Like X player is away from the party (scouting ahead whatever) and he notices several gold coins on the floor. How would I prevent this? Also note my char has a high perception skill so maybe that will help.
PCs will steal from each other from time to time, that's the game.
As far as a way to stop it? Well its hard and tricky to do it without using meta-game knowledge. The best advice I can give is if it gets out of hand, then talk to the DM. But if its just some gold or an item here and there, let it go.
My next character has this peculiar habbit with her potions.. they all look the same save for certain distinguishing marks on the bottles. In public, she would drink the healing potions marked with one symbol, and toss the others, which were alchemist's fire, that wer emarked with another. However, whe nobody was looking, she would switch to the other marked ones.
The reality is that the distingishing mark had no correlation, and she knew which ones where the real healing potions and which ones were alchemists fire by some unassuming notches on the cork tops.
Her reasoning of course was that the kobolds in the area like to nick your items while mobbing you, and run off. (which was already established.) And she had gotten tired of them taking her healing potions.
Guess what the durned fool grabbed and drank?
Now picking up a few coins on the sly while scouting ahead, things like that are properly in the realm of what is acceptable, that's just being smart and in the end that money normally still goes to the betterment of the party in some way.
Now actively stealing from other PC's, especially in combat and things like that should be handled the same way you'd deal with NPC thieves. Catch them and beat them to death.
If character death means the loss of a PC that the player really put time and effort into and didn't want to lose, then the better thing to do would be to let the person know not to do stuff like that - anything that a player does that makes the game not-fun for the other players should be addressed in this way. If it continues, then it should be treated as any other behavior that after someone was asked to stop, they continued to do.
Now, this assumes that the thief's behavior really is something the other players mind. If not, then let the player do what makes them happy. But if even one player is bothered by such behavior, it needs to be addressed and corrected. Fun is fun, but when it bothers another player it stops being fun.
We sort of suspected he was fudging dicerolls or something.. but no matter, the game ended shortly anyways.
Some players like doing bad things to others players, using role-playing as the means and excuse, but for some reason can't accept that it might bother the other people in the group. There's a reason NPCs exist, people. Abuse them all you like.
This is a two sided coin. Part of it is on the clepto and the other part is on you. You are taking stuff that happens in-game and bringing it out...
Some rogues are just greedy and thieving bastards, hence their focus in more subtle skills...Keep it ingame though. Yes it sucks that he rolled a clepto...but take solace that sooner or later he will be caught in game by the party and he will be at the rest of the groups whims.
Seriously though draw the line between in game and out of game.
I'd let the situation resolve itself by letting the other players let the rogue know just how much theft is tolerated.
I have the simple rule that forbids PvP (which stealing is, ultimatly) There are enough riches to steal from NPCs, and enough enemies in the multiverse without having to anger other PCs.
To me though...and most of the people that I have gamed with we can draw a line between what happens in game and what happens in real life...
It is people who take things in game and bring it out of game that are a part of the problem...and I mean a part.
I have the simple rule that forbids PvP (which stealing is, ultimatly) There are enough riches to steal from NPCs, and enough enemies in the multiverse without having to anger other PCs.
I like this. It's simple and straightforward - and it fits well with the team-centered 4e paradigm. Well done!
To me though...and most of the people that I have gamed with we can draw a line between what happens in game and what happens in real life...
It is people who take things in game and bring it out of game that are a part of the problem...and I mean a part.
It's not a matter of making an in-game problem an out-of-game issue, it's a matter of the thief's player being a jerk. If a PC does anything to another PC that that PC's player dislikes, it makes the game less fun. Everyone's a jerk every now and then unintentionally. When it happens, whatever "it" is, the best solution is to say, "it irritates me when your character does X to my character." Although the old-school solution - deal with it in-game exactly as you would with an NPC thief - worked well enough in its day.
And the best solution I've ever encountered is the pre-emptive, "No PvP" rule that HS has. It stops the problem before it starts.
Two words: Cursed Item.
But yeah, a lot of people play rogues to justify being a jerk. If you can, kick them out of your group.
And the player's next character.
And the one after that.
Then call it quits.
If you're good aligned then just repent afterwards.
Basically the players must be told to stop, if they complain that a Rogue behaves that way-then they can't play a rogue anymore, and if they refuse to comply-well simply point them towards the door-its better for the group in the long run.
