I am playing a campaign as a half-orc barbarian. My barbarian has an INT of 9 and a WIS of 7. He's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, sure. But my group treat him as if he's mentally handicapped. I'll admit that he's dumb and slow, but his INT is only 9! He's not THAT stupid.
The advice I'm seeking is a way I can use this to my advantage. Is there a way I can somehow show them that I'm not that stupid while also punishing them (for lack of a better word) for assuming I'm so stupid. Basically, I want to trick them or out smart them somehow because of their assumption that I am too stupid.
Knowing my DM, he would be all for helping me with this problem. I might be able to talk him into working this into the campaign
Hopefully that all makes sense.
I've been contemplating this problem but have yet to come up with a good solution. I'm open to any ideas.
I take it with those stats that you're playing 3.5. Rather tough with a low-int Barbarian. You're illiterate, after all. What's your Charisma score? You might not be book smart, or all that wise (tricking your allies who you need to watch your back and possibly getting them angry at you is something a character with a -2 wisdom modifier might do), but you might well be street smart. I'd look into running some sort of confidence scheme.
Note: I actually do not encourage PvP, and it may go down poorly depending on the group. Persue this at your own risk.
Also, I want to point out that I want to trick them but I don't plan to kill them or anything. I just want to teach them a lesson, not hurt them.
How about this: what effect are you going for? What are you willing to trick your compatriots into? Fleecing some gold? Getting them in trouble with the local barmaids? Framing them for murder? Give a target.
But I would ask your DM that after you have your little (and it should be little) revenge, he make a rule that there are no put-downs at the table.
Like (totally pulling stuff out of my... ear) there's some sentient race that hardly anyone in civilized lands has ever heard of, and you know their lore and can identify which clan of them went through here by the tracks they leave in soft ground. Because of your knowledge the party gets some minor assistance from these beings rather than getting in and probably losing a fight.
Grog the barbarian may have a 7 intelligence. How do you as a player have your PC act "stupid" but as a player continue to be as clever as you are able to be? For starters you can be HIGHLY selective when it comes to what your character is stupid about:
"The Blue Zebra Riders are active in Gondwanaland aren't they?" "No! You dolt! They were all wiped out in the Alkaline War. They are the RED Riders now..."
or,
"Gosh. I only have a 7 Intelligence. Maybe instead of saving the Priest's life this round I should be distracted by a pretty flower cuz I'm so stoopid?!"
Nobody at the game table should ever cop an attitude akin to, "Your character shouldn't be able to think of that because he's too dumb." Well, HE, the character, didn't think of it - YOU, the player, did. Other players who insist on trying to treat a low-mental-attribute character as mentally handicapped are being LAZY, just as a player who inisists on trying to treat his own low-mental-attribute character as mentally handicapped is being lazy. When other players do it, however, it's actually worse because that is an attitude at the game table that gets old REALLY fast. It becomes an easy and OBNOXIOUS excuse to be CONSTANTLY annoying to one player at the table.
There should be no need to take petty revenge upon other players or their characters in-game. SAY SOMETHING. Tell the other players that the lame joke wore thin about 5 minutes after it began and they can damn well knock it off. If they persist then you can upbraid the DM and tell HIM to tell the players to knock it the hell off. After that it is STILL not a matter for taking petty revenge in-game - it is a matter of walking away from the game entirely.
Clearly you are irritated by their attitudes. You have good reason to be. Nobody has a RIGHT to be a jerk and act as a fun-sponge for someone else at the table. It doesn't matter what your PC's ability scores are, what his alignment is, etc.
As you might be able to tell, this sort of thing REALLY grates on my nerves, but sinking to their juvenile level is not going to make anything better. It sets the bar for the entire game LOWER, not higher. Some figurative, or perhaps even a little literal cold water in the face is called for. You say the DM is willing to back you up - he can back you up by LAYING DOWN THE LAW, not just by looking the other way while you play silly tricks to get back at them.
Just MHO.
A low-intelligence character is an obvious MECHANICAL limitation upon that character. It is NOT to be seen as a command for the player to play with intentional stupidity or inefficiency. It is in fact a challenge to the roleplaying skills of a PLAYER to have his character exhibit characteristics which might exemplify intellectual limitations but without the player himself otherwise behaving or having his character perform in general as a detriment to the party and the gameplay around the table.
Grog the barbarian may have a 7 intelligence. How do you as a player have your PC act "stupid" but as a player continue to be as clever as you are able to be? For starters you can be HIGHLY selective when it comes to what your character is stupid about:
"The Blue Zebra Riders are active in Gondwanaland aren't they?" "No! You dolt! They were all wiped out in the Alkaline War. They are the RED Riders now..."
or,
"Gosh. I only have a 7 Intelligence. Maybe instead of saving the Priest's life this round I should be distracted by a pretty flower cuz I'm so stoopid?!"
