One of these party members is the human monk who comes from the monastery of blandness. The only roleplaying he does is saying he worships St. Cuthbert so he can get away with just murderring in the name of the law.
I am on the defensive end as it is blatantly obvious he's going to try to kill my character.
Here's where I need help - I need to stop him, and I'm pretty much doomed to do it alone. Before you feel pity, this is the same guy you all know; his character is always better than yours (just ask him, he'll tell you), he thinks yelling equates having personality, and roleplays backwards (as in, instead of "what would my character do", he thinks "my character is doing this, how do I justify it?")
So, I need to serve him a piping got slice of humble pie. But, I'm a bit at a loss. He's a tattooed monk, so his saves are trhough the roof, so my poisons are useless. If I use my wand of grease, he'll most likely make it. His speed is higher than mine, he can do more damage, has more AC, and would murder my character in cold blood.
Now, it's hard to prove a point without being on the positive end of the HP spectrum - how can my halfling rogue take this guy on and win?
That is personally what I would do if I was a thief type character. Force him to fight in those caltrops as well.
Then grease the floor where the caltrops are.
Followed up by the poisons.
Sure, he might make several of these saves, and/or avoid the caltrops, but quickly he won't be so lucky.
The next tricks I would do, Find ways to remove his AC.
My rogues have accomplished this by picking up weapons such as daggers of impaling and using various sorts of skill tricks to cause the enemy to become flatfooted.
Find a ray of frost and sneak attack him with it. As long as you have to roll to hit, you can sneak attack with the spell.
Look up what you can in compleate scoundrel and dungeonscape. Great things for a skill **** rogue. (As That is what I used to play until the campain went down when we killed the dragon.)
I've been trying to think of methods to take him out, but it's not going well. Aside efrom the fact that poisons are expensive, I don't have poison use and even then his fortitude save is above 15. I'd sneak attack him but getting him flat footed means I'd either have to feint as a standard action and allow him to flurry, or I'd have to risk him succeeding on a balance check in a greasy area, and I'm sure he has balance ranks.
Unfortunately, he's the kind of guy who believes that as a PC he's automatically immune to Bluff and thus nobody can make him roleplay, so he'd know ANYTHING I'd try to set up against him.
Are there any weaknesses monks have in combat? I can't seem to find any expoitable way to deal with him, and I'm supposed to be the resourceful one.
I generally frown on PvP, but ...
Get yourself some way to become invisible (preferably Greater Invisibility). You'll get to Sneak Attack him that way. Or, hell, if he's being that big a jerk about all this, just slit his throat in his sleep. Nobody said you had to fight fair.
Oh, I know what I COULD do, but I'm going to have to roleplay this as an honest players. And his betrayal will obviously come in the form of "I attack". My character will only have a little bit of forewarning, and once this happens it's going to be straight combat.
Do you, as yet, have any reason as to why he's doing it? Seriously, this sounds like an out-of-game problem and should probably be dealt with out-of-game. What's the DM doing during all this? Have you talked to him about it?
The last and final thing you could do, is make the World End's pack.
What this is, is a backpack filled with every alchemist potion, poison, caltrop and other dangerous thing all worked together into a single explosive device.
Its a very dangerous thing to carry.. but one that could work for you.
OH!
If you are roleplaying this as an honest player, just assume he is also RPing honestly. Send pidgeons to Master Sensei about how the student isn't following the true teaching of St. whatever itwas again. Make sure to really talk with the DM about this, that at the exact moment of betrayal, Master Sensei will suddenly appear and beat the snot out of him. :D
Oh, I know what I COULD do, but I'm going to have to roleplay this as an honest players. And his betrayal will obviously come in the form of "I attack". My character will only have a little bit of forewarning, and once this happens it's going to be straight combat.
Do you, as yet, have any reason as to why he's doing it? Seriously, this sounds like an out-of-game problem and should probably be dealt with out-of-game. What's the DM doing during all this? Have you talked to him about it?
I know. Its kinda.. like trying to play say.. mortal kombat but not using any special move, blocking or a number of other things because "its not fair" while the opponent is using game shark to be invincible.
if he murders your CG rogue for no other reason than your chaotic or any other reason that is NOT validated by the DEity he serves( which would be St. Cuthbert in his case), than he has a problem.
a huge issue you can use this against him, first blow unjustifiable hit, he is an EX-MONK.
he might already suffer for this, if his character is already planning on betraying or killing someone.
roleplaying works both ways, but he has rules that he has to follow as you dont.
edited that out.
And nfortunately with his devotion to the law he will find a reason to murder us without any repercussions, and because of that he'd not lose any powers.
I'd send a letter to Mr. Sensei but this master roleplayer has NO characters in his backstory - he lived up in a mountainous monastery where he learned about all magic items and nearby rumors and developed a fear of the Deck of Many Things (yah, THAT'S his big roleplaying thing) because high up in the mountains is where all sorts of information travels to!
But yeah, there is no sensei. There's just Jimmy Generic, the Lawyerful Neutral monk of St. Getsoutofhavingtoroleplay.
Everyone tells me to get all greasy, but he's a monk, balance is a class skill that he has ranks in. One flurry and I'm dead, I need a pinch hit at this time!
