After a hiatus of a few years from the game, I've come back with a group playing 4e. There's six of us, including the DM. One of the players is my age, three are 3 years older (including the DM), and one is 2 years older.
I am, by nature, a relatively negative person. I just am. It's not something I can help. I've also developed an obsession with my Halfling Feylock's teleportation, but more on that later.
The group is me, a cleric, a fighter, a ranger, and a rogue. The cleric and fighter entered relatively late, after the rest of us finished up a quest or two. They're nice people, but the cleric has been treating me like crap, and I think it's starting to rub off on the rest of the group. It probably doesn't help that I'm younger than them, and have a tendency to talk a lot. However, it didn't seem like that much of a problem before.
I guess I should talk a little bit more about my habits: I'm perpetually tired, which probably adds to my negativity, and sometimes like to lay my head on the table when it's not my turn: I listen to what's going on, but sometimes keeping my head up feels like a huge drain on my energy (not kidding). I also talk a lot when people aren't being mean, and I love to find ways to maximize my teleportation capabilities. This translates into me having one-sided discussions with group members about whether or not I should take a power that deals more damage, and doesn't let me teleport, or one that lets me teleport but deals less damage.
Last meeting, when laying my head on the table, I accidentally nudged the battle-map and knocked our DM's carefully laid-out room. I only messed up one wall, but the cleric exploded, the ranger did a sort of "stern look" thing, and the fighter just laughed. The rogue wasn't there. This just ticked me off: a simple mistake that is easily rectified should not, I feel, merit a verbal beat-down (albeit relatively short).
That's just one example, but I don't feel like giving more at the moment. Basically I feel that if someone's angry, they use anything remotely stupid I say to take out their anger. I think that my 'attitude' and stuff are a large part of the problem, but I don't think it's entirely me: and there's only so much about me that I can change.
The DM seems to dislike my attitude too, as does the ranger. I really love the game, and they're nice people, but I don't feel like I'm fitting in all that well. Should I just leave, or try to talk it over with the DM?
Ones that understand you buddie. That know of your tired problems or so.
Talk to them openly explaining the situation if you're not afraid of it.
The DM is just another normal guy, he can't solve problems like that.
Also, my fiancee has those tired times as well and she discovered recently that is a disease. You should check a doc too.
If you know you are talking a lot, and having a lot of one-sided discussions, then try to stop it, or minimize it. Talking too much can be really distracting to others, and it can also make it seem (whether you are or not) like you are trying to be the focus of attention. Since you are already aware of yourself talking a lot, just try to ratchet it down a little. Alternatively, try to include others in the conversations more.
Resting your head on the table is probably something you simply need to stop. I know that you aren't doing it to be annoying, but you've already disrupted the game with it. Given that this can happen again, it's much better to not do it. Also, you do this when it isn't your turn, and you are aware that it may make people think you aren't paying attention. You (by your own admission) talk a lot, often one-sided, and you do something on other people's turns that makes it look like you aren't paying attention to them.
This makes you come off as really self-centered, whether you mean to or not. You can't even bother to watch whats going on when someone else has a turn (this is a perception, not necessarily reality).
Try to get plenty of rest before the game. Try to keep your energy up during the game (coffee, soda, sugar). Perhaps get up and move around if that helps you with your energy level. If you do need to rest, try to find some way that isn't potentially disruptive (move to the couch, move to a recliner, get a chair with a head rest).
Honestly, the fact that you are aware of these behaviors, and aware of how people could perceive them, means that you are already two-thirds of the way there to solving them. You just need to make the decision to modify the behaviors that you already know are bothering people.
If you know the behaviors are bothering people, and you can't be bothered to modify or minimize them, then maybe you are a jerk :D and you need to get used to it.
Finally, as another suggestion, we have had people with "personality issues" in our groups before. These people wanted to be liked, but simply had long-standing habits which were really annoying, and difficult to eradicate. They simply found out other things which people LIKED, and emphasized those. One guy who was honestly pretty annoying in a lot of ways, made sure to play characters who were good supporting characters, tried to always help out the other characters, consciously praised other characters (and players) for their good tactics and actions, and made really delicious food to bring. If you can't stop being annoying in some way, be really likable in others.
Accidents happen and no one should be making a big deal out of them when they happen. That said, I think it's pretty clear from your own version of the story that they're not really mad about the accident, and that it was just the last straw for one of them to snap.
Any game I played in, people make -suggestions- about how to make a character, and usually either when asked directly or when someone clearly makes a decision that does not achieve the effect that they wanted. I would find it incredibly rude to be constantly judged on how I built my character if I'm clearly happy with it.
Are they playing a particularly challenging, combat-tactics heavy game? If the game is built around the DM pushing the party's limits most of the time, where the players are required to build an optimal team with optimal builds, then I can see their frustration. That would be case of: the game you want to play is different from what everyone else is playing.
If you're playing a more averaged out game where it's okay to have more rounded, thematic characters, then the other players are out of line giving you a hard time about how you build it as long as it's not overly absurd (which sounds like is not the case).
Also, I have to strongly disagree with your comments like "I just am. It's not something I can help." Even if at the core of your being you always feel negative, which I'm sure can be changed with effort, that's no excuse for inflicting it on other people when they're trying to have fun. You can absolutely change how you interact with other people and how you express yourself. Keep in mind that even if you do, it will take some time for those hard feelings in the group to go away. They were built up over time, they will go away over time too.
Finally, why are you so tired? You should be able to keep your head up, that sounds like a bigger problem than D&D. Are you always playing after a really heavy meal? Or long past your normal sleep time? Are you diabetic? I mean, I think pretty much everyone has sort of phased out or dozed off, but it shouldn't be chronic like you described.
And yes, if you're unwilling to change your attitude or table-side manner, or if you cannot reconcile with them playing a non-minmaxed character, you should find a new gaming group. If things go as you described, it's only going to get worse. Certainly it's worth talking to the DM or the group, but you should be prepared to give a little if you're expecting them to give a little. If you're not, I'm not sure what you're expecting them to say or do.
Talking alot can mean one of two things - constant off-topic rambling will **** anyone off, especially if the DM has to compete with it. Monopolizing the RP time also tends to irritate players, for obvious reasons.
Suggestion - buy a couple Red Bulls, get your head off the table, and tone down the talking for a session. If the others treat you better, even if it's just towards the end, you'll be making progress.
Now, where character build is concerned - it's your character, stick with it.
