Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jadebrain May 31, 2011 5:47:17	So, here's the deal... I have been getting really, really into the development of my current character, Hector "the Devilborn" Rodriguez (as shown in this thread: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... ). So much so that I even have ideas for a quest to continue the campaign I'm in after the current quest is done, ideas which I would love to see fleshed out in-play. The problem is, I do realize that, as a member of a party, I should not consider my character's story to be the main priority of the campaign. Doing so would probably ruin the fun for the rest of the group, and I would hate to be the cause for the rest of the group not having fun. I guess what I'm asking is, how can I, as a player, play out the destiny of my character without ultimately being an egotistical jerk to the rest of the party? For those of you who don't have the oodles of free time required to read the thread linked above, here's a summary of my character: Show Hector Rodriguez is the son of a Dragonborn female and a Tiefling male (mechanically a Dragonborn Infernal Pact Hexblade), made possible through the intervention of a well-intentioned yet somewhat jinxed exarch of Sehanine. Of course, in the extremely prejudiced Dragonborn community he was born into, the existence of such an abomination was an insult to Dragonborn everywhere, and so an angry mob was formed to kill Hector and his parents. His father sacrificed himself by holding back the mob while Hector and his mother escaped, and eventually, the mother and son found their way to a group of Dwarven Druids, who knew of a prophecy regarding the importance of a "spawn of dragon and devil" in future events. Hector was constantly bullied for his dual heritage in his youth, during which he learned how to channel the infernal power in his blood. Still, he wanted to prove to the world that he was a good person, and so he only manifested his infernal power to train for a life of heroism, rather than to attack the bullies. Eventually, it came time for the first part of the prophecy to unfold: Hector was to help guard a caravan sent to found a settlement where a great hero was to eventually be born centuries into the future. This is where the campaign currently is at. In Hector's future, however, I have decided that he will make a name for himself as a great hero, so that he may return to his place of birth and rub his heroism and their hatred in their faces help to end the racial prejudice in that town. During his stay, he will find out that his father, Miguel Rodriguez, was actually an epic hero in an adventuring party from the past. The adventuring party was dedicated to helping repentent devils in overthrowing Asmodeus and restoring the Nine Hells back to being a decent place, but they were cursed by Asmodeus, who took away their epic powers and sent them into the future where their adventures were nothing but obscure legend. Hector will then take it upon himself to finish his father's quest, finding help from some of the same repentent devils that were helped by Miguel (thus explaining some mechanical features that Hector will gain in later levels).
#2 pluisjen May 31, 2011 5:51:30	While I don't really have time to read the specifics about your character the best way to tell your character's story without making the other players having a bad time, is getting them invested in your story. Make your story their story as well and they will gladly follow you.
#3 slobo777a May 31, 2011 6:04:46	While I don't really have time to read the specifics about your character the best way to tell your character's story without making the other players having a bad time, is getting them invested in your story. Make your story their story as well and they will gladly follow you. This. Have the PC share his background at the Inn or around the campfire with the other PCs. Do it in small doses to avoid hogging the spotlight, and to keep other players' short attention spans (and keep it in their memory). Also: Improvise. Don't fix plot specifics in stone, such as locations, what the next steps have to be etc etc, don't plan too far ahead on what's going to happen - because as a player unlike the DM, you have no ability to railroad (this is a good thing). Instead, ad-lib story elements in with mind to your goal. Discuss it OOC with DM and players if possible too. React to suggestions from other players and the DM, so that stuff fits together for the team. If another player has their PC mention some story element thats important to them, try and see if you can bind the two stories together, on an equal footing for both PCs, so that perhaps you are both related indirectly to the same ancient epic adventuring group (must be fate that brought you together!) Of course, to improvise in details of your own back story and have it be "active" in the game, your DM at the very least needs to be on-side that you are doing this, and be willing to tweak things so that the things you come up with are relevent. So do talk it through with him. Key improv skills: Yes, and . . . a good improviser takes what has gone so far, and builds on it, doesn't tear it down, adjust things beyond recognition or criticise. Trust . . . a good improviser passes control to the next person, trusting that they will follow the "yes, and..." pattern, and implicitly agrees to whatever the next person adds. Negotiation . . . if things move too far apart because of completely different angles on where things are heading, stop it to clarify details and find a path you are both happy with.
