The avenger can take some ranged powers
The monk can pick up a light thrown or a bow
The swarm druid can pick up some ranged/area powers
The fighter and warlord can pick up heavy thrown weapons, the warlord can even takes some powers based on them.
The avenger can take some ranged powers
The monk can pick up a light thrown or a bow
The swarm druid can pick up some ranged/area powers
And the fighter, warlord, and monk could grab two multiclass feats to grab a decent ranged encounter power from another class.
Jump & Swing. I'd count this as a Charge attack if it was a running jump & I was DM.
The Monk should be pretty good at this; I remember some Monk powers allow movement and/or jumping as part of the technique
Nets; I've heard of a Fisherman Fighter build, but I don't know the details. Anyone know about this? Immobolizing the enemy should make them crash to earth.
Ranged (Heavy Thrown) weapons
Alchemical items (speciffically those that immobolize), or Magic Ammo.
Throw someone at it.
Seriously. Combined Jump and Throw check. A Fighter-type should be able to cup his hands, face an ally, and give the Monk a boost by standing up while lifting up. That's got to be another 5-10 feet of jumping power right there.
[edit: Darn, ninja'd when I edited!
]I read somewhere that tanglefoot bags or other things that immobilize them are good, since if a flying creature doesn't move 2 squares on its turn it falls to the ground.
Unless it has Hover, this is true. As per the DMG, a flying creature must move 2 squares or crash (read the section on Crashing as well; it doesn't necessarily mean what you might think). If you can somehow knock the monster Prone while flying, it will also Crash.
Javelins are good ranged weapons for melee types.
Crossbows are easy for just about anyone, aren't they?
Nets...
Grab?
t~
There's also such things as ropes & nets. Various types of traps can also be prepaired if time permits.
The other way to fight these creatures is to run. Run for cover. Either it will go away or it will go into the confined space in which you are hiding.
I read somewhere that tanglefoot bags or other things that immobilize them are good, since if a flying creature doesn't move 2 squares on its turn it falls to the ground.
Unless it has Hover, this is true. As per the DMG, a flying creature must move 2 squares or crash (read the section on Crashing as well; it doesn't necessarily mean what you might think). If you can somehow knock the monster Prone while flying, it will also Crash.
Hovering implies that it can still move its wings -- kinda hard to use wings effectively when they're all gummed-up (unless it's like a beholder or something -- then all bets are off).
)Even more importantly than that, though, the DM shouldn't drag this sort of fight out! The characters are already being pitted against a creature that has the upper hand against them - it's getting to use pretty much any power at its disposal any time it wants to, while the party's stuck making ranged basic attacks for an entire fight.
The DM should think about introducing some terrain the PCs can use tactically. Barring that, consider reducing the monster's HPs, or just wait until it's clear that the party has the fight well in hand and then minion-ize the bugger.
In any event, it's probably not a good idea for a DM whose party is melee based to throw a lot of flying creatures at them. Such an encounter might encourage creative play if used every once in a while, but it will become tedious fast if it happens often.
If you don't mind a bit of cheese, Grasping Javelins are an excellent resource for a melee heavy party.
t~
Huh. I hadn't really thought of using Grasping Weapon with a thrown weapon, I always thought of it for Reach weapons. Pulling an enemy 20 squares with an item encounter power? Man, that is cheesy.
Yes, it's always good policy for characters to carry some backup ranged weapons, even if they're primarily melee types. For STR based characters, heavy thrown weapons are a great idea. Besides, further into their leveling they should have some old lower level items to transfer the enchants off of and onto their backup thrown weapons (so they don't have to chase them down every round. )
Even more importantly than that, though, the DM shouldn't drag this sort of fight out! The characters are already being pitted against a creature that has the upper hand against them - it's getting to use pretty much any power at its disposal any time it wants to, while the party's stuck making ranged basic attacks for an entire fight.
The DM should think about introducing some terrain the PCs can use tactically. Barring that, consider reducing the monster's HPs, or just wait until it's clear that the party has the fight well in hand and then minion-ize the bugger.
In any event, it's probably not a good idea for a DM whose party is melee based to throw a lot of flying creatures at them. Such an encounter might encourage creative play if used every once in a while, but it will become tedious fast if it happens often.
