As I type this my DM is advancing on me with a knife and murderous hate in his eyes so i might get cut short. Before that, how about you guys share your stories and methods of breaking your DMs...
*Blood spatter and stabbing noises follow*
Because you've got a weak DM who doesn't know to be creative & add any kind of modifyers he needs/likes to continue to present a challenging, fun, adventure.
No, of course it makes the DM a bit upset. It's like... imagine that you've baked, with love and attention, your child's favourite chocolate cake for their birthday party, and then you've spent hours decorating it, and then you've put the candles on just right, and you bring it out, and blow them out without even bothering with the song and tear into it. And you're left feeling like you might just as well have melted chocolate into a bowl or somthing. And then they ask for ice-cream.
That's roughly how it feels to have the party rip through your carefully-crafted villians who're supposed to challenge their ingenuity and pique their interest, without even caring or experiencing the full depth of the encounter. Of course you're going to come back with something even bigger and meaner and more impressive that can survive - and excite! - that group of players.
Yours,
JMH
For those who regularly have situation where the PCs mop the floor with the monsters' butts, I advise the DM to make them go through 6 or 8 encounters without an extended rest and see how that works out for them. Suddenly cakewalk encounters tend to become real nailbiters when you don't have all your dailies and healing powers at your disposal.
As a DM I just see situations like this as a challenge. How can I craft an encounter that will make the players wet themselves without actually doing a TPK? It's a fine line and when it happens everyone in the game loves it.
For those who regularly have situation where the PCs mop the floor with the monsters' butts, I advise the DM to make them go through 6 or 8 encounters without an extended rest and see how that works out for them. Suddenly cakewalk encounters tend to become real nailbiters when you don't have all your dailies and healing powers at your disposal.
I find using nova tactics as the bad guys tends to work wonders. Friggin Halforc Archers, man. They have two encounter power free actions that add a die of damage to their standard longbow. Had the melee brutes go in, soften a few guys up, waited for the cleric to drop a heal, then had four hidden archers attack the cleric, who the party had actually left hanging back.
Party revised their tactics really fast.
Use monsters that can nova, and make the encounter higher level, adding more monsters instead of increasing their level. They'll nova on the party, the party will flip out and nova back, killing have the baddies, and then the bad guys that are left are basically stuck with mostly at-will/basic attacks, while the party still has some encounter/daily powers left to use.
Always seems to make them feel like they're about to get TPK'd, then they drop a daily or two and the table turns immediately.
Of course it is most frustrating when you can't roll higher than a 7 and all your players are decently optimized....
Or, alternately,
What makes me cry as a DM is when I set up an encouner with a nice, big area, lots of terrain and tactical areas to take advantage of...and the players all stay within two squares of their starting area.
Next time I'm DMing, I'm going to start tossing in blaster type artillary and controllers specifically to deal with that issue.
Bleah. Your DM should learn to roll with the punches, and adjust his plans as needed.
Or, alternately,
For the record, my DM is a great DM, me and the swordmage just happened to synergize a little too well so I'd appreciate it if you stopped calling him a bad DM. Second off, that almost happened. Damn MV purple worm and an inexplicable series of crap rolls on my part...
A little liberal on the 20 damage for each attack but its close.
Bleah. Your DM should learn to roll with the punches, and adjust his plans as needed.
Or, alternately,
For the record, my DM is a great DM, me and the swordmage just happened to synergize a little too well so I'd appreciate it if you stopped calling him a bad DM. Second off, that almost happened. Damn MV purple worm and an inexplicable series of crap rolls on my part...
I didn't call him a bad DM. I said he needs to learn to adjust on the fly. Given your OP, it was logical to assume he was bad at it, since he was angered to the point of violence.
In any case, my reply was really only an excuse to post a kitty pic.
What makes me cry as DM is when my players fail to see optimal tactics or use them.
Oh dear Ceiling Cat yes. Heck, I'd like to see my players use ANY tactics. Defenders who don't mark, rogues who don't flank, wizard who just blast one person at a time ...
