How to deal with inconsistent XP rewards - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

How to deal with inconsistent XP rewards

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
gamersince1980
Mar 08, 2012 22:10:35 Honestly, this will probably end up being more than half rant, and I apologize.

My current DM tends to play things fast and loose, with enough homebrew to keep us in the dark about the capabilities of our adversaries. Now, we've been playing a 3.5e campaign for a little over two years, and it's usually apparent that he hadn't decided beforehand how well we should be rewarded, which can be irritating and frustrating. A prime example of this happened some time back; after a particularly harrowing encounter with a boss-level enemy, we were given what I felt was a meager reward. I asked about this, and his immediate response was to increase the reward five-fold.

Most recently, we encountered the enemy that we believe will be the final boss and a couple lackeys. The combat lasted from the beginning of one session until nearly the end of the next (We play every two weeks, for six or more hours at a time). We killed the lackeys but the boss escaped. We are a high level group (I'm old school about other player's privacy, but I think we currently range in levels from 16 to 18)

Now, we usually play until close to midnight, and I wake up at 6 a.m., and I wasn't at all wakeful by the end of the session. As a matter of fact, the host woke me up on his sofa more than an hour after the session was over. The DM explained to me that I had been docked some XP for not playing the whole session, and I agreed that this was more than fair. Again, being old school, I haven't and won't inquire about the other player's rewards. Then he told me how much XP I had been awarded.

750.

Seven hundred and fifty experience points. For nearly twelve hours of table time. For battling and defeating an enemy who was almost definitely level 25 and maybe (at the extreme edge of possibility) as high as 40.

In retrospect, I'm not angry, just disappointed. He has known for a while that I hope for more consistency from him, so when it comes to broaching the subject, I'm not worried so much about him getting his feelings hurt, but I don't think it's likely to have a significant effect.

I hope this isn't TL;DR. Comments and advice are welcome!
#2
zyraen
Mar 08, 2012 23:41:50 The advantage of being old school, is that possibly no one else knows the XP you have been awarded, 750 XP.
So consider talking to your DM in private, and ask for a percentage of what was the general value of the XP.
He can consider if that is fair.

Meantime, I'm not sure if you have a set XP award for the Encounter as a whole.
I make it a point to award Players for "beating" the Encounter, as opposed to slaying monsters and badguys, since they don't get the XP until they actually KILL the thing, and that might be part of the reason why you (and possibly everyone else) didn't get much XP. The Level 40 Bad Guy ran away, so you got no XP from him, and I understand in D&D 3.5E with high powered spells, its much easier to run away without too much DM "magic".

So you might want to consider checking with your friends (fellow players) if they'd prefer
- being awarded for beating an Encounter instead of killing enemies
- being awarded a PERCENTAGE of that Encounter XP value (ranging from say, 60-80%) if its not "fully completed"
Then from there table it to the DM as a group rather than an individual.

====================

As the next note, understand in earlier editions the XP awarded is quite different for different creatures.
It might be worth to draw up an "average" XP required to level up for every level, and then dividing it by say 100, as a general idea for how much XP to award per Enemy of that level.

Alternatively, the DM can guess-timate a level for each enemy, but he may not have time to prepare XP calculations.
So you have a Player in the group who asks the DM after a fight the level for each enemy, notes them down, and gives a quick XP calculation (in writing) to the DM. So the DM can decide how to apportion the reward (I guess from what you say that it is rarely, if never, evenly distributed)
#3
Kaganfindel
Mar 09, 2012 13:29:02 I've never understood XP penalties for having to leave early. The punishment for missing the end of a game session is missing the end of the game session. The rest is insult added to injury.

Is this XP award going to permanently set you behind the rest of the party, or do you think you'll have opportunities to cover the lost ground? How big a deal is getting short shrift on one encounter in the grander scheme of the campaign? You also mentioned that he's given the whole party what you considered to be very little experience for an encounter in the past. Are you sure he wasn't just falling back on that habit? If so, the difference between your share and your teammates' shares might be negligible.

In the end it's not about the paycheck; it's about the pace. If you guys are gaining levels at a pace the group can agree is fair and fun, don't sweat the individual increments of advancement. If that's not the case, if the party is gaining levels too quickly or too slowly or too unevenly, then it's something for all of you to discuss dispassionately and with a focus on settling on a pace everyone enjoys.
#4
crowscape
Mar 10, 2012 14:36:23
I've never understood XP penalties for having to leave early. The punishment for missing the end of a game session is missing the end of the game session. The rest is insult added to injury.

