I already offered to DM 4e game (I have the three core books), but instead we started our current game (we started at level 3 and are now at level 12, and problems with spellcasters are starting to escalate - IMHO). I need advice how to convince my friends to try 4e when this campaign ends, so our next game will be 4e, and not 3.5.
I know there are tons of 3.5 vs 4e threads out there, but I would really appreciate some arguments from people that played both editions. Arguments that I could pass on to my friends.
Thanks in advance.
It will also depend how mechanics-heavy your game is. Some people play with only passing reference to the rules; others make it all about the rules. Where you'll get most resistance is "rules as world" (or world-sim) players, who'll find 4E's "here are the core mechanics, flavour as desired" approach alien.
2. Plan a 4E night and invite them all.
3. Make sure their is food.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
It will infect them. I promise you.
but i disgress, ask them that you want to try GM'ing 4th as a one or two-shot game if only to try it out as a favor to a friend once this campaign is over, or even on another night to keep the normal 3rd ed game schedule going (we play 4th on mondays, 3rd on wednesdays).
Keep in mind though they still might not like it even after trying it. (I played it and didn't care much for it.)
So...
1) Get to know the rules.
2) DM a light, simple one shot.
3) Pre-make characters.
4 (depending on the group) Simplify some rules, like ignore magic item powers, or don't have any powers/creatures that inflict statuses.
5 (Most important) Have fun with it!
Repeat, with more plot/character customization/rules.
I'd drop 4. 4E is already simple to play, no need to simplify it further.
Probably, especially since they're 3rd players, but it was necessary for a group of newbies. They wouldn't of tried it if it required reading a manual first.
Papa Chester's proud of you!
Made a good food, made quite a number of sheets, power cards and so on.
Asked them to come for a one night fun.
Everyone felt they had some use in battle, the wizard destroyed minions at the level 1 (Oh my i'm not a pool of mud at the first levels!, imagine at 10th level!)
The fighter got plenty of marking opportunity attacks.
The rogue killed things out with his sneak attack..
They all liked much mor in 4th what they did before... in 3.5.
Oh..and the tip is: Make it short.
Leave a desire for more in their hearts.
Perhaps a tiny adventure with 60% good story roleplay and 40% action that ends just before the confrontation with the little BBEG;
And when it was supposed to start the battle you say:
Oh sorry guys...i hadn't made the mechanics on this guy. Can we continue next week?
However both of them killed 3.5..for themselves (and some others) by doing this. One finds high level play too easy, and only wants to play lower level campains..the other feels like he's 'beaten the game' and just prefers 4e because he can't find a way to beat it yet.
So beat the game..and help others beat the game..that should help with 4e......
That said, there will be people who dislike the game. I've tried 4e multiple times, since the first time was with a new GM, who wasn't very good(owns the local game shop, has GMed for a while, but just isn't a very good storyteller), running the god awful Keep on the Shadowfell module, without adapting it for a 3 person group. However, I never grew to like it, and prefer to avoid playing it. I much prefer playing 3.5, and prefer any number of systems to that.
The thing is that if you are no longer having fun with the game, tell them. Let them know why you aren't having fun and that you would like to try something else. If they won't, decide if you have fun playing with them despite the problem or if a change of people would alleviate it as well.
1. Demonstrate the broken superiority of spellcasters. Play a caster and take spells that make non-casters feel useless. Like Knock. Also use a lot of invisibility and flight in combat and then combine with nasty spells like Orb of Force (ranged touch attack, no saving throw), and Firebrand (do lots of damage to virtually every enemy on the battlefield without touching your allies). If you get the game into high level its even easier to break. Just start casting Disjunction everywhere, all the time.
2. Use spells to bypass the DM's plot. Murder mystery? No problem, with Speak with Dead. Even better, just raise them if you have a cleric in the party. Lots of Scry-Buff-Teleport combos are great for driving DMs insane. Why storm the bad guys castle when you can scry him, and then teleport into his bed chambers and assassinate him? Spam this tactic repeatedly.
3. Derail combat by demanding an accurate accounting of every last bonus when buffs or debuffs come into combat. Every time a PC or a monster attacks or saves, ask "How did you get the roll? Break that bonus down for me. You know bonus X doesn't stack with bonus Y, right?" Also, use lots of buffs that change ability scores (and thus cause bonus changes to cascade across the board for that PC) to exacerbate this effect. Also cast lots of Dispel's on the DMs enemy casters and make sure the DM correctly debuffs the monster by constantly questioning the numbers.
