off the ground?
Here? In public? My friend, methinks you're new to this whole "shady conclave" thing. There have to be scrying wards, ritual sacrifices, and bunches of other things in play first. And pizza, of course; secret evil judges of DOOM do get the munchies occasionally.
Can I assume Eldritch_Lord and Obsidianjaerc are also interested in judging?
I'm willing to serve as coordinator for the first one - again, to lend a bit of continuity to the contest, and help get it off the ground.
So... let's give the current judges a chance to respond and we'll see where we're at in a few days. Then we can begin the brainstorming process via PM among those who will be judging, before getting things fired up!
Can I assume Eldritch_Lord and Obsidianjaerc are also interested in judging?
In my case, you can indeed. Consider this my offer to judge; if there's more behind-the-scenes info I'd need, PM it on over.
So, we're in the "gather judges" phase at the moment. We'll assess where we are in a few days, and move on from there.
Oh, and I like the name Hero Artisan for this contest. Nice, wrecan...
Here's how it basically works in Hero Craftsman... In the public thread, eligible judges post their desire to participate. After a reasonable amount of time has passed, the coordinator sends a PM to all those who expressed interest, and the contest brainstorming begins. We discuss matters such as level, theme, source material, and so on. Once all that is hammered out, the coordinator puts together the first post (I write it in a text file; I don't know how others do it), and then starts the thread, reserving the first two posts - one for the list of entries and the other for a FAQ.
So, we're in the "gather judges" phase at the moment. We'll assess where we are in a few days, and move on from there.
Gotcha. I'll start thinking of ideas for Phase 2, then.
Gotcha. I'll start thinking of ideas for Phase 2, then.
...profit?
...profit?
No, no, no--profit is phase 5.
Phase 1: Volunteer.
Phase 2: Brainstorm.
Phase 3: Judge.
Phase 4: ???
Phase 5: Profit.
No, no, no--profit is phase 5.
Phase 1: Volunteer.
Phase 2: Brainstorm.
Phase 3: Judge.
Phase 4: Blackmail
Phase 5: Profit.
Perhaps?
Perhaps?
No, I'm not susceptible to blackmail, and I would never stoop to such levels.
Bribery, however...let's just say I'm known to have a weakness for good food.
...profit?
I can tell you from LONG experience w/ these competitions that profit will never be part of the process. I can't even get the proffered food bribes to come through...
You'll have to count me out of the eligible judges, though. My group has decided to go w/ Pathfinder, & to a large extent, gaming has died in my town. As such, my non-investment in 4e will likely continue indefinitely.
I can't even get the proffered food bribes to come through...
Well, if you're bowing out, all the more for me then. And I must remind you that I did send your bribes, it's just that FedEx seems to hate you. :D
Although in one case, Mercurius seems to have devoured one of my packages before it even left his house...
(What can I say? Whenever I see something with "Hero Craftsman" in the name that's been sitting for a while, I feel the urge to heckle. So sue me. ;))
Hero Artisan. It's Hero Artisan now.
This is true, but note the thread name.
...
Oh, my bad, you're right. The title says Caftsmen.
Let me rephrase: Whenever I see something within edit distance 2 of "Hero Craftsman." Better? :D
This is true, but note the thread name.
...
Oh, my bad, you're right. The title says Caftsmen.
Let me rephrase: Whenever I see something within edit distance 2 of "Hero Craftsman." Better? :D
It works. :P
It works. :P
Good!
So...how 'bout them judges? ;)
* runs off to send PMs rather than doing his work *
We've allowed homebrewed material in the past -- we've seen gods, magic items, spells... I think that covers it.
If you're asking if we allow things from the Homebrew forum, that answer is no. Any material submitted for the contest must be either from a permitted source book or of your own creation.
We've never actually encountered anybody making their own class (or race) for the contest. I don't know how the judges would react to that, to be honest. Heck, I'm not even sure how I'd react to that...
I know that, if I had been a judge when someone submitted a character with a homebrewed class or race, I'd be very inclined to count off somewhere. Because that's not something covered with the rules we allow. I'm pretty particular about homebrewed magic items in the contest, honestly. If someone is creating some sort of special ability item, I will be very particular in how I score it, and warn against doing so. Using a homebrewed character class or race... well, that's something I'd definitely be very harsh about.
I mean, I've never submitted a homebrew race for the contest, and have jumped through hoops to get a character who fit the flavor but used the rules as written (see Hapsibandro, the psionic gnome).
In this thread, we're working on pulling together a 4e version, which we're going to call Hero Artisan. It's close to coming together. Probably another week to ten days, I would guess.
I can't tell. Is it dead yet?
PC: I hit the horse for 4 damage
DM: The horse keels over, it's dead.
PC: I attack the horse again...
Hero Artisan is in the final proofreading stages. Once the judges find all my typos and remaining 3e lingo from the starting post, we'll be getting the party started.