What's more, I've never seen someone being docked XP for delaying the game by arriving late. Which is a real insult when you arrive on time, have to wait an hour for the person to show up, then have to leave an hour before the game ends because the time got pushed back.
#5
zyraen
Mar 11, 2012 21:07:02 @Crowscape : hear hear...!
*scribbles down in handy notebook*
#6
randomvirus
Mar 14, 2012 0:13:49 Isn't xp supposed to be one of those DM Discretion things? I personally hate hearing about DM's that impose penalties on players for real life getting in the way of a DnD session. Also, where do you get your stamina to play DnD for 12 hours? My group of 30 somethings start at 9pm and are sleepy at midnight...

Anyhoo...

It's been my understanding that awarding xp is up to the DM. And the amount the DM awards (if any) can be tailored to the speed the DM wants to level the party. Maybe if the DM wants to keep you in a certain range, well isn't that up to him? It's from the 4e DM guide, but paraphrasingly: DM's that want parties to level quick or slower can adjust xp rewards.

Along those lines though, I don't know why the DM would have such a range between members in the same party. Personally, I keep all my players at the same level, they level up at the same time if somebody misses a session or two or three I don't dock them xp, as long as the bulk of the group plays and continues to play, there's no reason to punish people who have a life outside of the table.

This is why I'm not fond of old school DM's or old school players, well, old schoolers who are stuck in their ways. Nothing wrong with an old schooler that changed with the times.
#7
Iry
Mar 17, 2012 22:22:38 Penalizing a player for real life issues is generally the mark of a bad GM. There is no reason why your character cannot continue to do important and experience generating things while you are unable to participate in the game. Pushing you, as a player, just indicates a lack respect for your time and contributions.

If he has a problem with your attendance or participation he should talk to you personally and see what the the two of you can work out to increase your ability to participate or bow out of the game.
#8
lolabonne
Mar 17, 2012 22:25:07
Penalizing a player for real life issues is generally the mark of a bad GM.

