Now, I don't want to discuss the fact that I've taken Mounted Combat + Ride-By-Attack + Spirited Charge as feats (being a mount myself/whether I am allowed to take them or not, house rules so whatever). I'm just curious to know, now that I have the feat and considering the centaurs charging ability...
How much damage do I make when I charge with a lance? Double? Triple? Quadruple??
Med. Lance does 1d8
+ Centaur 1d8
+ Spirited Charge 2d8
+ associated bonuses (STR, +'s, etc)
= 4d8 + bonuses.
I forgot where I read this...
If I'm reading it right ...
Med. Lance does 1d8
+ Centaur 1d8
+ Spirited Charge 2d8
+ associated bonuses (STR, +'s, etc)
= 4d8 + bonuses.
Wow. That's pretty serious damage for a non-magical weapon. Cool stuff.
EDIT: Aren't Centaurs large creatures?
Wow. That's pretty serious damage for a non-magical weapon. Cool stuff.
EDIT: Aren't Centaurs large creatures?
SRD only had Small and Medium weapon sizes; besides, the die size isn't affected, so as long as the math is correct, all you have to do is change the dice. And yeah, but you *do* have to charge to get that, so it's not going to be usable in every situation.
Thus, [number] x2 = [number] (base) + [number]
[number] x3 = [number] (base) + [number] + [number]
Combining x2 and x3 becomes [number] (base) + [number] (the x2) + [number] + [number] (the x3) = [number] four times.
A Centaur, being Large, would use a Large lance...base damage 2d6, final total 8d6 + ([Str mod x 1.5] x 4) With a 22 Str, that's 8d6+36
He can use a Huge lance at -2 to hit (which the charge bonus counters). A Huge lance's base damage is 3d6, for a final total of 12d6 + ([Str mod x 1.5] x 4).
The easiest way to think of it is: each "x" after the first = "the same base number again."
Thus, [number] x2 = [number] (base) + [number]
[number] x3 = [number] (base) + [number] + [number]
Combining x2 and x3 becomes [number] (base) + [number] (the x2) + [number] + [number] (the x3) = [number] four times.
A Centaur, being Large, would use a Large lance...base damage 2d6, final total 8d6 + ([Str mod x 1.5] x 4) With a 22 Str, that's 8d6+36
He can use a Huge lance at -2 to hit (which the charge bonus counters). A Huge lance's base damage is 3d6, for a final total of 12d6 + ([Str mod x 1.5] x 4).
Yowza, that's some serious damage!
They are used one-handed, and that means damage bonuses are calculated as for one-handed weapons; +Str bonus to damage, and a bonus to damage equal to the penalty taken to the attack roll if Power Attack is used.
From the FAQ :
You can get a host of benefits from wielding a twohanded weapon, such as 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage (and twice your damage bonus from the Power Attack feat) and a +4 bonus on your opposed attack roll if someone tries to disarm you. So when is a weapon “twohanded?”
For example, a lance is a two-handed weapon, right? But you can wield it in one hand when you’re mounted. Since the weapons table shows that a lance is a two-handed weapon, I get all the two-handed benefits no matter how I wield the lance, right?
Wrong. Table 7–5 in the Player’s Handbook lists weapons as light, one-handed, or two-handed strictly as a matter of convenience. These size categories are always relative to the wielder’s size, as explained in some detail in the section on weapon size on page 113 in the Player’s Handbook.
When the combat rules speak of “two-handed” weapons, they’re referring to how the weapon is being used. A Medium character using a Medium longsword in two hands is using a “two-handed” weapon. The same character using a Medium lance in one hand while mounted is using a one-handed weapon. Light weapons are an exception. If you wield a light weapon in two hands you get no advantage on damage (see page 113 in the Player’s Handbook). Likewise, you always take a –4 penalty on your opposed roll when you’re wielding a light weapon in a disarm attempt (when someone tries to disarm you or you try to disarm someone) regardless of whether you wield it one- or two-handed.
Lances are two-handed weapons for determining the actual size of the object.
They are used one-handed, and that means damage bonuses are calculated as for one-handed weapons; +Str bonus to damage, and a bonus to damage equal to the penalty taken to the attack roll if Power Attack is used.
From the FAQ :
I notice it says you 'can' wield it one-handed while mounted. So you could still do the 2h ver if you so choose, right?
I notice it says you 'can' wield it one-handed while mounted. So you could still do the 2h ver if you so choose, right?
