Whats the alternatives and the best solutions?
A horse can't comfortably carry that much weight on its back, but it would do much better with a chariot. Give the dragonborn an item or feat that boosts its overland speed and have it walk.
They just don't seem to fit (for example out Dragonborn is 300lbs Naked.. with armour and gear he's putting that horse to max load).
Whats the alternatives and the best solutions?
You see your problem is assuming that the horse should be carrying the dragonborn...
First and foremost, D&D is fantasy roleplaying. That dragonborn even exist is enough of an explanation as to why they can ride horses. Second, "modern" dragonborn are the remnants of the ancient empire called Arkhosia (PHB, p35). It stands to reason that such an empire would have motive and resources enough to use both mundane and magical methods to breed horses capable of carrying a rider weighing 300+ pounds.
Look at it this way: the world-record Clydesdale stood 20 hands high (about 6' 6")) at the shoulder and weighed close to a ton. Since an average horse can carry up to 25% of its body weight, such a beast would be able to carry a 300lb rider without much trouble. Toss in a magical breeding program sponsored by an empire of dragonborn and it's not too difficult to explain how dragonborn don't have much trouble finding a horse to ride.
A destier could, for example, carry a full grown overweight scotsman wearing ornamental armor (like coinmail).
Say, a 280 lb, six foot five man, wearing scale armor made of gold coins... Seriously.
I think Dragonborn can ride large horses.
Also, feel free to add special mounts for them.
There are also alternative mounts, but they require considerable work to obtain and train.
Another method, as mentioned, is a chariot, which would be cool, although the terain might not support such a vehicle. Mires, swampslands, narrow trails, etc that can't be crossed by a chariot. Horses can wade in mud and water, traverse narrow paths, travel on uneven ground, jump low obsticles, etc, whereas a chariot needs a relatively even surface.
and it should be able to hold an Dragonborn quite easily.
Otherwise, I like DrMorganes idea quite nicely, and will probably use it in my 4e campaign.
I'd have to agree that Horses are not the only solution (though for a lower level they do apear the cheapest - of course at lower level your gold is often fueled into other more needed things)
The idea of a magical breeding program for horses is a nice way to tie in horses that are built and breeded for the duty of carrying a dragonborn.
The horses within the PHB can easily carry a Dragonborn, the only problem a fellow party member and the DM found was that the horses strength in mobility was dramatically reduced to it being slowed while holding such.
Apart from that some more imaginative and creative ways to transport our Dragborn compatriot will be considered :D
They just don't seem to fit (for example out Dragonborn is 300lbs Naked.. with armour and gear he's putting that horse to max load).
Whats the alternatives and the best solutions?
Dragonborn are nor bigger than a big man. I've seen 6'4" 300lb+ guys ride horses. What's the big deal? Horses can carry a huge amount of weight.
The greater question is why pretty much every fantasy world has ****ing horses. Seriously, what is with that?
Have the Dragonborn lose 120 pounds. Use a monstrous mount.
A horse can't comfortably carry that much weight on its back, but it would do much better with a chariot. Give the dragonborn an item or feat that boosts its overland speed and have it walk.
hmmm.... a chariot driving dragonborn warlord.....me likey
Dragonborn ride elephants.
Edit: This only works in 3.5, though.
Dragonborn are nor bigger than a big man. I've seen 6'4" 300lb+ guys ride horses. What's the big deal? Horses can carry a huge amount of weight.
The greater question is why pretty much every fantasy world has ****ing horses. Seriously, what is with that?
The same reason every fantasy world has ****ing swords?
The greater question is why pretty much every fantasy world has ****ing horses. Seriously, what is with that?
Final Fantasy has chocobos. :D
Final Fantasy has chocobos. :D
Pwned
*From about.com*
Sleipnir (Norse, "gliding one") is the legendary eight-legged horse belonging to Odin, the Father-God of the Norse pantheon. Sleipnir carries Odin between the world of the Gods and the world of matter. The eight legs symbolize the directions of the compass, and Sleipnir's ability to travel through land and air.
http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefssleipnir.htm
The same reason every fantasy world has ****ing swords?