As for the powers thing, tell them that when they decide to make a Halfling Feylock, they can do so however they choose, but until then, you would prefer if they with held judgement. Its not like the group is hurting for damage with a fighter, rogue and ranger.
I've been trying to tone-down my talking, but it's stupidly hard. I keep 'forgetting', and then I go off on some tangent, related to the game or not, and I get some sort of sharp response.
The game isn't particularly tactics-based, since most of the players are completely new to the game. We do spend fairly large amounts of time trying to figure out why a room is glowing, or what some documents read, but not large chunks at a time. When I say 'fairly large amounts', I mean total: the world we're set in calls on a lot of that. With my Feylock, I deal a lot of damage, and most of our combat is based off of that: getting the dragon down before he can practically one-shot another one of us. I think next time my teleportation comes up, I'll say something like, "Look: I deal a lot of damage, and my teleportation is not detrimental to the group."
I guess I'll follow all of everyone's great advice and see what happens next meeting: if it's still an issue, maybe I'm not trying hard enough, or maybe it is the group afterall. I'd hate for that to be the case though: they're nice people otherwise, and I think it's the only group in the area with people close to my age.
D&D is a game and you should be having fun, if not something's wrong. I think you're right in that some of your fellow players have gotten a little annoyed with your habits and that can lead to outbursts when things come to a head like accidentally messing up the map. It can be difficult to change peoples opinions but it's not impossible, some people might tell you to find a different group the you get along with better, but I know that's easier said than done, gaming groups don't grow on trees in most places. You say you're honestly too tired to hold your head up sometimes? Some players might get annoyed at this behavior and think you're not taking the game seriously enough, (I know how dumb that sounds but I've ran into it before, working 3rd shift and trying to stay up to play D&D in the past) but it can come off as seeming disrespectful. You might not be getting enough sleep or like me, suffer from sleep apnea (choking in my sleep), or suffer from countless other conditions that leave you drained of energy. If you love the game but have trouble keeping your head up it might be worth looking into, lack of energy can seriously bring down your quality of life in every field, your job, school, relationships etc. I don't mean mean to sound alarmist, I don't know, maybe you're just working to hard, heh.
I don't know much about being overly talkative, I have the opposite problem myself, my game masters are more often frustrated that I never talk, so I don't know that my advice here would be useful at all. You're aware of the problem just try to be mindful of it. Think about what you want to say and only say and whether or not it's important. Try not to talk over other people (I know this can be a tall order while playing D&D, if there's one common trait I've seen amongst gaming groups is that there's usually someone that -loves- talking over people) but don't keep quiet and let opportunities to add something that contributes meaningfully to the conversation slip past you, interject politely before the discussion continues. If you think you may be rambling or otherwise being overly verbose, just bring it to a close asap. If someone wants you to expound on your ideas they'll probably press you on it.
If you're having friction over your character build well, there's two ways to go. You can say "Screw you guys" and take teleport powers out the wazzoo or you can say "Let's Play ball," take the powers they recommend and hope that alleviates some of the tension between you and the annoyed party members. Or you can try a half and half approach to show them you're willing to try. In art school I noticed there were 2 kinds of artists, one that painted whatever he wanted and typically got bad grades and one who painted exactly what the professor wanted and got good grades. Do you maintain your artistic integrity or do you give the audience what it wants to see? This is your call here but I'd say it couldn't hurt to try meeting them half way, while keeping a few of your teleport powers around for fun.
Don't be their punching bag. Talk to them. One at a time, or all together if necessary. Communication, honesty, and openness are key to turning this kind of problem around. Don't be intimidated by age differences. They have -no right- to **** on you just because they're older.
Secondly, give us a physical description of yourself. Are you healthy? Active? Physically active with a girl? Overweight?
You should know what days you play ahead of time. On those days lay down get some good rest have a good breakfast get some exercise and let your actions reflect that you are paying attention to the game.
It is quite rude to lay your head down during the game regardless of the situation. If I had a player do it on more than one occasion I would probably ask them not to return.
I've also been the player who had issues that detracted from the game and my DM at the time did the same thing for me. I was not as self-aware as you, but the DM got with me nicely about what was going on and helped guide me in a better direction that made the game more fun for me and the others there.
If your DM isn't getting with you, the best thing you can do is get with your DM and ask for a hand. Any DM worth the role will gladly help you, and will do that nicely.
The laying your head on the table issue though...that would get annoying fast.
Have you considered that you might just need a thicker skin?
Also, my fiancee has those tired times as well and she discovered recently that is a disease. You should check a doc too.
I have a friend who was always tired. Turned out she had celiac disease and didn't know it. Fortunately it was diagnosed before things got too serious.
Hi--
After a hiatus of a few years from the game, I've come back with a group playing 4e. There's six of us, including the DM. One of the players is my age, three are 3 years older (including the DM), and one is 2 years older.
I am, by nature, a relatively negative person. I just am. It's not something I can help. I've also developed an obsession with my Halfling Feylock's teleportation, but more on that later.
The group is me, a cleric, a fighter, a ranger, and a rogue. The cleric and fighter entered relatively late, after the rest of us finished up a quest or two. They're nice people, but the cleric has been treating me like crap, and I think it's starting to rub off on the rest of the group. It probably doesn't help that I'm younger than them, and have a tendency to talk a lot. However, it didn't seem like that much of a problem before.
I guess I should talk a little bit more about my habits: I'm perpetually tired, which probably adds to my negativity, and sometimes like to lay my head on the table when it's not my turn: I listen to what's going on, but sometimes keeping my head up feels like a huge drain on my energy (not kidding). I also talk a lot when people aren't being mean, and I love to find ways to maximize my teleportation capabilities. This translates into me having one-sided discussions with group members about whether or not I should take a power that deals more damage, and doesn't let me teleport, or one that lets me teleport but deals less damage.
Last meeting, when laying my head on the table, I accidentally nudged the battle-map and knocked our DM's carefully laid-out room. I only messed up one wall, but the cleric exploded, the ranger did a sort of "stern look" thing, and the fighter just laughed. The rogue wasn't there. This just ticked me off: a simple mistake that is easily rectified should not, I feel, merit a verbal beat-down (albeit relatively short).
That's just one example, but I don't feel like giving more at the moment. Basically I feel that if someone's angry, they use anything remotely stupid I say to take out their anger. I think that my 'attitude' and stuff are a large part of the problem, but I don't think it's entirely me: and there's only so much about me that I can change.