Also when buffs get cast on you, take your time painstakingly calculating your new bonuses. Be sure to hold up combat while you do so and don't let the DM skip your turn. If he tries to do that, than just add a +10 to all your rolls and if he says there is no way you could get the result, calculate it all out in front him and then apologize for being wrong. But by this time combat will have been stopped anyway. Result achieved.
4. Remind others how much their limitations suck. When fighting undead or constructs, tell the rogue player, "Too bad you're class is worthless vs. this guy, man."
5. Remind others how much the rules in general suck. "Wait guys, I don't think we are using Grapple correctly. I'm going to look it up and read it to everyone again to make sure we are doing it by the book."
Or when failing a critical confirmation roll say, "This sucks! Where is the joy of rolling a 20 when you fail the confirmation roll? Way to suck the fun out of the game!"
Or remind anyone who got energy drained to make their Fort save and then commiserate with them about how much it sucks to be level drained when they fail the save. Then make sure they actually de-level their character instead of glossing over it like a lot of 3.5 players do. Make sure you really impress upon them how much that mechanic sucks.
6. Annoy the DM by saying, "Are you sure monster X can do that?" and then pull out your monster manual and look it up. Use this one subtly though. You want to illustrate the flaws of the game but not make it seem like you are purposefully trying to sabotage it.
I'm sure I can think of more things but thats a start.
Part II is to offer an alternative. Bring some of your 4e books to games and peruse them at the table. If you have DDI and a laptop, play with the character builder at the table during breaks.
Don't push 4e at all, rather let the other players natural curiousity and growing discontent with the flaws of 3.5 lead them to ask you questions as you read the books or play with the character builder in their presence. Always be enthusiastic and positive in your response.
Avoid any opinioniated comparison of the editions, unless specifically asked how 4e does something differently. And even then focus on the positive of 4e and don't talk about the negatives of 3e. Overtly criticising 3e might make some people defensive and feeds the natural stubborness and resistance to change that all humans possess. Besides if you did a good job in part I, then no criticism should be necessary. The flaws in 3e and the improvements in 4e will be obvious, and the other members of the group will better accept that if they feel like they made that conclusion on their own.
Simple. You bring all the flaws of 3.5 into sharp and ugly focus.
nasty spells like Orb of Force (ranged touch attack, no saving throw), and Firebrand (do lots of damage to virtually every enemy on the battlefield without touching your allies)
Assuming a DM allows those spells.
If you get the game into high level its even easier to break. Just start casting Disjunction everywhere, all the time.
And watch the Dm unleash it on the party and have the other players turn on the offending player.
2. Use spells to bypass the DM's plot. Murder mystery? No problem, with Speak with Dead.
only if the dead knows who was responsible.
Even better, just raise them if you have a cleric in the party. Lots of Scry-Buff-Teleport combos are great for driving DMs insane. Why storm the bad guys castle when you can scry him, and then teleport into his bed chambers and assassinate him? Spam this tactic repeatedly.
Assuming the bad guy has not placed protections
Also when buffs get cast on you, take your time painstakingly calculating your new bonuses. Be sure to hold up combat while you do so and don't let the DM skip your turn. If he tries to do that, than just add a +10 to all your rolls and if he says there is no way you could get the result, calculate it all out in front him and then apologize for being wrong. But by this time combat will have been stopped anyway. Result achieved.
And, if the DM is not stupid, you get kicked out for being disruptive.
4. Remind others how much their limitations suck. When fighting undead or constructs, tell the rogue player, "Too bad you're class is worthless vs. this guy, man."
So be annoying to your fellow players?
5. Remind others how much the rules in general suck. "Wait guys, I don't think we are using Grapple correctly. I'm going to look it up and read it to everyone again to make sure we are doing it by the book."
Rules lawyering is frowned upon by most groups unless asked for by the DM. Good way to get kicked out from many groups
Or remind anyone who got energy drained to make their Fort save and then commiserate with them about how much it sucks to be level drained when they fail the save.
Again, be annoying to your fellow players.
Then make sure they actually de-level their character instead of glossing over it like a lot of 3.5 players do.
Um, if you are not the DM, it is not your responability.