Conversely, what makes me laugh maniacally as a DM is when the PCs stop paying attention to their tactics and bail on the healer. This seems to come up most often in groups with Pacifists. It's like they get lazy because of the all the healing that's available, and they stop paying proper attention, and get too far away from the healer.
I had an encounter with 4 halforc archers hidden off the road, and the PCs all charged into the fray with the orcs and ogres in the road wrapping up an ambush. Cue all 4 halforcs doing 3d10 + 5 damage to the poor level 7 Pacifist.
Cleric drops, all other players' jaws hit the floor.
By the time we had run into the tarasque we, including my self had forgotten about it (though I would like to think that I play well enough to not have my new character mention it). The DM had set up a string of fetch quests which would culminate in us finding food blessed by the gods, which was the only thing that could put the beast back to sleep.
The next session our dread necro player shows up, finds out whats going on, and had an unseen servant jump into the tarasques's mouth with the branch. DM threw out the notes, called a break and cried. 15 min later we were on with the campaign, continuing with the story. He still bemoans the loss of his fetch quests four months later!
What makes me cry as DM is when my players fail to see optimal tactics or use them.
Oh dear Ceiling Cat yes. Heck, I'd like to see my players use ANY tactics. Defenders who don't mark, rogues who don't flank, wizard who just blast one person at a time ...
Better than Defenders who mark and then bitch about monsters attacking them.
Personally, I tend to make my DMs cry (Or rather annoyed, but hey Hyperbole is the secret word) with Defenders who never go down and who batman the **** out of most scenarios. Many a cry of "Lemme see that item/power" is heard when I'm shenaniganing about :33.
I think my favorite was when I failed an acrobatics check abbysmally. As he was rolling falling damage, I proceed to pass through my windo of escape mid fall, negating the falling damage. He was like "Okay, but you fall into the river below and take cold damage." I use my floating shield to remain on top of the water instead. "Okay, but you're prone." On my turn, I use Acrobat Boots to stand up as a minor action
On the start of your turn ask the DM what's going on. As a melee character ask him what kind of weapon an enemy 20 squares away is using. Ask if he's bloodied. Thumb through your powers. Twice. Ask another player what the lowest defense score these guys have. Realize you are bloodied this turn. Proudly proclaim that you can use a special power because of this. Ask the DM if an enemy nearby is an elite. Make a joke about WoW/Dragon Age/South Park/Family Guy. Ask if he's bloodied. Thumb through your powers. Ask if you get any bonuses from other players. Is that guy granting combat advantage? Finally state that you will use your encou.. oh wait, already used that one...two turns ago. Ask if there is any way to recharge your encounter power. Swear that it seems like it was last battle. Thumb through your powers again. Ask if an enemy is within charging distance. Stand up over the table to get a better view. Start figiting with your mini. Look back down at your powers. Proclaim that you are going to charge an enemy. Someone says that it will provoke an opportunity attack. Step back a little and talk about how AoO work. Ask if you can sort of swing around the threatening enemy. You can't. That's a bummer. What about with an acrobatics check? Or actually your endurance is better, maybe that would work. Give up on that. Charge closest enemy with non-MBA At-will. Yell wildly and throw your d20 recklessly, bumping over minis and falling off the table. As it falls, yell "doesn't count!" and scramble around the crowded table to grab it from between someone's legs in a spot that let's you see over the DMscreen. Comment on the sweet drawing you weren't supposed to see yet. Go back over to your spot. Roll the dice less recklessly. Explain again your attack. Have the DM tell you that you can't use that on a charge. Argue. Look it up in the book. Get proven wrong. Fine, just a melee basic. Roll for damage, do max damage and inadverently block charging lanes. Get up and ask if anyone wants a beer. Start heading to the kitchen. Overhear something from the next player's turn. Rush back and say "Oh yeah, and I mark the guy... oh yeah and can I use that stance now that I'm bloodied, it makes me do extra damage... and oh since I'm already in the stance can I use that minor action to draw my other weapon" Demand to know what he means by not enough actions. Argue. Say forget about it and go to get the beer. Come back and interrupt the turn by passing out the beers. Start loudly flipping through a splat book and talking with your neighbor. Get interrupted by your DM who tells you it's your turn again. Repeat.
