I haven't played this mess in like 6 years! - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

I haven't played this mess in like 6 years!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
dragmonky
Dec 16, 2009 18:24:39 html_removed
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Man, right when I got into high school I started playing football and power lifted in the off season and I just didn't have any time for table top! Man I’ve really missed it and I was just wondering what edition is currently played and if it's past the 2nd do I need to get books or would going around the internet and the wiki give me enough information to try and start a group with a few veteran players. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Really glad I have some time to get back to playing one of my favorite games!
#2
pluisjen
Dec 16, 2009 18:27:14 Current version is 4e.

You can get some basic rules and a premade adventure with some chars here:
www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...

Be warned though; it's supposed to be brutally difficult.
#3
Man_in_the_Funny_Hat
Dec 17, 2009 9:46:38 Current version is 4th Edition. It is SIGNIFICANTLY different in approach than the 2nd Edition AD&D you may be used to. Poking around online will not be sufficient to get you going with 4E - you'll need to buy the books.

Poking around online WILL be enough to get you going with 3rd Edition. It is only somewhat different in approach than 2E was but you will want to be prepared to unlearn some things from 2E that you might be remembering.

Poking around online WILL also give you more of an idea of what version you might try to play at this point - but remember above all...

No version of D&D has an expiration date.
#4
skazzz
Dec 17, 2009 12:30:19 It depends on your personal preferences. If you're going to play with a group of veterans, you might be in for more surprises than you bargained for if you choose to play 4E.

Combat is majorly different in 4E, taking a more tactical approach by default. In earlier editions, you could play without a grid and minis, but you won't get away with that anymore, since all powers measure range, area of effect etc. in terms of squares. Combat roles have are now clearly defined, like in many MMORPGs. These are the roles: Defender (meat shield, tank), Striker (high damage to single targets, "DPS"), Leader (healing, buffing, support) and Controller (battlefield control, many area effects that damage or hinder enemies).
Now, if that's your sort of thing, jump right in. If your combats used to be freeform, i.e. all in the mind's eye, it may take some adjusting.

The same basically goes for skill challenges. IIRC, in 2E you used skills as the opportuny presented itself. Nowadays, there's a whole section of the DMG dedicated to constructing skill challenges appropriate to the party's level. A skill challenge could involve anything, from negotiating with a powerful noble to chasing someone down a busy street, or scaling a high cliff. The party would have to get a certain number of successes in appropriate skills, before rolling a certain number of failures, to achieve what they're trying to do.
Now, these skill challenges count as encounters, so they're worth experience just like a combat encounter.

Now, that isn't the half of it yet, but let me say the following: all of the above fits together like a glove. So does the loot. If your party doesn't get enough loot, it's dead. What I'm trying to say is, if you're looking for a system that's easy to customize/deviate from, stick with 2E or 3E.

#5
nightwalker450
Dec 17, 2009 13:07:12 Looks like the 4e haters got in here first.

4e is current, and by far the easiest edition to pick up. Skill challenges are just an outline of a way to incorporate skills. So that they are more structured, instead of just being random throws. It gives the DM a way to structure an encounter that uses skills, in a similar manner as to how they structure combats.

4e, you can get the quick start online, and a module (which as they have said is difficult). You don't have to use the characters provided, you can use the free demo of the character builder to build your own characters. You can build up to level 3 using the character builder. This will give you a good idea of whats in the system to start with. 3e they have their open source of most everything.

The roles are defined, but new classes become looser and looser to trying to stay strictly to one role. Roles have always existed, now they just give more of a direction for the class as to what you can expect from them. If you want a damage character, you look at Strikers. If you want to protect your allies, you look at Defenders, if you want to do healing and support, you look at Leaders. And if you want to be better at handling groups or impedeing your enemies, look at Controllers. No single class is able to handle every role, leading 4e to be more towards the group mentality, instead of solo capability. But the role only gives their primary purpose, most classes have a secondary role as well, Paladins are Defenders leaning towards Leaders, Fighters are Defenders leaning towards Strikers.

Anyways, I'd recommend looking into both 3e and 4e. If you have the same old group though, and still have the books, you can always just go back to your 2e gaming. 4e you'll have up to date support. 3e has alot of information available, and a fairly active community here as well.

Personally, I love 4e, and since my group has started we haven't touched any other RPG (we usually do a multitude of RPGs not just D&D, but its all fallen away). But, I still keep up with 3.5 (or a sort).. mainly due to playing DDO (D&D Online).