Make sure you really impress upon them how much that mechanic sucks.
Again, annoying your fellow players
6. Annoy the DM by saying, "Are you sure monster X can do that?" and then pull out your monster manual and look it up. Use this one subtly though. You want to illustrate the flaws of the game but not make it seem like you are purposefully trying to sabotage it.
Well, for all you know the DM may have advanced the monster, added a template, added a class, or found a variant. Since, the DM is not required
to show you the monster, you won't know.
And, since, several of your things are intentionally trying to sabotage others fun, many of your suggestions would get a player kicked out of many groups. If one is going to the level you suggest to make the point you are suggesting , its better to just bow out graciously rather than be immature and sabotage others fun
The best advice is I guess - try to organize a session or two, and bribe them with food and drinks
Comments are, from the cleric - I would like to return to the 3e - everything stacked even more - he said that only half jokingly.
Wizard - I didn't play out all 3.5 splatbooks - he even mentioned playing a bard in that sentence.
I will nevertheless still try to organize a 4e night.
We played another session yesterday, and it was great fun that lasted well into the night. Roleplay and fun and atmosphere was great, but mechanics....
I'll describe our party - I'm very interested in the comments.
We are all 12th level now.
monk 1/druid 11 (now reincarnated into a bugbear body) - with vow of powerty, nymphs kiss from the start, and lots of nice little feats from BoED - charging and graplling machine - with few buff spells - full attack on charge - all touch attacks - ungodly damage...
cleric 4/church inquisitor 8 dwarf, almost constantly enlarged, buffed and buffing melee machine using a warhammer dealing between 8d6 to 12d6 plus some bonus damage - this guy changed character from monk to this at level 10 - he felt a little inadequate I am sure.
rogue 1/wizard 5/spellwarp sniper 3/fatespinner 3 gray elf - crafter, blaster, spotter (spot 23 - he insists this is important
), and save or suck caster with maximised INT - currently at 29, now going for the tomes of intelligence, I guess.I play human warblade 12 - (first time ToB appeared in our group) using diamond mind and iron heart disciplines - with maximized concentration - in melee I can keep up with with the damage dealing with those three guys above
And last - ranger 2/ rogue 7/shadowdancer 2/sword sage 1 - newest addition to our group - we allowed her to take sword sage at level 12 and take 3rd level stance (assassins stance) - she can use any help she can get.
We played two combats - after buffing for more than an hour, we dismantled some construct in round and a half, then missed a teleport to the next room room (wall of force blocked it) and ended up in a butchery next door (we were hunting a cult beneath a paladin-like knightly order... Only way back into the fray was teleport/dimension door, and we run out of that).
Later that night we were under attack (in the church run by our cleric) - by casters - 2 clerics, 3 sorcerers - I witnessed a pretty intense battle between our casters and enemy casters.
Wow, that was a long post. Thanks to anyone who managed reading through all this.
Oh..and the tip is: Make it short.
Leave a desire for more in their hearts.
A one shot is a good idea, and wrapping it up right before the final battle is fun.
I really like this advice
. Thanks!Eh..just do what happened in my group. We got a couple of people who MUST build the most optimized char they can. They'll roleplay wonderfully, but they can't bring themself to make a char who would make a suboptimal choice.
This is quite similar to our group, but I guess we still didn't tire of kicking but - except me. Anyway, DM throws really nasty stuff at us all the time.
I must add that we exclusively run only 3.5 DnD. We didn't even try anything else. Except me I guess, I started with old Star Wars some 15 years ago, before switching to DnD.
Kwat - sorry, but what you are suggesting is rather extreme. I refuse to sabotage fun of my friends intentionally (although I am quite a rules lawyer, I'm afraid).
And, since, several of your things are intentionally trying to sabotage others fun, many of your suggestions would get a player kicked out of many groups. If one is going to the level you suggest to make the point you are suggesting , its better to just bow out graciously rather than be immature and sabotage others fun
...Greg also said it quite nicely.
But, actualy, Kwat - a lot of things you suggested my friends are doing already...
use a lot of invisibility and flight in combat
check - wizard, and did I also mention visiting sorcerer, that plays with us sometimes?
