I currently have three groups, each group plays once a week.(the benifit of being between jobs is i have the time for it atleast, the down side is a lack of funds.) Having invested in the basics for 4e and played a little with it early on in its life, i now find that, not one of the groups i play with, has any interest in playing it. I have no special interest in giving up my call of cthulhu campaign to run 4e, especially not half way through, while the rise of the runelords AP i am running with pathfinder beta is comming to a break point, it seems certain that we will be going on either to stargate rpg or vampire: the dark ages. Lastly, the best of the three groups just finished a three session try out of 4e, with the GM making it very clear he wanted nothing more to do with the game. The upside being i get to play in the Curse of the Crimson throne AP with my faverate group.
Between all this, i have a set of 4e i just cant see any likely hood of getting to use at any point in the near or even not so near future. I feel a little like i have wasted my money.
If anyone has any advice/words of consilation or general hugs, they would be most welcome.
What I'm planning on doing, when I finally get 4E, is to play a little of it with my group just because it's so shiny and we have so much fun when no one knows what's going on. When that's worn off, we'll take and mash everyone's favorite parts of all the editions together to make a game we all still want to play.
Just ask your group to take a look at the books. Do they like the dragonborn? Do they think it's neat that any religion can have a paladin? Take the concepts they like and transfer them to play under the edition that everyone is accustomed to. That will give them new stuff to try and it will mean you didn't waste your money.
Take the concepts they like and transfer them to play under the edition that everyone is accustomed to. That will give them new stuff to try and it will mean you didn't waste your money.
Seconded!
Try to find a group, who will play online. Sure it's slower, maybe at times a post per player per day, and the battle system would need some minor adjusting (everyone telling the DM what they want to do this round, then the DM seeing how it works with their initiative rolls). But I've succussfully played a game online before... Three times it's succeded. So it's possable.
Kursk: I doubt anything will change the mind of my sunday group and frankly, waiting and spending more money on it..don't really make me feel any better about it.
Dude, that is the sucky bats!
What I'm planning on doing, when I finally get 4E, is to play a little of it with my group just because it's so shiny and we have so much fun when no one knows what's going on. When that's worn off, we'll take and mash everyone's favorite parts of all the editions together to make a game we all still want to play.
Just ask your group to take a look at the books. Do they like the dragonborn? Do they think it's neat that any religion can have a paladin? Take the concepts they like and transfer them to play under the edition that everyone is accustomed to. That will give them new stuff to try and it will mean you didn't waste your money.
Mmm.. that kind of effort would be better spent on my fusion based victoriana/Arcanopunk game.
Zathina_Mage and Armisael: I have never really had much luck with PbP or PbM. If the gaming table where up and running i might give that a try.
Kursk: I doubt anything will change the mind of my sunday group and frankly, waiting and spending more money on it..don't really make me feel any better about it.
Then do what I do. Use bits out of the 4.0 books for your 3.x game...
Put it up on Ebay. It's selling like hotcakes.
I can't imagine you'd get a lot of money on Ebay, considering I bought my set of 3 core books new for $55.
It's hard for even 'barely used and in good condition, plus, need to pay to ship' to compete with 'brand new' if the price is similar.
Take the concepts they like and transfer them to play under the edition that everyone is accustomed to. That will give them new stuff to try and it will mean you didn't waste your money.
Certainly that's what I'm doing. At least one of our groups is going to be running 4E (though I'll play I won't DM it). So I sold him my MM (which I was very disappointed in, since it wasn't even a good read like most bestiarys) and I shall strip 4E's corpse for as many of the high-end concept ideas I think I can manage (currently solos and minions, rest periods, maybe traps and skill challenges). All fodder for my already heavily modified 3.5...
To the OP: I think the reason none of your seasoned RP groups want 4e is becuase 4e is a slap in the face to everyone who enjoyed 3e/3.5e. It's pretty much D&D: World of Warcraft pen and paper clone in my eyes, and lacks almost everything I liked out of 3e/3.5e(cleric domains, monks, key races out of the player's handbook..little things like that). If you have found great groups of people to RP with, I say don't force 4e on em but leave the books around in case they ever want to attempt to look at them. I tried once. but failed my fort save and went, blind, deaf and dumb from the level of printed bad stuff in it. Good luck. ^_^
None of us are paticually big 3.5 fans to be honest. In the year that i have been playing with my sunday group, four weeks ago was the first time we ever played any DnD at all since i joined. We ran 4e for three weeks and now are on Pathfinder.
