Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 joxy Jul 29, 2008 19:14:45	I've never played DND with anyone besides my core group of gaming friends, and even then I've only played once a week since May of this year--so I don't have much experience and was hoping some of you would be willing to fill me in on how normal my gaming experience has been so far. Our adventures resemble The Order of the Stick more than it does Tolkien or any other type of fantasy. To be honest, I know the name of ONE of the PCs that I'm partied with in a party of 5, and that's because his name is Greyscale and it sounds like Greyskull. Gameplay is filled with "Oh, hey! How much HP are you at? Oh, I'm at 17 so I'll come heal you that way next turn I can spend a healing surge," and things of that nature. Practically NO roleplaying at all. Here's another example: Pally: I use Enfeebling strike. (rolls) DM: Hit Pally: 3 damage. DM: Ok your turn, Josh. Ranger: Ok, I'm going to use Fox's Cunning, which means that I shift one square.... (rolls) DM: Miss. Your turn, Jody. All the while the other 4 people in the group are talking about the movie they went to see last week, telling jokes, etc., so that whenever the DM says something like "John, make an acrobatics check," the response is most commonly "For what?" Basically, nobody pays attention unless it's his or her turn. Combats that should be relatively simple (such as 3 ghost-things and 2 specter-things jumping the party) can take nearly 45 minutes because of the slow and distracting pace. Is this how most other people play DND? I'd like to have a group where there's an equal balance between immersion in the story and social gaiety, but right now the storytelling experience I'm getting is akin to an ADHD sufferer trying to read through a picturebook version of War and Peace. Finding other people to play with isn't really an option. I wish that I had some idea of what to do in order to enhance our collective gameplay.
#2 Alter_Boy Jul 29, 2008 20:18:51	My party goes about life in "A Clockwork Orange" manner: random violence, singing, lame excuses to trick NPCs, and when they're forced to be good, they just lie around and do nothing.
#3 caradrius Jul 29, 2008 23:09:50	Your experience is pretty much identical to mine. Our DM tries to keep the table talk to a minimum. Some of our players try to roleplay sometimes in combat. On bad days, nobody is paying any attention when it's not their turn. Out of combat, we are slightly more serious about roleplay. We make some varying effort to stay in character verbally. and some varying effort to pay attention. tips: learn character names. write them on your character sheet. make your initiative chart using them, and then call out the initiative using the character names. lead by example. describe what you are doing as vividly as you can. This can get old, so try to lay the emphasis on when it's particularly dramatic. Communicate with your party in-character. Think about how your character would give instructions or suggest plans. If you get strange looks, wisper, "I'm in character." and that will usually get people thinking. However, if your groups likes the way they play already, you are probably SOL. You can only usually maintain the immersion of your least enthusiastic player.
#4 dirtyfrank Jul 29, 2008 23:24:43	In combat, if a character isn't paying attention, and nobody can get their attention, or if deciding what to do is taking to long, then I decide that they are delaying. I have, in the past, had players that wouldn't be paying attention until they found out they missed a couple rounds of combat and that their character was unconscious. At one point, when playing 3.5, I decided that a character was flat-footed and lost their turn rather then letting them delay. After their characters fell a few times they started paying more attention and combats started moving about twice as fast. During combat I, the DM, try not to join in on any side conversations or start any off topic conversations of my own. I don't like to be mean to players or their characters but I have found that doing so gets their attention.
#5 medius Jul 30, 2008 1:24:25	Well i cant say that my games are that bad with table talk and such (most everyone is good about paying attention to whats going on). But in combat things can get drawn out way to long sometimes due to the fact that one of the players in the group can never make up his mind on what he wants to do and always seconded guesses himself on what power hes gonna use. Sadly the same player is not that good at math and will sit there and use a calculator to add up his die rolls. Now I am not saying I am perfect or anything I am far from it. And I will be the first to admit from time to time when its not my turn i will sit there and thumb through the players handbook. But even in doing so i can usually keep up with whats going on. We all try to role play to the best of are abilities whether it be in combat, skill challenges, or social interactions with npcs but sometimes it can eat up to much time and we stop. Learning the other players char names and while your playing refer to them by that name is always a good thing to do. If you don't know the other players char names it could lead them to believe that you don't care about there character or what there doing so why should they care about yours or pay attention to what your doing on your turn. Anyhow thats just my 2 cents and this turned into way longer of a post then i wanted it to so i am gonna stop typing now.