Welcome back to the game!
#6
noneedforaname
Dec 17, 2009 16:41:48 I stopped playing D&D for about 10 years going from 2nd to 4th Ed. and it was a little daunting at first when I looked at the rulebooks and saw how miniature based the combat was. (i think the rules might've been written a little better, but I don't feel like complaining) I borrowed the players handbook for about a week and showed up confused but playing the game quickly ironed everything out. Most of it is pretty intuitive, more easier than trying to explain what thac0 is to a new player.

Some things I like about 4e, level 1 characters have a lot more options in battle than in 2e. You wont have a level 1 wizard who uses burning hands once and then kicks back while the other guys have all the fun. All characters start out with at least 4 powers that can be used daily, per encounter, or at-will. Characters are easier to customize so you make the hero your own, there aren't any limitations on what race can choose what class. If I wanted a dwarven wizard with plate mail, it's possible with some sacrifices. Try using the free character builder download to just mess around and you'd probably be suprised some of the things you can do now.

Some things I don't really care for (but don't neccessarily hate) are the expenses involved. Buying minis and tiles in addition to the books can make it seem like its not really worth it for a few hours of fun. You can get by without them but the game is designed for their use. Of course if you find someone who already has all that then you might as well give it a shot. DMing for 4e is kind of a herculean task to do with just pen and paper, at least for me, but I got a lot better when I started using computer programs like Master Plan to help run encounters.

I can't speak for 3.5, I missed that boat entirely but I don't think that any of the changes are so overwhelming that you won't know what game your playing. Your still rolling dice to beat up goblins, so really, how could you go wrong?
#7
Touchfuzzy
Dec 17, 2009 16:55:37
Some things I don't really care for (but don't neccessarily hate) are the expenses involved. Buying minis and tiles in addition to the books can make it seem like its not really worth it for a few hours of fun. You can get by without them but the game is designed for their use.

I use a battle mat (which cost me around... 35ish I think) and then use a big bag of glass counters (like you see in the bottom of fishtanks) of various colors bought from the crafts section at walmart for miniatures. I use visavis markers to right abbreviations on enemies and such for extra identification. All in all it may have cost me... 45 bucks. And I've had the mats since my 2e days so its not like its something I bought specifically for 4e.

You don't HAVE to have actual miniatures and a bunch of dungeon tiles. Its just helpful to have SOMETHING to put down.
#8
nightwalker450
Dec 18, 2009 9:10:45 Our group did figures, but for the last year we've switched over and use MapTools for our gametable now. This was also so we could keep players who had started moving elsewhere in the country. But otherwise it makes organization easier, and keeps amount of money spent fairly low.
#9
daidojitaidoru
Dec 18, 2009 11:32:03 Not knowing what your groups dynamic is I can't really recomend a system to you straight, but I can tell you this.

Fourth Edition plays much better then it reads, Third Edition reads much better then it plays.

Fourth Ed books look like a textbook, and it's hard to see the class diffrences just by reading. Only if you run a session or two can you see how it all plays out. Third Ed looks like everything 2nd ED wanted to be, until you realize you needed to have taken toughness 2 levels ago in order to enter the presitige class that lets your Fighter/Mage be a Fighter/Mage.

That's not to say both systems don't have flaws and merits, but if you just make your choice off of reading you're in for a surprise.
#10
oxybe
Dec 18, 2009 15:17:29 alright first off, check out my sig for lots of free goodies, including the test drive, character sheets & the two free modules (the first is an updated "keep on the shadowfell" that was originally horribly brutal at times, the second is set in the Eberron setting an i've yet to play it).

read over the quickstart rules and come to us for any clarification, play a session, take note of you and your group's observations/concerns, and come back to us.

if you like the free test drive i recommend getting the box set. i recommend going to your Friendly Local Gaming Store and buying it (as well as supporting the locals), but if none are nearby or you're cheap, Amazon.com has great prices, usually much cheaper then buying it at retail.

as for people complaining about the cost of minis, you're honestly only complaining because you didn't look for alternatives or you're dead set on actual plastic minis made by WotC specifically.

check my sig for the Token Maker. it's a free Java application you can download.
-find a picture online (via google or the 3.5 srd, click the eye icon next to a monster for it's picture)
-click & drag into the app
-zoom and move around as appropriate to get a mugshot you like
-choose the size of token you want (64x64 is a 1x1 inch "medium" token, 32x32 is small, 128x128 is large, ect...)
-save

if you have a program like photoshop (or the free GIMP in my sig), you can import those tokens, copy them and number them on a 8.5x11 sheet of paper & print them. if you're on the internet, i can assume you have a computer, and thus a printer (and the ink+paper required for use of said printer). no extra costs on your part.

