The problem is the other players never want to take a break when the cleric is out of spells and expect me to exhaust every spell, scroll, wand and potion I have before considering taking a break for spell preparation.
I get comments like, "Why don't you buy more scrolls so we do not have to rest." and they get replies like, "Why don't you pitch in to buy some scrolls if you want me to use them" It just goes around in a circular argument.
They do not seem to get the idea that the cure light wounds wand I carry is for emergency use only and that I do not want to just burn through it.
This sort of thing happened last time I played a cleric too, they want me to burn through scrolls, wands etc, but do not want to pay to replace them.
They act like the function of a cleric is to foot the bill out their own pocket. Is it so unreasonable to expect the party to pitch in to pay for healing items that will be used on them?
So how does a cleric get a break when it is needed without being too much of a dick about it?
What it the best way to get it through to them that the cleric is not just a walking band-aid box?
What it the best way to get it through to them that the cleric is not just a walking band-aid box?
Don't know if it's the best way, but drop all healing abilities from your repertoire for a session or two, except for a potion or two for your own use that you bought specifically for that purpose, and load up on offensive/combat spells. Proceed to frontline with the fighters, and when people ask for healing, say you don't have any healing spells prepared.
Alternately, divide up your selected healing spells, and tell everyone that they're only going to get X spells for healing, because the rest are going to be other things; conviently forget to bring your Wand, or simply leave it at base camp.
I get really tired of being the one slamming on the brakes when the rest of the party wants to foolishly rush ahead.
I am not going to burn through my emergency wand just because the rest of the party is impatient, they can do without.
Maybe they will get the idea when only have cure minor wounds left to cast.
Then don't, just be prepared (read: somewhere in the back) when things come crashing down. Their stupidity won't necessarily mean your own death if you prepare enough.
lol true!
You would think they would learn since we are playing with a DM who loves to total party kill, and regularly predicts how many characters he is going to kill before each game.
My group is playing 3.5 and I am the party cleric.
The problem is the other players never want to take a break when the cleric is out of spells and expect me to exhaust every spell, scroll, wand and potion I have before considering taking a break for spell preparation.
I get comments like, "Why don't you buy more scrolls so we do not have to rest." and they get replies like, "Why don't you pitch in to buy some scrolls if you want me to use them" It just goes around in a circular argument.
You need to sit down with your group, outside of the game (possibly before the session begins) and discuss a party fund. The details of how you put money in the fund are up to you, but our groups tend to purchase group supplies (potions, scrolls, wands, etc) and other stuff, such as new spells for the wizard's spellbook, out of our available gold before dividing up treasure.
The entire party benefits from everyone having supplies such as potions. Spellcasters greatly increase their usefulness with scrolls, wands, staffs, and such. Unless your party is just a bunch of random people traveling in the same direction, you all need to start working together on keeping the party supplied.
They do not seem to get the idea that the cure light wounds wand I carry is for emergency use only and that I do not want to just burn through it.
I heartily recommend buying several wands of CLW whenever you have the chance. These wands are the cheapest form of healing available and having a few to heal up after battles can greatly help extend the parties ability to press on. Again, I recommend these be purchased with party funds as they are a group resource.
This sort of thing happened last time I played a cleric too, they want me to burn through scrolls, wands etc, but do not want to pay to replace them.
They act like the function of a cleric is to foot the bill out their own pocket. Is it so unreasonable to expect the party to pitch in to pay for healing items that will be used on them?
If your group refuses to chip in on supplies, stop buying them. Pick up a few emergency potions for yourself and, when everyone is complaining about the lack of supplies, remind them that you don't have limitless amounts of money and they should have remembered to stock up on their own.
So how does a cleric get a break when it is needed without being too much of a dick about it?
Again, this might be something to address outside the game session. Let the rest of the group know that you are not enjoying the game when you are out of spells and would appreciate it if they took that into consideration when deciding where to take a break. Rope trick is a wonderful spell for getting in a safe rest, so even in dangerous areas, it's possible to get a break.
What it the best way to get it through to them that the cleric is not just a walking band-aid box?
If you cannot convince your party to start acting like a group then I offer the following options:
Don't interfere when the group wants to rush ahead with no spells and healing available. Wait for the TPK and start over in a new game; don't choose cleric in the new game.
Stop casting healing spells. Dig up some of the old char op stuff on clerics and turn yourself into a bad guy slaying fiend.
Inform your DM that you are not enjoying the game and ask to create a new character.
Quit playing.
Don't know if it's the best way, but drop all healing abilities from your repertoire for a session or two, except for a potion or two for your own use that you bought specifically for that purpose, and load up on offensive/combat spells. Proceed to frontline with the fighters, and when people ask for healing, say you don't have any healing spells prepared.
Alternately, divide up your selected healing spells, and tell everyone that they're only going to get X spells for healing, because the rest are going to be other things; conviently forget to bring your Wand, or simply leave it at base camp.