And nfortunately with his devotion to the law he will find a reason to murder us without any repercussions, and because of that he'd not lose any powers.
He wouldn't anyway, he's a monk not a cleric.
Sorry, Ring of Blinkin is waaaay outta price range right now. Maybe if I could find an affordable magic item to blow like an affordable wand or scroll, but until then I'm going to have to operate on a few thousand gp.
have your character Pray to St. Cuthbert for guidance in the matter.
Or have said rogue just up and leave the group for a Paladin/rogue and shoot for Shadowbane Inquisitor.
well here is the deal, St. Cuthbert is LN, and that means; he is lawful, and frowns on criminal acts.
if he murders your CG rogue for no other reason than your chaotic or any other reason that is NOT validated by the DEity he serves( which would be St. Cuthbert in his case), than he has a problem.
a huge issue you can use this against him, first blow unjustifiable hit, he is an EX-MONK.
he might already suffer for this, if his character is already planning on betraying or killing someone.
roleplaying works both ways, but he has rules that he has to follow as you dont.
edit: forgot to mention that all his nice monk abilities go away....
No they do not. Ex-monks keep their abilities but cannot take more levels in the class.
And him killing me isn't bad for him; remember, monks just have to be lawful and worship of a deity is allowed to have one step of alignment difference (except Favored Souls).
Hmm...the problem with this is that I need a quick way to MAKE him step on a caltrop or greased area...is there anything that anyone can suggest along those lines?
If you're playing a Thief (Dex/Cha) , you shouldn't use poison;
poison use is for ninjas (Dex/Con);
a monk (Dex/Wis) would'nt kill you unless he also is Paladin (Str/Cha) and Psionicist (Con/Int) and you violate the Law;
now a monk trained by ninjas (that some folks call Ex-Monk) would believe he is Paladin / Ninja / ArchMage (Int/Wis);
ninjas (also called assassins) have strong poison resistance;
thieves are good hagglers: try to offer him your wand of grease so he can train his balance to improve it, he shall reward you
Sorry, Ring of Blinkin is waaaay outta price range right now. Maybe if I could find an affordable magic item to blow like an affordable wand or scroll, but until then I'm going to have to operate on a few thousand gp.
It shouldn't take more then two scrolls of blink then
If you're playing a Thief (Dex/Cha) , you shouldn't use poison;
poison use is for ninjas (Dex/Con);
a monk (Dex/Wis) would'nt kill you unless he also is Paladin (Str/Cha) and Psionicist (Con/Int) and you violate the Law;
now a monk trained by ninjas (that some folks call Ex-Monk) would believe he is Paladin / Ninja / ArchMage (Int/Wis);
ninjas (also called assassins) have strong poison resistance;
thieves are good hagglers: try to offer him your wand of grease so he can train his balance to improve it, he shall reward you
...Listing random stats in no way makes an argument for why theives shouldn't use poison...that's kinda their thing (Str/Con)
But Rogues are.
And no. It isn't a rogue thing really to use poison. You can, but its not advised. Why? Because of a little ability called poison use that Rogues don't have. Assassins and Ninjas do however.
Thieves arn't existant in 3.5....
I take it no-one ever steals anything in 3.5? Now that's a weird edition.
And nfortunately with his devotion to the law he will find a reason to murder us without any repercussions, and because of that he'd not lose any powers.
He wouldn't anyway, he's a monk not a cleric.
That I am going to have to say something about.
Monks in 3.5 lose all their power if they divert from a Lawful alignment. Killing somebody at a random time due to thinking that they're going to do something chaotic isn't lawful [in fact, killing somebody at all if there's any other way could be considered to not be lawful.
Killing somebody for doing something unlawful isn't lawful. Turning them in to somebody who has the authority to is lawful. No matter how the character justifies it to himself, he will lose the power for killing you unless you do everything in your power to make it so he can't restrain you/knock you out in some way....
Heck even attacking you outright for doing something unlawful would be skirting on the edge. Best solution I can see is have a few ACTUAL law enforcers nearby so that when he attacks you for no reason they attack and imprison him for A UNLAWFUL ACT.
Or you could just not steal anything while he is near you. Be the picture of a lawful person, and then sneak off during down time and do what you need to do. Without meta gaming there is no way that he can know that you've stolen something [unless he is going to stalk you or pay out his butt for a wizard to use scrying on you.]
If he does kill you I recommend the next one you roll up is a wizard. If a nice play high above him that is still within range of him, and then kill him with your only slightly obvious specifically purposed spells for the location, then proceed to justify it by the fact that you're lawful good and you saw him killing the rogue as part of your back story.
P.S. I also think talking to rest of the party OOC and IC [if you've got any reason IC to suspect this]
would be a good Idea. I doubt the rest of the party is going to stand by and let him kill you [you being more useful then him, purely on the fact that monks, I'm sad to say, were nothing but big bags of defenses and really didn't have a use other then sit there and get attacked.