Now don't get me wrong, i really love pathfinder, and infact after the first session would say i prefer it to straight 3.5 and 4e, but regardless, i did have lots of silly hun playing 4e and would rather the big chunk of money i spent on it didn't go to waste.
Alternatively (if you have the time), go start your own group, teach one player how the game works in a solo campaign or do somethingt radically different.
You know, you could always try a sort of single-player game where you make a monster deck and make a random dungeon and just play by yourself. Although I guess most people who play D&D are a bit too social for that.
Alternatively (if you have the time), go start your own group, teach one player how the game works in a solo campaign or do somethingt radically different.
You mean like warhammer quest from back in the day?
Mmm...i guess finding or founding a forth game, some time during the week is within the realms of possiblity.
I've head lots of folks grumble about the lack of material for 4E. If you take a look at the release schedule, you'll see there's TONS of stuff slated for release this year. As it comes out and options open up, I think we'll see more and more folks opening up to give 4E a go.
I disagree with the sentiment that D&D 4E is more like a MMORPG. If anything, 4E more of meld of RPG and D&D Minis - which should surprise nobody who's been paying attention. There's nothing which reduces the roleplaying aspects of the game - and the addition of actual rules for skill-based encounters is a huge move away from "Kill, loot, level" that's been a staple of nearly every roleplaying game for decades.
But if your just over it, sell the books on e-bay and move on.
Second vote for "wait and see". While I agree that the announcement of 4E was a great example of botched community relations, the finished product is actually a blast in my experience.
I've head lots of folks grumble about the lack of material for 4E. If you take a look at the release schedule, you'll see there's TONS of stuff slated for release this year. As it comes out and options open up, I think we'll see more and more folks opening up to give 4E a go.
I disagree with the sentiment that D&D 4E is more like a MMORPG. If anything, 4E more of meld of RPG and D&D Minis - which should surprise nobody who's been paying attention. There's nothing which reduces the roleplaying aspects of the game - and the addition of actual rules for skill-based encounters is a huge move away from "Kill, loot, level" that's been a staple of nearly every roleplaying game for decades.
I have to dispute 'Kill, loot, level' being the main stay of nearly every roleplaying game. In my experience, it applies to only a very few roleplaying games, those most closely related to D'n'D.
I cannot think of 'Kill, loot, level' being the mode of play in the vast majority of games i have played over the last 18 or so years; certainly not in any of the world of darkness games, call of cthulhu, deadlands(save a little looting of ammo in survivial horror), Ars Magica, witchcraft, Artesia(Touching dead people gives you polution), Pendragon(your glory and virtues would be at risk), L5R(hell you loot a corpse in this and it will negatively effect you honour), In nomina, Numerous Home brews, Conspiracy X.
Ok, exalted, cyberpunk, all flesh must be eaten, warhammer fantasy roleplay have a certain loot the bodies mentality, but that is due to the setting in most cases. In the case of both all flesh and WFRP, it is a pretty dangerous gamble and in the case of Exalted, you wouldn't bother looting the mooks, only other exalted in general.
While i will agree, the skill challanges system was a move in the right directions, the rest of what was done to the skills, was two steps the other way.
Its also worth noting that it does have major influences from MMORPG's (although, i will agree and am aware of its ties to DnD minis as well.)
At the end of the Day, i do enjoy it and would like continue playing it a little, but lets not pretend that it doesn't have some fairly gapping flaws
To the OP: I think the reason none of your seasoned RP groups want 4e is becuase 4e is a slap in the face to everyone who enjoyed 3e/3.5e. It's pretty much D&D: World of Warcraft pen and paper clone in my eyes, and lacks almost everything I liked out of 3e/3.5e(cleric domains, monks, key races out of the player's handbook..little things like that). If you have found great groups of people to RP with, I say don't force 4e on em but leave the books around in case they ever want to attempt to look at them. I tried once. but failed my fort save and went, blind, deaf and dumb from the level of printed bad stuff in it. Good luck. ^_^
Keep your farsical hyperboles and dead canards and edition war away KTHXBAI.
http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php
Hyperboles is what D&D is all about. Frankly I think edition war is a childish term. I would like to see it as euthanasia of an all star sports team, with decades of history behind em. Just because they had a couple of bad years. Then replace it with something inspired from MMO's and other cliche "safe" fantasy elements. :
Huh. Funny. I see it as euthanasia of a terrible team, which has now been successfully replaced by a much better product.
