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I wanna change my class

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
spidershin
Dec 10, 2009 12:03:02 I am kind of tired of my current cahr, and he dosnt really shine till lvl16 and we are lvl 7. I am a swordmage atm, but i wanna try an assassin. The major problem with this is the group roles i feel.

Our current group is a sorcerer(dragon), Warlord(resourceful), Advenger(Unity), Ranger(archery) and my swordmage(assault).

So my fear is without a meat tank we could be in a ot of trouble because we only have limited about of healing.

So would my changing classes really mess things up?
#2
mellored
Dec 10, 2009 12:35:41 Ah, the problem with using char-op builds. Way to many don't work till you hit a certain PP feature.

Warlords and avengers can both off-tank, so you should be fine. Just work on killing the enemy before they kill you.
#3
spidershin
Dec 10, 2009 13:02:14 Yeah the op thing can suck, but i really only have played defenders in 4th. they are my fav roe overall, but its kinda gotten boring after a few failed campagins that lasted only to lvl 13ish . So i wanna try a steathy char, for role playish reasons, plus my current swordmage personality dosn't mix well with the current group. So if he goes away for awhile and coe back he could change a lot in that time
#4
fighterforhire
Dec 10, 2009 13:27:28 I noticed the group makeup and that brings me to a question I have had for awhile. Why do people not enjoy playing the healer? 3.0 3.5 and even 4.0 I enjoyed the cleric and would be one if our group needed it and sometimes I would just do it for the heck of it.

Why does no one want to be the healer?
#5
Furion_Thamior
Dec 10, 2009 13:32:18
I noticed the group makeup and that brings me to a question I have had for awhile. Why do people not enjoy playing the healer? 3.0 3.5 and even 4.0 I enjoyed the cleric and would be one if our group needed it and sometimes I would just do it for the heck of it.

Why does no one want to be the healer?

Their group has a leader/ healer. The warlord.

Clerics aren't the only healers anymore, and indeed, going all-in on healing power isn't always necessary. Having been adventuring with a few Pacifist Clerics in LFR, I can't tell you the number of times I've just wished they were a tactical warlord instead.

I'll admit, it takes a certain mindset to play the healer. It is a very reactive role, and it's one of the strongest points of 4e that Leaders have a much more proactive role in combat now.

@the OP: retiring your character for a new one shouldn't be an issue with any reasonable DM. Defenders are always useful and your party will be more fragile without one, but if you aren't having fun, it isn't worth playing the character.
#6
mccowen
Dec 10, 2009 13:33:30
I am kind of tired of my current cahr, and he dosnt really shine till lvl16 and we are lvl 7. I am a swordmage atm, but i wanna try an assassin. The major problem with this is the group roles i feel.

Our current group is a sorcerer(dragon), Warlord(resourceful), Advenger(Unity), Ranger(archery) and my swordmage(assault).

So my fear is without a meat tank we could be in a ot of trouble because we only have limited about of healing.

So would my changing classes really mess things up?

You made a (fairly common) mistake when you put your character together. Optimization in general, not just in D&D, requires constraints: given situation X, I need to be able to do Y. If you were starting at lower level, one of your optimization constraints should have been "The character needs to work from level 1 all the way up to 30". You didn't do that, and so now you're stuck playing through 50 more encounters in order to get to the point where your character is interesting for you. Next time, you've got to think past the awesome trick he gets at level 16, and remind yourself of all the other things that your character has to be able to do--one of which may be survive until level 16.

With that said, here's my take on your situation. You've only played defenders, and want to switch up to a stealthy, non-defender. However, your group is short on healing and you're afraid that losing the only defender will make encounters more difficult. The bard is a great answer to this situation: you have healing, you have a little bit of marking (misdirected mark is one of the best at-wills in the game), and bards get plenty of skills. Instead of bringing in a PC with the Assassin class, bring in a character that better fits the group's mechanical needs, with skills and a background that make him an assassin.

A changeling bard with Sneak of Shadows and Shadow Initiate can be trained in Bluff, Stealth, Streetwise, and Thievery (all the makings of a great assassin). The changeling's racial power makes him superb at infiltration, able to get close to any target--and your striker MC feats give you the potential to do a massive +4d6 hit against that foe you've marked for death. With a songblade dagger, you'll be able to threaten your enemies from up close or far away with no loss of efficiency, and there's no one better than a bard for RP opportunities.