Nobody at the game table should ever cop an attitude akin to, "Your character shouldn't be able to think of that because he's too dumb." Well, HE, the character, didn't think of it - YOU, the player, did. Other players who insist on trying to treat a low-mental-attribute character as mentally handicapped are being LAZY, just as a player who inisists on trying to treat his own low-mental-attribute character as mentally handicapped is being lazy. When other players do it, however, it's actually worse because that is an attitude at the game table that gets old REALLY fast. It becomes an easy and OBNOXIOUS excuse to be CONSTANTLY annoying to one player at the table.
There should be no need to take petty revenge upon other players or their characters in-game. SAY SOMETHING. Tell the other players that the lame joke wore thin about 5 minutes after it began and they can damn well knock it off. If they persist then you can upbraid the DM and tell HIM to tell the players to knock it the hell off. After that it is STILL not a matter for taking petty revenge in-game - it is a matter of walking away from the game entirely.
Clearly you are irritated by their attitudes. You have good reason to be. Nobody has a RIGHT to be a jerk and act as a fun-sponge for someone else at the table. It doesn't matter what your PC's ability scores are, what his alignment is, etc.
As you might be able to tell, this sort of thing REALLY grates on my nerves, but sinking to their juvenile level is not going to make anything better. It sets the bar for the entire game LOWER, not higher. Some figurative, or perhaps even a little literal cold water in the face is called for. You say the DM is willing to back you up - he can back you up by LAYING DOWN THE LAW, not just by looking the other way while you play silly tricks to get back at them.
Just MHO.
You might have a point. It might be a better idea to just say something rather than stoop to their level. I'll talk to my DM and see what he thinks too. But I think just a quick talk before next week's session might be the way to go.
After that, I started asking them about their encumbrance and weight limits and all the gear and treasure they were hauling. For some reason, bags of holding began to become available after that .... hmmm ... ;)
I think I would play on that with my Orc Barb and say things during moments when someone has to stick their head into the dark omnious room.
"Uh, me too stoopid to figure out what to do. You show me by doing. And I will see if I catch on. In da meantime, I will stand at back of party so as not to trip you genusis up."
I had the same issue where a mouthy mage demanded that my cleric had to heal him whenever he requested it so many years ago in orginal D&D.
I said, no I don't..not for free.
If you would be so kind as to make a donation to Ukko, I would be more than glad to heal you.
Needless to say he refused, and I only healed him after he went down, I was good after all.
What many people fail to understand is that they feel they have the right to roleplay their character as they see fit, but don't feel you have the same rights.
Try to put it into perspective for them, make them stand in your shoes for awhile.
instead, just emphasize your characters "not dumb"-ness.
you're a fighter barbarian? and literate? maybe carry around what would translate into the D&D version of Sun Tzu's "The Art of War." Make a point of pulling it out and reading it after setting up camp or while discussing how to take on an imminent combat threat. With your character's base attack and weapon-based feats, you're probably quite the student of tactics, even if you can't recite the history and ideologies of each of the D&D minor gods. Btw, consider making the book have a clever, funny name for D&D - something like "How Not to get Killed: A Discussion of the Finer Points of War"
When something gets explained, and the party starts to try to repeat it, all dumbed down, for the rest of the party, gruffly tell them "i get it" and consider beating them to the punch to explain the rest, or pointedly ask them about a detail that they missed that you noticed. Bonus points if you're talking about your area of expertise....say, setting up a village militia or fort, or planning an attack on the evil tower of badness.
You can still underscore your lack of intelligence and wisdom in the words you use and the actions you propose. Maybe you came up with a good plan, but you use simple words to describe it ("[wizard] you stand in back of me so arrows hit me and not hit you. It good you have a wall in the group!") or maybe you're coming up with a plan to assault the evil wizard tower of badness, which undoubtedly has traps and such, and your plan is "we charge as a big group! we're tough, we can take whatever they throw at us" - which is a perfectly valid and probably successful approach, but maybe not the WISEST approach.
i think that "tricking" or showing them up might be a little passive-aggressive.
instead, just emphasize your characters "not dumb"-ness.
you're a fighter barbarian? and literate? maybe carry around what would translate into the D&D version of Sun Tzu's "The Art of War." Make a point of pulling it out and reading it after setting up camp or while discussing how to take on an imminent combat threat. With your character's base attack and weapon-based feats, you're probably quite the student of tactics, even if you can't recite the history and ideologies of each of the D&D minor gods. Btw, consider making the book have a clever, funny name for D&D - something like "How Not to get Killed: A Discussion of the Finer Points of War"
When something gets explained, and the party starts to try to repeat it, all dumbed down, for the rest of the party, gruffly tell them "i get it" and consider beating them to the punch to explain the rest, or pointedly ask them about a detail that they missed that you noticed. Bonus points if you're talking about your area of expertise....say, setting up a village militia or fort, or planning an attack on the evil tower of badness.