#6 josheva Jul 30, 2008 13:36:01	I find that the off-topic banter problem can usually be solved by one proactive person and a DM that supports that person. Tips: Use character names rather than player names. When describing your actions, be sure to include at least one element of roleplaying. I.E. Turn "I use X power on Y monster then move to Z square" into "Now that my previous foe is down, I toss a X power at Y monster to help (character name) then back away to Z square" Travel time should not be glossed over; it is a perfect opportunity for minor, setting establishing roleplaying. Ask another character about his history, or discuss battle tactics that may solve a previous problem. Discuss future plans. When in interesting situations, like being in a dungeon, ask the DM for detailed descriptions of the room you're in. Word your questions in ways that are easy for the DM to answer, like, "What does it smell like?," "What colour is it?," and "Can I see properly?" Train your DM to cover all 5 of the senses. By gently encouraging roleplaying, you can get everybody much mroe focused on the game. The idea is to have people thinking like their characters rather than as a player.
#7 joxy Jul 30, 2008 14:48:20	Thanks for the help, guys. I'm going to try and use some of the tips you have mentioned. I'm optimistic for what is to come; the group isn't disorganised because that's the way they like to play--I think everyone would be more satisfied with change, it's just that no one is willing to break the established norms that've been set.
#8 lostat Jul 30, 2008 15:18:21	To be honest, the OP's game sounds quite lame compared to the ones I've played in during the past couple of months. If we hit our DM might be more descriptive about it eg: You raise your warhammer high above your head...and it crashes down onto the the Zombie's shoulder, tearing an arm from it. Or if miss the attack roll; You raise your warhammer high above your head...and clumsily it clatters down onto the ground just next to the Zombie. It doesn't take much extra effort on the part of the DM but really can make a world of difference in keeping the players interested and interacting within the game, not being bored and seeing the game as a series of hits & misses. That sounds, frankly, like the dullest type of game to me.
#9 foxen Jul 30, 2008 20:11:22	A lot depends on the DM and how she/he manages the gaming group. In my games, if players take too long during their turn, they lose it...too bad for not paying attention. One player in particular misses out on several things and you know, too bad...he knows better and his teammates constantly remind him what's going on. I would probably have a bit better management but for having seven to eight players on some of the busier nights. In my other gaming group with much "older" players...well, usually we spend about the first half hour or so eating, catching up, talking about the latest movies and video games and what nots... Then we game. A lot of in character side bar discussions (my character constantly harasses the drow and vice versa). And some side bar discussions on how our dice vexes us. Combat still runs kinda slow as players tend to wait until their turn before they choose their actions (which frustrates me to no end). Quite fun actually....well, most of the time. Then, after the games pau, we end up chatting again about real life...about work, movies, other games, and what nots etc. for another half an hour to hour and then we part towards our merry ways. Fox
#10 Psikerlord Jul 31, 2008 7:13:26	I agree you might try using character names on your initiative tracker, and describe your character's attacks on occasion. The DM is in the best position to encourage more "roleplaying" however. But don't sweat it too much. I think a lot of combats degenerate into the mechanical kind. Most of our roleplaying is outside of combat (not including a few choice battlecries and critical hit descriptions, that sort of caper)
#11 kistra Jul 31, 2008 9:26:00	To be honest I don't know the names of the players in my group... I only know their character names. That definitely makes side talk a little bit uncomfortable:P My DM also prompts us to describe things. So if we hit he asks us to describe how we hit. He also prompts us to describe misses: "I duck and the blade chops through the air where my head just was" sort of thing. I think that is more fun than the DM describing these things because you can create a fluff style for how your character fights. Maybe he really likes to do flashy twirls at the end of his swordstroke. Maybe he always dodges to the left. Little things like that can make the characters seem more realistic.
#12 ambulacetus Jul 31, 2008 17:22:38	The real question is are you (and your players) having fun? Some people play D&D because they enjoy deep immersion - they want to get into character, limit off-topic chatter, and focus entirely on the game. This is a fine way to play and can be very rewarding. Others play D&D because they want a light-hearted social activity. For them, stupid puns, off-topic conversation, and crazy hijinks are part of the appeal. This is also a fine way to play. If you want to change the tone of your games to keep your players more focused, this is fine. However, you should be sensitive to how it might effect their fun. My groups have always been a little bit of both styles, and that is just the way I like it. We stay focused enough to actually get gameplay done, but no-one complains if the table talk is temporarily diverted to some other subject. I am a graduate student who has enough serious things going on in his life already. Although I am not in a group at the moment (and I usually DM), if my DM started getting really strict and hurting players in game for having some out-of-character fun I would probably stop playing. I wouldn't quit out of anger or with any hard feelings, I just have enough real-world stresses going on in my life to spend my (sadly limited) free-time playing a game that isn't fun.