if you don't have a battlemat, go on the graph paper link & create a gridded graph, the default being the old 1/4inch light blue graph paper that you can print out for dungeon mapping. you change it to a "1 line per 1 inch" and a black color for the lines to create a simple mat. save and print the pdf.

it's quite easy. heck i only started using minis because i liked the minis game it was originally associated with. before that i used:
-lego
-candy
-bottlecaps
-coins
-scrap paper
-army men
-jenga blocks
-monopoly pieces
-those glass beads mom puts in her flower vase
-ect...

people are far to caught up in the work "mini" when it actually means "a marker to determine your position relative to everything else". now, i have an actual battlemat and i do find it helps. it was also dirt cheap: steve jackson games has a bunch of 2-sided gridded maps for sale. i bough a pack for 10 bucks, gave 15 or 20 bucks to one of the M:tG players who works at the copy shop to laminate two of them.

they've lasted 2 years now but are a bit worse for ware due to misstorage at the FLGS where i normally keep them (one now has a few small holes in it, both are pretty bent and have stained due to bad markers). i still have 2 more unused ones though that i might laminate sometimes in the future.
#11
Touchfuzzy
Dec 18, 2009 16:39:20 yeah, I find people are way too obsessed over having actual miniatures for their characters and the monsters and "OMG IT MAKES IT EXPENSIVE"

Personally, I find the ,"glass bead things that mom puts in the flower vases" as oxybe put it, to be great for marking places. Have enough to have a each PC be a different color, and then like 3-4 different colors for badguys. Dry erase markers to put numbers on the top for recordkeeping, and its good to go.

My battle mats are nice vinyl mats though. They were bought forever ago, and they are really nice tough things.

My brother though really loves minis. He insists on buying ones for me and my wife to match our characters in the game he dms... so I'm just "Ok thanks bro."
#12
skazzz
Dec 18, 2009 22:46:21
Looks like the 4e haters got in here first.