Yep. The FAQ is just clarifying that you don't get the 2H benefits unless you are actually using it with 2 hands.
A Centaur, being Large, would use a Large lance...base damage 2d6, final total 8d6 + ([Str mod x 1.5] x 4) With a 22 Str, that's 8d6+36
He can use a Huge lance at -2 to hit (which the charge bonus counters). A Huge lance's base damage is 3d6, for a final total of 12d6 + ([Str mod x 1.5] x 4).
wow... I need to make a centaur...I thought they couldn't use it at all because it's too big. In any case it's easy to charge for high damage.
Until your charge gets put on hold because of that damn blade of grass!
Light undergrowth should be CR 20. ;)
Until your charge gets put on hold because of that damn blade of grass!
Light undergrowth should be CR 20. ;)
Woodland Stride: yet another reason Druid is the most powerful Core class.
1) Centaur class is not full BAB, and ECL leaves you below par.
2) Once you have charged, that's all your bonuses gone. Subsequent rounds you have to fight with a normal weapon, unless you either have spring attack or withdraw to charge again.
It's a great initial damage dish-out, but afterwards ...
I notice it says you 'can' wield it one-handed while mounted. So you could still do the 2h ver if you so choose, right?
It depends how it's being used, like every other weapon.
If the wielder is static, it can be used as a two-handed weapon, while if the wielder is charging down a foe on the back of his trusty steed, it is a one-handed weapon. Bonuses to damage are calculated accordingly.
In the OP's scenario, it will always be a one-handed weapon.
Bear in mind the disadvantages of this:
1) Centaur class is not full BAB, and ECL leaves you below par.
2) Once you have charged, that's all your bonuses gone. Subsequent rounds you have to fight with a normal weapon, unless you either have spring attack or withdraw to charge again.
It's a great initial damage dish-out, but afterwards ...
Monstrous HD go grant full bab, though that LA+2 leaves it with the equivalent of 3/4 bab. Still, its racial +8str more than makes up for this.
If you use tome of battle, nab sudden leap to jump away as a swift action, then charge again.
Until your charge gets put on hold because of that damn blade of grass!
Light undergrowth should be CR 20.
Throw in leap attack to circumvent the optimized player killer that is difficult terrain...:D
It depends how it's being used, like every other weapon.
If the wielder is static, it can be used as a two-handed weapon, while if the wielder is charging down a foe on the back of his trusty steed, it is a one-handed weapon. Bonuses to damage are calculated accordingly.
In the OP's scenario, it will always be a one-handed weapon.
It is said in lance's description that it CAN be wielded one handed when mounted. That doesn't mean that you can't use it in two-hands.
Until your charge gets put on hold because of that damn blade of grass!
Light undergrowth should be CR 20. ;)
Which just shows how pathetic non magical classes are eh? :evillaugh
It is said in lance's description that it CAN be wielded one handed when mounted. That doesn't mean that you can't use it in two-hands.
Interesting.
Frankly, I don't see how you can wield a lance in two hands when on a charging mount, so have always interpreted that to mean that you do wield it one-handed. That's certainly the meaning of the FAQ.
Guess I'm just going to have to make that an official houserule. When using a lance from mountback, it is always a one-handed weapon.
It depends how it's being used, like every other weapon.
If the wielder is static, it can be used as a two-handed weapon, while if the wielder is charging down a foe on the back of his trusty steed, it is a one-handed weapon. Bonuses to damage are calculated accordingly.
In the OP's scenario, it will always be a one-handed weapon.
And One-handed weapons can be wielded with two hands, so the centaur could use it two-handed?
Which just shows how pathetic non magical classes are eh? :evillaugh
Anti. Magic. Field.
And Suddenly, those bonus feats look pretty damn good.
Interesting.
Frankly, I don't see how you can wield a lance in two hands when on a charging mount, so have always interpreted that to mean that you do wield it one-handed.
Keep in mind that part of the problem when fighting from horseback is the horse's head - which is always directly in front of you, in the way. This makes two-handed strokes rather difficult. Centaurs, of course, lack this problem.
Another issue is shield use - your traditional mounted lancer carries a shield, to help keep other lancers from doing unto him as he would do unto them.
It is absolutely possible to use both hands while mounted, both IRL and in D&D (DC 5 Ride check to guide with knees - a 1st-level fighter cannot fail this). Using a weapon two-handed is theoretically possible, at least. And by RAW, you can wield a one-handed weapon two-handed to get that Strength-and-a-half.
That's certainly the meaning of the FAQ.