#13 nightwalker450 Aug 04, 2008 11:14:15	I've found that 4.0 our group is alot more focused then with anything else we've done (3.x, Shadowrun, etc...). The speed of combat, the versatility of characters, and the tactics, most people are pretty focused. I just have one player who "refuses" to learn the bonuses for his attacks, hasn't even wrote them down yet (I'll probably do it for him), so his turns drag slightly. Otherwise with Shadowrun and 3.5, usually every few rounds would be interrupted by off-topic discussion, pulling up of random YouTube videos (2-3 of us usually have laptops).
#14 dragonsblood Aug 07, 2008 22:17:16	This is not how my group plays. Usually we'll talk about movies, video games, etc for the first and last half hour or so (much like the DMG says). During game time, except for the occasional out of character joke, the group stays mostly in character. We call each other by our character names, verbally dictate how we attack beyond just rolling, and spend time roleplaying how our character lives. I find this starts with how the DM sets the tone. He paints the picture of our surroundings and flavors the NPC reactions with a little description and by actually ad libing the words of the NPCs. For the most part, there is no "I buy some leather armor;" We actually speak to the DM like he's that NPC. So if your group would enjoy more roleplaying, your DM has to lead the charge.
#15 holy_beholder Aug 09, 2008 1:22:55	We usually play tactical battle games with D&D. With other systems its short bursts of fast paced combat, with lots of comedic roleplaying. Lighthearted stuff mostly, with the occasional serious moment. If the game starts getting too serious then you compensate, for instance one of the sci-fi Fudge games I was playing was getting a bit too serious for my players, so 3 drunk guards came around the corner and started trash talking a player who had infiltrated in after bribing guards to get a high ranking guard costume, thinking that she was some "lazy high ranking politicking scum". Then one of them realizes that the uniform doesn't fit and someone broke in(petite female, uniform of a fairly muscular male guard. Mostly to get first shot(black ops). So the guard points foreward and slurs "Your not a guaard". Right about now was when comedic value needed to happen, so the guard, being drunk, has his arm sway a bit, and point at one of the guards next to him. Who, being more drunk, slurs "Yeeees I ammmm" pulls an energy gun, then misses a point blank shot. Cue light show, black ops agent just walks by. Now I can just say "Your not a guard" to any of the players with a fake slur, and they crack up. Very lighthearted basically. Thats without even getting into the flying monkey chain clinging onto the plane in the Pulp Fantasy game.
#16 holy_beholder Aug 09, 2008 1:25:56	Is this how most other people play DND? I'd like to have a group where there's an equal balance between immersion in the story and social gaiety, but right now the storytelling experience I'm getting is akin to an ADHD sufferer trying to read through a picturebook version of War and Peace. Finding other people to play with isn't really an option. I wish that I had some idea of what to do in order to enhance our collective gameplay. I hate to double post, but you might want to try a faster paced, more rules light system. Fudge should work if you use simultaneous combat, and if that doesn't work then your looking at beer and pretzels, and there is no way out of that. At which point you revert to Risus. Both games are free on the internet. Oh and don't start the games immediately, let people conjugate for about 20 minutes before hand, to get some of the talking out of their system.
#17 realms_walker Aug 14, 2008 15:15:58	In the beginning I ran games that were tight to the rules. Players enjoyed them but they felt constrained like I was only brushing the surface of a well with immense possibilities both for me as the DM and my players as well. After a few years of this I ended up running a solo game for a few years for a close close friend of mine and I started toying with a story centered game style that had only one true rule which was if it disrupts the game then it isn't allowed. In time we felt out our boundries and now my games are quite active on all fronts. It also helps that I have run for the same 8 or so people for the past 18 of the 23 years I have been involved in gaming. That allows us a deep familiarity with each others styles of play and tastes. As a NOTE: my statement doesn't mean I throw the rule book out the window it just means I allow players to do things that will add flavor and style to the story as long as it doesn't destroy the flow of the game mechanically.
#18 deviknyte Aug 14, 2008 22:52:39	The group I'm GMing for is great. They're all really into their characters but D&D is a social event full of some of the greatest ranters and absent minded people on the planet, geeks. Now in combat no actual role-playing gets done unless there is some bad guy monologuing, the terrain is on fire, collasping into a time/space vortex or other wise plummeting out of the sky. Unless your playing a loose math system like the Marvel % RPG or White Wolf combat is going to be I move I use this I use that. 3.5 or 4.0. There's not really much you can do to get role-playing into D&D combat. And usually since it doesn't effect the game and usually goes against the mechanics it slows combat down.