@Dave+YLC: KiCC.
Well, part of me can't help but think that if the "best" of the three groups tried out 4e with a GM who wants nothing more to do with the game, then it wasn't a very good trial of the game for anyone but the GM. Seriously, what game would be fun for a group if the GM hated it?
As for recouping your money, maybe you could try the D&D without a DM idea and make up an encounter deck and some dungeons. This way, whenever your groups had a slow night or missing party members, you could whip out the D&D and run a fun, fast dungeon crawl with no prep needed. This would keep 4e in the mental horizon of the groups, and would allow time for more supplements and cool stuff to pop up. It would also maybe allow time for one of the other fun campaigns to come to an end naturally.
Perhaps the reason that no one wants to go to 4e is that they are all enjoying games right now that they want to continue playing.
To me, 4e is the best revision since the original AD&D hardcovers. And yes, I was playing D&D using the little books before that... you kids, get off my lawn!
4e fanoldman, 'cause fanboy doesn't fit.
If one of the groups is going to play 4e, what's the issue? I vote wait and see... I suspect the "It doesn't have X" people will calm down once PHBII out.
PHBII doesn't have psionics in it
PHBII doesn't have psionics in it
Another reason to buy it! Want psionics? Play a sci-fi game (I recommend Traveller or StarWars Saga E.) or wait for PHBXII, where you also get ships that fly in outer space described as another plane of existence. If you're lucky, they'll include Jedi and Redshirt Extra classes, and a Vege-Pygmy and Blue Slave Girl race in that one too. For equipment, lasers and an entire section on time travel devices. Maybe a phone booth that allows you to go back in time before Gary decided that Expedition to the Barrier Peaks was a good idea. But hey, it all started when the WWII Germans in the Castle turned out to be Vampires, so what have I got to complain about? You kids, get off my lawn!
4e fanoldman, 'cause fanboy doesn't fit.
Please leave your
up ideals to yourself, ok?4E is also light on rules for out of combat interaction.
Another reason to buy it!
PHBII doesn't have psionics in it
They'll be in PHB 3, 4 or 5. I'd say by PHB 4 they'll have the basic rules complete. Hang in there.
Well, to the OP, I would wait until they have better stuff out there.
Keep your farsical hyperboles and dead canards and edition war away KTHXBAI.
Dude, there are people who feel betrayed, the have a right to, and i will never ask them not to express that. Get over it.
Huh. Funny. I see it as euthanasia of a terrible team, which has now been successfully replaced by a much better product.
Still a suprisingly popular team it would seem, 25,000 Unique Downloads of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Alpha, would seem to disagree with the basic remiss that there was something intrinicly wrong with 3e in its various forms.
4e is not a continuation of the style of game that DnD had been up until this point. It feels massively different, it plays nothing like D'n'D did before and fundermentally alters many sacred cows of the traditional game. Despite this, i found it a lot of fun, but please don't pretend that those people who are angry about the changes don't have a right to be. It's disengenuous.
Turalisj: Firstly, i am i guess at my very core, a Mage: The Ascension player, with my biggest influence on my view of magic being heavily shaped by real world magic and mages take on those traditions. So, to me, the hand waving and magic words are kind of important to me. Ofcause, fourth ed completely gets rid of this side of things, but hey, whatever.
Congzilla: An entirely understandable sentiment, but a little premature to be worrying about it. I'd imagain we have at least five years before that becomes an issue.
PSchirf: You know what, dark suns, one of the greatest campaign settings for D'n'D ever released was psionlious and there are numerous fantasy authors and even entire fantasy sub-genres in which psychic powers are the magic of the world. And while i will agree that Psionics didn't belong in the initial book, there was plenty that did, which didn't show up. As for the idea that all a system needs is rules for combat resolution. I will have to disagree most strongly.
Rules for resolving social conflicts are an integral part each of the systems I respect most. The fact is, 4e even has the most basic elements of such a system, its just half arsed beyond beleif. It is in fact on of the thing which puts me off the game.