Next encounter, after getting inexplicably missed by a major attack, crit against the BBEG with the nova round that you took from the ChaOps board and deal near max damage.
How to make your DM cry, a tutorial:
You forgot "Thumb through your powers" and "After DM marks damage, add "Oh yeah, I get +2 damage from this feat" in triplicate.
How to make your DM cry, a tutorial:
You forgot "Thumb through your powers" and "After DM marks damage, add "Oh yeah, I get +2 damage from this feat" in triplicate.
That I did... I am ashamed of myself. I was getting bored.
How to make your DM cry, a tutorial:
On the start of your turn ask the DM what's going on. As a melee character ask him what kind of weapon an enemy 20 squares away is using. Ask if he's bloodied. Thumb through your
YOU DELAY. NEXT TURN.
Awesome post, btw!
In all seriousness, when players realize their turn will get skipped if they can't make up their minds, they tend to get it together pretty quick, in my experience.
What makes my DM cry. I hit for 20 and shift 4 spaces; I hit for 20 and push your monster 4 spaces; I hit for 20 and slide your monster for 4 spaces, past 4 of my party members, all 4 party members hit on their AoO's. DM crys.
A little liberal on the 20 damage for each attack but its close.
Slide doesn't provoke Opportunity Attacks. I can imagine the DM being frustrated if he doesn't know this.
How to make your DM cry, a tutorial:
On the start of your turn ask the DM what's going on. As a melee character ask him what kind of weapon an enemy 20 squares away is using. Ask if he's bloodied. Thumb through your
YOU DELAY. NEXT TURN.
Awesome post, btw!
In all seriousness, when players realize their turn will get skipped if they can't make up their minds, they tend to get it together pretty quick, in my experience.
Yeah. I don't think I've had anything as bad as what I wrote down, but there is definitely some personal experience in there. I've adopted the auto delay on indecision and you are absolutely right, it works wonders. The player this is mostly based on now has his act together and is probably one of the more strategic of my players now.
Delaying is awesome because it doesn't punish player indecision but rewards paying attention. I highly recommend it for every group.
...and when running a game where it has been agreed that we will not proceed if there is a player missing, and then players start acting like it is my fault that we skip some sessions instead of directing their ire at the player that was absent without giving any of us advanced notice...
...and when players slip into that "my character is better than your character," nonsense... that always makes me cry - mostly because they are never actually right.
As a DM, I cry when there is hazardous terrain like a cliff, my monsters all miss with their push/slide powers (or the players make all their saving throws to avoid falling in) and the wizard casts Visions of Avarice just over the edge of the cliff...
What makes my DM cry. I hit for 20 and shift 4 spaces; I hit for 20 and push your monster 4 spaces; I hit for 20 and slide your monster for 4 spaces, past 4 of my party members, all 4 party members hit on their AoO's. DM crys.
A little liberal on the 20 damage for each attack but its close.
Slides don't provoke OAs, so your 4 party members were making attacks when they weren't allowed to.
( Also, "AoO" is a term from a different game entirely - I find it best to avoid using it, to prevent misunderstandings based on D20 from creeping in.)
In 3.5, my first character, at level 20, was a Favored Soul 6/Scout 6/Pious Templar 8, which put my Fort and Will saves at +13, and my Reflex was a +12, with high corresponding ability scores. Scout gave me Evasion, and PT gave me Mettle, which meant that any save I had to make (and I made 80+% of them) that had a partial effect did nothing. It got to the point that he told me (out of game) that I had to give up mettle because it was throwing the game out of balance. If he threw something that challenged me and my
saves, it was too hard for the rest of the party; but if he threw something at us that only challenged their saves, I was getting way scot-free (which the rest of the party thought was kind of impressive). Finally we figured out how to fix it: since he had already boosted the utility of PT by making it a 6/10 spellcasting progression PrC, I gave up Mettle and received a feat in return.This won't make your DM cry, but it did make mine scream in frustration:
In 3.5, my first character, at level 20, was a Favored Soul 6/Scout 6/Pious Templar 8
Apparently your DM had never seen a Cleric, Druid, or Wizard at L20, if *that* upset him.