Swords are a fairly obvious extension of basic tool-using technological advancement, an specifically Earth-based organism is not.
I'm not saying it is inherently right or wrong - no more so than humans, sheep, pigs, etc. also existing on these same worlds - rather that it shows a lack of imagination.
My point, which seems to have escaped many, is that the simple answer is to eschew horses, if not altogether than at least in part. In other words, instead of worrying how to get a Dragonborn on a horse, use your imagination to think of something creative to put under the Dragonborn. Just please, don't make it dragons…
Final Fantasy has chocobos. :D
I am well aware of that, which is why I wrote "pretty much every", rather than "every"…
Pwned
…which seems to have confused the hell out of this poster.
[snip]I'm not saying it is inherently right or wrong - no more so than humans, sheep, pigs, etc. also existing on these same worlds - rather that it shows a lack of imagination. [/snip]
I tend to have some pretty crazy imaginative piggies.
2) strap one to each foot
3) use like rollerblades
4) profit
I know it was a rhetorical question, but it was a silly one
I'd like to see dragonborn riding those.
I tend to have some pretty crazy imaginative piggies.
I had a dwarf PC who rode a Dwarven Battlepig he named "Bacon" to remind it what would happen if it got out of line.
So do your homebrews not have trees/grass/birds/insects/humans etc but other things instead?
Again, I think you have totally missed the point of my statement…
I know it was a rhetorical question, but it was a silly one
…as clearly evinced by this reply.
Once more from the top: the point is not that horses are anomalous - in truth were this a real alien world nothing of Earth should exist there - rather that too many people constrain themselves only to the familiar. Instead of trying to figure out how race X would work with a horse as a mount, use some imagination to figure out what mount would work with race X.
I remember some old 80's fantasy cartoon where the hero and the heroine both rode horses, but their back up muscle, who was some sort of demi-human monster guy (blue lion like head, like 8 foot tall), rode this oddly draconic pseudo-horse. It had scales, and lizard like eyes, fangs, and clawed feet rather than hooves.
I'd like to see dragonborn riding those.
With charging being a big part of riding a mount, why has every one forgotten the rhino?
Because the elephant is better. It can just chuck the rhino to the side when it charges. Then step on it, and just sort of stay there until it stops moving.
That said dragonborn should ride camels. Those things can take serious amounts of weight. And there are some huge camels. A friend of my mothers has an uncle, who has a camel thats around 8 feet at the shoulder. Most people don't even reach stomach height. Neither do some trucks. Since camels routinely carry heavy loads, 400 pounds is nothing. Its not unheard of for pack camels to carry over a thousand pounds, and still move along at a decent clip, way faster than what a mule can manage.
Of course, those were created by a secret group of half-elves, who hid in the mountains to train themselves with stealth. They got the specs from people who ride ships. They combined forces. So that they now have.
Seagoing Robot Ninja Reptiles!
I see dragonborn riding warforged raptors.
Of course, those were created by a secret group of half-elves, who hid in the mountains to train themselves with stealth. They got the specs from people who ride ships. They combined forces. So that they now have.
Seagoing Robot Ninja Reptiles!
You forgot the Laser Vision. No Ninja Pirate Robot Dinosaur would be complete with out mentioning Laser Vision.
Thus, I appropriated a number of critters. The half-berserk riding birds (war mounts for lighter characters) use raptor stats (without the foreclaw attacks). Plodding, loving, foul-smelling giant boars made slow but formidable mounts (and also pull siege engines). Even the cryptoclidus from Monster Manual II made an appearance as the 'galley beast', favored by coast-dwelling races as a means to create marine cavalry. And the night-loving gremlins, naturally, used a form of giant owl.
Give the dragonborn clothes, 'cause no one wants to see a naked dragonborn.
Speak for yourself.
As to the OP, if a regular horse carrying a dragonborn seems a bit much to you, the obvious solution would be a Dire Horse. Seems like there's a Dire variety of just about everything these days.
Course if you need to go any where fast you are done...
Dwarves don't slow down at a heavy load, so they can go more than twice as fast as a horse with more than 237 lbs.