The DM seems to dislike my attitude too, as does the ranger. I really love the game, and they're nice people, but I don't feel like I'm fitting in all that well. Should I just leave, or try to talk it over with the DM?
Get some proper sleep, stop whining and quit feeling sorry for yourself. If you do all this, these problems should go away,
Coping with a player with chronic tiredness is no harder than accomodating players with back or neck injuries, babies, tight schedules, speech impediments, depression, transport difficulties, or ADHD, and if you haven't yet had the pleasure of playing with anyone in those categories then you probably just haven't been playing long enough.
D&D's a group activity, and if a player's genuinely enthusiastic about the game and genuinely wants to take a constructive role in the game, then you talk about it, and accomodate their difficulties.
Get some proper sleep, stop whining and quit feeling sorry for yourself. If you do all this, these problems should go away,
Not helpful, Mufflon. Let's assume if it was as simple as this Xavorin wouldn't have gone to the trouble of registering as a new member on the boards and asking for help from the community.
Thanks for all the great responses. I don't think my tired-ness is a sickness or anything, but then I don't know what it is. I'll definitely start bringing some energy-full food, and try to get some sleep before too.
Could be iron deficiency ... a while ago (after moving into college and making Ramen my meal of choice) I started getting periods where I would just be tired for no reason. I'd get 'bouts' of relative energy when I'd be able to function normally, but most of the time I'd just be drifting. Told my mom about it, she suggested I start taking vitamins again (Flintstones variety!
), and I haven't had that problem since.One of the players is my age, three are 3 years older (including the DM), and one is 2 years older.
So you are the same age basically. Three years difference isn't really anything unless you are around 18 or so.
I am, by nature, a relatively negative person. I just am. It's not something I can help.
Stop that. I mean it. It is something you can change, it may be hard, but this is the thing that cause problems in all areas of your life. I'm not picking on you, but people generally don't enjoy being around negative people.
Last meeting, when laying my head on the table, I accidentally nudged the battle-map and knocked our DM's carefully laid-out room.
Did you apologize sincerely? Also, try not do the head thing, it comes off as you being very self centered and only thinking of yourself and what affects you. Rest your head on your hand propping it up. Try to give the impression you care about what others are doing. If you are so tired you literally can't keep your head up, you may need either more sleep or medical help. You seem to love the game, and that should be enough to be energetic enough, so i'm guessing one of those.
the cleric exploded, the ranger did a sort of "stern look" thing, and the fighter just laughed
.
So one got upset, one mildly irritated and one seemed to take it in stride, and you took this as a verbal beat down? Again, were you understanding of why your actions upset them and why they reacted that way?
I think that my 'attitude' and stuff are a large part of the problem, but I don't think it's entirely me: and there's only so much about me that I can change.
Your behavior is the only thing you can change. I'd say your attitude is the major part of the problem from how you describe things. I don't mean for this to be taken as my laying into you, but your behavior and attitude is all under your control, and if you are so tired so much, then please do seek advice on what could be wrong.
My talking doesn't exactly get as much complaints, as harsh responses that I interpret as, "Shut up, you're being really annoying."
I think for now I'm going to try different methods to keep my energy up during meetings, and try to not let people get under my skin. Apologize for mistakes, and just roll with what happens.
Don't listen to the people that say "get over being negative". If you have a mild form of depression or lacking certain vitamins, it's the same as telling a diabetic to "get over it". If there's a problem it may need treatment.
Don't listen to the people that say "get over being negative". If you have a mild form of depression or lacking certain vitamins, it's the same as telling a diabetic to "get over it". If there's a problem it may need treatment.
I hope i didn't come across as "get over it", I personally have a very severe form of depression, and know how hard it is to change. The thing is i have also learned how much it affects others and how they treat me, so did what i had to do (and will have to do probably for the rest of my life) to improve it. He actually reminds me a lot of myself when i was younger, tired at times, obsessively eager other times, so yeah. I do think it's a great thing he realizes that he has a negative attitude though and that is a good start.
Something to keep in mind too though, sometimes friends pick on their friends the most. Kind of shows they care, otherwise they would just ignore and not hang out. If that makes any sense.
My talking doesn't exactly get as much complaints, as harsh responses that I interpret as, "Shut up, you're being really annoying."
Perhaps it is not how much you talk, but what you say.
> After a hiatus of a few years from the game, I've come back with a group playing 4e. There's six of us, including the DM. One of the players is my age, three are 3 years older (including the DM), and one is 2 years older.
Age isn't really an issue. One of the worst idiots I played with was at least 40.
>I am, by nature, a relatively negative person. I just am. It's not something I can help. I've also developed an obsession with my Halfling Feylock's teleportation, but more on that later.
Uh, I'm as pessimistic as they come, but it doesn't mean I act negative while playing. Do you constantly whine when you take damage or something doesn't go your way? I hate players like that.
> The group is me, a cleric, a fighter, a ranger, and a rogue. The cleric and fighter entered relatively late, after the rest of us finished up a quest or two. They're nice people, but the cleric has been treating me like crap, and I think it's starting to rub off on the rest of the group. It probably doesn't help that I'm younger than them, and have a tendency to talk a lot. However, it didn't seem like that much of a problem before.
More details required.
> I guess I should talk a little bit more about my habits: I'm perpetually tired, which probably adds to my negativity, and sometimes like to lay my head on the table when it's not my turn: I listen to what's going on, but sometimes keeping my head up feels like a huge drain on my energy (not kidding). I also talk a lot when people aren't being mean, and I love to find ways to maximize my teleportation capabilities. This translates into me having one-sided discussions with group members about whether or not I should take a power that deals more damage, and doesn't let me teleport, or one that lets me teleport but deals less damage.
Lay your head on the table? And you DONT understand why people don't like you? I'd tell you to go home and get some sleep. Imagine the huge drain on the game pacing where I have to wake you up just to do something.
Get some bed rest. How long do you sleep per night? Some people need up to 10 hours. Oh and don't bother people. I have social problems at work and I managed to fix them. Get over it.
> Last meeting, when laying my head on the table, I accidentally nudged the battle-map and knocked our DM's carefully laid-out room. I only messed up one wall, but the cleric exploded, the ranger did a sort of "stern look" thing, and the fighter just laughed. The rogue wasn't there. This just ticked me off: a simple mistake that is easily rectified should not, I feel, merit a verbal beat-down (albeit relatively short).