If you're playing a Thief (Dex/Cha) , you shouldn't use poison;
poison use is for ninjas (Dex/Con);
a monk (Dex/Wis) would'nt kill you unless he also is Paladin (Str/Cha) and Psionicist (Con/Int) and you violate the Law;
now a monk trained by ninjas (that some folks call Ex-Monk) would believe he is Paladin / Ninja / ArchMage (Int/Wis);
ninjas (also called assassins) have strong poison resistance;
thieves are good hagglers: try to offer him your wand of grease so he can train his balance to improve it, he shall reward you
...Listing random stats in no way makes an argument for why theives shouldn't use poison...that's kinda their thing (Str/Con)
WTF? Barbarians (Str/Con)
Thieves arn't existant in 3.5....
I take it no-one ever steals anything in 3.5? Now that's a weird edition.
No.
The thief class.
Course you knew that already, you where just trying to be "Oh look at me! I can be funny!"
planning to betray or kill someone is still chaotic.
Umm...Derkartographer, I'm playing a rogue...
And him killing me isn't bad for him; remember, monks just have to be lawful and worship of a deity is allowed to have one step of alignment difference (except Favored Souls).
Hmm...the problem with this is that I need a quick way to MAKE him step on a caltrop or greased area...is there anything that anyone can suggest along those lines?
Just because you're a rogue doesn't mean that killing you is considered "good." There's lots of good advice on this thread and I suggest you take it to heart.
Mainly this situation seems to call for a talk with the DM and if that doesn't work, a group meeting OOC to hash out the problem. It sounds like you're not the only player having a problem with this.
If the player won't change and the DM won't rein him in, then your options:
1) Buck up and take it, roll a new character and see if he lets that one live.
2) Find a new gaming group.
3) Talk to the other players who are having problems with this guy, get someone to volunteer to DM and start a new gaming group together.
The fact that the DM seems to be playing favorites could point to a problem with your DM. HOWEVER it might just be that you aren't communicating with your DM about the trouble, so he isn't really paying attention to the situation, or thinks you're having fun.
Communicate, communicate, communicate.
Second, Poison Use isn't a rogue ability. But, the only thing poison use does is ignore the 5% chance to poison yourself WHEN APPLYING POISON TO A WEAPON. I caps that because that means inhaled or ingested poisons are fine. And besides, I'd risk the 1 in 20 poison myself chance if it meant I could poison him, but the only poison that would have a chance is DC 26 Dragon Bile, which means he'd have to save on a ten or eleven. And crafted, that's 250 gp a dose. Still, that's why I leave that as a last ditch effort.
It's not something that's some big problem everyone is making a big deal about - characters can and will conflict, and a monk and a rogue are as opposite as you can get. Truth be told, he has reason to dislike my character (not gonna explain everything that's happened in game) but it's blatant that he will try to kill the party members one by one; I'm putting myself in harm's way for the good of the group.
What I wanna know is what would cripple his monk abilities? I can't make him do something unlawful, I mean what can you do, put a child in front of him and hope he kills it?
I also need to defeat him to force a good amount of humility down his throat; he's the kind of character that takes one hitpoint of damage and demands healing, claims he does an unsurpassable amount of damage but hits on a semi-frequent basis, claims he can last the longest in combat despite repeatedly dropping in battle, and claims to be able to beat ANYONE's skills (and I mean he tries to pit that against my rogue).
Case in point: I pointed out that if my character did something unlawful and was actually clumsy enough to leave some sort of evidence behind, he could easily bluff his way out of the situation. I has a Bluff modifier of 12. His monk's sense motive modifier is 5 - that's under half of my check. His argument in his mind is that if he COULD do it (rolling 8 higher than me) then he WOULD because...he's him.
That's the same arrogant player everyone else lets die. He should have died when the Frost Worm exploded but our Druid sacrificed herself to save him (despite the fact that he is intent on slaying said newbie druid after he gets past his one obstacle; me).
This is more of a heroic fight against the man, not some player quarrel. And no, talking to someone cannot solve everything. The DM's just letting things play out as they will, he's not playing favorites.
First off, nothing is unlawful about killing, especially since St. Cuthbert says you have to be punished, not forgiven (yeah, couldn't go for Pelor, had to be St. Poleupmybum).
Technically, according to DnD descriptions, that means that St. Cuthbert is not a good deity. Take a look at BoED sometime.
Regardless, killing you? Evil act. If evil alignments are barred from your campaign, the DM could threaten to knock his alignment to evil and thus kick him out of the party. Besides, what's he killing you for? The precepts of law involve notions of just punishment, which means he can't kill you for, say, being a thief, and say it's within his alignment. He wants that, he'll have to accept alignment drift and not get anymore levels in monk or monk PrCs.
No.
The thief class.
Course you knew that already, you where just trying to be "Oh look at me! I can be funny!"
Well yes, some humor was purposefully injected, but I was mostly trying to point out that just because there's no class for it, doesn't mean people can't do it.
Also, your spelling is hilarious when combined with your self-important attitude. :P
The deity is a fairly old one, from what I've read he was one of the first two deities created just for D&D (He and Pholtus), as previously players had chosen a historical deity and worshipped that.
His doctrine has suffered a bit, as apparently he was kind of a tongue-in-cheek "joke" god created by Gygax - he created Pholtus, whose followers believe is the only true god, and St. Cuthbert, whose follower sternly bludgeoned all non-believers, both at the same time.