No, that's your interpretation of the FAQ. The FAQ states that
When the combat rules speak of “two-handed” weapons, they’re referring to how the weapon is being used. A Medium character using a Medium longsword in two hands is using a “two-handed” weapon. The same character using a Medium lance in one hand while mounted is using a one-handed weapon.
This explains that you don't gain two-hander benefits unless you're actually swinging the weapon with both hands. Nowhere does it indicate that you can't wield a lance (or other one-handed weapon) in two hands - just the opposite, in fact.
Anti. Magic. Field.
And Suddenly, those bonus feats look pretty damn good.
Fail.
Keep in mind that part of the problem when fighting from horseback is the horse's head - which is always directly in front of you, in the way. This makes two-handed strokes rather difficult. Centaurs, of course, lack this problem.
Another issue is shield use - your traditional mounted lancer carries a shield, to help keep other lancers from doing unto him as he would do unto them.
Then maybe allowing centaurs to use the lance two-handsd might be ok.
No, that's your interpretation of the FAQ. The FAQ states thatWhen the combat rules speak of “two-handed” weapons, they’re referring to how the weapon is being used. A Medium character using a Medium longsword in two hands is using a “two-handed” weapon. The same character using a Medium lance in one hand while mounted is using a one-handed weapon.
This explains that you don't gain two-hander benefits unless you're actually swinging the weapon with both hands. Nowhere does it indicate that you can't wield a lance (or other one-handed weapon) in two hands - just the opposite, in fact.
Reread that sentence from the FAQ again. It doesn't say "The same character using a Medium lance in one hand while mounted can wield the lance one-handed." It asserts that the lance is being used one-handed.
The options here are (i) use the lance mounted as a one-handed weapon, or (ii) use the lance dismounted as a two-handed weapon.
In the long run though, it doesn't matter. If you play in my game, those are the rules you will follow. If I play in yours, I'll follow your rules.
from the srd
While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
Reread that sentence from the FAQ again. It doesn't say "The same character using a Medium lance in one hand while mounted can wield the lance one-handed." It asserts that the lance is being used one-handed.
The options here are (i) use the lance mounted as a one-handed weapon, or (ii) use the lance dismounted as a two-handed weapon.
I disagree. The FAQ does not address whether a lance can be used two-handed while mounted; it merely notes that a lance being used one-handed while mounted - as lances typically are - does not gain the two-handed weapon bonuses.
A longsword is also a "one-handed" weapon. It is normally used one-handed, but this doesn't mean it can't be used two-handed.
In the long run though, it doesn't matter. If you play in my game, those are the rules you will follow. If I play in yours, I'll follow your rules.
True enough ;)
Until your charge gets put on hold because of that damn blade of grass!
Light undergrowth should be CR 20. ;)
No joke. Difficult terrain has managed to stymie even the most optimized of PCs where conventional monsters have failed...:P
No joke. Difficult terrain has managed to stymie even the most optimized of PCs where conventional monsters have failed...:P
Fear the grassy gnoll.
>.> Your entire calculation is off. I don't have my Monster Manual on me, but I thought that the Centaur's double damage with a lance was because it's treated as mounted. A human wielding a lance from horseback deals double damage, and triple with spirited charge. A centaur wielding a lance deals double damage, and triple with spirited charge. The only difference in damage is from the size of the lance the centaur is wielding.
So a human on horseback would look like
Med. Lance does 1d8
+ Mounted 1d8
+ Spirited Charge 2d8
+ associated bonuses (STR, +'s, etc)
= 4d8 + bonuses.
?
And the only thing I got wrong on my original post is that Centaurs are Large, and therefore use Large instead of Medium weapons, right?
Edit: Oh, gods, I just got Sunic's joke. That's horrible.
So a human on horseback would look like
Med. Lance does 1d8
+ Mounted 1d8
+ Spirited Charge 2d8
+ associated bonuses (STR, +'s, etc)
= 4d8 + bonuses.
?
And the only thing I got wrong on my original post is that Centaurs are Large, and therefore use Large instead of Medium weapons, right?
Edit: Oh, gods, I just got Sunic's joke. That's horrible.
I looked at your calculations and noticed that you didn't multiply the Str bonuses for spirited charge. Is that a mistake or in the rules? Also, if the lance has an enhancement bonus, would that get multiplied by SC too?
Edit: Oh, gods, I just got Sunic's joke. That's horrible.