Agreed. The penalty for not getting to play D&D is not getting to play D&D.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gamersince1980 Mar 08, 2012 22:10:35	Honestly, this will probably end up being more than half rant, and I apologize. My current DM tends to play things fast and loose, with enough homebrew to keep us in the dark about the capabilities of our adversaries. Now, we've been playing a 3.5e campaign for a little over two years, and it's usually apparent that he hadn't decided beforehand how well we should be rewarded, which can be irritating and frustrating. A prime example of this happened some time back; after a particularly harrowing encounter with a boss-level enemy, we were given what I felt was a meager reward. I asked about this, and his immediate response was to increase the reward five-fold. Most recently, we encountered the enemy that we believe will be the final boss and a couple lackeys. The combat lasted from the beginning of one session until nearly the end of the next (We play every two weeks, for six or more hours at a time). We killed the lackeys but the boss escaped. We are a high level group (I'm old school about other player's privacy, but I think we currently range in levels from 16 to 18) Now, we usually play until close to midnight, and I wake up at 6 a.m., and I wasn't at all wakeful by the end of the session. As a matter of fact, the host woke me up on his sofa more than an hour after the session was over. The DM explained to me that I had been docked some XP for not playing the whole session, and I agreed that this was more than fair. Again, being old school, I haven't and won't inquire about the other player's rewards. Then he told me how much XP I had been awarded. 750. Seven hundred and fifty experience points. For nearly twelve hours of table time. For battling and defeating an enemy who was almost definitely level 25 and maybe (at the extreme edge of possibility) as high as 40. In retrospect, I'm not angry, just disappointed. He has known for a while that I hope for more consistency from him, so when it comes to broaching the subject, I'm not worried so much about him getting his feelings hurt, but I don't think it's likely to have a significant effect. I hope this isn't TL;DR. Comments and advice are welcome!
#2 zyraen Mar 08, 2012 23:41:50	The advantage of being old school, is that possibly no one else knows the XP you have been awarded, 750 XP. So consider talking to your DM in private, and ask for a percentage of what was the general value of the XP. He can consider if that is fair. Meantime, I'm not sure if you have a set XP award for the Encounter as a whole. I make it a point to award Players for "beating" the Encounter, as opposed to slaying monsters and badguys, since they don't get the XP until they actually KILL the thing, and that might be part of the reason why you (and possibly everyone else) didn't get much XP. The Level 40 Bad Guy ran away, so you got no XP from him, and I understand in D&D 3.5E with high powered spells, its much easier to run away without too much DM "magic". So you might want to consider checking with your friends (fellow players) if they'd prefer - being awarded for beating an Encounter instead of killing enemies - being awarded a PERCENTAGE of that Encounter XP value (ranging from say, 60-80%) if its not "fully completed" Then from there table it to the DM as a group rather than an individual. ==================== As the next note, understand in earlier editions the XP awarded is quite different for different creatures. It might be worth to draw up an "average" XP required to level up for every level, and then dividing it by say 100, as a general idea for how much XP to award per Enemy of that level. Alternatively, the DM can guess-timate a level for each enemy, but he may not have time to prepare XP calculations. So you have a Player in the group who asks the DM after a fight the level for each enemy, notes them down, and gives a quick XP calculation (in writing) to the DM. So the DM can decide how to apportion the reward (I guess from what you say that it is rarely, if never, evenly distributed)
#3 Kaganfindel Mar 09, 2012 13:29:02	I've never understood XP penalties for having to leave early. The punishment for missing the end of a game session is missing the end of the game session. The rest is insult added to injury. Is this XP award going to permanently set you behind the rest of the party, or do you think you'll have opportunities to cover the lost ground? How big a deal is getting short shrift on one encounter in the grander scheme of the campaign? You also mentioned that he's given the whole party what you considered to be very little experience for an encounter in the past. Are you sure he wasn't just falling back on that habit? If so, the difference between your share and your teammates' shares might be negligible. In the end it's not about the paycheck; it's about the pace. If you guys are gaining levels at a pace the group can agree is fair and fun, don't sweat the individual increments of advancement. If that's not the case, if the party is gaining levels too quickly or too slowly or too unevenly, then it's something for all of you to discuss dispassionately and with a focus on settling on a pace everyone enjoys.
#4 crowscape Mar 10, 2012 14:36:23	I've never understood XP penalties for having to leave early. The punishment for missing the end of a game session is missing the end of the game session. The rest is insult added to injury. What's more, I've never seen someone being docked XP for delaying the game by arriving late. Which is a real insult when you arrive on time, have to wait an hour for the person to show up, then have to leave an hour before the game ends because the time got pushed back.
#5 zyraen Mar 11, 2012 21:07:02	@Crowscape : hear hear...! scribbles down in handy notebook
#6 randomvirus Mar 14, 2012 0:13:49	Isn't xp supposed to be one of those DM Discretion things? I personally hate hearing about DM's that impose penalties on players for real life getting in the way of a DnD session. Also, where do you get your stamina to play DnD for 12 hours? My group of 30 somethings start at 9pm and are sleepy at midnight... Anyhoo... It's been my understanding that awarding xp is up to the DM. And the amount the DM awards (if any) can be tailored to the speed the DM wants to level the party. Maybe if the DM wants to keep you in a certain range, well isn't that up to him? It's from the 4e DM guide, but paraphrasingly: DM's that want parties to level quick or slower can adjust xp rewards. Along those lines though, I don't know why the DM would have such a range between members in the same party. Personally, I keep all my players at the same level, they level up at the same time if somebody misses a session or two or three I don't dock them xp, as long as the bulk of the group plays and continues to play, there's no reason to punish people who have a life outside of the table. This is why I'm not fond of old school DM's or old school players, well, old schoolers who are stuck in their ways. Nothing wrong with an old schooler that changed with the times.
#7 Iry Mar 17, 2012 22:22:38	Penalizing a player for real life issues is generally the mark of a bad GM. There is no reason why your character cannot continue to do important and experience generating things while you are unable to participate in the game. Pushing you, as a player, just indicates a lack respect for your time and contributions. If he has a problem with your attendance or participation he should talk to you personally and see what the the two of you can work out to increase your ability to participate or bow out of the game.
#8 lolabonne Mar 17, 2012 22:25:07	Penalizing a player for real life issues is generally the mark of a bad GM. Agreed. The penalty for not getting to play D&D is not getting to play D&D.