Or you can ignore the shortsighted encumbrance rules and use common sense. WotC dropped the ball here, as this thread clearly shows.
Just give him a big, strong horse.
I think you're underestimating how much horses can carry. The dragonborn weight class may be over the top...but for a large horse like a clydesdale I don't think they are ridiculously over the top...not enough to worry about.
Just give him a big, strong horse.
You're making a houserule that there are significantly bigger horses. According to the rules, the closest thing to a clydesdale is a warhorse, which is still inadequate.
237/262 pounds for a horse or warhorse? Why do we even have to go to Dragonborn, even Humans and other races are going to be hitting those figures unless they each have 2 horses, one for them and one for gear.
I interpret it as a balance limit to keep you from loading your packhorse with too much loot/gear only.
Even though you’re using a published setting, always
remember: It’s still your campaign. You should never
limit your creativity to what the book says—any book.
A Campaign Guide is a source of ideas and a toolbox.
You don’t have to use that material exactly as
it stands. You can and should change things you
don’t like, incorporate elements you like from other
campaigns or adventures, and put your own distinctive
stamp on the world.
Even though in this context they're talking about prepackaged campaign worlds, the idea is still the same. You're the DM here. If you want to allow horses to carry more weight because you feel it is accurate then adjust the stats for horses accordingly. Have a chat with your players, see if they accept the new house rule and then implement it.
Somedays it's good to be the all powerful force of your gaming universe.
Seriously, did WotC do such an unbelievable, iredeemably crappy, pathetic job developing their goofball, crappy, over-the-top, laughable, disgusting excuse for a new bruiser race that they didn't even stop to consider whether giant saurian monsters who can spontaneously grow wings and spit fire would even use horses as a primary means of transportation?
If you are going to have a race that outlandish you may as well put some tiny small amount of wattage of creativity into developing something more interesting for them to be riding around on.
Even in a less-than-original line of reasoning, perhaps the Dragonborn ride around on something like the Dewbacks from Star Wars or some sort of comparively small Cerapoda type creature to ride around on that is designed to be able to carry their massive girth and the equipment they need as well as recieve higher strength and defense compared to the horse in exchange for slower speed and a lack of jumping capability.
That way you have something that makes sense while at the same time supporting the giant beefy reptillian thematic concept.
F*** it, do the players have to hold the hands of and do everything for this current batch of ****-poor game designers?! Its bad enough that they needed to recruit outside resources just to be able to create a half-marketable setting and the people they hired kind of crapped out and settled for 'throw everything imaginable in and see what sticks including robots, good werewolves, airships, etc., etc.' But now they insist on throwing in half-baked outlandish base races like the Dragonborn and don't even take the time to DEVELOP them and avert such basic problems?
Why would Dragonborn even be riding horses?....
Seriously, did WotC do such an unbelievable, iredeemably crappy, pathetic job developing their goofball, crappy, over-the-top, laughable, disgusting excuse for a new bruiser race that they didn't even stop to consider whether giant saurian monsters who can spontaneously grow wings and spit fire would even use horses as a primary means of transportation?
If you are going to have a race that outlandish you may as well put some tiny small amount of wattage of creativity into developing something more interesting for them to be riding around on.
Even in a less-than-original line of reasoning, perhaps the Dragonborn ride around on something like the Dewbacks from Star Wars or some sort of comparively small Cerapoda type creature to ride around on that is designed to be able to carry their massive girth and the equipment they need as well as recieve higher strength and defense compared to the horse in exchange for slower speed and a lack of jumping capability.
That way you have something that makes sense while at the same time supporting the giant beefy reptillian thematic concept.
F*** it, do the players have to hold the hands of and do everything for this current batch of ****-poor game designers?! Its bad enough that they needed to recruit outside resources just to be able to create a half-marketable setting and the people they hired kind of crapped out and settled for 'throw everything imaginable in and see what sticks including robots, good werewolves, airships, etc., etc.' But now they insist on throwing in half-baked outlandish base races like the Dragonborn and don't even take the time to DEVELOP them and avert such basic problems?