For whatever reason, St. Cuthbert has stuck around, and attempts to shoehorn this initially silly deity into the various editions and their alignment changes has, I think understandably, created some dissonance with the alignment systems.
I'm not aware of anything saying St. Cuthbert forbids forgiveness - but his religion *is* more about punishment than helping. I'm sure a sinner or heretic would be reluctantly welcomed back, once they "atoned" properly.
Last I heard, before they stopped using Greyhawk as the Living RPGA setting, they had moved St. Cuthbert to "Lawful Good" alignment. *shrug*
true smite...... full smite or some such.
basically it smites you regardless of alignment.
your a rogue, see about getting into holy liberator or something assuming it is a 3.5 game.
take said feat.
as for nabing his monk abiltiies. you cant, outside of besting your throws.
things that can up your throws will help against them.
No.
The thief class.
Course you knew that already, you where just trying to be "Oh look at me! I can be funny!"
Well yes, some humor was purposefully injected, but I was mostly trying to point out that just because there's no class for it, doesn't mean people can't do it.
Also, your spelling is hilarious when combined with your self-important attitude. :P
Of course I'm impotent! I'm the captian after all!
(Dex/Int) Now if you expect that he will not play by the rules and will attack you anyway, then why should you? Slit his throat in his sleep and say something like "I'm a rogue and I'm chaotic so I don't have honor or respect the law, and even though I'm good, you posed a serious and direct threat to me and my friends that I could not abide." Or just say "I guess my alignment changes." If he can change stuff after the fact, then so can you.
(Wis/Cha) Off-topic: (Dex/Wis) See I can do this too (Str/Cha). Now you must all listen to me because this somehow lends credibility and makes you believe I have a remotely coherent or rational thought process (Int/Con). But don't worry, the monk (Str/Dex) won't kill you unless he is a paladin (Str/Cha) and a psionicist (Int/Wis). Unless he was raised by ninjas (Dex/Int), in which case he thinks he's a paladin (Glg/Lol). And if you break the law, he will become a psionicist (Igh/Whe). But don't use poison if you are a thief (343/098) unless you also were raised by ninjas (Ohs/Nos) which makes you a barbarian (Crom/Rofl).
I can't just slit his throat, my character is chaotic and thus far has only done a lot of nonlethal damage (saps and truncheons rock), but his character heavily only believes in lawful. And if I just slit his throat, I've got a dead body, a loss of good align,ment, a lack of roleplaying, and I haven't proven a point on anything.
I'm looking to use cunning and wit to beat his roleplay-less character, not just playing some MMO with an exp loss which requires grindingg on the dragons to restore.
Again; in character, we've been a little less lawful than normal, but it was break a pirate outta prison or let the Arcan Archer lose his arm (And then have to take EWP Footbow (which exists - Races of the Wild)).
I can't just slit his throat, my character is chaotic and thus far has only done a lot of nonlethal damage (saps and truncheons rock), but his character heavily only believes in lawful. And if I just slit his throat, I've got a dead body, a loss of good align,ment, a lack of roleplaying, and I haven't proven a point on anything.
I'm looking to use cunning and wit to beat his roleplay-less character, not just playing some MMO with an exp loss which requires grindingg on the dragons to restore.
Wait, his character Sheet is chaotic good, but he RPs the belief in the law? Doesn't that make him Neutral Good?
As a Chaotic Good character, I'd say do a bunch of stealth-related rolls, sneak up to him, then make a coup de grace Sneak Attack at him, before running away to bait him to a room full of traps and what not, assuming he's tough enough to take it.
Frankly, that guy in-game is more of an ***hole than anything, but since he's a threat to everyone in the party, as a Chaotic Good Character I'd take him out myself... but of course given his supposed-awesomeness and your lack of decisiveness in taking him out in his sleep -- even though he's supposed to be medidating off his sleep or something like that -- might as well just have him heavily damaged at first, then pull him into a room filled with traps and stuff, all the while throwing caltrops, knives and darts at him.
Or maybe just look at his lowest defense, and use it to your utmost advantage.
Again; in character, we've been a little less lawful than normal, but it was break a pirate outta prison or let the Arcan Archer lose his arm (And then have to take EWP Footbow (which exists - Races of the Wild)).
I can't just slit his throat, my character is chaotic and thus far has only done a lot of nonlethal damage (saps and truncheons rock), but his character heavily only believes in lawful. And if I just slit his throat, I've got a dead body, a loss of good align,ment, a lack of roleplaying, and I haven't proven a point on anything.
I'm looking to use cunning and wit to beat his roleplay-less character, not just playing some MMO with an exp loss which requires grindingg on the dragons to restore.Wait, his character Sheet is chaotic good, but he RPs the belief in the law? Doesn't that make him Neutral Good?
As a Chaotic Good character, I'd say do a bunch of stealth-related rolls, sneak up to him, then make a coup de grace Sneak Attack at him, before running away to bait him to a room full of traps and what not, assuming he's tough enough to take it.
Frankly, that guy in-game is more of an ***hole than anything, but since he's a threat to everyone in the party, as a Chaotic Good Character I'd take him out myself... but of course given his supposed-awesomeness and your lack of decisiveness in taking him out in his sleep -- even though he's supposed to be medidating off his sleep or something like that -- might as well just have him heavily damaged at first, then pull him into a room filled with traps and stuff, all the while throwing caltrops, knives and darts at him.