In 3.5 clerics can drop a memorized spell to spontaneously cast a heal spell of equal level so that suggestion wouldn't work.
This is sort of tough because the only thing clerics are able to really do in 3.5 and earlier editions is heal. If you have a rogue or warlock in the group with use magic device then they could by scrolls and wands for both healing and offense.
If there are other spell casters then you could use your heal items until they run out of spell and demand a rest. you could later talk to that player after word and see if they would help you gain more group influence in the group.
I guess you could always sell your healing items and buy items for offense, defense and boosting that only helps you. This is a bit of a prick move but if the other players have a brain then they should start to notice something is wrong when the cleric wants to fight rather then heal. If they still don't get it then join the fighters at the front line.
Note: A friend of mine noticed that if treasure is saved up for a level or to you should have enough to buy armor that is several levels higher than what anyone should be able to buy at the moment. He would often play rogue or related class and use all his money to buy the best armor he could find and as a result his AC would be the highest in the group. After your next adventure sell a lot of your stuff and use a lot of your wealth to buy a lot of, or one uber, defensive items.
With an AC at, or higher, than the fighters you can wade into battle without fear because things should hardly hit you. Memorize buff spells and use them early then bash every thing down. For low levels bless, protection from, aid, bulls strength and such are good to use. One of the better spells to use is divine power. BAB equal to level, +6 bonus to strength, and temp hit points. Later use money to get items that boost strength and con, or spells that help in combat. Get combat feats and such. Get Somatic Weaponry (Complete Mage) and use a two handed weapon for added damage. This feat allows you to wave your two handed weapon for the somatic component, or cast with hands full. Get a high concentration just in case something does hit you while you cast a spell. If done right you should be able to kill monster much more efficiently than the fighter. If you can get good enough armor you should have a couple of levels of not needing to worry about being hit to much. Maybe at this point the fighters well start to argue that the game has become unbalanced and unfair.
I now the feeling of this argument because it popped up when my friend, the rogue, was almost one hit killing monsters and even clearing out sections of dungeon that should have been to hard for the group to handle easily.
In short use all your money to improve your defense, and use are your spells to improve your offense. If you do this well enough you may not need to heal. The quicken spell feat may be good for getting sum buffs off instantly. May want to see what your DM well allow you to buy before you sell everything to by some highly magical armor.
Changing to a battle cleric like this in mid campaign may upset your group a lot and I wouldn't really advise it. It would be funny seeing their reactions when you are slaying the monsters instead of the tanks.
Many would call this "power gaming" but it can also be called "being resourceful".
My suggestion? Go out with NO healing items at all, except maybe one, to get you back up if you need it. When the party ask why you didn't buy any, say "I can't afford the high costs of keeping you guys going. Spells are free. Wands and scrolls are not."
Actually that is exactly what I did. I ran out of spells, but they still expect me to burn through my backup wand before resting. I was considering breaking the CLW wand in front them, maybe they will get the point then.
Do evil 3.X clerics get spontaneous heal?
Actually that is exactly what I did. I ran out of spells, but they still expect me to burn through my backup wand before resting. I was considering breaking the CLW wand in front them, maybe they will get the point then.
You had a wand. That was the problem. Go into the adventure saying "I cant afford all these disposable healings you guys want. You want them, you buy them. I'm not carrying any for you guys.
Seriously. They want them, they buy them. Don't buy ANY yourself. Depending on your level, it might be worth investing in a ring of spell storing, preferably able to hold a level 6 spell, so you can get a wizard to put contingency into it, and you can then give yourself contingency healing. The ring can then double up as some emergency healing that doesnt cost anything in the long run.
(b) The backup wand is for emergencies. If the SOP for your party is for you to run out of spells every day, that's not an emergency; it's the way the party normally operates. So, the wand doesn't get used in fights where you run out; it's not an emergency.
(c) Here's a more passive-aggressive way to deal with it: Get wands of Lesser Vigor. Same price as wands of Cure Light, but they do more healing, over time (1 hp per round for 10+caster level rounds, so 11 hp per charge). Have that be your backup, emergency-healing wand, and tell them that they'll be getting one (1) hp per round as emergency healing in-fight, so make sure not to take more than one (1) hp per round.
They'll rest.
Require that the party donate one full share of the loot to your god's temple. (That includes a share of the magic items, or the value thereof.) Use that one share (once donated) to pick up the portable healing they want while you're at the temple. Work with your DM to come up with an in-game reason to set this up, such as an order from the higher-ups in your temple. "We hear you're delving into danger with these people, and they're greatly profiting... And that it's the healing of (name) who's permitting them this wealth..."
If they want healing wands let them buy them. If the fighter wants to heal and trudge on, let him produce the wand you'll use. You already magically heal everyone- why are you responsible for buying carrying and distributing healing?
They'll never understand until you run out, so you're causing the problem by being willing to buy healing items.
Though if everyone is a living construct or undead or elemental, this won't work.
My group is playing 3.5 and I am the party cleric.