#19 etarnon Aug 15, 2008 2:49:08	It's because your DM is lazy. They should be describing everything, the torches on the walls, the story, the dialogue. The combat and such should be an afterthought, used to decide the random twist of fate in combat, nothing more. That's how we play it, anyway. Battletech: The setting sun flares in a bright reflection off of the enemy's cockpit glass... As he steps forward, twisting slightly, with a WHIRR of actuators, his mech's arms rise, and flames and smoke issue forth, rocketing your way! 6 missiles strike your 'Mech, one each in the upper arm, left leg, 3 to the right torso, and one to the head...Shards of cockpit glass and armor from the strike, tear into your flesh... You struggle with the controls, favoring your broken arm. (all done with appropriate die rolls, during, for to hit, hit location, and pilot damage, of course.) D&D Birthright (War Cards): The Goblin Host of 200 break forth from the wood, rushing and screaming to meet your charge...As paladins of the King's Guard clash with the gnarl-faced humanoids, the ring of steel is drown out by the screams of the dying. Tooth and nail they fight, as you swing, hack, and thrust, tearing off limbs... Finally, they break and run, decimated. Your unit has been fortunate, indeed. But lo! A messenger arrives. "Sire. I beg to report that your keep, some 20 miles don the South Road, has been set alight, and it seems another unit of goblins is attacking it. The Steward of your keep requests immediate reinforcements!" ------------------------------------------ That's what games I run are like.
#20 DrWorm Aug 17, 2008 15:00:33	Mine are somewhere in between. We are pretty hardcore about keeping OOG talk to a minimum, and if it gets out of hand the DM (Me) drops the hammer to get their attention. On the other hand we don't play "in character" even durring non-combat encounters. Occasionally somone will drop an accent, but for the most part it is stuff like "Lothar orders a mug of ale an then asks the barkeep for rumors about the cartwright's guild". In battle we only describe actions if it is a dramatic moment (critical hits, critical misses), or if the action or if it is needed to get the idea of the action across.
#21 drackthor Aug 17, 2008 18:26:21	Well in the game my friend DMs, a 4e campaign, my friends are a bit shy about RPing at the table, as is normal for people who, myself included, have only been playing D&D together for a few months. I've been buying books/learning the rules/searching for groups for the past 2 years, but I just recently got my friends into it. Anyhow, they're usually a tiny bit shy about it, so I do my best when I'm a player to roleplay as many conversations as possible. Which then lets them know someone else is comfortable with RPing, so they begin to do the same. When I DM, a 3.5 campaign, same people, so still a little shy, but I reward RP'ers with things like bonus xp for good RP, if you can make a good speech you can use it in lieu of a roll for Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate etc., and you can haggle with shopkeeps for better deals through conversation. Giving little extra bits is a good way to get players interested in RP, however, you gotta keep it small so that players who don't enjoy roleplaying aren't left in a ditch just because they prefer the hack n' slash.
#22 zaydrache Aug 18, 2008 13:44:44	Well there have already been very good ideas for getting people more into RP. That’s great but some people just aren’t that good at it. If the above solutions don't work or your dm isn't on board there is a alternate solution to keep people involved. Also if they aren’t involved make sure they know what they are doing. 1. Make sure everyone has all their powers on some kind of power cards. These can be index cards the cards from the character sheet pack or 3rd party. As long as you have the basic information on the card and know what dice you are using, the modifiers, and the effects that is mostly what you need to know. This will let people make sure they know what they can do and help people take their turns faster. 2. If possible use a battle mat with some kind of token. That way if someone isn't paying attention all they have to do is take a quick look and they can know who is where and what they need to do. 3 Visible initiative order. Try to have the DM visibly keep track of combat order preferably with the player and character name on the tracker for easy reference. This way you can remind people of approaching before everyone is waiting on them. 4. Let people preroll. While the previous person is taking their turn allow others to plan their turn and roll the attack and damage (this takes some trust and shouldn't be used if you have stealth rollers in the group). If used in conjecture with the power card you can indicate what power you are going to use and then roll to hit and damage and then use the rolls to better describe the action. Something like if you hit with good damage you describe a solid attack that lands. If you miss you can describe barely missing a strike to the head or being confused which foot goes first and causing you to miss wide. As I said this isn't an option in all groups but can be used in some. If the DM uses these it makes combat flow easier and allows even the slowest players to keep up.