Or maybe just look at his lowest defense, and use it to your utmost advantage.
The Law-Chaos scale is not neccesarily to do with that, so much as beliefs - the Chaotic Good character is the paragon of freedom. This does not require, however, flouting the law just cause. Doing so is known as Chaotic Stupid.
The Chaotic, Lawful, and Neutral Good characters could all take this guy out themselves if they wanted to. But they'd have to justify it as a Good act - because that's the scale this would have bearing on.
Which is rather unlike the monk's desire to just randomly kill him. That's pure Chaotic Evil.
That said: Do this the scoundrel's way - run him up against another person who can knock him into the ground. Make it a higher level monk of his order or something. He's deviating, and badly, from the tenets of the order, or the order is poorly made.
And by metagame, take a pencil and alter his sheet.
Metagame.
And by metagame, take a pencil and alter his sheet.
No. Thats not good.
You forgot "When no one else is looking."
The only way to solve this in-game and be "honest" is by either getting the DM on board with teaching your lesson or getting your entire party to gang up on him. Otherwise, ACT LIKE A ROGUE DAMMIT! I secret murder or well-laid trap in the name of self-preservation is perfectly within your skill set.
That's probably not CG, but I like to see alignment shift and CN means never having to say you're sorry.
Oh, I know what I COULD do, but I'm going to have to roleplay this as an honest players. And his betrayal will obviously come in the form of "I attack". My character will only have a little bit of forewarning, and once this happens it's going to be straight combat.
Run away to fight another day... when you are more prepared. And hire some help to do it.
/me shrugs @'s
I secret murder or well-laid trap in the name of self-preservation is perfectly within your skill set.
But evidently not in his personality, which is more important.
Wow these strategies...suck. No, really.
I tried to explain the situation. Out of game I know he's going to try and kill the party. OUT OF GAME.
In game, we know his monk obeys the law, but I want to put things into this persective; in order to ensure that my character survives, he would slit the throat of a defenseless person who has NOT shown any violent tendencies? IN GAME, HE HAS SHOWN NO INTENT TO KILL.
Does that clear anything up? Acting like a rogue doesn't mean acting like a psychotic murderer. And chaotic doesn't mean you do whatever the heck you want, otherwise chaotic would only associate with evil.
Again with the poisons; this guy is a prestige classed monk. His fortitude save is at fifteen, and he's level eleven. I'm level ten and my AC is a whopping 19. He's got strength and HP (well, more than mine), I've got a few daggers so blunt it honestly doesn't matter which end I hold them with.
Okay, it seems like a lot of players can't take PvP because it's obviously conflict. Am I supposed to believe that in every group of adventurers fighting evil there's never conflict? Seriously, next time you have a fight with a friend (not in or out of game, in real life) stop and say "Hey, let's not do this, it'd break up the party and we probably won't get any experience anyway".
While he's a bad roleplayer, he's a good enough lawyer to understand how to slide by the 'justifiable' clause for killing people. Now, get that in your head because that IS the situation.
Back on track, I need to obviously take the reigns by myself instead of asking for tactics. First, I have NO trapmaking skills or alchemy skills; I have poisonmakingg, which is useless aggainst his fortitude. I have ranks in all of the rogue class skills (except three that wouldn't affect battle). I've got two skill tricks for sneak attack.
So, what are some good first level (or zero level) spells of ANY CLASS that could hold up in tenth level? I've got a wand of Grease and a wand of Benign Transposition, and I'm always looking fo rmore cheap 750 gp investments for the future.
Okay, it seems like a lot of players can't take PvP because it's obviously conflict. Am I supposed to believe that in every group of adventurers fighting evil there's never conflict? Seriously, next time you have a fight with a friend (not in or out of game, in real life) stop and say "Hey, let's not do this, it'd break up the party and we probably won't get any experience anyway".
I'll keep that in mind if I ever decide to kill a friend for no reason.
I said it before, I'll say it again, this is an out-of-game, player-motivated issue and needs to be dealt with by you and the rest of the group talking to the player. This is very obviously upsetting you, it's ruining your enjoyment of the game, and it is utterly unfair of this player to do so.
This story doesn't make sense. What's the other side of it?
This is really strange. This guy is planning to kill you and your entire party but YOU are on the defensive? Why do you even want to game with this guy? It's not like when you beat him he's suddenly going to stop being a d-bag. D-bags are born not made.
The only way to solve this in-game and be "honest" is by either getting the DM on board with teaching your lesson or getting your entire party to gang up on him. Otherwise, ACT LIKE A ROGUE DAMMIT! I secret murder or well-laid trap in the name of self-preservation is perfectly within your skill set.
You've hit the nail on the head as to what is annoying the heck out of me about this whole thread.
Folks write in and offer suggestions (which is what the OP wanted, right?) and the OP slams them down. Nope, can't do this, can't do that.
The first few times I heard it, I figured maybe he just is new to gaming and/or shy. But now he's thrown out HOW MANY? excellent suggestions? Of which the first and foremost is TALK TO YOUR DM!!!