#4 jadebrain May 31, 2011 8:16:17	Well, since we don't meet for a couple of days, I can only speculate how I could fit in the other player's characters into the story with the player's approval... Let's see... going through the player characters... The Dwarven Druid who first found Hector and his mother belongs to a group of druids called the Avalanche Callers... perhaps Asmodeus is planning on upsetting the natural order, and the Avalanche Callers are trying to stop him? There's a Human Taclord raised by Dwarves, though I don't know a lot about his motivation, so I got nothing on him. Finally, there's an extremely egosistical Human Mage who might be interested in a position of power in the Nine Hells after the overthrow of Asmodeus. Like I said, this is all speculation, since I meet with the group in a couple of days, and I also recognize that each player has the final say in how, or if, they'll fit in.
#5 SomeKinda May 31, 2011 11:54:30	Really you should give the DM the main hooks for your character background and let him or her be the one to decide what happens with it and when.  Ideally the DM will do this for every character and their respective backgrounds. So you won't be the "main" character, but you will be the spotlight character for when you return to your hometown and perhaps your party will help you fulfill your destiny (especially if you use the advice above and get them interested in it). Then another player will have their turn at having their spotlight and their story gets fleshed out. It depends on how good your DM is. Right now though it looks like you've got your beginning, middle, and end planned out for your character. I suggest keeping it a lot more open ended. Where's the fun if you already know what happened to your father, who to blame, who you'll meet at your hometown, and what to do about it, even if your character doesn't? Let the Dm tell a story! They get to have fun too : )
#6 SpacyRicochet May 31, 2011 12:34:12	Indeed. It's the DM's job to provide the narrative in which the player's characters live out their destiny. You should however let your DM read what you want your character to do loosely. All that stuff about your father being an epic hero? Imagine how much more awesome it would have been if you didn't actually come up with that yourself, but your DM suddenly tells you that. You just ruined it for yourself. As SomeKinda says, ideally your DM has asked for the backgrounds of all the characters and some suggested hooks that the players might enjoy and create his narrative around that. You won't be the main characters, since that's the job of the entire party. You will have some spotlight time when your hook is up. Frankly, I think you're making two mistakes. First, deciding that you are the main hero, just because you spent a little more time on your background than other players. Second, deciding that you won't die! Please remember that death is always an option in D&D.
#7 congzilla May 31, 2011 12:47:05	While it is good to have a fleshed out character background and future goals you have to remember, they are just goals.  You shouldn't have any expectation of them working out exactly as you plan.  In reading the last paragraph of your background you are deffinitely over stepping your bounds as a player in doing the DM's job of writting the campaign.
#8 orin_skullcrusher May 31, 2011 13:04:13	Really you should give the DM the main hooks for your character background and let him or her be the one to decide what happens with it and when. This. Making sure the story includes everyone is the DM's job. Having your past planned out is one thing, but you have to let the future rest in the DM's hands and be ok with that. As in life, things don't always go the way you planned and that can be a good thing. Though I can sympathize. In my group, I am really the only one who wrote up a detailed back story, so the campaign was heavily flavored in my character's direction. Occassionally, there are minor groans, but the DM is quick to remind them that if they want their character's story involved, all they need to do is write one. If they don't they have no grounds for complaint. Do the other character's have their own story? If not, encourage them to write one, or in character, ask them about their past and a story might emerge. Keep in mind that, going forward, your story and their story are one in the same. What do you see as the destiny of your group, not just your character? Why are you together? Is this a long standing relationship or a temporary one?
#9 jadebrain May 31, 2011 13:19:19	You know what? You're all right. In retrospect, all I started with for my character was an idea of how a character could have gotten infernal powers without making pacts with devils, so I made Hector half Tiefling. Then, I wanted justification for an unrelated flavor decision made due to a combination of a temporary lack of creativity and a seemingly desperate need for visual detail on my character, and I came up with the idea that Hector's father was an adventurer. Suddenly, I wanted to go back to explaining away the infernal powers without making deals with devils, this time making a story of how some repentant devils wanted to repay a debt to Hector's father, and that grew into Hector's father being an epic hero so that he would have gained favors from repentant devils in the first place. And then... it just goes on... I guess, in all of my over-thinking and trying to flesh out my character, I lost sight of why I play DnD in the first place: To have fun experiencing a fantasy world through the eyes of a hero. And, as you mentioned, where's the fun if I already know the outcome? Fortunately, I have not suggested any of the more complex flavor to my DM yet, so getting away from that will be much easier. All my DM knows about my character is that he's half-Dragonborn, half-Tiefling, and while escaping from an angry mob, his father decided to stay behind and stall the mob while the baby Hector was carried away by his mother. Thank you all for this revelation.
