Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 salla Jul 20, 2009 21:45:21	4E, but I'm sure the problem is edition-neutral. One of the players in my group is intending to step up to the DMing chair. Unfortunately, I'm getting the distinct sensation that he's never read either the PHB or the DMG in its entirety, or even the major parts. He's also been very prone to 'editionitis' as a player, stirring up things from 2nd, 3rd, and 4th editions. During character-building, the party's Sorcerer accidentally equipped himself with Scale armor rather than cloth (we discovered it when he looked at his sheet and wondered why he had a Reflex defense of 9), and the DM-to-be made a reference to the armor 'screwing up his spellcasting', which sounds suspiciously like a reference to Arcane Spell Failure. He asked me how treasure works in 4e, which means he hasn't looked at the treasure parcel pages. He was pondering if he'd under- or over-powered the encounters he'd planned, and when I mentioned the XP budget system, he kind of gave me a blank look. I'm going to give the first game a shot, but ... anticipating here, what's a polite way to suggest that he should read the manuals before attempting this again?
#2 dougirwin13 Jul 20, 2009 22:31:30	PMSL! I like the way you roll Yarium!
#3 funkyv Jul 20, 2009 23:10:21	Hey dude, read the ****ing books....please.
#4 gregt_314 Jul 20, 2009 23:31:21	Same way you address any other problem with your DM. Play the session, give it your honest best attempt to have fun, and then afterwards (maybe on a different day if you don't feel cool-headed) have a chat to your DM: "Hey, I enjoyed the last session and particularly liked [x] and [y], I thought those were cool. But it would be even more awesome if the game was a bit closer to the rulebooks; the rules are actually pretty tight this time around. Is there any chance you could bring the game closer to what's in the manuals? That would really make the game more fun for me; I'm happy to help you out with rules calls if you think that would help." Summary: * don't argue it at the game table * keep a positive outlook * emphasise what you liked * concentrate on what will make the game better for you, rather than objectively criticising the DM * show a constructive way to achieve that change * request, don't demand * offer to help and be willing to compromise.
#5 oxybe Jul 21, 2009 3:45:42	"may i inquire as to why you have procrastinated in the task of fully digesting the content of the Dungeon Master's manual pertaining to the game of Dungeons and Dragons?" that's about as polite as i can put it, really. but yeah, if he's having issues with some of the contents, show him the parts and then tell to come to you after if he has questions. as a guy who does tech support this REALLY irks me when someone buys our product without doing any reading on the documentation then calls us wondering why some of the basic functions aren't working (why can't i go online and what's this "wifi" router you're talking about? :twitch. ask him strait up: have you read the entirety of the book. not just skimmed, read. if no, go do it now. i'll help you iron out the details but only if you show basic understanding of the ideas and concepts.
#6 salla Jul 21, 2009 3:50:04	"C'mon man, I know my stuff." Well, I know he won't say this. I'm mostly concerned about shattering his rather fragile self-esteem.
#7 slobo777a Jul 21, 2009 5:02:49	Well, I know he won't say this. I'm mostly concerned about shattering his rather fragile self-esteem. Well that should make it fun when he starts getting things muddled and you want to correct him. Play at least one session with the new DM calling all the shots, and bite your tongue, don't try to correct him. Things you can do on other sessions if that doesn't work: help the DM - offer to look up rules for example, to help speed the game along (look them up even if you are confident about them, because the b&w writing is less down-putting than you simply quoting the correct ruling to him). Run inititiative (esp if your group likes to Delay and Ready, because that gets fiddly). Provide feedback after a session whether encounters seemed balanced or not Give a page reference in the DMG for one thing that would most improve the next session. It's lot less daunting to be told "read these 10 pages" as opposed to "read all three rulebooks" Don't expect the rules knowledge to appear all at once Of course, you can only help if the DM accepts that he needs help. And often the best way to learn is to make a few mistakes.
#8 lynadianya Jul 21, 2009 5:27:27	I used to teach networking and PC repair and the first thing I would put on the board is RTFM. It became so much my hallmark that a friend got me a button that said WWJD JWRTFM (which is actually more funny since my name starts with a J). All I can say is, tell him. Don't mince words or beat around the bush. Just say, "My friend, this is going to be a complete disaster if you don't read and understand the PHB and DMG on Combat and the DMG on encounter building and treasure parcels." And through in the chapter about Skill Challenges if you think he'll try to use one. If you think he has a fragile ego, then you want to head him off before he completely destroys it by going down in flames in front of his friends. I don't really expect my DM (not that I have one...I never get to play, always have to run) to know all the classes inside and out. That is for the player to know (and to have power cards or page numbers ready for me if I need to reference it). So, I would 'mostly' forgive the class editionitis where classes are concerned. However, as has been mostly said up above, no one is going to have fun if all he is doing is reference rule books or massacring the rules.
#9 esperifiel Jul 21, 2009 15:02:52	"Dude, have you even read the 4E books?" "No, but..." "Have fun reading this weekend. Let us know when you figure out how things work. Here's a hint: there's no more THAC0." "I'm ready, man." "Sure. In the meanwhile, I'll see you guys next week for my campaign."
#10 pskought Jul 21, 2009 16:19:32	Well, I know he won't say this. I'm mostly concerned about shattering his rather fragile self-esteem. Then use this. Tell him he'll be just that much better if he does a little homework first. Or suggest he run a one-shot or a module as a test case. The key, I think, is to take the ego out of things and let it be a learning experience. If he comes in with misconceptions and rules confusion and this "great idea", the attacks won't feel like they're just at his rules knowledge, but at his overall DM credibility, including his creativity. Encourage him to leave the training wheels on, and try to give honest, positive feedback when possible. I have to say, if one of the always-players in my group offered to step up, I'd be as encouraging as possible. "I get more time playing? Yes, please!"
#11 kouk Jul 22, 2009 4:17:02	I think if anything could damage a DM's self esteem (assuming the person is aware of what's going on around the table) is for the players to have a really lousy time throughout, complain about rulings, constantly correct very simple rules mistakes, and get angry with him for not having any idea what's going on. And then not show up anymore. That's what I would take as damaging self esteem at least ;) Maybe he should be a player a bit longer before trying it, so at least he can see whether he doesn't know anything about the combat system.
#12 green_girl Jul 22, 2009 6:20:26	As long as you don't sound accusatory and talk more about feelings and opinions, you'll be fine. It's the difference of "You don't know how to run this game! Read the book." and "I feel like this game is lacking and it would be better if you would read the DM's guide first."
#13 salla Jul 23, 2009 6:40:10	Well, I wasn't too surprised by how the game went. His worries about overpowering us were apparently based on looking at every encounter together rather than one at a time. 20-odd Goblin Cutters, a Blackblade and a Skullcleaver might have been troublesome all together, but when you encounter the minions in clusters of 5 or 6 in small rooms and two PCs have Area Burst 1 at-wills, you cut through things like a hot knife through butter, especially when you're level 3 and facing L1 minions and an L1 Blackblade. To be completely honest, it was a snorefest; in the supposedly 'big climactic' battle at the end, I was accidentally skipped over in initiative twice, but didn't bother saying anything since my actions weren't needed. Nobody in the group used a daily, and we only used encounter powers 'because'. He started realizing the game was dull himself about halfway through, so my advice to read the DMG was well-taken.