#23 dragonsblood Aug 18, 2008 16:32:37	1. Make sure everyone has all their powers on some kind of power cards. These can be index cards the cards from the character sheet pack or 3rd party. As long as you have the basic information on the card and know what dice you are using, the modifiers, and the effects that is mostly what you need to know. This will let people make sure they know what they can do and help people take their turns faster. While I think the basic idea is a good one, as a DM I really don't like excessive index card use. They tend to get lost and mixed up easily, which just wastes time, and they can be a pain to clean up and store. Instead you should just write a brief description on a piece of paper like the back of your character sheet or a lined piece of paper that you stable to your character sheet. I actually write small enough that I can fit a full description in the standard character sheet power boxes by using shorthand.
#24 lord_qzip Aug 21, 2008 20:15:35	Well, I currently have 2 groups. Group 1 is a bunch of older dudes (I'm in college, they seem 30's 40's to me, but I suck at ages). We play a "it's too late for me to role-play" game. We all want to role-play (with the exception of maybe one), it's just we spend 2 hours (at least) waiting for the DM to get ready to set up the session (since he does no preparation beyond thinking anymore, I think he's getting burned out with us as a group but likes the story which we don't seem to care much about, but do). Anyway, I try to stick to the actions my character would use in combat when I'd want to role-play. We pretty much spend the time fighting and wishing we weren't. Side talk is common but not all the time. I try to walk over to the person I'm having a side conversation with because I've noticed crossing sound waves makes it hard for other people to hear stuff. The other group I have is with all people from my high school (I'm just going into college). I used to DM until yesterday when I handed over the reins to another. We've gone through a lot of dynamics (based on who's DMing). We started out as "let's devolve into neanderthals upon starting the game session and get nothing done". When I was DM, we glossed over many parts until we decided something was worth role-playing. While pretty much everyone plays themselves with pointy ears (except me, muhaha!), we had some good RPing scenes. Some games we had 5 encounters (plus the RPing to get there, we usually play for like 6-10 hours straight) and others we only get through 1 (and get a lot of role-playing ground covered). They really enjoy combat too (especially in 4ed, they pay so much more attention and actually, you know, think about what they're going to do). They're inclined to being "Chaotic Good" people. I'm now playing a female (I'm actually a male) dragonborn warlord who used to be a pirate and so hates pig headedness, trusts no one, makes friends with everyone (until she's done with them), and fights to her advantage, using her allies when they're intelligient and letting them die when, say, they run right INTO THE MIDDLE OF ALL 3 ENEMIES (I made her worship the Raven Queen which is where this role-playing gem comes from). Ahem, anyway, apparantly I play a woman far too well, because one of the players happened to forget that I was, in fact, a dude after the game. Needless to say, maybe I shouldn't always talk in-character during the game. So... anyone else have dysfunctional friends? Lol.
#25 sirkaikillah Aug 21, 2008 20:32:43	That sounds like most of the Dnd games I have played in over the 25+ years I've been playing. I think it has been said before lead by example. Learn the character names and use them. As much as possible address others in character. Bring up the issue with the other players and the Dm. But be prepared for blank stares. I know for us, in combat the focus is in the mechanic, because the game is new. But as we gain experience the people I play with are getting better at describing how there powers play out in roleplaying terms.
#26 johnthedm7000 Aug 22, 2008 0:14:26	While I'm not currently DM'ing a D&D game, both my Mutants and Masterminds and White Wolf games stay on topic (with people occasionally making movie quotes and talking about issues) with a whole lot of in-depth roleplaying that mixed in with some combat. I can't wait to actually get all of the D&D books (given that I'm low on cash) so when I finally do my campaign will probably be along the same lines.
#27 dmparagon Aug 22, 2008 16:58:36	My group is pretty serious. Here is usually how it goes: 6:00pm: game start 6:30pm: all the week in our life talking is down 6:31pm: DM starts off 10pm: Game ends we pretty much stay on task. Tricks I use to accomplish this: 1: I let them not playh the first 30 mins. I just realize it's a time honored tradition since the start of D&D. 2: while in game, use only character names 3: We hafve an E-mail group where we take in and out of character all week long, so there is not an exess of stuff to talk about on game day. 4: during game play, I stand up alot, talk in a louder, more forceful voice (I have all the attention that way, ask alot of questions of the characters to keep thier brains ingaged, 5: to transition from 30 min chat session to game time, I recap the last game by reading it from my blog here: http://baldur06.spaces.live.com/ of course, the occasional funny things happen, we lagh awhile and get back to it. Players should take it upon themselves to stay in game, but it's the DM's job to facilitate that happening.
#28 DrWorm Aug 22, 2008 18:06:48	4: during game play, I stand up alot, talk in a louder, more forceful voice (I have all the attention that way, ask alot of questions of the characters to keep thier brains ingaged, This is a great suggestion. I do this alot as well, and it draws the attention to the DM. I also will up my speed of talking and my energy level as the situation warrents it.