Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kingspoom Jul 24, 2009 15:20:27	Here's the scenario: I am the leader of a group. The purpose of this group is to take over the world, for the betterment of mankind. The cities and authority are inefficient, corrupt, and make war. At the start of the campaign, I have one 120% loyal ally. Throughout the campaign, I will acquire 6 companions. Each will have a story of his/her own, and "alignment" so to speak will vary. The problem is that, were I to tell them what my goal was from the start, most if not all of them would reject or outright oppose me on principal. Throughout the campaign, it is my job to show them I've got what it takes to heal the world; make it a better place. Presumably, each person shown would not be the only person I would try to recruit, but in actuality they are. What I need, however, is a single question from which I can judge their loyalty to me or let me know that I'd be able to convince them it's the right thing to do. They wouldn't know what the question was really meant for until the end of the campaign. That pretty much means it can't be a direction question. A tall order, probably. I appreciate any help you give though. Basic descriptions: Already in the party: 1:Me, a dark knight with a splash of casting, sorta neutral 2:an aging, but sly rogue who worked for my father, 120% loyal To be recruited: 3: A healer who won't take a life, but has no problem being with people who do. Goodest aligned of all the party members. 4: A "red mage" gambler who is looking out for number 1. Wants to get out of debt and settle down. 5: A speedy fighter looking to learn the fighting styles of the world. Seems indifferent to the "why" of situations and instead focuses on what he can do. 6: A humble monk who travels the world doing the work that nobody else wants to do, not caring for his reputation. 7: A sadistic mage who likes bringing pain to her enemies. Perhaps the Evilest aligned of all the party members. 8: An honorable swordsman in appearance. This member will betray the party. I'm not certain if his answer to the question will be a lie or a foreshadowing hint, but I would prefer a "his answer to the question makes so much sense now" thing. If you need to know more, I'll try, but I don't know everything yet. The general impression I want to give the other players is that the whole thing was planned, and perhaps that I even knew the answers that they would give would in turn tell me they were exactly what I was looking for, even though they were the ones to ask to join me. Again, thank you for reading and thank you if you come up with an answer... (well, a question).
#2 crossblade Jul 24, 2009 16:21:35	Here's a question; are you the DM or a player? Is this a solo campaign, and all in the list are NPCs? The way you speak as if they're below you [while fitting of a leader], doesn't necessarily give reason for another PERSON who is an equal to you at the gaming table to want to follow you. If you're the DM; and this is a DMPC/key NPC/the story then this is an interesting sounding campaign, and it needn't be 1 question for all characters. You could also just have the PCs come up with their own reason for helping out. If you're a player, I HOPE this is the key idea of the DM and you're simply the best choice for leader. (At this point, first refer to the last sentence in the first paragraph) Then for starters, a better question to ask yourself is why would they want to follow you; and thusly lead into a decent question "What can I do for you, to gain your loyalty?"
#3 drackthor Jul 24, 2009 16:24:29	Something the movie Coach Carter has stuck with me. At the beginning of the movie, the title character asks one of his players "What is your deepest fear?" and every so often, he'd ask him again, one time even hinting at the true answer "What is your deepest fear, Mr. Cruz? Is it that you're inadequate?". Near the climax of the movie, after his players go through a training montage (but for academics, not basketball, surprisingly), it is eventually responded to by Mr. Cruz with "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." Now, what I would suggest is, barring that question specifically, ask each recruit what it is that they fear, and, through your actions and displaying your thoughts, how your new world order will rid itself of their greatest fear.
#4 kingspoom Jul 24, 2009 16:56:02	Here's a question; are you the DM or a player? Is this a solo campaign, and all in the list are NPCs? The way you speak as if they're below you [while fitting of a leader], doesn't necessarily give reason for another PERSON who is an equal to you at the gaming table to want to follow you. I am a player. All other persons at the gaming table, one for each of the characters presented here, are all on board for the entirety of the game. There will be no problems here. If you're a player, I HOPE this is the key idea of the DM and you're simply the best choice for leader. (At this point, first refer to the last sentence in the first paragraph) Then for starters, a better question to ask yourself is why would they want to follow you; and thusly lead into a decent question "What can I do for you, to gain your loyalty?" Just a guess, but are you suggesting that everything won't fall into place unless it gets put in its place? As in, I have to show each character why I am in the right for what I want to do? That almost leaves the question to be nothing more than a foreshadowing of what I must accomplish in front of them. Interesting, but I would still like a good question. Now, what I would suggest is, barring that question specifically, ask each recruit what it is that they fear, and, through your actions and displaying your thoughts, how your new world order will rid itself of their greatest fear. Interesting. Asking someone their greatest fear (and assuming an honest answer), you have the knowledge to possibly right the greatest wrong in their mind and win them over. The question seems a little on the dark side... negative side. It has potential though. Anyone else?