Mostly certainly did merit a "verbal beat-down". I'd join in. Not only are you disruptive and "negative", but you knock things over and lay your head on the table, which I would interpret as not finding my game interesting enough to play.
> That's just one example, but I don't feel like giving more at the moment. Basically I feel that if someone's angry, they use anything remotely stupid I say to take out their anger. I think that my 'attitude' and stuff are a large part of the problem, but I don't think it's entirely me: and there's only so much about me that I can change.
See... just one example means you did other disruptive things. There are many things you can change. Its easy.
> The DM seems to dislike my attitude too, as does the ranger. I really love the game, and they're nice people, but I don't feel like I'm fitting in all that well. Should I just leave, or try to talk it over with the DM?
I would hate your opinion too.
Why not just stop being disruptive? Think before you act and get enough sleep. Problem solved.
Turns out he had sleep apnea. Seriously, if you have a pattern of fatigue issues, talk to a doctor -- there's a substantial chance that it is physical.
I think next time my teleportation comes up, I'll say something like, "Look: I deal a lot of damage, and my teleportation is not detrimental to the group."
I didn't see in your first post where they had issues with your choice of Powers, just the way that you seem to be telling them your thought process when deciding on those Powers. ;)
If they are giving you issues, I'd suggest that you point our just what those Teleportation abilities will mean when you get your Paragon Path (which is where I think you're going with this). I had an Eladrin Feylock myself which I started to build the same way before the group disbanded.
((I'm still catching up on the comments in this thread, so you may hear from me later if I feel I can be of more help.))
The level of fatigue you describe isn't normal. It could be a medical issue, it could be depression, or it could be related to a sleep disorder. Do you have trouble sleeping at night? Do you sleep more than 8 hours a night, or less than 7? If you aren't getting 8 hours of sleep per night, try to change things to let you get that much sleep for a few weeks, and see if it makes you feel better - more in control of yourself, and more able to handle when the others are obnoxious.
If that isn't the issue OR if you try but fail to get that much sleep, please go see a doctor. The reason I think it's important is that, if you have a medical issue/depression/a sleep disorder, that could be interfering with your ability to edit your own behavior. That is, if you're constantly exhausted, of course you're going to be talking too much and blurting out things you perhaps wouldn't want to say. And if there is such an issue, getting a diagnosis can lead to some tools for coping with the problem, which should lead to you feeling more in control of yourself. (It should also be an explanation the others should be able to understand, and that should make them more compassionate to you, assuming they have any level of maturity at all.)
It can't hurt - might be just a little depression. Doc can prescribe for ya a single pill to make you feel better. I was in a similar state when I was that age, unable to sleep at night... and got a healthy dose of heckling from other kids (I think its a story the average D&D nerd can relate to).
I'm totally guessing, but the emphasis you put on them being older makes me think you're somewhere in between 14-18. It's definitely not healthy for a kid that age to be unable to keep his head up at a table, providing you're getting more than 6 hours of sleep a night.
Try not to let it get you down, but if they become relentless - especially after you've taken some of the above suggestions and talked it out with the DM - don't feel compelled to put up with their ****.
My talking doesn't exactly get as much complaints, as harsh responses that I interpret as, "Shut up, you're being really annoying."
I think for now I'm going to try different methods to keep my energy up during meetings, and try to not let people get under my skin. Apologize for mistakes, and just roll with what happens.
If you think they are saying this, then perhaps the best thing to do is follow what you feel their advice is. Talk only in-game unless directly addressed and then be as brief as possible. If they try to draw you into more conversation, then follow their lead but provide less input than you think/hope they want or need. If they don't, consider that issue resolved.
Taking Red Bull or something might be a good move to keep you alert during games, to resolve the other issue.
My advice is to have a talk with wichever other guy you like the most (or think will be the most honest) and ask what the others think about you, and explain that you feal like your not fitting in/getting along well/whatever. As a negitive person you could simply be interpriting the others actins as harsher than they are intended.
In a more broader sense of advice "The simplest way to be happy, is to be happy with simple things"
You CAN help being negative. Just don't do it.
You're not the punching bag. You THINK you're the punching bag. There's a big, yet subtle difference. Instead of feeling persecuted, realize that you ARE being a problem at the table and fix it. I have a friend that can't pull himself out of the powergamer mentality, even though he's aware that he holds that point of view. It gets REALLY annoying. I come from a power gamer background, but I have learned to not try to get the DM to play a game he doesn't want to play.
On the 'being tired' issue:
You obviously need to either:
a. Get more, or better, sleep
b. Exercise
c. Exercise
d. Uh, EXERCISE
Run a mile every other day, at least. Lift some weights. Don't eat fast food. Take some vitamins and supplements. Drink some coffee. Don't drink alcohol. Additionally, STOP BEING NEGATIVE. Your negative point of view is obviously affecting your wakefulness. These kinds of things are both phsyical, and mental. You CAN help it, you just don't WANT to change.
At least you realize the troubles you face. Now that you see them, deal with them. Don't expect OTHERS to deal with them. It's your responsibility, and yours alone.
If you are experiencing excessive negativity, paired with obsessive behavior, and extreme fatigue, these are signs there could be a problem. I would definately go and get a checkup. I'd see a medical doctor, AND a councillor. Depression can be serious, but it could be a physical thing, so cover your bases.
Also, it is a VERY bad idea to try to combat chronic fatigue by loading up on caffiene, sugars, energy drinks and the like. You can seriously damage your health, and if you already have an issue (diabetic, etc) this could make it much worse. The best thing to do, other than seeing proffesionals, is to make the following changes. If it's a lifestyle thing, you will start feeling much better in only a week or two.
1. Sleep regularly, at NIGHT. Sleeping during the day throws off your cicadian rythem, and is not as restful. Try to sleep a solid 8 hours, at the same time each night.
2. Exercise, if if you are tired. It is a proven fact that the endorphins released during exercise will have a positive effect on your mood, and you will find your energy levels increasing, while at the same time you will have more restful sleep. Try for 30 minutes per day minimum (a brisk walk in the outdoors is probably best, fresh air and sunshine can do wonders for your mood as well).