...hater? What ever gave you that idea?
I thought what I posted was a pretty honest appraisal... I love 4E! It's just that if you're planning to deviate a lot from the core rules, you're better off playing an earlier edition, 'cause the math is less tight, right?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dragmonky Dec 16, 2009 18:24:39	html_removed html_removed html_removed html_removed Man, right when I got into high school I started playing football and power lifted in the off season and I just didn't have any time for table top! Man I’ve really missed it and I was just wondering what edition is currently played and if it's past the 2nd do I need to get books or would going around the internet and the wiki give me enough information to try and start a group with a few veteran players. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Really glad I have some time to get back to playing one of my favorite games!
#2 pluisjen Dec 16, 2009 18:27:14	Current version is 4e. You can get some basic rules and a premade adventure with some chars here: www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4... Be warned though; it's supposed to be brutally difficult.
#3 Man_in_the_Funny_Hat Dec 17, 2009 9:46:38	Current version is 4th Edition. It is SIGNIFICANTLY different in approach than the 2nd Edition AD&D you may be used to. Poking around online will not be sufficient to get you going with 4E - you'll need to buy the books. Poking around online WILL be enough to get you going with 3rd Edition. It is only somewhat different in approach than 2E was but you will want to be prepared to unlearn some things from 2E that you might be remembering. Poking around online WILL also give you more of an idea of what version you might try to play at this point - but remember above all... No version of D&D has an expiration date.
#4 skazzz Dec 17, 2009 12:30:19	It depends on your personal preferences. If you're going to play with a group of veterans, you might be in for more surprises than you bargained for if you choose to play 4E. Combat is majorly different in 4E, taking a more tactical approach by default. In earlier editions, you could play without a grid and minis, but you won't get away with that anymore, since all powers measure range, area of effect etc. in terms of squares. Combat roles have are now clearly defined, like in many MMORPGs. These are the roles: Defender (meat shield, tank), Striker (high damage to single targets, "DPS"), Leader (healing, buffing, support) and Controller (battlefield control, many area effects that damage or hinder enemies). Now, if that's your sort of thing, jump right in. If your combats used to be freeform, i.e. all in the mind's eye, it may take some adjusting. The same basically goes for skill challenges. IIRC, in 2E you used skills as the opportuny presented itself. Nowadays, there's a whole section of the DMG dedicated to constructing skill challenges appropriate to the party's level. A skill challenge could involve anything, from negotiating with a powerful noble to chasing someone down a busy street, or scaling a high cliff. The party would have to get a certain number of successes in appropriate skills, before rolling a certain number of failures, to achieve what they're trying to do. Now, these skill challenges count as encounters, so they're worth experience just like a combat encounter. Now, that isn't the half of it yet, but let me say the following: all of the above fits together like a glove. So does the loot. If your party doesn't get enough loot, it's dead. What I'm trying to say is, if you're looking for a system that's easy to customize/deviate from, stick with 2E or 3E.
#5 nightwalker450 Dec 17, 2009 13:07:12	Looks like the 4e haters got in here first. 4e is current, and by far the easiest edition to pick up. Skill challenges are just an outline of a way to incorporate skills. So that they are more structured, instead of just being random throws. It gives the DM a way to structure an encounter that uses skills, in a similar manner as to how they structure combats. 4e, you can get the quick start online, and a module (which as they have said is difficult). You don't have to use the characters provided, you can use the free demo of the character builder to build your own characters. You can build up to level 3 using the character builder. This will give you a good idea of whats in the system to start with. 3e they have their open source of most everything. The roles are defined, but new classes become looser and looser to trying to stay strictly to one role. Roles have always existed, now they just give more of a direction for the class as to what you can expect from them. If you want a damage character, you look at Strikers. If you want to protect your allies, you look at Defenders, if you want to do healing and support, you look at Leaders. And if you want to be better at handling groups or impedeing your enemies, look at Controllers. No single class is able to handle every role, leading 4e to be more towards the group mentality, instead of solo capability. But the role only gives their primary purpose, most classes have a secondary role as well, Paladins are Defenders leaning towards Leaders, Fighters are Defenders leaning towards Strikers. Anyways, I'd recommend looking into both 3e and 4e. If you have the same old group though, and still have the books, you can always just go back to your 2e gaming. 4e you'll have up to date support. 3e has alot of information available, and a fairly active community here as well. Personally, I love 4e, and since my group has started we haven't touched any other RPG (we usually do a multitude of RPGs not just D&D, but its all fallen away). But, I still keep up with 3.5 (or a sort).. mainly due to playing DDO (D&D Online). Welcome back to the game!
#6 noneedforaname Dec 17, 2009 16:41:48	I stopped playing D&D for about 10 years going from 2nd to 4th Ed. and it was a little daunting at first when I looked at the rulebooks and saw how miniature based the combat was. (i think the rules might've been written a little better, but I don't feel like complaining) I borrowed the players handbook for about a week and showed up confused but playing the game quickly ironed everything out. Most of it is pretty intuitive, more easier than trying to explain what thac0 is to a new player. Some things I like about 4e, level 1 characters have a lot more options in battle than in 2e. You wont have a level 1 wizard who uses burning hands once and then kicks back while the other guys have all the fun. All characters start out with at least 4 powers that can be used daily, per encounter, or at-will. Characters are easier to customize so you make the hero your own, there aren't any limitations on what race can choose what class. If I wanted a dwarven wizard with plate mail, it's possible with some sacrifices. Try using the free character builder download to just mess around and you'd probably be suprised some of the things you can do now. Some things I don't really care for (but don't neccessarily hate) are the expenses involved. Buying minis and tiles in addition to the books can make it seem like its not really worth it for a few hours of fun. You can get by without them but the game is designed for their use. Of course if you find someone who already has all that then you might as well give it a shot. DMing for 4e is kind of a herculean task to do with just pen and paper, at least for me, but I got a lot better when I started using computer programs like Master Plan to help run encounters. I can't speak for 3.5, I missed that boat entirely but I don't think that any of the changes are so overwhelming that you won't know what game your playing. Your still rolling dice to beat up goblins, so really, how could you go wrong?