This won't make your DM cry, but it did make mine scream in frustration:
In 3.5, my first character, at level 20, was a Favored Soul 6/Scout 6/Pious Templar 8
Apparently your DM had never seen a Cleric, Druid, or Wizard at L20, if *that* upset him.
This was not a fully optimized party. He was trying to keep a balance.
How to make your DM cry, a tutorial:
On the start of your turn ask the DM what's going on. As a melee character ask him what kind of weapon an enemy 20 squares away is using. Ask if he's bloodied. Thumb through your powers. Twice. Ask another player what the lowest defense score these guys have. Realize you are bloodied this turn. Proudly proclaim that you can use a special power because of this. Ask the DM if an enemy nearby is an elite. Make a joke about WoW/Dragon Age/South Park/Family Guy. Ask if he's bloodied. Thumb through your powers. Ask if you get any bonuses from other players. Is that guy granting combat advantage? Finally state that you will use your encou.. oh wait, already used that one...two turns ago. Ask if there is any way to recharge your encounter power. Swear that it seems like it was last battle. Thumb through your powers again. Ask if an enemy is within charging distance. Stand up over the table to get a better view. Start figiting with your mini. Look back down at your powers. Proclaim that you are going to charge an enemy. Someone says that it will provoke an opportunity attack. Step back a little and talk about how AoO work. Ask if you can sort of swing around the threatening enemy. You can't. That's a bummer. What about with an acrobatics check? Or actually your endurance is better, maybe that would work. Give up on that. Charge closest enemy with non-MBA At-will. Yell wildly and throw your d20 recklessly, bumping over minis and falling off the table. As it falls, yell "doesn't count!" and scramble around the crowded table to grab it from between someone's legs in a spot that let's you see over the DMscreen. Comment on the sweet drawing you weren't supposed to see yet. Go back over to your spot. Roll the dice less recklessly. Explain again your attack. Have the DM tell you that you can't use that on a charge. Argue. Look it up in the book. Get proven wrong. Fine, just a melee basic. Roll for damage, do max damage and inadverently block charging lanes. Get up and ask if anyone wants a beer. Start heading to the kitchen. Overhear something from the next player's turn. Rush back and say "Oh yeah, and I mark the guy... oh yeah and can I use that stance now that I'm bloodied, it makes me do extra damage... and oh since I'm already in the stance can I use that minor action to draw my other weapon" Demand to know what he means by not enough actions. Argue. Say forget about it and go to get the beer. Come back and interrupt the turn by passing out the beers. Start loudly flipping through a splat book and talking with your neighbor. Get interrupted by your DM who tells you it's your turn again. Repeat.
Next encounter, after getting inexplicably missed by a major attack, crit against the BBEG with the nova round that you took from the ChaOps board and deal near max damage.
This is genius! Thanks for the laugh :lol
I will add:
♦ pick up miniatures off the battle map because they are 'painted so cool' and then put them back in the wrong spot
♦ surf the net on your gadget/laptop and crank the youtube video volume
♦ say "I attack" and roll the die. "Okay, 17, I was using my daily, by the way, against the boss monster, not the minions"
I'm sure there are hundreds more ;)
We had pissed off the local thieves guild in a metropolis (mostly by virtue of me cutting the heads off their men), which resulted in them putting a price on our heads. 1000g back then to be precise. So, when we headed into the slums to find their hideout and kill them all, we were suddenly faced with a mob of 40 people. the DM used the "mob" monster from onen of the MM's. Basically it counted as a swarm, however, he also informed that it was possible to hit them as individual targets.
The exchange went something like this:
Me: "So, how does that work with my great cleave?"
DM: *caught off guard and clearly disappointed* "well, then you can just cleave.." *trying to save it* "Uhm, but you can only cleave as many as you would be able to reach from the spot you cleave from if you were surrounded, so from your 5ft square, that is a maximum of 9 people you can great cleave."
Me: "I got supreme cleave."
I will treasure the expression on his face for the rest of my D&D life. ;)
ps: ended up killing 24 people instantly in that turn, earning the nickname "the combine harvester". ^^