Speak with Dead -
check - cleric
Lots of Scry-Buff-Teleport combos
check - wizard, sorcerer, druid, cleric, rogue also has a ball of scrying, wizard and sorc have teleport, druid has transport via plants, cleric can return us with word of recall
use lots of buffs that change ability scores
check - lots of casters...
cast lots of Dispel's on the DMs enemy casters
check - lots of casters, one of them is church inquisitor with bead of karma
and so on...
When suggesting classes, try to suggest builds that emulate concepts they like in 3ed. Don't tell them to play a Paladin, tell them their Paladin can be like a Knight (PHB2) or an Eldritch Knight, and help them choose powers that fill that space.
Monk/Druid: Straight-up Druid, with emphasis on unarmed strikes.
Cleric/Inquisitor: Warlord, perhaps Bravura or Resourceful
Spellwarp Sniper / Fatespinner: Warlock, Starlock if you can work the stats.
Shadowdancer / Swordsage: Swordsmage with Rogue multiclass.
*******************************************
Also, it might be useful if you showcase monsters that the players are familiar with, but show the difference in 4ed. In this article ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dred/2009Mar ) , Bart notes how a 4ed Roper truly matches the flavour of the Roper, crunch fits the fluff as it were. The PCs might like to see Kobolds actually be sneaky instead of speedbumps.
Assuming a DM allows those spells.
And watch the Dm unleash it on the party and have the other players turn on the offending player.
Simple. I'd be like why are you getting mad at me? I'm playing the game BY THE RULES? What's the problem? If the spell is in the book, I should be able to use it. Besides, I'm not DMing. If the DM nuked your items, that's an issue with the DM.
Assuming the bad guy has not placed protections
Every bad guy? Every time? Then I'd be asking the DM if you are going to nerf everything then why are we playing it at all with these spells?
And, if the DM is not stupid, you get kicked out for being disruptive.
So be annoying to your fellow players?
In other words, the rules are so broken and crappy that simply trying to make sure you play by them is construed as annoying and disruptive? That's a winning argument right there.
And, since, several of your things are intentionally trying to sabotage others fun, many of your suggestions would get a player kicked out of many groups. If one is going to the level you suggest to make the point you are suggesting , its better to just bow out graciously rather than be immature and sabotage others fun
Sure, some of my examples are over the top and if the group is having a blast playing 3.5, and the OP is truly the odd man out, he would indeed be better off just leaving the group.
But if the other players are on the fence and already frequently grumbling about this or that element of the game. Then some subtle and tactful nudging can help get them to try something they'll probably like better.
Kwat - sorry, but what you are suggesting is rather extreme. I refuse to sabotage fun of my friends intentionally (although I am quite a rules lawyer, I'm afraid).
Well it sounds like you already play with some hardcore powergamers. Anytime Vow of Poverty comes into play, I think powergamer. And I don't mean that as a criticism. I'm a powergamer myself.
Well, if your DM is already used to handling all the curves balls these guys throw at him, then forget everything I posted in my first post. He's going to be a 3.5 veteran DM who won't bat an eye.
I suggest just be positive about 4e, offer to run a game and keep bringing your books to the table so others can see the coolness.
Simple. I'd be like why are you getting mad at me? I'm playing the game BY THE RULES? What's the problem? If the spell is in the book, I should be able to use it. Besides, I'm not DMing. If the DM nuked your items, that's an issue with the DM.
Just like Orblocking is in the rules?
In other words, the rules are so broken and crappy that simply trying to make sure you play by them is construed as annoying and disruptive? That's a winning argument right there.
I'm pretty sure demanding the players check their bonuses after every roll they make would be as annoying as sin in 4e as well, just slightly less time consuming. Most veteran 3.5 players shouldn't take long anyway - I don't recall anyone who wasn't a newbie having trouble figuring out what stacked.
Likewise checking the MM every time a monster does something - a lot of DMs don't let players check the MM in the middle of combat, and even if they did I fail to see how this would be more annoying in 3.5 than stopping combat to read up on monster powers every time they use an attack in 4e. You're not demonstrating flaws, you're being a jerk because the rest of the group isn't playing your way.
Furthermore, I'd think it would be pretty obvious to most of the players that you were intentionally trying to drag the game down, which in my experience doesn't make them want to listen to your ideas.
But if the other players are on the fence and already frequently grumbling about this or that element of the game. Then some subtle and tactful nudging can help get them to try something they'll probably like better.
I don't think any suggestion that begins with the words "Derail combat" or "Annoy the DM" is subtle or tactful, or particularly indicative of good sportsmanship.