Unless he puts some opposrtunities for players to use or has at least one solution for the problem other than fighting in open prepared.
Note that all dragons can fly. For melee characters it would be best to try to sneak into the den where usually a dragon can't fly around.
i think every charicter should carry ranged weaopns. EVERY. there is no reason not to. a crossbow is what? 100 gp? peanuts to a level 5 charicter. not to mention the amount that can be picked up off dead people. in fact whenever i play a charicter i ALWAYS start with enough ranged weapons to go around the whole party and hand them out at the start.
composite bows can be great for strong charicters, as can javelins, but require proficiencies. crossbows can be used by anyone.
Throw someone at it.
Nobody tosses a dwarf!
Sorry, someone had to say it.
The battle is intended to take place on an (unarmed) airship that the pair is attacking. If the party tries to line-of-sight the pair to make them get closer, they'll just go back to attacking the ship (if I play them smart). If the party stands and fights, there's no reason why the pair shouldn't just stay out 20 squares and pluck at them with at-wills (if I play them smart), with maybe a couple quick trips into 10 square range to use their encounters/dailies.
My current plan is to allow the party to control the airship a la that one boss fight in Final Fantasy X. One of the party members (probably the artificer, who "built" the airship) will be in charge of using their actions to direct the pilot to bring the ship closer to one of the pair, at which point he'll be in range of everyone's attacks (the artificer also plays the paladin, so he'll still be able to participate in combat). At that point it'll be up to the party to decide if they want to just keep chasing one at a time, allowing the other to get potshots at them, or else try to grab one, lock him down, and keep him on the ship while they reel in the other.
If it looks like that just isn't going to work out, plan B is for the pair to "shoot down" the airship and, in the resulting ground combat, design the battlefield such that the pair have no choice but to stray into everyone's range on a regular basis.
My character is a Kenku (As per 2e) and has a Str of 18+03 (Or something along those lines) a team mate of mine was snagged and dragged underwater by an encounter, my response was (I take the 50 foot of rope out of my pack and tie it to my spear.) my DM allowed it, but it took afull-turn to do so with a DC like 17 or something with my dex mod. (Since I was hovering over the lake.) I then went spear-fishing for my teammate.
You could do the same, just keep a spear or javelin with rope fastened to it, all those melee characters one of them has to have a beastly or at least 14+ STR, have them drag whatever it is down, or use combined efforts to do so. o.O
There is also tactical things the party can do against ranged opponents. Standing in an open field for instance while being attacked by flying creatures is a poor idea.
-Seek cover and concealment. The flying opponent is often in the air (and highly visible) the PCs can even the odds by moving to where they receive some protection. Getting behind large objects (such as a tree or large rock) provides cover makign it harder to hit. Hiding in bushes provides concealment, other effects such as smoke also provides concealment for the PCs.
-Limit the flying creatures movements. Such as going into a nearby forest or group of trees, limits the movements of flying creatures, they will have to get much closer to attack the players, and their flight maneuvering will be limited due to room and obsticles such as trees and branches. The players can also seek cover and concealment like above while at the same time limiting the movement of the flying creatures. Even moving beside a cliff face will limit the directions the creatures can attack from.
-Moving. A flying creature still has a movement rate, if the party moves in a particular direction then the flying creatures will have to follow to keep up, this limits the direction that the flying creatures have to attack the PCs at, instead of being able to circle them. Attacks such as flyby attacks are also limited if the creature spends it's movement to catchup to the PCs since the creature might end it's movement within reach of the PCs after spending it's movement to catch up to them. Especially if they are in an area which limits the flying creature's movement (such as a forest)
Throw someone at it.
Seriously. Combined Jump and Throw check. A Fighter-type should be able to cup his hands, face an ally, and give the Monk a boost by standing up while lifting up. That's got to be another 5-10 feet of jumping power right there.
[edit: Darn, ninja'd when I edited!
This. Fastball Special is one of my favorite combos. Our swordmage throws my rogue at something, usually something he's marked, and my rogue hits it. When I get hit by an OA, he teleports and hits it again.
This familiar can go up to 40 squares away from you, and you can use a ranged arcane power determining range from it once per encounter. Lightning lure just got range 43 squares, but still pulls them into melee with you.