3. Cut the junk food. fast food, sugary foods like candy and chocolate bars, greasy foods like chips and cheesies, and fatty foods like dips and the like can give you a temporary boost in energy, but you will quickly crash, feeling even worse. Also, these foods play havoc with your blood sugar levels, which can lead to mood swings (depressed to hyper/manic, irritability and negativity) and fatigue. If going on for to long, you can build insulin problems, including diabetes. Best to stick with natural foods, fruits, veggies, whole grains, low fat dairy, and the like, in balanced portions. Nuts are a great source of energy for a pick me up that won't crash you out. Also, take a daily multivitamin, as you may be lacking in certain vitamins and minerals. It can help round out your nutrition.
4. finally, cut out sugary drinks, and heavily caffenated drinks, especialy energy drinks like Rockstar or Red bull. These can play havoc with your system, leading to crashs, headaches, heart palpitations, nervousness, fatigue, and worse. If you need a pick me up, try some Green tea. It will clear toxins out of your system, help you lose weight if you need to, help stablaize your blood sugars, and best of all, it will give you a natural energy boost without the crash.
Hope this helps!
I am, by nature, a relatively negative person. I just am. It's not something I can help.
I'm perpetually tired, which probably adds to my negativity, and sometimes like to lay my head on the table when it's not my turn: I listen to what's going on, but sometimes keeping my head up feels like a huge drain on my energy (not kidding).
I think that my 'attitude' and stuff are a large part of the problem, but I don't think it's entirely me: and there's only so much about me that I can change.
Should I just leave, or try to talk it over with the DM?
Hi mate, you say that you feel negative and perpetually tired. These are cardinal symptoms of depression.
You need to see your GP if these symptoms have been going on for longer than a couple of months. Brief cognitive behavioural therapy works wonders.
Things that you can do without outside help include:
Having a structured life style.
Being active at least 30mins cadio every day.
Setting goals for yourself that are reasonable for you to achieve.
Taking time to enagage in some for of plesurable activity.
Reading a self help cognitive behavioural therapy work book such as Overcoming Depression and Low Mood: A 5 Areas Approach (by Chris Williams).
The big thing to remember is that we don't have to put up with how we feel. You say that being a negative person is not something you can help. We can choose to change how we feel: it's difficult but very possible.
With the right help one can recognise negative thoughts, feelings and behviours for what they are and modify them to be more constructive.
I've been in your shoes, I think.
Yes, they can't stand you. You are negative. Try being around a negative person of a course of time. You think your tired? I'm sure everyone else is more tired of you. As for not being able to change your negative ways.
YES YOU CAN, the truth is you don't want to.
If you are having actual physical/mental issues that make you tired, see a doctor/therapist. It may actually be something.
Otherwise, you are just playing for pity. It's one of the two, a serious medical or physical condition, or you are looking for pity.
So what you have done is come here, posted in a way to make you the victim, but you are just the victim of your own actions.
Grow up, stop the emo crap, and have fun. But by all the gods, stop boring people with your made up, self inflicted woes.
Grow up, stop the emo crap, and have fun. But by all the gods, stop boring people with your made up, self inflicted woes.
Harsh words, dude. As a mental health professional it pains me to here this atitude from a gamer.
Just quit. You don't want to make any effort to change or get along, so why keep inflicting your attitude on the rest of the group.
Yes, they can't stand you. You are negative. Try being around a negative person of a course of time. You think your tired? I'm sure everyone else is more tired of you. As for not being able to change your negative ways.
YES YOU CAN, the truth is you don't want to.
If you are having actual physical/mental issues that make you tired, see a doctor/therapist. It may actually be something.
Otherwise, you are just playing for pity. It's one of the two, a serious medical or physical condition, or you are looking for pity.
So what you have done is come here, posted in a way to make you the victim, but you are just the victim of your own actions.
Grow up, stop the emo crap, and have fun. But by all the gods, stop boring people with your made up, self inflicted woes.
... whoa.
Um - so what WoW PvP server do *you* play on? Let me know, in case I need to transfer. lol
Harsh words, dude. As a mental health professional it pains me to here this attitude from a gamer.
Why? You should be most aware that, if this is the OP's problem and not something simpler like diet and lack of bedrest combined with poor social skills, depression and mental conditions drive away friends and family simply because it often involves the patient having unacceptable behavior. We can't just baby him and tolerate poor behavior when it detracts from everybody else's conditions. This isn't Elementary School, where we are forced to "play nice" (viz. tolerate unduly) with disruptive people. Part of being an adult is fixing your own problems, either by yourself or by finding help.
Why? You should be most aware that, if this is the OP's problem and not something simpler like diet and lack of bedrest combined with poor social skills, depression and mental conditions drive away friends and family simply because it often involves the patient having unacceptable behavior. We can't just baby him and tolerate poor behavior when it detracts from everybody else's conditions. This isn't Elementary School, where we are forced to "play nice" (viz. tolerate unduly) with disruptive people. Part of being an adult is fixing your own problems, either by yourself or by finding help.
I think there's a difference between "babying someone," and "recommending they see a doctor." That's what many, if not most, are saying.
Depression can be just a chemical imbalance in your brain - easily corrected by taking a single pill. That kind of depression can hit anyone... your brain stops producing enough of Column A, and there's too much Column B... your personality changes.
It's not natural for a kid to be unable to keep his head off a desk, but I don't think the solution is necessarily cussing him out, calling him an attention-mongering emo, good for nothing kid who needs to grow up.
We're anonymous posters on a forum. He's asked for help, so we're giving him advice. It's not our job to judge him - his DM and the other players are doing that just fine. They shamed him into seeking advice... so no sense beating a dead horse now.
I think there's a difference between "babying someone," and "recommending they see a doctor." That's what many, if not most, are saying.
Depression can be just a chemical imbalance in your brain - easily corrected by taking a single pill. That kind of depression can hit anyone... your brain stops producing enough of Column A, and there's too much Column B... your personality changes.
It's not natural for a kid to be unable to keep his head off a desk, but I don't think the solution is necessarily cussing him out, calling him an attention-mongering emo, good for nothing kid who needs to grow up.
We're anonymous posters on a forum. He's asked for help, so we're giving him advice. It's not our job to judge him - his DM and the other players are doing that just fine. They shamed him into seeking advice... so no sense beating a dead horse now.
No one here, not even you can diagnosis if he really has a problem. Even I have said, you should go see someone. That's the ONLY advice he should accept. Any other advice is babying him.