The problem was.. nobody was catching him.. time and time again, something kept him from being caught. It was infuriating! The one time he botched his pickpocket attempt, he was obscured by smoke, so nobody figured it was him.
We sort of suspected he was fudging dicerolls or something.. but no matter, the game ended shortly anyways.
Okay so you as players know, but your characters don't?
Fuggeddaboutit! Just kill the character for some other reason.
It's not a matter of making an in-game problem an out-of-game issue, it's a matter of the thief's player being a jerk. If a PC does anything to another PC that that PC's player dislikes, it makes the game less fun. Everyone's a jerk every now and then unintentionally. When it happens, whatever "it" is, the best solution is to say, "it irritates me when your character does X to my character." Although the old-school solution - deal with it in-game exactly as you would with an NPC thief - worked well enough in its day.
And the best solution I've ever encountered is the pre-emptive, "No PvP" rule that HS has. It stops the problem before it starts.
This is why so many people complain about having evil people in the group too...
Again, this has never been a big issue because the people I game with are mature. If we do a all evil group and plot and scheme and kill one another...it is not going to make me whine or go over to the player or the PC and kick him in the face...
I honestly do not mind clepto's in the group(it adds realisim because there are a ton of clepto's out there. Leave your wallet with your number and atm cards in a walmart shopping cart and see if it gets returned)...they get caught they get it. Just keep it IC.
Seriously...if it stays in game there is only going to be one thing that happens...
He is going to get caught and get it...
Sure he may get away some more times...hell it may even take longer...
But eventually he is going to get it...
And if you all keep it in game...it could make for quite hilarious memories out of game...
This is a two sided coin. Part of it is on the clepto and the other part is on you. You are taking stuff that happens in-game and bringing it out...
Some rogues are just greedy and thieving bastards, hence their focus in more subtle skills...Keep it ingame though. Yes it sucks that he rolled a clepto...but take solace that sooner or later he will be caught in game by the party and he will be at the rest of the groups whims.
Seriously though draw the line between in game and out of game.
I know what you mean, and sometimes hurt feelings come into play and thats a shame. If a player role-played his character realizing that there could be repurcussions for stealing and then doing it very carefully it would suck but I guess it wouldn't be so bad.
However, some players steal from other PCs as some kind of a power play, knowing the other can't do anything about it. So in a case like that, it can be a player on player offense, not character on character. I think thats an important distinction.
Okay so you as players know, but your characters don't?
Fuggeddaboutit! Just kill the character for some other reason.
It would have been fine if it weren't for his seemingly spectacular rolls that always save him when /he/ needed it.
and that we've had other experiances with this player and his tendancy to fudge dice rolls.
I honestly do not mind clepto's in the group(it adds realisim because there are a ton of clepto's out there. Leave your wallet with your number and atm cards in a walmart shopping cart and see if it gets returned)...they get caught they get it. Just keep it IC.
That's a crime of opportunity, not outright theft from an individual. Most people who would not return the wallet won't return it because of the very, very low chance they would get caught if they instead take the wallet don't return it. Contrast that with sticking your hand into someone's pocket and trying to actively take their wallet from them - increased chance of detection, so most people won't even try it. There is a *huge* difference between the two.
Yes it sucks that he rolled a clepto...but take solace that sooner or later he will be caught in game by the party and he will be at the rest of the groups whims.
Wait, why are they *rolling* for characters, and specifically, using the INSANITY table from AD&D's DMG? That's a character trait that the *PC* comes up with, not something you're supposed to get from rolling dice! That takes character generation to a completely different level! If you're going to have a character creation system that *allows* you to roll up a kleptomaniac, you're eventually going to get a Lawful Good Drow Paladin of Demogorgon with proficiency in Jo Sticks who wears Leather Armor, has an Imp familiar and can cast Magic-User spells as a 5th level Illusionist!
As for your problem, yeah the above story was pointless and just a little off topic. Wait until he is caught and let the players deal with it. If that is the rogue in character then I am sure a bunch of hardened adventurers that worked hard for their loot will want to take it out of the rogue's hide. Things like this will remedy themselves. Odds are about 1 in 20 that he will bumble a skill roll so badly that even the most unperceptive character will notice. With that in mind, don't forget about your other players passive perception, it might be enough to catch the thief. A player trained in perception with good bonuses will have a high enough PP to catch the equally trained thief if he rolls below 10, something he should be doing about 1/2 the time. Of course I don't have the books in front of me so I may be mistaken about how to catch a thief.