Either this player is not being as badly treated as he postulates on this thread and is getting back his own when we the audience of this thread aren't looking, and the other PC isn't nearly as bad as made out OR
He's clueless (which his understanding of game mechanics, alignment and such seem to preclude) OR
He's just trying to be a victim and doesn't want any real control of his destiny, but wants us all to make poo-lip faces on his behalf.
(Any takers for another theory? I'm not finding one, so far.)
ACK!
Wow these strategies...suck. No, really.
I tried to explain the situation. Out of game I know he's going to try and kill the party. OUT OF GAME.
Dingalingaling. First problem here. Unless everyone in the group enjoys or is perfectly okay with this type of behaviour, it should not be happening. There should not be out of game events causing him to kill other PCs. This is a problem and needs to be adressed outright.
In game, we know his monk obeys the law, but I want to put things into this persective; in order to ensure that my character survives, he would slit the throat of a defenseless person who has NOT shown any violent tendencies? IN GAME, HE HAS SHOWN NO INTENT TO KILL.
If he has shown no intent to kill in game, then the snap decision to kill you would be all the more CHAOTIC. How unmonkly and unlawful is it to suddenly act completely differently to how you previously were acting. That type of behaviour, whether it be killing, or otherwise, is primarily chaotic. If he does that, he SHOULD become chaotic and be prevented from getting more monk levels, although since he's already in a Prestige class...
Regardless though, if you look at it from this perspective, your Rogue should do absolutely nothing to prepare for the attack in ANY way, that includes taking ANY in game advice from here, because he would have absolutely no clue what was coming, and would have no reason to prepare or do any of this.
Does that clear anything up? Acting like a rogue doesn't mean acting like a psychotic murderer. And chaotic doesn't mean you do whatever the heck you want, otherwise chaotic would only associate with evil.
Chaotic actually somewhat does. Not entirely, but somewhat. Chaotic Neutral pretty much is doing what you want. The PHB tends to refer to the Evil Alignments as not just doing whatever they want, but actively causing harm to others and spreading their chaos and evil. Of course, you're Chaotic GOOD, and I completely understand that you can't exactly kill him if he hasn't done anything at all, and you have no reason in game to suspect him. That indeed WOULD be an Evil act.
But to go back to the Lawful Point, the PHB repeatedly refers to Lawful characters being RELIABLE, that they follow certain tenets or ideals, whatever they may be, and they stick to them. They are NOT the sort of people to do things at random, or even do unpredictable things, killing people included.
Again with the poisons; this guy is a prestige classed monk. His fortitude save is at fifteen, and he's level eleven. I'm level ten and my AC is a whopping 19. He's got strength and HP (well, more than mine), I've got a few daggers so blunt it honestly doesn't matter which end I hold them with.
It really seems more and more to me, that whatever you do, ESPECIALLY considering the fact that you have very little in the ways of warning of this, there's pretty much NOTHING in character that you can do to give yourself a good or even even chance of winning.
Okay, it seems like a lot of players can't take PvP because it's obviously conflict. Am I supposed to believe that in every group of adventurers fighting evil there's never conflict? Seriously, next time you have a fight with a friend (not in or out of game, in real life) stop and say "Hey, let's not do this, it'd break up the party and we probably won't get any experience anyway".
PvP is fine as long as everyone is fine with it, and perhaps in certain circumstances otherwise, as long as there is an ACTUAL in character reason for one character to kill another. Yes, in many groups od adventurers fighting evil there probably would be conflict, but in yours, from what you have described, there is absolutely NONE. And by the way, the advice you gave at the end is actually pretty good advice, as long as it's worded differently.
While he's a bad roleplayer, he's a good enough lawyer to understand how to slide by the 'justifiable' clause for killing people. Now, get that in your head because that IS the situation.
Again, if his character acts inconsistently, especially to that degree, then no matter what justification he gives, he shouldn't be able to slide it. It's not about "justifying" killing really, it's about his character acting completely out of Alignment and character.
Back on track, I need to obviously take the reigns by myself instead of asking for tactics. First, I have NO trapmaking skills or alchemy skills; I have poisonmakingg, which is useless aggainst his fortitude. I have ranks in all of the rogue class skills (except three that wouldn't affect battle). I've got two skill tricks for sneak attack.
So, what are some good first level (or zero level) spells of ANY CLASS that could hold up in tenth level? I've got a wand of Grease and a wand of Benign Transposition, and I'm always looking fo rmore cheap 750 gp investments for the future.
As I said before, it really seems you don't have much chance, and any chance you do have would probably be through metagamey cheese, which you don't seem to like, considering that your character would have no reason to do any of it, not knowing that he is in any danger.
Basically I think the options are simple:
1) Talk to the DM.
2) If talking to the DM alone doesn't work and if this monk dude is really as much of a menace as the OP makes it out to be, then talk to the DM as a group.
NOTE: OOC tactics often need to be addressed with (gosh) OOC tactics.
3) If the other player IS a huge menace AND the DM doesn't find a healthy workaround:
a) run like hell and find a better gaming group
b) suck it up and continue to whine
c) get some gumption and try some of the tactics that have been mentioned in this thread. EVEN if they don't work they might at least draw some attention to the situation AND possibly force the other player to show his hand.