Holy crud! And I thought I was having issues with 4ed. Wow.
DM: A wave of cold rushes through you as you stand before the doorway. You feel the ancient anger of a thousand smouldering fires burning with the cold intensity of impotent rage within. A fourth edition hater must lurk inside...
Wow. I mean, I was an original playtester for 3rd edition when it came out, have my name in print in the original player's handbook and everything. At the time I was bitterly angry at the design crew for changing my beloved game, but in time I came to love the new rendition. I'm going to try to do the same for this one too. Try it. You might just come to like it.
If you have never actually stood next to one of these animals in real life try to make it to a county fair this summer. These animals are awe inspiring up close. Power personified (or horse-ified, or whatever). In short, I have no problems believing that a heavy horse could carry a Dragonborn. If you still have doubts, well, the guy who suggested chariots is a freaking genius. Dragonborn war chariots are about the coolest thing ever. That, or just let them ride big domesticated lizards. Its a fantasy game for goodness sake.
Why would Dragonborn even be riding horses?....
Seriously, did WotC do such an unbelievable, iredeemably crappy, pathetic job developing their goofball, crappy, over-the-top, laughable, disgusting excuse for a new bruiser race that they didn't even stop to consider whether giant saurian monsters who can spontaneously grow wings and spit fire would even use horses as a primary means of transportation?
If you are going to have a race that outlandish you may as well put some tiny small amount of wattage of creativity into developing something more interesting for them to be riding around on.
Even in a less-than-original line of reasoning, perhaps the Dragonborn ride around on something like the Dewbacks from Star Wars or some sort of comparively small Cerapoda type creature to ride around on that is designed to be able to carry their massive girth and the equipment they need as well as recieve higher strength and defense compared to the horse in exchange for slower speed and a lack of jumping capability.
That way you have something that makes sense while at the same time supporting the giant beefy reptillian thematic concept.
F*** it, do the players have to hold the hands of and do everything for this current batch of ****-poor game designers?! Its bad enough that they needed to recruit outside resources just to be able to create a half-marketable setting and the people they hired kind of crapped out and settled for 'throw everything imaginable in and see what sticks including robots, good werewolves, airships, etc., etc.' But now they insist on throwing in half-baked outlandish base races like the Dragonborn and don't even take the time to DEVELOP them and avert such basic problems?
Brother, you really should consider de-caf.
The rage drake has the same caring capacity as a riding horse, by the way.
It also might be that you are putting the cart before the horse. Your dragonborn doesn't HAVE to be 300 lbs.
Brother, you really should consider de-caf.
Or Ritalin.
RL warhorses could not only carry a heavy man in armor with weapons and a shield, but also wear armor (barding) themselves while doing so. In short, they are incredibly strong. Ask yourself this- can you picture a football lineman on the back of a draft horse (the closest thing we have to medieval warhorses this days)? Now I grant you, they are not going to win the Kentucky Derby that way, but a large horse certainly has the strength for this.
If you have never actually stood next to one of these animals in real life try to make it to a county fair this summer. These animals are awe inspiring up close. Power personified (or horse-ified, or whatever). In short, I have no problems believing that a heavy horse could carry a Dragonborn. If you still have doubts, well, the guy who suggested chariots is a freaking genius. Dragonborn war chariots are about the coolest thing ever. That, or just let them ride big domesticated lizards. Its a fantasy game for goodness sake.
That's great and all that they could be pushed to that constrant, BUT...
you forgot you are now asking that horse to carrying something twice as heavy as a human wearing the same sort of armor but now twice as heavy and carrying the same sort of equipment, only now twice as heavy.
So even though they could carry that amazing load, you are now asking them to scale that up to double the load and as strong and magnificent as I am sure the horse is, asking them to carry twice the load you can demonstrate that they could carry is a bit much to ask.
Rage drakes, or large strong horses with scales.
Eight legged horses with scales. Odin had taste in mounts, why not mimic it.
All the Best,
Nani?
The same reason every fantasy world has ****ing swords?
Not to mention ****ing gold... oh and ****ing ale, or how about ****ing Inns and ****ing Castles.