You can still underscore your lack of intelligence and wisdom in the words you use and the actions you propose. Maybe you came up with a good plan, but you use simple words to describe it ("[wizard] you stand in back of me so arrows hit me and not hit you. It good you have a wall in the group!") or maybe you're coming up with a plan to assault the evil wizard tower of badness, which undoubtedly has traps and such, and your plan is "we charge as a big group! we're tough, we can take whatever they throw at us" - which is a perfectly valid and probably successful approach, but maybe not the WISEST approach.
His 9 in intelligent is within the range of "normal". He doesn't have to speak in broken sentences :p
His 9 in intelligent is within the range of "normal". He doesn't have to speak in broken sentences :p
"Garash's tribe not use first person pronoun. Is cultural thing."
His 9 in intelligent is within the range of "normal". He doesn't have to speak in broken sentences :p
"Garash's tribe not use first person pronoun. Is cultural thing."
Fair enough ^^
Now, as I understand it, an ability score with 10 is the average human level of that skill. Average strength, average looks, average smarts.
An IQ of 100, which seems even enough to equate that to an intelligence of "10" is "average". Where 9, by this reasoning is probably an IQ of 90. Sub-Average. Sub-Average isn't exactly mentally retarded.
Honestly, your characters stats are a reflection of that character. This is one of my problems with the Point Buy system. It encourages players to min/max their stats. Whereas the rolling system gave a variety of numbers, and in my opinion leaned more towards building a characters stats around their roleplaying ability / potential.
I've always thought of INT as book smarts and WIS as street smarts (even if streetwise is based on charisma.)
But classes have their own worth. A friend of mine knows his way in and out of computers. Building, programming, hacking. Doesn't do too well with other things like figuring out astrophysics, or how to change the oil in a car, but I wouldn't say he's an idiot. Some Harvard grad might consider him stupid. But to me, his smartness lies in talents he possesses beyond a formal education.
In all honesty, if everybody else in the party has an INT of 18 and yours is 9, yes, you're dumber than they are when it comes to things that Intelligence dictates in the 4e world.
But would I say a fighter is stupid with those scores? No, because he might know one language, another badly, has poor table manners, and doesn't understand the difference between metaphysics and existentialism, but I tell you what... That fighter knows how to hit a man to make him hurt, how to charge into battle and come out alive on the other side. (Well, if he made it past level 1 that is.) And I'll bet that fighter knows the difference between cheap flashy weapons that snap in combat and one that will last through many foes cleaved in twain.
Now, saying this:
YOUR CHARACTER STATS ARE A REFLECTION OF THAT CHARACTER!
It really isn't fair to make a character with low intelligence, then claim he knows things that a super genious should know. Just like it wouldn't be fair for a wizard to get angry and argue that he can't kick down a wooden door with a strength of 8, essentially the muscular force of a limp noodle. Or a plate wearing cleric with a dexterity of 6, who doesn't seem to understand that a subaverage dex would mean his ability to balance on a tightrope is akin to a drunken baby attempting the same task.
If you want to be "better" at something, then redo your sheet a bit, if your dm would be cool with it. But talk to the people at your table pre game. Tell them the constant harassment is getting to you. Or roll with it. Refuse to help a wizard deal with a goblin that has attached itself to his face until he pays you with "MOARSHINIES AND MEATS POINTYROBEFAIRYMAN!"
A player of mine was upset that his fighter was the textbook definition of gullible. His insight was so low he could not discern lies from truth. (Whether his character believed it or not is still up to the player, but low insight meant he did not know the difference between someone lying and being sincere.) He was bothered, so I showed him some features to change that up. I gave him a background feature that granted him insight as a class skill, a theme that gave a further bonus to it, and rearranged a few of his non-primary stats around to give it another nudge.
Now, he still doesn't believe anything anybody says, but now his insight his high enough that he can see through lies and illusions better.
Nobody wants their character to be useless, but you can't come to the table with a strength of 8, then tell me stories about how your wizard character wrestled bears growing up so that even if his strength is 8, he can bench press ogres without magical augmentation, all just so you could min-max your primary stats so magic missile does max damage.