:evillaugh
I looked at your calculations and noticed that you didn't multiply the Str bonuses for spirited charge. Is that a mistake or in the rules? Also, if the lance has an enhancement bonus, would that get multiplied by SC too?
I just lumped them in under "bonuses," but yes, I believe that they would also be multiplied to 4x - but someone with a regular lance and no STR bonus would look just like that. Again, unless I'm missing something. Then again, I hate math, so it's entirely likely.
So a human on horseback would look like
Med. Lance does 1d8
+ Mounted 1d8
+ Spirited Charge 2d8
+ associated bonuses (STR, +'s, etc)
= 4d8 + bonuses.
?
And the only thing I got wrong on my original post is that Centaurs are Large, and therefore use Large instead of Medium weapons, right?
Nope. You've added an extra d8.
Lance base damage = [x] (since lances come in different sizes.
A centaur or mounted warrior deals double damage with a lance = 2*[x]
Spirit Charge lets you deal double damage with a melee weapon or triple damage with a lance. After reading the feat description, I believe this is intended to include the lance's normal double damage...otherwise, there would be no need to specifically note lances as being different. Thus, Spirit Charge = 3*[x], not 4*[x]
Now that we're dealing triple damage, we add all damage bonuses not expressed as extra dice - Strength, enhancement, Wepon Spec., smite, etc - and triple them as well. Extra dice - sneak attack, flaming, frost, etc - are added at the end, not tripled.
Thus, our final total is 3*([x] + [bonuses]).
For a human with 18 Str (assuming one-handed) and a +1 lance, that's 3d8+15 (base 1d8+5)
For a centaur with 22 Str (assuming two-handed), and a +1 lance, that's 6d6+30 (base 2d6+10).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that, on a critical hit, a lance deals triple damage. As noted above, you don't triple the tripling - instead, add the base damage twice more.
Our mounted human would do 5d8+25 on a crit.
Our centaur would do 10d6+50 on a crit.
3X(2X)= 4X
Check page 5 of the Rules Compendium for details. It also hidden somewhere in CORE.
Fail.
I guess making jokes are now cause for hostility. C'mon, Sunic, from what I've seen you're a pretty class act, don't go ruining that rep now.
I guess making jokes are now cause for hostility. C'mon, Sunic, from what I've seen you're a pretty class act, don't go ruining that rep now.
Oh really? I thought you were being serious. You did click the link right?
The major drawback is that you can't into tight spaces and your mount may not be welcome in town (mounted halflings/gnomes are popular for this reason; Halflings getting their own juicy PrC as well)
I also think you're doing it wrong. Lances do double damage when a mounted character charges. You are not a mounted character. Centaurs are treated as mounted characters for some purposes and that is where the x2 damage with lance charges comes from.
Therefore you only get x3 on a lance charge with Spirited Charge and x5 on a crit.
The damage output is much greater from wielding the Lance 2-handed and it seems probable that it didn't occur to the writers that people would do so -it also doesn't make much sense to wield a lance 2H while mounted ..but D&D and sense do not enjoy a close relationship.
The MM says centaurs get double damage if they use a lance and charge with it. So I've taken the feat Spirited Charge, and it says lances make triple damage (upon charging).
Well, anyone "mounted" does double damage with a lance when charging, per SRD.
I prefer to have my centaurs use two-hand swords and charge feats like powerful charge and leap attack. Barge in, overrun, and keep hacking without dropping the lance that cannot only be used against adjacent foes.
G
My centaur has STR of 20, so how much damage do I actually cause? I suck at math.
After reading these replies I'm still rather confused.
My centaur has STR of 20, so how much damage do I actually cause? I suck at math.
Str 20 = +5 bonus. Centaurs are large = Large lance = 2d6 base damage
If you're using the lance one-handed (per normal rules), you do:
2d6+5 damage normally,
doubled to 4d6+10 when you charge for being a centaur,
or tripled to 6d6+15 for having Spirited Charge.
On a charging crit, you do 10d6+25 (x3 + x3 = x5).
If you're using the lance two-handed, you add 1.5 times your Strength mod, or +7 for a Str of 20. This gives us:
2d6+7 normal
4d6+14 centaur charge
6d6+21 Spirited Charge
10d6+35 charge-crit.
If you acquire a magic lance, add the enhancement bonus to damage, doubled when you charge, tripled if you have Spirited Charge, and quintupled (5x) when you charge-crit.
Personally, I like to write these formulas out on my character sheet, especially with a crit-happy PC (like my current paladin...smite + crit FTW!) so I don't hold up the game with number-crunching.