Good luck with your game! I hope whatever choice you make works out better for you than your swordmage is.
#7
spidershin
Dec 10, 2009 13:33:43 Well in 3.5 my most played class was the bard. I was a fan of buffing, and healing went well with the bard. But in 4 i feel they make you be more part of the combat making you throw out an attack role to make some heals and buffs work, and i am not a huge fan of that. I have always been a support player. thats why i think i perfer defender over all cause they mark is a good debuff, and gets then off my allys
#8
fighterforhire
Dec 10, 2009 13:36:27 Lol didnt see the warlord in the group but even then in 4.0 I was good at healing and even then I could hit stuff like a mack truck. In 3.5 I played a nuetral cleric and dug into the pain spells and the healing spells. I just guess the days of having a true healer class IE a cleric have passed because with the onvent of healing surges and crap in 4.0 they have diminished the need for the healer.
#9
spidershin
Dec 10, 2009 13:38:35
I am kind of tired of my current cahr, and he dosnt really shine till lvl16 and we are lvl 7. I am a swordmage atm, but i wanna try an assassin. The major problem with this is the group roles i feel.

Our current group is a sorcerer(dragon), Warlord(resourceful), Advenger(Unity), Ranger(archery) and my swordmage(assault).

So my fear is without a meat tank we could be in a ot of trouble because we only have limited about of healing.

So would my changing classes really mess things up?

You made a (fairly common) mistake when you put your character together. Optimization in general, not just in D&D, requires constraints: given situation X, I need to be able to do Y. If you were starting at lower level, one of your optimization constraints should have been "The character needs to work from level 1 all the way up to 30". You didn't do that, and so now you're stuck playing through 50 more encounters in order to get to the point where your character is interesting for you. Next time, you've got to think past the awesome trick he gets at level 16, and remind yourself of all the other things that your character has to be able to do--one of which may be survive until level 16.

I enjoy the character for lvl 1-16, but i have played it from lvl 1-13ish about 3 or 4 times now, and just blah with it atm
#10
mellored
Dec 10, 2009 14:11:45
I enjoy the character for lvl 1-16, but i have played it from lvl 1-13ish about 3 or 4 times now, and just blah with it atm

Ouch, at most i could play a character from 1-30, no way i could play him from 1-13 twice, let alone 3 times.