The problem is the other players never want to take a break when the cleric is out of spells and expect me to exhaust every spell, scroll, wand and potion I have before considering taking a break for spell preparation.
I get comments like, "Why don't you buy more scrolls so we do not have to rest." and they get replies like, "Why don't you pitch in to buy some scrolls if you want me to use them" It just goes around in a circular argument.
They do not seem to get the idea that the cure light wounds wand I carry is for emergency use only and that I do not want to just burn through it.
This sort of thing happened last time I played a cleric too, they want me to burn through scrolls, wands etc, but do not want to pay to replace them.
They act like the function of a cleric is to foot the bill out their own pocket. Is it so unreasonable to expect the party to pitch in to pay for healing items that will be used on them?
So how does a cleric get a break when it is needed without being too much of a dick about it?
What it the best way to get it through to them that the cleric is not just a walking band-aid box?
Tell them your wand is out of charges.
Tell them your wand is out of charges.
That's a bluff check. What happens when it fails? Or when they ask him why he's still carrying around a dead wand?
That's a bluff check. What happens when it fails? Or when they ask him why he's still carrying around a dead wand?
PCs don't roll skill checks against each other. They should and would have to role play the bluff.
And what about the guy who's terrible at lying? Suddenly his character can lie believably to anyone he wants but can't lie to his party at all?
Ask your DM to institute levels of fatigue for each day not rested. Like a forced march sort of. For every hour (or less) past 24 that you don't rest for the equivalent of 8 hours, you take 1d6 (or more) nonlethal damage.
Though if everyone is a living construct or undead or elemental, this won't work.
Nah, that's no good. They'll just kick open the door, kill the monsters, loot the room and move on. Half an hour per room, tops. Eight hours later...
Nah, that's no good. They'll just kick open the door, kill the monsters, loot the room and move on. Half an hour per room, tops. Eight hours later...
Correct, It's not that they don't rest, it's that they do too much in a 24 hour period. Clerics don't need to rest for spells, they just have a specific time of the day they pray for them (usually sunrise, sunset, noon, or midnight... usually sunrise to coincide with arcane casters). The OP doesn't need rest for rest's sake, he needs the party do do less each day, so resting would fill more of that time between praying for spells.
That's a bluff check. What happens when it fails? Or when they ask him why he's still carrying around a dead wand?
Word it so it isn't a lie. "You guys get hurt too much... I've spent the charges."
That way he's not bluffing he's just letting them think it's out.
And if they ask why he still has it.....
Tell them it's cheaper to recharge than it is to buy a new one.
Just cuz it's not a lie doesn't mean it's not a bluff check. Hiding the truth in nonanswers or implying something that isn't true is still a bluff check even if everything you do say is true.
True but he he could probably get a bonus if he discussed it with the DM... it being the truth and all.
And if they never ask him if it's out they still may believe him because the DM should say he's not lying.
Either way I never use bluff checks between players simply because they never believe them anyway.
I use the bluff/sense motive when an NPC is doing the talking or listening.
True but he he could probably get a bonus if he discussed it with the DM... it being the truth and all.
And if they never ask him if it's out they still may believe him because the DM should say he's not lying.
Either way I never use bluff checks between players simply because they never believe them anyway.
I use the bluff/sense motive when an NPC is doing the talking or listening.
What do you mean they never believe them anyway? I didn't say don't roleplay it, but the check should be made. I didn't say the characters should make it. The DM should have relevent stat blocks for all characters, and thus should be able to whenever needed roll bluff and sense motive for the players, and interject whenever needed with "you can tell he's lying" or "he's telling the truth". In this case it could be arranged beforehand, with even a list of rolls being rolled beforehand so the players don't get suspicious, since this much planning is going into it.
This is all provided you have players who can't separate player knowlegde from character knowledge. Which is why I like my gaming group. I can announce to the DM that I'm pickpocketing someone and no one will have their character do anything to me if I'm not caught... Same with bluffing. I was a halfling rogue with a pair of dwarves (a paladin and a cleric no less), and they never caught me stealing from them, though their players knew. Thus they never did anything bad to me. The one time they did spot my pickpocket I used a bluff check to act like I was looking for holy water (this was mid-combat against zombies) and I was not only aquitted but commended for good thinking. Heck they loved me since i saved their lives once, and we the players all had a lot of laughs about how my thief was robbing them left and right and they loved him.
Now before you get after me for stealing from the party, it balanced out. Anything magical, I either had to relinquish to the party or spring for a mage to cast identify, which was a lot of cash at the low level, and then I still had to give it up to the party ("Hey look what I just found!") if I couldn't use it, or thought that it would be better used by someone else who might save my butt with it.
Wand of Sleep, my friend!
How to get the party to sleep?
Wand of Sleep, my friend!
LOL, YES! With Deep Slumber at the higher levels, and then... I don't remember the name, but there's a sleep poison in either complete scoundrel or adventurer that is ingested... not hard to get the party to eat a quick bite after a victory.