If you are in the mental health profession, you should have picked up how much justification for his behavior he is asking for. Also, you are assuming EVERYTHING he says, is true. And a mental health person, you should realize, that's seldom the case. So, you let him be the victim, and everyone else is abusing him. There is no way any of it could be his fault.
So, ruling out any actual mental/medical issues, then what are we left with? It's the way he is acting. And that's his own doing.
I'm addressing that reality, because there is no way to know if the other reality has any basis for fact. It could also be an attempt to get some sort of diagnosis so that he can go back and say, you shouldn't pick on me for how I act, I can't help it, I'm X.
Why? You should be most aware that, if this is the OP's problem and not something simpler like diet and lack of bedrest combined with poor social skills, depression and mental conditions drive away friends and family simply because it often involves the patient having unacceptable behavior. We can't just baby him and tolerate poor behavior when it detracts from everybody else's conditions. This isn't Elementary School, where we are forced to "play nice" (viz. tolerate unduly) with disruptive people. Part of being an adult is fixing your own problems, either by yourself or by finding help.
Dude, as you may be aware I made no comment about his behaviour and D&D.
My only point was that he should seek advice from a mental health professional.
Is this babying?
Or sound advice?
And a mental health person, you should realize, that's seldom the case.
So, ruling out any actual mental/medical issues, then what are we left with? It's the way he is acting. And that's his own doing.
I'm addressing that reality, because there is no way to know if the other reality has any basis for fact. It could also be an attempt to get some sort of diagnosis so that he can go back and say, you shouldn't pick on me for how I act, I can't help it, I'm X.
Spoken like a true know nothing know it all. You are not addressing reality you are making massive assumptions.
In my experience as cognitive behavioural therapist people almost always tell it how it is (unless they are junkies).
To assume there is no psychological foundation to the symptoms described by the OP is a massive assumption.
The guy could be after sympathy; it could be teen aged angst; but giving a stranger some undeserved sympathy is a small price to pay for possibly heading off a bout of depression before it takes hold.
The solution was to bring a few energy drinks. Kept us alert enough -- a single low-carb monster was just enough to keep the ol' melon off the table for a few hours, and then when the game was over we could just crash and catch some Z's.
And my sympathies, I've been guilty of exploding at someone who nudges the battle mat. One of those unwritten rules of being a DM -- "Smite those who toucheth thy carefully prepared battlemats." Just happens, don't let it get to you.
By the way, we now use dry erase markers instead of linkin logs.
No one here, not even you can diagnosis if he really has a problem. Even I have said, you should go see someone. That's the ONLY advice he should accept. Any other advice is babying him.
If you are in the mental health profession, you should have picked up how much justification for his behavior he is asking for. Also, you are assuming EVERYTHING he says, is true. And a mental health person, you should realize, that's seldom the case. So, you let him be the victim, and everyone else is abusing him. There is no way any of it could be his fault.
So, ruling out any actual mental/medical issues, then what are we left with? It's the way he is acting. And that's his own doing.
I'm addressing that reality, because there is no way to know if the other reality has any basis for fact. It could also be an attempt to get some sort of diagnosis so that he can go back and say, you shouldn't pick on me for how I act, I can't help it, I'm X.
Bro... seriously... my advice to him was to *see a doctor*. In what way did I give the impression that I was in the medical health profession? All I said was it *could* be a chemical imbalance.
Would I be seen as trying to pawn myself off as an expert architect if I said: "You should get someone to look at that hole in your roof."
I don't know what you're trying to do, or trying to start here, but you're barking up the wrong tree.
Dude, as you may be aware I made no comment about his behaviour and D&D.
My only point was that he should seek advice from a mental health professional.
Is this babying?
Or sound advice?
No, that's sound advice, so long as it stays there.
But if it's not that, then his behavior is his own making, and the results are his fault.
I'm going with the latter, based on how he presented everything. To me it sounds more like wanting a pity party then someone with serious issues.
Bro... seriously... my advice to him was to *see a doctor*. In what way did I give the impression that I was in the medical health profession? All I said was it *could* be a chemical imbalance.
Would I be seen as trying to pawn myself off as an expert architect if I said: "You should get someone to look at that hole in your roof."
I don't know what you're trying to do, or trying to start here, but you're barking up the wrong tree.
Um, you started it. My first post was to him. Not you, not anyone else. You responded directly to me, with the WoW stuff.
But I mixed you up with the person who said he was a mental health professional, for that, I apologize, I read both posts in a row, responded, and then erased it.
I totally agree with everyone, seek professional advice, not here on the forums to see if you really have a mental/medical issue.
I just think he doesn't and is looking for pity. Based on his words.
Spoken like a true know nothing know it all. You are not addressing reality you are making massive assumptions.
In my experience as cognitive behavioural therapist people almost always tell it how it is (unless they are junkies).
To assume there is no psychological foundation to the symptoms described by the OP is a massive assumption.
The guy could be after sympathy; it could be teen aged angst; but giving a stranger some undeserved sympathy is a small price to pay for possibly heading off a bout of depression before it takes hold.
HA HA HA!~ Really?
Also, I would recommend you not eat a lot of sugar, and you should exercise. Those two things WILL make you more energetic, and happier, as well as less hyper.
Also, I think I should add, having extended arguments is better saved for PMs. Also, negative comments aren't appreciated, at all, in any way, and if you must insist on voicing them, do so in the most sympathetic way you can. The OP is already having a hard enough time with his group situation, so you don't need to make it any worse. We're supposed to be a kind, caring community, with mutual respect for one another.
Statements like: 'Grow up, you're being a baby' are completely unnecessary, and don't help anyone, at least not someone in this situation.
Um, you started it. My first post was to him. Not you, not anyone else. You responded directly to me, with the WoW stuff.
But I mixed you up with the person who said he was a mental health professional, for that, I apologize, I read both posts in a row, responded, and then erased it.
I totally agree with everyone, seek professional advice, not here on the forums to see if you really have a mental/medical issue.
I just think he doesn't and is looking for pity. Based on his words.
All right, that's fair. I shouldn't have started in on ya with the WoW joke.
I feel like I've walked a bit in this kid's shoes about ten years ago. I was a bit immature for my age, and was hooked on Everquest, playing it when the folks went to bed until 3-4 on a school night, so I got like 2-3 hours sleep and things I did reflected that. I was falling asleep in class, having my relationships with others suffer and all that good jazz.
Makes me a bit more sympathetic, even if it was a case where I was my own worst enemy back in the day.
HA HA HA!~ Really?