#10 jadebrain May 31, 2011 13:30:20	Really you should give the DM the main hooks for your character background and let him or her be the one to decide what happens with it and when. This. Making sure the story includes everyone is the DM's job. Having your past planned out is one thing, but you have to let the future rest in the DM's hands and be ok with that. As in life, things don't always go the way you planned and that can be a good thing. Though I can sympathize. In my group, I am really the only one who wrote up a detailed back story, so the campaign was heavily flavored in my character's direction. Occassionally, there are minor groans, but the DM is quick to remind them that if they want their character's story involved, all they need to do is write one. If they don't they have no grounds for complaint. Do the other character's have their own story? If not, encourage them to write one, or in character, ask them about their past and a story might emerge. Keep in mind that, going forward, your story and their story are one in the same. What do you see as the destiny of your group, not just your character? Why are you together? Is this a long standing relationship or a temporary one? The other characters have their own stories, but what I've seen of their stories shows that they have not put all that much thought into their character's flavor. Perhaps the most developed character in the campaign, other than my own, is the egotistical mage; he is in a constant search for power, he joined the party because he saw the other PC's as potential servants, he was conned into buying what he thought was the Slaying Stone of Kiris Dahn (it's really just a rock), and he apparently thinks that he's too good for physical activity. The next most developed character is the Dwarf Druid, who has been flavored to turn into a flying swarm of pebbles, and was the one who my character's mother turned to for help after escaping her hometown. He is aware of a prophecy in which the "spawn of devil and dragon" will, among other things, help found a town that will produce a great hero in the future. Finally, there's the Human Warlord, whose only flavor is that he was raised by dwarves, and so has adopted dwarven customs and mannerisms. I think it is a good idea to try and engage the rest of the party in roleplaying exercizes.
#11 congzilla May 31, 2011 13:31:00	Fortunately, I have not suggested any of the more complex flavor to my DM yet, so getting away from that will be much easier. All my DM knows about my character is that he's half-Dragonborn, half-Tiefling, and while escaping from an angry mob, his father decided to stay behind and stall the mob while the baby Hector was carried away by his mother. There is nothing wrong with mentioning all of it to your DM, but I wouldn't do it as a demand or even as a request.  Just show him what you have come up with and let him use bits and pieces as he sees fit.  You never know, he might have other ideas already that tie in well to some points where you end up with an even better story than what you had initially planned.  Just present it as , hey man I really over thought my character, here is what I wrote if you feel like using any of it.  Then just leave your back story to what is known, facts of the past.
#12 jadebrain May 31, 2011 13:37:49	There is nothing wrong with mentioning all of it to your DM, but I wouldn't do it as a demand or even as a request.  Just show him what you have come up with and let him use bits and pieces as he sees fit.  You never know, he might have other ideas already that tie in well to some points where you end up with an even better story than what you had initially planned.  Just present it as , hey man I really over thought my character, here is what I wrote if you feel like using any of it.  Then just leave your back story to what is known, facts of the past. That's a good idea, too... Thanks for the help. I truly appreciate it.
#13 orin_skullcrusher May 31, 2011 13:38:44	There is no harm in giving your DM your back story. In fact, the DM should be privy to such information. He is supposed to know everything regarding your character... even moreso then your own character does (ie, your father isn't really your father or some such info your character wouldn't know). I know my DM is hungry for backstory information. It makes his job MUCH easier as far as tuning future events and customizing things so that they are specific to your characters. Just make sure your story makes sense and are OK with the DM taking liberties with it. For instance, my backstory involved the mysterious disapperence of my extended family while my character had gone off on my own. The DM started peppering the story with artifacts showing my family crest. Some of those artifacts were the Magic Items given out as loot. So the items have much more importance to my character than just loot. The details made the story so much more fun.