#7 Touchfuzzy Dec 17, 2009 16:55:37	Some things I don't really care for (but don't neccessarily hate) are the expenses involved. Buying minis and tiles in addition to the books can make it seem like its not really worth it for a few hours of fun. You can get by without them but the game is designed for their use. I use a battle mat (which cost me around... 35ish I think) and then use a big bag of glass counters (like you see in the bottom of fishtanks) of various colors bought from the crafts section at walmart for miniatures. I use visavis markers to right abbreviations on enemies and such for extra identification. All in all it may have cost me... 45 bucks. And I've had the mats since my 2e days so its not like its something I bought specifically for 4e. You don't HAVE to have actual miniatures and a bunch of dungeon tiles. Its just helpful to have SOMETHING to put down.
#8 nightwalker450 Dec 18, 2009 9:10:45	Our group did figures, but for the last year we've switched over and use MapTools for our gametable now. This was also so we could keep players who had started moving elsewhere in the country. But otherwise it makes organization easier, and keeps amount of money spent fairly low.
#9 daidojitaidoru Dec 18, 2009 11:32:03	Not knowing what your groups dynamic is I can't really recomend a system to you straight, but I can tell you this. Fourth Edition plays much better then it reads, Third Edition reads much better then it plays. Fourth Ed books look like a textbook, and it's hard to see the class diffrences just by reading. Only if you run a session or two can you see how it all plays out. Third Ed looks like everything 2nd ED wanted to be, until you realize you needed to have taken toughness 2 levels ago in order to enter the presitige class that lets your Fighter/Mage be a Fighter/Mage. That's not to say both systems don't have flaws and merits, but if you just make your choice off of reading you're in for a surprise.
#10 oxybe Dec 18, 2009 15:17:29	alright first off, check out my sig for lots of free goodies, including the test drive, character sheets & the two free modules (the first is an updated "keep on the shadowfell" that was originally horribly brutal at times, the second is set in the Eberron setting an i've yet to play it). read over the quickstart rules and come to us for any clarification, play a session, take note of you and your group's observations/concerns, and come back to us. if you like the free test drive i recommend getting the box set. i recommend going to your Friendly Local Gaming Store and buying it (as well as supporting the locals), but if none are nearby or you're cheap, Amazon.com has great prices, usually much cheaper then buying it at retail. as for people complaining about the cost of minis, you're honestly only complaining because you didn't look for alternatives or you're dead set on actual plastic minis made by WotC specifically. check my sig for the Token Maker. it's a free Java application you can download. -find a picture online (via google or the 3.5 srd, click the eye icon next to a monster for it's picture) -click & drag into the app -zoom and move around as appropriate to get a mugshot you like -choose the size of token you want (64x64 is a 1x1 inch "medium" token, 32x32 is small, 128x128 is large, ect...) -save if you have a program like photoshop (or the free GIMP in my sig), you can import those tokens, copy them and number them on a 8.5x11 sheet of paper & print them. if you're on the internet, i can assume you have a computer, and thus a printer (and the ink+paper required for use of said printer). no extra costs on your part. if you don't have a battlemat, go on the graph paper link & create a gridded graph, the default being the old 1/4inch light blue graph paper that you can print out for dungeon mapping. you change it to a "1 line per 1 inch" and a black color for the lines to create a simple mat. save and print the pdf. it's quite easy. heck i only started using minis because i liked the minis game it was originally associated with. before that i used: -lego -candy -bottlecaps -coins -scrap paper -army men -jenga blocks -monopoly pieces -those glass beads mom puts in her flower vase -ect... people are far to caught up in the work "mini" when it actually means "a marker to determine your position relative to everything else". now, i have an actual battlemat and i do find it helps. it was also dirt cheap: steve jackson games has a bunch of 2-sided gridded maps for sale. i bough a pack for 10 bucks, gave 15 or 20 bucks to one of the M:tG players who works at the copy shop to laminate two of them. they've lasted 2 years now but are a bit worse for ware due to misstorage at the FLGS where i normally keep them (one now has a few small holes in it, both are pretty bent and have stained due to bad markers). i still have 2 more unused ones though that i might laminate sometimes in the future.
#11 Touchfuzzy Dec 18, 2009 16:39:20	yeah, I find people are way too obsessed over having actual miniatures for their characters and the monsters and "OMG IT MAKES IT EXPENSIVE" Personally, I find the ,"glass bead things that mom puts in the flower vases" as oxybe put it, to be great for marking places. Have enough to have a each PC be a different color, and then like 3-4 different colors for badguys. Dry erase markers to put numbers on the top for recordkeeping, and its good to go. My battle mats are nice vinyl mats though. They were bought forever ago, and they are really nice tough things. My brother though really loves minis. He insists on buying ones for me and my wife to match our characters in the game he dms... so I'm just "Ok thanks bro."
#12 skazzz Dec 18, 2009 22:46:21	Looks like the 4e haters got in here first. ...hater? What ever gave you that idea? I thought what I posted was a pretty honest appraisal... I love 4E! It's just that if you're planning to deviate a lot from the core rules, you're better off playing an earlier edition, 'cause the math is less tight, right?