I think it is "discussions" of this nature that gets threads locked out.
Control yourselves.
I'm still skeptical that my being tired is depression, but maybe that's me being proud. I'll definitely spend time thinking about it.
The exercise thing really made me think, though. I've been busy recently, so I haven't been exercising (not that I'm making excuses). I wouldn't be surprised if that was at least a large part of it.
I'm sure this has already been addressed, but that you are so negative is surely getting on people's nerves. If someone else had a personal issue and you felt it was being taken out on you, how would feel? One might choose to possibly want that person gone or to lash out at them.
Sorry for being crude, but when I go to spend a whole day gaming it is to have fun, not to be someone's emotional tampon. I would expect my friends to leave their issues at the door, keep them to themselves, work them out, or refrain from letting them come down on me. If you can keep your sessions drama-free, one of them might even be willing to talk to you or just listen outside of the game.
I'm sorry if that was harsh. You're probably not as bad in real life as your post makes you sound, but thats the limit of the internet, right?
Take it one step at a time.Do you get enough sleep? Try naps if they help.
I'm sure this has already been addressed, but that you are so negative is surely getting on people's nerves. If someone else had a personal issue and you felt it was being taken out on you, how would feel? One might choose to possibly want that person gone or to lash out at them.
Sorry for being crude, but when I go to spend a whole day gaming it is to have fun, not to be someone's emotional tampon. I would expect my friends to leave their issues at the door, keep them to themselves, work them out, or refrain from letting them come down on me. If you can keep your sessions drama-free, one of them might even be willing to talk to you or just listen outside of the game.
I'm sorry if that was harsh. You're probably not as bad in real life as your post makes you sound, but thats the limit of the internet, right?
I think sleep, or a lack thereof, is definitely part of the issue: I didn't really realize how much an effect it could have though. Part of the problem with naps is that I find it hard to get going again afterwards. Maybe I'll combine a nap with exercise, see if that gets me going.
If you're under 20, go for 9 hours of sleep. It's extreme but it really helps. Eight works after that.
Try to go to sleep and wake up the same time (to get into a routine).
Avoid energy drinks and caffeine like the plague.
Here is a good rule of thumb for checking if you are depressed: are you unable to experience pleasure? If you take no pleasure at all from life you could well become depressed.
Hi--
I guess I should talk a little bit more about my habits: I'm perpetually tired, which probably adds to my negativity, and sometimes like to lay my head on the table when it's not my turn: I listen to what's going on, but sometimes keeping my head up feels like a huge drain on my energy (not kidding).
You may be suffering of «sleep apnea». This condition prevents people from reaching deep states of sleep so you never feel rejuvenated in the morning. I have a friend who had similar behavior to you (negativity and all). He recently discovered he had this condition. There is a treatment. He now feels much better. You should consult your physician.
Good luck.
Exercise.
This is the most important thing you can do to affect your energy. He already said that he hasn't been doing it. This is the first thing he should try before getting all freaked out about other things.
Seriously people, instead of going straight to sleep disorders, mental disorders, etc. let's tackle the most probable items first.
Exercise.
This is the most important thing you can do to affect your energy. He already said that he hasn't been doing it. This is the first thing he should try before getting all freaked out about other things.
Completely agree.
We are like car batteries; if we are left too long doing nothing our charge drops. If we are driven every day they charge stays topped up.
Completely agree.
We are like car batteries; if we are left too long doing nothing our charge drops. If we are driven every day they charge stays topped up.
Uh, wrong. Exercise is not the answer. You and others are suggesting this person take up exercise to cure his being tired. What exactly do you mean by exercise? Walking? Cardio? Weight lifting?
It's all very well to say, you need exercise and leave it at that. It doesn't explain what kind of exercise that person should be doing? Everyone needs an exercise routine that they can stick too, that won't make an existing problem worse. Or even worse, the wrong kind of exercise could cause serious harm.
I work out, I bike, and have a nutrition program. But what I do would NOT be good for just anyone.
Good god, you people, stop tossing out things like diet, sleep apnea, or exercise.
Go see a doctor and a therapist. Follow up with what they tell you. If you feel they didn't take you serious, get a second opinion. Because anyone in a health profession would tell you to consult a physician before undertaking anything like a change in diet or exercise, to make sure your body can handle it. And help monitor your progress.
Don't try and follow any other advice then going to a professional. Several if you feel you need to.
Uh, wrong. Exercise is not the answer. You and others are suggesting this person take up exercise to cure his being tired. What exactly do you mean by exercise? Walking? Cardio? Weight lifting?
It's all very well to say, you need exercise and leave it at that. It doesn't explain what kind of exercise that person should be doing? Everyone needs an exercise routine that they can stick too, that won't make an existing problem worse. Or even worse, the wrong kind of exercise could cause serious harm.
I work out, I bike, and have a nutrition program. But what I do would NOT be good for just anyone.
Good god, you people, stop tossing out things like diet, sleep apnea, or exercise.
Go see a doctor and a therapist. Follow up with what they tell you. If you feel they didn't take you serious, get a second opinion. Because anyone in a health profession would tell you to consult a physician before undertaking anything like a change in diet or exercise, to make sure your body can handle it. And help monitor your progress.
Don't try and follow any other advice then going to a professional. Several if you feel you need to.
Oh shut your mouth, Dane (I know Dane from a long time ago, so I'll say to him what I please :D).
It doesn't matter what KIND of exercise he's doing, as long as he's doing SOMETHING. It's not like I told him to go and make sure he does a hundred 300 lb bench presses.
It doesn't take a doctor to tell a person they should exercise. Even just a half hour of walking every day is better than nothing, and often goes a long way. Any doctor in the world will tell him the same thing. Start with light exercise, progress as your body feels ready, and don't push it.
Stop being difficult just for the sake of being difficult. Don't make me go back and quote you being a royal jerk in your first post and giving no constructive advice. Don't backtrack now, because you and I both know it's true.
Seeing a doctor is a good idea if this is something that can't be solved without doing so. You don't even know if the guy has medical insurance. Saying "don't exercise without seeing a doctor" is possibly the most absurd advice I've ever heard.
Stop trolling, Dane. ;)
Talk it out with them, ask what you can do to get them off your back. The problem may lay with you but if you talk with them and try and change a little and they are still tools find a new group.
Thanks for all the great responses. I don't think my tired-ness is a sickness or anything, but then I don't know what it is. I'll definitely start bringing some energy-full food, and try to get some sleep before too.