#5 crossblade Jul 24, 2009 19:53:21	Just a guess, but are you suggesting that everything won't fall into place unless it gets put in its place? As in, I have to show each character why I am in the right for what I want to do? Pretty much; yes. Why should they follow you or even believe you're a better leader of the world then any one of them? (Ignoring the power or wealth they could gain being leader) On top of that, you're a dark knight after all. For all they know you're world that will be "healed and a better place", could a barren wasteland where everyone's dead. After all, the dead can't be corrupt or ill. (Which is more than reason enough for any neutral or good characters to off you before you get too strong). Alternatively, why might some of them even want the world to be more orderly? The gambler could disappear easier in a world of chaos, and the backstabber might like the world the way it is. It leads into 2 things; the first being a quote from "Hercules: The Legendary Journeys" (the one staring Kevin Sorbo). Ares, the God of War, offers Herc a team up; they could have a 'perfect world', order, peace, no senseless killing, the whole nine yards. And then Ares states, "See? We want the same thing!" To which Herc asks the evil God, "Oh yeah? Tell me, what color is the sky in your world?" Secondly, it leads into something you answered yourself: That almost leaves the question to be nothing more than a foreshadowing of what I must accomplish in front of them. Asking someone their greatest fear (and assuming an honest answer), you have the knowledge to possibly right the greatest wrong in their mind and win them over. Or, ya know... totally use it against them. So what alignment is your character, by the way?
#6 kingspoom Jul 25, 2009 2:41:15	the first being a quote from "Hercules: The Legendary Journeys" (the one staring Kevin Sorbo). Ares, the God of War, offers Herc a team up; they could have a 'perfect world', order, peace, no senseless killing, the whole nine yards. And then Ares states, "See? We want the same thing!" To which Herc asks the evil God, "Oh yeah? Tell me, what color is the sky in your world?" Secondly, it leads into something you answered yourself: Or, ya know... totally use it against them. So what alignment is your character, by the way? Ya know, I actually remember that episode. Alignment? That's hard to judge. In 3.X, Neutral Good and Chaotic Good are possible, but it's probably (true) neutral. In 4e it's kinda wonky (good and willing to put my life into danger for it, but not lawful or morally obligated to do any one thing) Ends justify the means, good is better than evil, but my ideal world is what's good for the world. To be honest, I've never put much faith into the alignment system. My characters have ideals that they fight for, to which they will fight or flee on varying degrees depending upon what the ideal is. Looking at each individual action they take, the alignment of those actions would be different. Looking at the grand scheme, my character's alignment changes at times to suit his ideals and the situation. From 4e, good and lawful good characters would appreciate the world I create. Unaligned might be slightly annoyed. Evil and Chaotic Evil would feel out of place (although technically I feel they would be a tiny minority in time). As for the characters themselves, the end result is something none of them (except the betrayer) would oppose.
#7 zillah Jul 25, 2009 3:18:04	ask a question and do sense motive on it. you will get your answer
#8 slobo777a Jul 25, 2009 12:40:11	If this were at all possible using a certain combination of words or actions, then we'd all be living in totalitarian regimes without hope of escape. Luckily it is not. Loyalty and trust go together.
#9 knaru Jul 25, 2009 15:00:36	Honestly, you have rough tools of what you need to accomplish to gain their loyalties just from the descriptions you've given. The rogue is loyal to you, so no work need be done there. A pacifistic, über good cleric should not only trust you but also see you have what it takes to rebuild a better world if you can consistently put your group into situations where you better the lives of innocent people, doubly so for rescuing them. This could be accomplished by serendipity or by design (creating situations in which you "rescue" innocents). The red mage is easily led by his coinpurse. Show him the trail of gold and he'll follow wherever it (and, if placed by your machinations, you) will lead him. The fighter and the mage can be led in similar manners. Give them something to fight. The challenge of battle for the fighter, and the chance to inflict agony for the mage. This could, and should, be worked into your "rescues", if at all possible. The monk is a bit of an enigma, though. But, I imagine with a bit more insight, you could twist the "work that no one else wants to do" into the work that you want done. Finally, the betraying swordsman. That can be used to your advantage. You have to give him the opportunity to lay forth the most vile, heartwrenching, gutpunch of a betrayal you can manage to survive. If you can manage to set him up to betray everyone, it will only serve to cement the group to follow your lead. I don't know that you need a question to judge loyalty. Actions speak louder than words, even if those actions need to be prompted by your manipulations. However, if you need to ask questions, a unique question tailored to each character's motivations would be best, as has been suggested below.
#10 kingspoom Jul 25, 2009 16:02:33	Thanks for all of the replies. I believe I have enough information to work with now. If anyone wants to chime in with a last minute suggestion or solution, now would be the time.
#11 johnnyslick Jul 25, 2009 19:26:06	What I would do is a two-part question. Part the first: "Would you kill me if I had a really, really, really large amount of gold on my head?" To that one they should answer no. The second: "What if I had a really, really, really, really large amount of gold on my head?" In that case they should answer "yes". If they answer "no" they're just sucking up to you and can't be trusted.