And while i will agree that Psionics didn't belong in the initial book, there was plenty that did, which didn't show up. As for the idea that all a system needs is rules for combat resolution. I will have to disagree most strongly.
Rules for resolving social conflicts are an integral part each of the systems I respect most. The fact is, 4e even has the most basic elements of such a system, its just half arsed beyond beleif. It is in fact on of the thing which puts me off the game.
Like I said on other thread, the game mechanics concentrate on combat, leaving the RP area free for DM - Player - Player interaction. As far as I'm concerned, the non-combat challenge mechanic still needs a few more tweaks, but it's a step in the right direction. Other than that, I want the rules OUT of the picture when it comes to RP! I've watched RP in 3.5 games and laughed at how many times a player or the DM reached for a rulebook. To me, 4e is a move TOWARD Roleplaying, not away from it.
Zathina_Mage and Armisael: I have never really had much luck with PbP or PbM. If the gaming table where up and running i might give that a try.
There are a couple of other Virtual Table Top programs out there, Zombie. My favorite one to use is MapTools. If you're seriously considering online play, the program is free and has many features.
One could use it as a practice run to tide you over until the Gametable comes out.
...
...I have no special interest in giving up my call of cthulhu campaign to run 4e, especially not half way through, while the rise of the runelords AP i am running with pathfinder beta is comming to a break point, it seems certain that we will be going on either to stargate rpg or vampire: the dark ages. Lastly, the best of the three groups just finished a three session try out of 4e, with the GM making it very clear he wanted nothing more to do with the game. The upside being i get to play in the Curse of the Crimson throne AP with my faverate group.
It sounds like the first two groups aren't "anti-4th edition" as much as they are "not playing D&D at all". So just wait for one of those first two groups to get to a break point and offer to DM 4th a edition campaign. Unlike the GM in your third group, everybody I've talked to who's actually played 4th edition came away liking it as much or more than 3rd edition. Therefore odds are pretty good that you just need to get players to try it by offering to run a campaign in it.
(And of course another option is to wait until one of your groups breaks up. Then join a new group that's actually playing 4th edition. There's even online groups playing it using clients like Maptool.)
Afterall, you've said that you're playing with 3 different groups. Eventually D&D will come up in the rotation.
2) Decide what 4e bits you like that could be adapted into the next D&D game you run. (assuming that it's not 4e).
I'm more than willing to give 4e a chance, and it does have potential, but right now 4e just feels like a a reduced version of Book of Nine Swords. and yeah, it does feel more like an MMO gone P&P than an adventure based RPG. I can see where a lot of players would be turned off to it if they didn't have DMs willing to alter things and do a lot of house rules.
You are fortunate enough to be playing three separate campaigns that you are enjoying. And you even mention that you might have time to look for a fourth? I'd be too happy to complain about losing some money on books I'm not using right now.
Enjoy your games, and hold onto the books. Maybe someday you'll get a chance to use them, maybe not. That's the thing with D&D books, sometimes they're a crapshoot. Hell, I have copies of books for 3.5 my group didn't even have time to read.
Like I said on other thread, the game mechanics concentrate on combat, leaving the RP area free for DM - Player - Player interaction. As far as I'm concerned, the non-combat challenge mechanic still needs a few more tweaks, but it's a step in the right direction. Other than that, I want the rules OUT of the picture when it comes to RP! I've watched RP in 3.5 games and laughed at how many times a player or the DM reached for a rulebook. To me, 4e is a move TOWARD Roleplaying, not away from it.
The problem is that the approach you are asking for, is profoundly unfair.
I am, social with a forceful personality and strongly held convictions. As a player and until resently, played along side some one who is entirely my opersite. Now, while i can play character who are not those things, generally speaking how ever hard i try, some elements will continue to sneak through. Even the best of us, can't change who we are entirely.
Thats no to bad, save that, when i play with les, his most social characters are often less social than my least social characters. Now les could kick the snot out of me in a fight, yet, that does not effect his ability to succeed in a d'n'd combat.
If i wanted to religh entirely on personal skills, i'd be at a hard skills larp not playing a table top.
There are a couple of other Virtual Table Top programs out there, Zombie. My favorite one to use is MapTools. If you're seriously considering online play, the program is free and has many features.
One could use it as a practice run to tide you over until the Gametable comes out.
I will take this one into consideration, thanks.