Simple. I'd be like why are you getting mad at me? I'm playing the game BY THE RULES?
I'm not getting annoyed at you. I don't even know you. I am pointing out what most people would consider problem behavior.
As for playing by the rules, there is something called playing by the *spirit* of the rules which assumes people are not going to be a jerk looking to the game, find loop holes or rules exploitations, go out of their way to ruin the fun of the other people at the table, annoy the DM, etc. (and I am not implying that you advocated all of these).
oh, and that is not tactical nudging. The advice you gave was to be a jerk and most people are not going to listen to you. The best advice is for the OP to simply offer to run a game of 4e, explain why he thinks it might be a better fit, and hope the others give it a try.
I don't think any suggestion that begins with the words "Derail combat" or "Annoy the DM" is subtle or tactful, or particularly indicative of good sportsmanship.
QFT.
Simple. You bring all the flaws of 3.5 into sharp and ugly focus.
It's already been said, but most of your suggestions involve being a jerk, you know that right?
1. Demonstrate the broken superiority of spellcasters. Play a caster and take spells that make non-casters feel useless. Like Knock. Also use a lot of invisibility and flight in combat and then combine with nasty spells like Orb of Force (ranged touch attack, no saving throw), and Firebrand (do lots of damage to virtually every enemy on the battlefield without touching your allies). If you get the game into high level its even easier to break. Just start casting Disjunction everywhere, all the time.
And assuming the DM lets you get away with this, eventually you'll run into parties made up entirely of Firebranding, Orb/Force-using Sorcerers. Anything you come up with, an intelligent DM can do as well. And if you're doing something to prove a point, it's not going to go over well with anyone.
2. Use spells to bypass the DM's plot. Murder mystery? No problem, with Speak with Dead. Even better, just raise them if you have a cleric in the party. Lots of Scry-Buff-Teleport combos are great for driving DMs insane. Why storm the bad guys castle when you can scry him, and then teleport into his bed chambers and assassinate him? Spam this tactic repeatedly.
What if the DM has no plot? What if every 'plot' is actually a hack-n-slash adventure - until an enemy party of Magic-Users uses Scry-Buff-Teleport to nuke the party in their sleep? And does this every time a player is a jerkass? Congratulations - now the game is no fun for anyone, and it's all your fault.
3. Derail combat by demanding an accurate accounting of every last bonus when buffs or debuffs come into combat. Every time a PC or a monster attacks or saves, ask "How did you get the roll? Break that bonus down for me. You know bonus X doesn't stack with bonus Y, right?"
Question: Is the DM required to tell the player this?
Also, use lots of buffs that change ability scores (and thus cause bonus changes to cascade across the board for that PC) to exacerbate this effect. Also cast lots of Dispel's on the DMs enemy casters and make sure the DM correctly debuffs the monster by constantly questioning the numbers.
Also when buffs get cast on you, take your time painstakingly calculating your new bonuses. Be sure to hold up combat while you do so and don't let the DM skip your turn.
Jerk moves bolded. If you take too long to go during combat, any DM worth his/her salt has every right to skip your turn.
If he tries to do that, than just add a +10 to all your rolls and if he says there is no way you could get the result, calculate it all out in front him and then apologize for being wrong. But by this time combat will have been stopped anyway. Result achieved.
So, because the DM decides you're taking too long and skips you, you decide to CHEAT??? And expect people to *NOT* realize what you're doing?
4. Remind others how much their limitations suck. When fighting undead or constructs, tell the rogue player, "Too bad you're class is worthless vs. this guy, man."
So when you've run out of ways to irritate the DM, you start irritating the players? Why *should* these people game with you if you're just trying to make their choices look stupid?
5. Remind others how much the rules in general suck. "Wait guys, I don't think we are using Grapple correctly. I'm going to look it up and read it to everyone again to make sure we are doing it by the book."
Boy who cries wolf effect. Do this more than a few times - especially if you all *were* doing it correctly - and people won't listen to you. Then they'll kick you out for being a jerk.
Or when failing a critical confirmation roll say, "This sucks! Where is the joy of rolling a 20 when you fail the confirmation roll? Way to suck the fun out of the game!"
Oh, you who are so easily pleased. Here's a system for you: Roll a die (it doesn't matter what kind of die). The number you roll is the number of planets you've destroyed. Keep rolling until you get bored.