Wait, why are they *rolling* for characters, and specifically, using the INSANITY table from AD&D's DMG? That's a character trait that the *PC* comes up with, not something you're supposed to get from rolling dice! That takes character generation to a completely different level! If you're going to have a character creation system that *allows* you to roll up a kleptomaniac, you're eventually going to get a Lawful Good Drow Paladin of Demogorgon with proficiency in Jo Sticks who wears Leather Armor, has an Imp familiar and can cast Magic-User spells as a 5th level Illusionist!
Rolling was used as a synonym for creating. I know you are not daft and think that being a clepto was rolled off of a table. The sarcasm was a little cute though.
Rolling was used as a synonym for creating. I know you are not daft and think that being a clepto was rolled off of a table.
Actually, unless given reason otherwise, I take posters at their word. Yes, I thought you literally meant creating a character via rolling every aspect of it.
The sarcasm was a little cute though.
I thank you.
Although the old-school solution - deal with it in-game exactly as you would with an NPC thief - worked well enough in its day.
You speak as though it wouldn't work as well today.....
Player 2 "Dude...you remember that clepto rogue that you made."
Player 1 "Ya that was awesome. I stole 100g."
Player 3 "Ya and then you fumbled and we found out..."
Player 2 "Haha, he didn't even survive into the second round... don't think you are going to do that again. How you liking Barbarian?"
Yellow Mold. A 'gold plate" was actually a Yellow Mold plate. He had a bright enough light source to cause it to go dormant when he stuffed in his sack. Later when he pulled it out to examine and appraise it (away from the party of course) it let out a blast of spores. He failed his save and died.
The Rogue works for the party, if he steals from the party, then it is time to fire him and get a new worker. The decent thing to do is wait until the party is at a safe spot, and then divide the loot, Give the rogue his fair share, minus what he has stolen or a reasonable fine, and then tell him that he will now part ways as the party needs trustworthy companions. The player can feel free to draw up a new, more trustworthy pc. Problem solved.
That is if the theft is a problem. If the rogue is being reasonable about what he steals then it isn't really an issue.
The reason it is not an issue is because the DM can award treasure in such a way to compenstae for whatt he theif steals. Yes if the rogue steals equipment that the party needs and is overly greedy then it is a problem and the player is being a jerk. However if the Rogue is just taking some "off the top" then the DM can easily compensate by awarding the rogue less magical items that he could use in the treasure parcels. This means the rogue will have to spend that treasure he steals in order to buy his gear.
Simply put, the DM subtracts what the rogue steals from the value of the gear that would normally be found in the treasure that the rogue could use.
I can really see this happening...
Player 2 "Dude...you remember that clepto rogue that you made."
Player 1 "Ya that was awesome. I stole 100g."
Player 3 "Ya and then you fumbled and we found out..."
Player 2 "Haha, he didn't even survive into the second round... don't think you are going to do that again. How you liking Barbarian?"
yea - that's about how it was, although Barbarians didn't exist with the original OD&D books. :D
http://nodwick.humor.gamespy.com/gamespyarchive/index.php?date=2002-01-16
Honestly if I made a character with a penchant for stealing. The party my be victimized at first, but through character development, I would think at some point it would stop. After your "character's" life is in the hands of other's on numerous occasions and you get to know them better they would be "safe." Plus you have seen what they can do in combat and you know if they were to find out that they would not be happy.
Communication is key. Even a simple line like "What is it going to take for your character to view us has family and stop stealing from the rest of the characters?," goes a long way and at least it may make the player ponder on the development of their character.
I have been RPing too long. When I first started out it was difficult to separate my feelings from my characters. It took practice to keep in game knowledge separate from out of game knowledge. To me my character is just a fraction of whatever story is being made.
I tend to ignore whatever my character does not know. If my character finds out, though, I would react appropriate to the character's personality. Depending on what character I would play...it could range from a stern lecture to the thief, killing the thief, turning him into the law, or even sell him into slavery for some Underdark community.