I've been trying to tone-down my talking, but it's stupidly hard. I keep 'forgetting', and then I go off on some tangent, related to the game or not, and I get some sort of sharp response.
The game isn't particularly tactics-based, since most of the players are completely new to the game. We do spend fairly large amounts of time trying to figure out why a room is glowing, or what some documents read, but not large chunks at a time. When I say 'fairly large amounts', I mean total: the world we're set in calls on a lot of that. With my Feylock, I deal a lot of damage, and most of our combat is based off of that: getting the dragon down before he can practically one-shot another one of us. I think next time my teleportation comes up, I'll say something like, "Look: I deal a lot of damage, and my teleportation is not detrimental to the group."
I guess I'll follow all of everyone's great advice and see what happens next meeting: if it's still an issue, maybe I'm not trying hard enough, or maybe it is the group afterall. I'd hate for that to be the case though: they're nice people otherwise, and I think it's the only group in the area with people close to my age.
I think that the problems you are having with this group... you would have in any other social situation if you did the same things.
You seem to have some self-awareness.
We had a guy in my group who was very clumsy, would go on tangents about video games, made a lot of "funny" comments that weren't funny, and he'd find any amount of power game abuse he could min-max into his PC.
We all kind of liked him but he brought a negativity to the group and table and he did get picked on a lot.
That "picking" is an attempt to use negative reenforcement to get a person to stop doing things that are negative. Hopefully, if you had a great session, they'd compliment you and give you a chance to shed your reputation.
The first thing that I think you need to do is to realize that people CAN change. They do it all the time. It can take 3-4 months to develop new habits.
Start getting more sleep.
Start exercising more.
Start eating better.
If that doesn't fix it, see a doctor.
Start looking at each day for little good things... like, fresh air or a fun interaction or a great movie or something else that made you laugh.
Once you get yourself on the right track, be encouraged that you're on the right track and you're GOING to fix this stuff, whether anyone else cares or not.
At that point, people will slowly begin to look at you and treat you differently.
You'll notice strangers treating you better than usual at this point, and it'll take people that know you a little longer to come around.
Also try to have empathy for how your actions at the table make the other's feel.
The DM thinks you are bored with his session.
The other players think you are inconsiderate, and impeding on their ability to enjoy the roleplay and shared social interaction.
You're demonstrating through carelessness that you don't really "care" that much, and even in this post, you imply that you should be "cut some slack" on these issues.
Make yourself a written checklist of things you'd like to do better, and take it with you to the session and look at it every five minutes.
Make this a project where you are going to "level up your charisma based skills".
At some point, share with the group, "I know I've been inconsiderate. I'm trying to do better. It's not easy for me to change these habits but I don't want to take away from everyone else's fun."
Then just leave it go at that.
Do all these right things and then have confidence that you're doing the right things.
This will change your entire life for the better so it's worth doing.
Oh shut your mouth, Dane (I know Dane from a long time ago, so I'll say to him what I please :D).
It doesn't matter what KIND of exercise he's doing, as long as he's doing SOMETHING. It's not like I told him to go and make sure he does a hundred 300 lb bench presses.
It doesn't take a doctor to tell a person they should exercise. Even just a half hour of walking every day is better than nothing, and often goes a long way. Any doctor in the world will tell him the same thing. Start with light exercise, progress as your body feels ready, and don't push it.
Stop being difficult just for the sake of being difficult. Don't make me go back and quote you being a royal jerk in your first post and giving no constructive advice. Don't backtrack now, because you and I both know it's true.
Seeing a doctor is a good idea if this is something that can't be solved without doing so. You don't even know if the guy has medical insurance. Saying "don't exercise without seeing a doctor" is possibly the most absurd advice I've ever heard.
Stop trolling, Dane. ;)
You said this better than I would have. I think a doctor would be bewildered if you told him that you thought you should seek his advice before getting some basic exercise like walking or biking (without an obvious issue like "it hurts when I do").
If I take a good nap for about 30 minutes I am capable of much greater concentration for an hour or two afterwards. Its probably because my brain has slowed down during rest. I feel great after naps.
Naps aren't bad. If you're letting yourself get into a deep sleep then of course you're tired afterwards. I've wakened after a couple of hours and hours I can't barely keep my eyes open for an hour.
If I take a good nap for about 30 minutes I am capable of much greater concentration for an hour or two afterwards. Its probably because my brain has slowed down during rest. I feel great after naps.
This is true for me too, but the problem is that I do fall into a deep sleep, and sleep for an hour or more. I've tried setting an alarm, but I think I need a new alarm clock or something...
What really bugs me is my partner can nap at any time and still sleep fine in the night time.
Had a meeting yesterday, and it went really well. I took everyone's advice, and got a lot of sleep. Took a shower, and then biked there so that I wouldn't be half-asleep when I got there. Ate a good breakfast, brought some food with me.
Thanks again for all the help/advice. I really appreciate it
.The most important part of this is to open about what you're trying to do with your group. Suddenly changing on people creates stress, and people react to change in different ways. Since you've already explained what you know is wrong to them, tell them why you're doing the following.
Turn your failings into a regular part of the character.
They know you're trying to fix, but if the group directs all the blame at the character instead of you, you can join in the insults, without being the focus. (you NEED a miniature for this one; provides a visual aid)
Your character is the world's Butt-Monkey!
The world hates him, and he hates the world. It justifies negative feelings, and gives the party the narrative ability to do non-mechanical damage to the character. (non-mechanical means he doesn't lose hit points)
For a sample, check this guy:
Rincewind, from Terry Pratchett's Discworld. He doesn't just want to be left alone, he actually wants his life to be boring. But due partly to being the pawn of Luck, and partly to his own self defeating cowardice, he always end up in the middle of some gigantic disaster surrounded by people who want him dead.
Another tool; that soda can you just finished drinking? Don't ignore it. When you feel the urge to put your head down, use the can as a head-stand. that way you can keep your eyes on the table/group, and get that "rest" your body urges. Since the jaw is needed to move, it's difficult to talk like that.
"pair up" with one guy, and have him tell "your character"; Stop babbling, we need to focus on X.
Puts the blame on the character, and reminds you to restrain your tangents.
Tools, props, whatever you want to call them, find something to use as a tool and use that to focus your ideas of change.
I personally use hats as a focus to remember NPC behavior/accents/memories.