Or remind anyone who got energy drained to make their Fort save and then commiserate with them about how much it sucks to be level drained when they fail the save. Then make sure they actually de-level their character instead of glossing over it like a lot of 3.5 players do. Make sure you really impress upon them how much that mechanic sucks.
That's the DM's job. You have no business managing another player's character unless you're asked to by that player.
6. Annoy the DM by saying, "Are you sure monster X can do that?" and then pull out your monster manual and look it up. Use this one subtly though. You want to illustrate the flaws of the game but not make it seem like you are purposefully trying to sabotage it.
Your MM is wrong. And passive-aggressive behavior is more likely to get people ticked with you than with the system, *especially* if it's new behavior. If someone is a decent player for a while, then starts complaining about everything and raising a fuss, wouldn't most people want to know why? You keep trying this crap, you'll get caught out and people will kick you out.
You catch more flies with bullcrap than you do with vinegar. Or something. Anyway, you need to make trying out 4E to look fun, and without any obligation. If they don't have to give up their 3E game, they might be more amiable.
I fully claim to be opinionated, but I like to try things before forming said opinions.
Or, if something bad happens, like your character dying, then I'd make another spell-caster and go the Rune-bomb route. If you don't know what a rune-bomb is, well.......you can PM me for details :P
Simple. You bring all the flaws of 3.5 into sharp and ugly focus.
.
Two questions:
1) How is acting like a douche bag and telling poeple their having Badwrongfun going encourage them them to play 4e with you?
and 2) How is that douchbaggery is a flaw with the 3.5 rules set? Further how does 4e fix/prevent douchbag players from riuning other poeples fun?
Lol....Knock...broken...Lol
You catch more flies with bullcrap than you do with vinegar. Or something.
I think the expression is "You catch more flies with honey ..." implying you use sweet or good things to get people near you not bitter things.
-In case you seriously were confused on the expression
) I will checkout Dungeon Delve, as this seems like a good idea. Also, what is the best published 1st level adventure out there (4e)? Since this will be my first time running (and playing) 4e, I would like to do my research. For the story I have lots of ideas, original and stolen, but for combats I will probably peruse some published material - at least in the beginning.
I also took this route:
I will feed my fellow players information about broken spells and combos (any suggestions?). I will also suggest the player optimization forum.
For example: my friend who plays the wizard was reading this thread with me, and I suggested him the polymorph spell, since he didn't use it until now - although he likes to abuse shapechange when he plays high enough level). We agreed that choker was to much, but that leaves what? Hydra? War troll? I didn't check out what ooze is available at 12 HD. What are other interesting/broken monsters at 12/13 HD?
His intention now is to cast polymorph on all of us - when some dire situation arises. And of course that means next session.
But I am afraid that he will have endless fun with his new found polymorphing power, and I will enjoy the game slightly less then now. And I think my character will refuse being turn into a troll, or some other abomination - it seems like a path to easy power and corruption.
What you could try to sell them on is faster action, if your combat currently drags. Or the flatter power curve, which for some people is a big improvement. There's also improved class balance - but if they're all experienced with the system, this isn't really an issue. Be aware though - 3E and 4E are different games, and some people just like one more than the other.
But running a one-shot is definitely worth a try. They may discover they like 4E more than they thought.
Simple. You bring all the flaws of 3.5 into sharp and ugly focus.
Any one can break any game if they try to. 4E is not different. This tactic would most likely get you booted from game.
I enjoy both 4 and 3.5.
3.5 does have more "do anything" then 4 does. If the group is mature enough, and knows the system enough, and everyone plays a spell caster, the freedom can be a great thing. It does have an excess number of rules though. Is annoying that the book has rules for crafting a spoon. Without a houserule, some thing can be very annoying.
4 is far more streamlined, tactical combat is fun, and PC's feel more like a group, partly because one man cannot do everything, although this does limit freedom a bit. Their is both more and less room for creativity and cool characters. Power can seem wonky, like making an ooze prone, but you don't have to "waste" skills to a profession (baker).
Currently i still i favor 3.5, but as more books and mags come out, 4 may overtake it, they seem to be expanding nicely, if cautiously and a bit slowly. More different types and feels of powers/classes, if they can maintain balance while doing it, and it would really shine.
I would recommend everyone give 4 a solid try. Play it for at least a few levels.