Chaotic Good? No problem. You don't try to kill him you merely try to incapacitate his character in some way. Example: Drug his butt (be a "nice guy" and buy a round of mead) and give him the D&D equiv of roofies. Then do as was done to an obnoxious PC in a game I DMed - tie him up, strip him naked and hang him out the inn window for passersby to gawk and laugh at. Didn't harm him one hp, but as played was rather embarassing, especially when NPCs brought up "weren't you the guy that...? "
Basic end point - if you don't have a good enough relationship with the DM to at least TALK about this kind of situation then your game is pretty much on the rocks anyway. Buy a couple coconut shells and "ride" over to the next good thing.
General Strategies:
This is something that you should get ASAP, as they will help with whatever Specific Strategy you choose to implement.
1) A Wand/Scroll of Crushing Despair. Yes, a -2 is not much, but it's on skill checks, saves, damage and attack rolls. Plus, it's cheap and it stacks with a Wand/Scroll of Curse of Ill Fortune (since the bonus is untyped). A -5 to attack rolls, saves and skill checks is nothing to sneeze at. The problem is that both of these can be negated with Will, which monks should have through the roof. I recommend higher-level spells like Bestow Curse beforehand (which is also permanent, for added insult!), which have higher DCs. Basically, you want to lower his saves as much as you can. Bestow Curse can be used to lower his Wisdom by 6, which will also lower his AC and Will save by 3.
2) A Scroll of Swift Expeditious Retreat (or its non-Swift version) and one of Instant Diversion. If a strategy fails, your first priority is survival so that you can live to try again.
3) If you can anticipate the attack, a Potion/Scroll of Nerveskitter will be invaluable to set up the following strategies.
4) A Wand of Impede (Yes, a Wand. You will need to spam it), coupled with a Scroll of Slow or Hold Person should take care of that pesky mobility.
5) You will need defence. Potion/Scroll of Mage Armour. If you can afford it, Greater Mage Armour is even better. A Potion/Scroll of Barkskin will help as well.
6) You will need to out-speed him. Get a potion/scroll of Haste.
7) Use your spare money to buy as many buffs as you can, à la Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Bear's Endurance, Snake's Swiftness, etc.
8) If any of your party members (like the Druid) can help you by casting any of these spells, then all the better. You will have a higher chance to succeed if you have the others on your side and actively helping you.
9) Enervation is ALWAYS good. Expensive, but good. The best part? It can be an excellent opener, since it allows no save.
10) Same goes for Invisibility/Greater Invisibility.
Specific Strategies:
Take your pick.
1) Trap Room. And no, I don't mean with actual mechanical traps. Find a room as featureless as possible. It must have walls. That's the only requirement. Get at least 1 Potion of Spider Climb or Levitate (if you don't possess a skill trick that duplicates it). Get that Wand of Grease and buy the following: a hand crossbow (two if you can dual-wield), a Scroll of Entangle, a Scroll/Potion of Camouflage and a Potion/Scroll of Displacement (or Blur). Get up in the air against a wall, and Entangle/Grease the floor. Use Camouflage to use the Hide skill to snipe (as it is described in the PHB). You take a -20 to it, but with the bonus from Camouflage, it's only a -10. If you have other ways to up your Hide check, use them. Displacement/Blur are contingencies if he somehow slips free of the entangle, grease, climbs up the wall and gets you. Technically, you can use Levitate to stay away from all the walls as well, which should be helpful.
2) Fog and Mirrors. Wand of Fog Cloud, Scroll(s) of Silent Image. Trap him in fog, create illusory duplicates of yourself (better coupled with a Potion of Mirror Image) and attack. You will need a way to give yourself flanking. I recommend a Scroll of Persistent Blade, if your allies don't wish to help.
3) Darkness. Potion of Ebon Eyes, Wand of Ghost Sound and Scroll of Darkness or Deeper Darkness. Or simply natural darkness. Since the only way he has to track you is by sound, abuse the Wand of Ghost Sound for all its worth.
4) Death From Above. Buy a potion of Spider Climb or Levitate (or even Fly). Stock up on daggers, get a Scroll of Cloud of Knives. Supplement the spell with thrown daggers of your own. This goes well combined with the Trap Room strategy above.
Example Strategy:
Pre-Encounter Preparations:
1) Featureless room with Darkness and Entangle. Maximum prep time: Darkness: 30 minutes. Entangle: 1 minute.
2) Potion of Cat's Grace (Up to 3 minutes beforehand).
3) Scroll of Greater Mage's Armour (Up to 5 hours beforehand).
4) Potion of Barkskin (Up to 30 minutes beforehand).
5) Potion of Ebon Eyes (Up to 30 minutes beforehand).
6) Potion of Spider Climb (Up to 30 minutes beforehand) or Levitate (Up to 3 minutes beforehand).
Immediate Preparations:
7) Round -1: Scroll of Displacement.
8) Round 0: Potion of Nerveskitter.
Combat Begins:
Lure him into the room. You must keep your distance from him at all times. If the target distrusts the dark room, a Scroll of Silent Image used on the door threshold will provide a completely false image of the room.
9) Round 1: Scroll of Enervation.
10) Round 2: Scroll of Crushing Despair.