#14 jadebrain May 31, 2011 13:52:48	There is no harm in giving your DM your back story. In fact, the DM should be privy to such information. He is supposed to know everything regarding your character... even moreso then your own character does (ie, your father isn't really your father or some such info your character wouldn't know). I know my DM is hungry for backstory information. It makes his job MUCH easier as far as tuning future events and customizing things so that they are specific to your characters. Just make sure your story makes sense and are OK with the DM taking liberties with it.  Yeah, I see what you're saying... And, I know that this is regarding perhaps the least important bit of what you said, but my character, despite looking mostly like a Dragonborn, has the horns and tail of a Tiefling, and his father was pretty much the only Tiefling in town at the time (it was a very small town), so there's no doubt that Hector's supposed father is, in fact, his real father. I was also toying with the idea that a well-meaning yet somewhat jinxed exarch or servant of Sehanine did some genetic engineering to make such a conception possible. But yeah, more to the point, that is good advice, to say that I should be okay with my DM taking liberties and such...
#15 orin_skullcrusher May 31, 2011 15:26:19	Also, when giving a backstory, purposely provide hooks that the DM can easily run with. In reading the Players Stradegy Guide, it mentions that too often, a player will provide a background story that leaves nothing for the DM to grab onto (everyone is dead, no strings attached, etc). It suggest providing details that a DM can easily bring into the story, such as family and relationships, enemies, unresolved plotlines, phobias, addictions, etc. I made many, if not all, of these mistakes when I wrote my background, thinking a clean slate would be good, but it seems the opposite is true.
#16 jadebrain Jun 01, 2011 7:26:35	Also, when giving a backstory, purposely provide hooks that the DM can easily run with. In reading the Players Stradegy Guide, it mentions that too often, a player will provide a background story that leaves nothing for the DM to grab onto (everyone is dead, no strings attached, etc). It suggest providing details that a DM can easily bring into the story, such as family and relationships, enemies, unresolved plotlines, phobias, addictions, etc. I made many, if not all, of these mistakes when I wrote my background, thinking a clean slate would be good, but it seems the opposite is true.  Thanks for the advice. I came up with the following material for Hector's family, friends, and enemies: Family: Yllanys Zyrephon-Rodriguez Show Yllanys is a kindhearted Dragonborn with a nurturing personality. While she is still emotionally scarred by the death of her lover, Miguel Rodriguez, at the hands of the angry mob, she feels much more sorrow and pain rather than anger and bitterness at the hateful attitudes that led to Miguel's death. Yet, for the sake of her child and all that she has left, she still manages to put on a brave face and earn a living as a farmer. Though Hector has concern for her well-being, he has learned not to try to help his mother, for she will always refuse help, saying that she's fine and that there was never any need to worry. She also enjoys the warm welcome that the leaders of her new home have given her and her son, though sometimes she just wishes they could accept Hector for who he is rather than for what some old prophecy says about someone matching his description.
#17 Grimalden Aug 04, 2011 15:34:11	Really you should give the DM the main hooks for your character background and let him or her be the one to decide what happens with it and when. This is exactly why I'm forcing my players to give me their hooks before the campaign starts. It's not just going off on a tangent to fulfill your own personal needs, a DM can more artfully work it into the larger picture. At that point, it's not just your story. Players won't mind taking part in your story as long they don't have to travel hundreds of miles to do something completely unrelated.
#18 sirkaikillah Aug 08, 2011 23:28:22	I think you have valid desires for your PC.  I think the key is to work with the Dm and other players when developing your PC's goals and backgrounds.  Instead of being the star of your PC's own quest, you become costar with the other in the game on your collective quest. I have recently realized that it is best for a gaming group to develop Pc's, backgrounds, and goals together with the DM. When Pc's background are created independently in a vacuum, then that is where they will usually stay.  If your group is going for the in depth character development role playing, then spend a session or even two, developing backgrounds, NPC allies and rivals, as well as PCs' goals.  If a group does this, it will go a long way in meshing various PC's goals with the Dm's overall story arc.
#19 mousewithchainsaw Aug 09, 2011 14:39:10	I agree with most the others, adding the others to your story is the best bet. And having a background and goals for chars is always extremely helpful for dm. Setting future goals can be very tricky however and its often best to start off small. Right off the bat with "I want to over throw the most powerful demon that all other demons and even gods fear" Is a massive step that, unless your DM is a pushover or overly friendly, will never happen. However "I want to take out this one powerful demon that took over this nation in said world I'm playing in." Not only is a way more realistic goal but something a DM can aim and works towards. Maybe the other players family was from that nation and something bad happened to them. Or the power hungry mage heard whispers about a powerful magic staff in the vaults of said nation. I know the post is old but it seemed to get bumped so figured Id add my two cent.