I see a feat or power come up in a CharOp thread, and think about whether this fits with my character. I play a swordmage; the White Lotus Riposte line of feats would be phenomenal. But I am unsure how to bring them into the game.
The reason: I bought the books and worked for a few months to get a game started, but am not DMing because I'd never played a tabletop RPG before. Another person had experience with 3rd edition, so it seemed best to let him take the wheel until the rest of us figured things out.
The problem is that if I'm the only one interested in optimizing my character within the limits of the concept, my character will (of course!) be overpowered. I either built or helped to build most of the other characters in the party, to make sure the characters would do what the players said they wanted them to do. I think I did a pretty good job. And we're all still new to this (Level 2).
So should I try to bring in outside material, when I'm the only one doing it or even looking for it? I don't want to disturb anybody's fun, or make the GM feel trapped (since I got the game started in the first place, and I seem to still be a bit more familiar with the rules than he is). I can't see a way to optimize without putting pressure on everyone else to do the same. I want everyone to enjoy the game, but a part of the game I enjoy is making my character effective.
Any pertinent personal anecdotes, advice, or ramblings are welcome. And I know talking to the DM about it is the first step.
I intend to. I would appreciate insight on how.That doesn't even touch the issue of subscribing to DDI: if I am the only one using it and I'm not the DM, the potential for problems seems huge. A bonus question, I suppose, or one for another day.
Thanks for your help.
Perhaps in time they'll get more into the mechanics, but going on your own will likely be problematic as you suggest for the other players and the DM (encounter building).
Just don't get too attached to the idea, because he could very well decline, and he's within his rights to do so.
Good luck.
PtM
It will depend on the group. If the other players are just new to the game and haven't bothered or had time yet to learn how to make stronger characters then it probably isn't a big deal. Just make your character kick butt and take names. Pretty soon the other players will begin to wonder how you did that and they'll want to do it too.
If the group really just has little interest in combat or tactics then there are a couple of possible reactions. They may welcome the fact that they have a powerful combat character to help them out when they fight. Or they might start to feel resentful of your character's combat strength. It is a matter of how they play, what sort of game the DM runs, etc. It could be no problem at all or it could present issues.
In a good group it should be OK. In a not so good group it may be bad. I would just make the character and play it and see what happens. Don't go overboard though. Optimize your character but don't go out of your way to exploit cheese. That way if it is provoking unrest you can explain that you just made a character like everyone else did, you just happen to be better at making it fight well and you'll happily share that knowledge. If you cheese up the character people will decide your a munchkin.
There is the more general question of how does a player fit in when he's optimizing his character to a much greater degree than the rest of the players?
Ah yes, I've seen games like this before. Put the Tempest Fighter/Daggermaster/Punisher of the Gods in the same group with the Gnome Barbarian ("I have an axe! My mom made it for me!"), and watch the hilarity ensue. And by hilarity, I mean immense character disparity.
In general I've found that it works well to bring the most experienced and powerful optimizer down a notch or two for the good of the game, and perhaps give that player a less obvious place to work. Optimizing a leader doesn't threaten the other party members nearly as much as optimizing a striker (usually).
However, you should also talk to the GM (and probably the other players) to let them know that you're interested in using Insider material and other books in the game. Eventually some or most of them may join you in expanding the horizons of the gameplay to see what things their characters can REALLY do.
But whether or not anyone else wants to go nuts with all the resources at their disposal, communication will be key in making sure everyone is on the same page.
If you're the only defender in the party and you optimize to be the stickiest one on the team? No. They'll love you. You're keeping bad guys away at an optimized level.
Stepping on toes means that you're doing someone else's job. If you're optimizing for damage, you're stepping on a Striker's job. If you're optimizing ranged and area condition attacks, you're stepping on a Controller's job. If you focus on buffing allies, you're stepping on a Leader's job. If you're just making sure your enemies are drawn to you and can't get away... you're doing your job, and really well. If they don't like that, I'm not sure what to say. I suppose they'd be mad about something more than the character.
I'm the DM of my group, and my husband is one of the players in the group. We're the only ones with a DI subscription. Plus, my husband loves optimizing characters, and he's playing a striker, so there's risk of his character outshining some of the others.
So we spend a decent amount of time looking through new material and thinking about the other PCs. We come to the game and talk about some of the cool new feats or powers that might be useful to different people. We pick one player whose PC is maybe not shining as much as others, and introduce her to Winter Cheese. We don't force any changes on anyone, of course, and we are very careful not to offend them with how we share these ideas - but we do share the information so they can make their own decisions.
Hopefully your group wouldn't be threatened by your doing something like this. After all, 4E is very much about teamwork, and if you present it that you're just trying to extend the teamwork to sharing new options with them, that shouldn't cause problems. And that might keep your PC from ending up too much "better" than the others. Good luck!
Printing out the information for the DM to decide on makes so much sense that I might never have thought of it on my own.
I also don't intend to use frostcheese or anything resembling it.
Helping others to optimize their characters is also fun for me, and I would do so if I could be sure not to pressure people. Beginnings are such delicate times, and given that I already helped build most of the characters, I fear any suggestion or offering about their build could seem peremptory. Talking to the DM about Insider content may be the best way to broach the topic.
The party's composition:
- Eladrin Shielding Swordmage (me)
- Tiefling Fey Pact Warlock
- Deva Panther Shaman
- Tiefling Staff Wizard (with stats allowing Orb wizard at paragon)
- Human Artful Dodger Rogue
They're good people, and I don't think anyone would have problems with optimizing in principle. People are still learning the ropes, though, and I don't want to give them too much to handle. So I think I will talk to the DM. If he thinks having more options wouldn't be too much, I think I'll spring for a DDI subscription. After this adventure, I suspect the DM role will rotate to me, so it will be useful regardless.
Thanks for the help. And I welcome further suggestions! (And links to ideas about Panther Shaman optimization!)
Talked to the DM and he's fine with the non-book material. We talked about finding stuff for the rest of the party, too. Especially the shaman, who thinks her feat options are garbage.
Thanks again!