11) Round 3: Scroll of Curse of Ill Omen.
12) Round 4: Scroll of Bestow Curse (reduce his Wisdom by 6).
13) Round 5: Wand of Grease.
14) Round 6: Scroll of Slow.
15) Round 7: Wand of Impede.
16) Round 8: Scroll of Cloud of Knives. Release a knife.
17) Round 9: Scroll of Haste on self. Release a knife. Attack with thrown daggers.
19) Rounds 10-14: Release a knife. Attack with thrown daggers. Use Wand of Impede if target approaches too close. Use Scroll of Hold Person when Slow wears off.
20) When target is weakened, use a Scroll of Mirror Image, a Scroll of Persistent Blade, and as many Silent Images as desired. Close in to finish him off in melee.
Hope that helped.
Now I actually doubt you can Sneak Attack with flasks of acid and such but I DO like the fact that I can use them to target weapons (and in this case ARMOR). I do have a question: if I throw acid into someone's square I have to specifically target them; does this do 1dd6 acid to them AND their weapons and armor? And regarding splash weapons, say I target one square of a Large creature; if I hit that square with Alchemist's Fire, he takes 1d6 fire; would he take an additional 1d6 for each surrounding square that he occupies (ergo a total 4d6)?
I know I can now use Acid flasks and perhaps other such stuff to ruin equipment as long as I can target it so I can at least target a carried or used weapon, deal 1d6 acid, and cause the person to suffer splash damage.
As far as energy attacks go, no, only acid and sonic deal full damage to objects. Metal or no electricity and fire deal half damage and cold deals a quarter.
I'd like skill tricks but the darned things cost a lot. I've already got next levels points allocated to UMD and Forgery (just so I havve the dang skill), and then after that I'd be able to buy a few at level 13
Taking 20 on Search sounds perfect but roleplay wise it'd probably be best to make normal search checks until a trap is actually detected, otherwise you take 20 on every 5 ft square, and some traps have proximity alarms that extend beyond the 10 ft range of search. Disable Device would be perfect though, because you could intentionally setup a bypass. By the way, how long does it take to remove a bypass? If I wanted to lead enemies into their own trap would it take a full-round action or standard or what?
EDIT: I just remembered that while acid and sonic deal full damage to objects, hardness still applies. Acid flasks would be good for that stupid deathknight's fleshgrinding handaxes though.
-If you're not going to metagame by making a preemptive strike, then you shouldn't metagame by making an obscene amount of random preparations either. Either way, you are metagaming.
-Why is it you can't count on the rest of your group to help you out and kill the monk if he attacks you?
-Since the monk is waiting for an excuse to "legally" kill you, how about you just don't give him one?
-If the monk was really going to kill every new player to loot his corpse (as you suggest will happen if you lose this fight), then why hasn't he killed anyone yet, and why would anyone continue to play with him?
This sounds more like a personal disagreement with the player from your end rather than any real threat from him. In fact, I'm starting to think that you are the one looking for any excuse to kill him, and you are trying to find a way to do it and come out looking like the good guy.
Hey, if you can convince your DM that it applies (and that they count as light weapons) go for it.
Actually, you can Sneak Attack with any attack that you make. You can Sneak Attack with spells (See Spellwarp Sniper from Complete Scoundrel). Anything that requires an attack roll, deals damage and hits a target who has been denied its Dexterity bonus to AC gets extra Sneak Attack damage. Your DM might not allow it, but he won't find a ruling in an official book that says you can't. Unless it's been errata'ed and I am unaware of this.
Yes, that indeed does 1d6 acid damage to armour and weapons, but most DMs won't bother tracking damage since it's unlikely it's going to overcome Hardness. I am currently unsure of whether the splash damage stacks if the creature is Large or bigger, so I would recommend you read the Rules Compendium or the SRD and try to find the answer there.
You also might want to look into Improved Acid Flasks and Improved Alchemist's Fire. I believe they do 2d6 damage. I forget where they are from, but if I had to guess, I'd say Eberron. Probably Magic of Eberron or the Campaign Setting. And I also recall there was a way to increase the damage done by them, but I think you had to either brew it yourself (via the Craft(Alchemy) skill) or use magic/rare components.
Yes, I know, hence why my first two suggestions were Acid and Sonic, and then I suggested asking your DM to let Electricity apply fully to metal. If he doesn't go with that, it's no biggie. Acid and Sonic are coincidentally the least two types of energy resisted (not counting force), so carrying around Acid/Sonic flasks is always a good idea. Also keep in mind that you can apply the Acidic enchantment on a weapon and have it deal an extra 1d6 acid damage.
There's always the Open Minded feat if you want more skill points. However, you sound feat-starved already so that's not always a good choice.
Suit yourself. When I play a Rogue, I always take 20 while searching for traps if I'm not hurried. It's better to be safe than sound. However, remember you can also take 10. In your previous case, it would not have helped (you would end up 5 points short of the DC), but your chances of making the DC were only 30% to begin with.
As per this link: www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/disableDevice....
Disabling a trap takes 2d4 rounds. If you beat the DC by 10 or more, you are allowed to bypass it instead of disabling it. It's part of the 2d4 rounds, no extra actions required.