You might want to consider playing a warlord you're self. Having an avenger attack 3 times a round should work out nicely.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 spidershin Dec 10, 2009 12:03:02	I am kind of tired of my current cahr, and he dosnt really shine till lvl16 and we are lvl 7. I am a swordmage atm, but i wanna try an assassin. The major problem with this is the group roles i feel. Our current group is a sorcerer(dragon), Warlord(resourceful), Advenger(Unity), Ranger(archery) and my swordmage(assault). So my fear is without a meat tank we could be in a ot of trouble because we only have limited about of healing. So would my changing classes really mess things up?
#2 mellored Dec 10, 2009 12:35:41	Ah, the problem with using char-op builds. Way to many don't work till you hit a certain PP feature. Warlords and avengers can both off-tank, so you should be fine. Just work on killing the enemy before they kill you.
#3 spidershin Dec 10, 2009 13:02:14	Yeah the op thing can suck, but i really only have played defenders in 4th. they are my fav roe overall, but its kinda gotten boring after a few failed campagins that lasted only to lvl 13ish . So i wanna try a steathy char, for role playish reasons, plus my current swordmage personality dosn't mix well with the current group. So if he goes away for awhile and coe back he could change a lot in that time
#4 fighterforhire Dec 10, 2009 13:27:28	I noticed the group makeup and that brings me to a question I have had for awhile. Why do people not enjoy playing the healer? 3.0 3.5 and even 4.0 I enjoyed the cleric and would be one if our group needed it and sometimes I would just do it for the heck of it. Why does no one want to be the healer?
#5 Furion_Thamior Dec 10, 2009 13:32:18	I noticed the group makeup and that brings me to a question I have had for awhile. Why do people not enjoy playing the healer? 3.0 3.5 and even 4.0 I enjoyed the cleric and would be one if our group needed it and sometimes I would just do it for the heck of it. Why does no one want to be the healer? Their group has a leader/ healer. The warlord. Clerics aren't the only healers anymore, and indeed, going all-in on healing power isn't always necessary. Having been adventuring with a few Pacifist Clerics in LFR, I can't tell you the number of times I've just wished they were a tactical warlord instead. I'll admit, it takes a certain mindset to play the healer. It is a very reactive role, and it's one of the strongest points of 4e that Leaders have a much more proactive role in combat now. @the OP: retiring your character for a new one shouldn't be an issue with any reasonable DM. Defenders are always useful and your party will be more fragile without one, but if you aren't having fun, it isn't worth playing the character.
#6 mccowen Dec 10, 2009 13:33:30	I am kind of tired of my current cahr, and he dosnt really shine till lvl16 and we are lvl 7. I am a swordmage atm, but i wanna try an assassin. The major problem with this is the group roles i feel. Our current group is a sorcerer(dragon), Warlord(resourceful), Advenger(Unity), Ranger(archery) and my swordmage(assault). So my fear is without a meat tank we could be in a ot of trouble because we only have limited about of healing. So would my changing classes really mess things up? You made a (fairly common) mistake when you put your character together. Optimization in general, not just in D&D, requires constraints: given situation X, I need to be able to do Y. If you were starting at lower level, one of your optimization constraints should have been "The character needs to work from level 1 all the way up to 30". You didn't do that, and so now you're stuck playing through 50 more encounters in order to get to the point where your character is interesting for you. Next time, you've got to think past the awesome trick he gets at level 16, and remind yourself of all the other things that your character has to be able to do--one of which may be survive until level 16. With that said, here's my take on your situation. You've only played defenders, and want to switch up to a stealthy, non-defender. However, your group is short on healing and you're afraid that losing the only defender will make encounters more difficult. The bard is a great answer to this situation: you have healing, you have a little bit of marking (misdirected mark is one of the best at-wills in the game), and bards get plenty of skills. Instead of bringing in a PC with the Assassin class, bring in a character that better fits the group's mechanical needs, with skills and a background that make him an assassin. A changeling bard with Sneak of Shadows and Shadow Initiate can be trained in Bluff, Stealth, Streetwise, and Thievery (all the makings of a great assassin). The changeling's racial power makes him superb at infiltration, able to get close to any target--and your striker MC feats give you the potential to do a massive +4d6 hit against that foe you've marked for death. With a songblade dagger, you'll be able to threaten your enemies from up close or far away with no loss of efficiency, and there's no one better than a bard for RP opportunities. Good luck with your game! I hope whatever choice you make works out better for you than your swordmage is.
#7 spidershin Dec 10, 2009 13:33:43	Well in 3.5 my most played class was the bard. I was a fan of buffing, and healing went well with the bard. But in 4 i feel they make you be more part of the combat making you throw out an attack role to make some heals and buffs work, and i am not a huge fan of that. I have always been a support player. thats why i think i perfer defender over all cause they mark is a good debuff, and gets then off my allys
#8 fighterforhire Dec 10, 2009 13:36:27	Lol didnt see the warlord in the group but even then in 4.0 I was good at healing and even then I could hit stuff like a mack truck. In 3.5 I played a nuetral cleric and dug into the pain spells and the healing spells. I just guess the days of having a true healer class IE a cleric have passed because with the onvent of healing surges and crap in 4.0 they have diminished the need for the healer.
#9 spidershin Dec 10, 2009 13:38:35	I am kind of tired of my current cahr, and he dosnt really shine till lvl16 and we are lvl 7. I am a swordmage atm, but i wanna try an assassin. The major problem with this is the group roles i feel. Our current group is a sorcerer(dragon), Warlord(resourceful), Advenger(Unity), Ranger(archery) and my swordmage(assault). So my fear is without a meat tank we could be in a ot of trouble because we only have limited about of healing. So would my changing classes really mess things up? You made a (fairly common) mistake when you put your character together. Optimization in general, not just in D&D, requires constraints: given situation X, I need to be able to do Y. If you were starting at lower level, one of your optimization constraints should have been "The character needs to work from level 1 all the way up to 30". You didn't do that, and so now you're stuck playing through 50 more encounters in order to get to the point where your character is interesting for you. Next time, you've got to think past the awesome trick he gets at level 16, and remind yourself of all the other things that your character has to be able to do--one of which may be survive until level 16. I enjoy the character for lvl 1-16, but i have played it from lvl 1-13ish about 3 or 4 times now, and just blah with it atm
#10 mellored Dec 10, 2009 14:11:45	I enjoy the character for lvl 1-16, but i have played it from lvl 1-13ish about 3 or 4 times now, and just blah with it atm Ouch, at most i could play a character from 1-30, no way i could play him from 1-13 twice, let alone 3 times. You might want to consider playing a warlord you're self. Having an avenger attack 3 times a round should work out nicely.