If you can't role-play, atleast try for roll-play. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

If you can't role-play, atleast try for roll-play.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
heathan_v20
Feb 01, 2009 18:33:18 Ok so here goes...I have been an avid player of D&D for over 14 years. For the last 5-6 years I've begun to play the more hardnosed style (basically story emursion). Now don't get my wrong I play more loose knit style but for the most part I prefer a tight knit group rather then the normal hodge-podge type group.
So basically to sum it up, I run a group similar to my play style we all meet up, no one misses and everyone seems to like the game (although recent events have distracted me and I had to call it for a week).
Now I play in another game that is less tight riegned and more hodgepodged, and I like the group period. We even had a session last game where one of the guys basically disrespected my guy and I was like oh man, well I'll have to think about it, but my guy may retire. I do a funny voice with the guy to, everyone like's him. Combat wise it is very similar to my game and there is some role-play but for the most part, its a dungeon crawl so not alot of "I am Indigo Montoya, blah blah blah." But overall I give the game a 7-8 due to fun factor.

So enter the next group I play with. This group is a recent one I joined, I like the DM, I like one, maybe two of the other players. But for me the group doesn't seem to fit my play style. One of the players is honestly an obnoxious terd, and the other player I get along with sit there and whisper each other about how annoying he is (this allows me to get through the game without slapping the hell out of his prepubecent *****, that and its an online game).

Now it seems the DM plans on doin' more of the role-playing then my other game, but the players don't honestly seem up to it. The guy I get along with, and I, are the ones who have done RPing, for the most part, and one of the players complained about it in an email to everyone. That it seemed like people where hogging the spotlight and he was mad because he didn't get to do any role-play because blah blah blah. So here in the next session I try to step back (my guy plays a warlock with 18 Cha and ranks in all interactive skills) and let other players take the spotlight. While we would form skill/role-play challenges and push other people in the spotlight, they'd freeze up and be like "uh uh uh". So before the DM would say, "While you stand there gawking at the blah blah blah in front of you it begins to blah blah blah" I'd jump in there with my assistant (the guy I get along with) and be like, "Well we are the soldiers in the name of blah blah blah....".
Now once again I understand if people can't pretend to have a 18 Cha or 18 Int...I mean after all there are very few people who play the game with an 18 Str so don't feel bad. But if you can't role-play sum it up and roll it, that's what I try to do.
Infact in my game characters can impact other characters with social skills and the reason is, those skill represent your character's aptitude in that skill, not your aptitude.
So I guess this is just a rant or whatever but have any of you ran into this problem??? Btw the person who kept freezing up is a paladin with an 18 Cha, who is supposed to also be the speaker for the party, with me and the bard helping.
#2
op1983
Feb 01, 2009 19:09:34 So, you have 3 groups you play in? So lucky!

If I didn't read your post incorrectly and you really do have three I say stick with the new one. What it could be is that the other guys are fairly new and they will figure it out. It only takes a few sessions before people that haven't done it ever start acting like theyre old pros.

Besides you like the DM and one of the other players so they prolly like you to and Im sure they would be disapointed if you left.
#3
heathan_v20
Feb 01, 2009 19:47:29 oh no, it really seems like me and the other player are the only ones in the group that are more old school I guess. The DM is ok, I think he has potential as a good DM.
As for the other players, beside the DM and the one I like, there is well meh. There seems to be more hesitance, plus its a pretty big group, and I'd like to get into a group of 4-6 people, more then that and the game begins to bog down and as the one player said, not everyone will be able to share in the spotlight (even after we all become accustomed to each other). As for the 3 games man, I just have to say MapTools+NoLife=3 games.
But I will say this, I miss in-person gaming and my old group has invited me to join back with them (I've been preoccupied and they recently found out I'm availible in a few weeks to rejoin them). I miss gaming in real life, being able to not only convey by tone, but facial expression as well.
My last session it downed on me how I play NPCs when a player asked his commander, "Well what's in the bag?" and I started leaning towards my computer and then realized, he can't see me do that so I told him, "he leans forward and says to you, 'I'd tell ya but then I'd have to kill ya....hahahahahahahahaha!'"
#4
canamrock
Feb 01, 2009 20:16:17 Oh, yeah... role-playing can be fun and engrossing. It can also bring out the worst in people. There are some who crave attention and will use the RP format to use their captive audience for it. There are also others who are naturally shy or reserved who may wish to open up more, living out those fantasies that they'd never get the nerve to enact for real. Sometimes this can work well; if the rest of the group and the attention hog are working to the same end, this can often be very entertaining. If the hog is problematic, though, and doesn't understand when too much is too much, this is where games stop being fun and become tedious. This is a problem faster when one player is working at cross purposes to the others; that's not to say characters must be friendly, but when the players do not at all compromise on action choices to keep a game moving, this can grind a group right to a halt.
#5
Hocus-Smokus
Feb 01, 2009 20:23:16
Oh, yeah... role-playing can be fun and engrossing. It can also bring out the worst in people. There are some who crave attention and will use the RP format to use their captive audience for it. There are also others who are naturally shy or reserved who may wish to open up more, living out those fantasies that they'd never get the nerve to enact for real. Sometimes this can work well; if the rest of the group and the attention hog are working to the same end, this can often be very entertaining. If the hog is problematic, though, and doesn't understand when too much is too much, this is where games stop being fun and become tedious. This is a problem faster when one player is working at cross purposes to the others; that's not to say characters must be friendly, but when the players do not at all compromise on action choices to keep a game moving, this can grind a group right to a halt.

Very wise words, canamrock. Since I started DMing for the RPGA, I've had to make groups out of some very unlikely players. Fortunately, most of them have worked out well. Some of the younger players tend to want to hog the spotlight a bit (in my experience), and I've had to rope them in. Usually, the group maintains itself with little need for my intervention. Usually, a simple, "hey man...dial it back a bit, eh?" from another player (and a nod of approval from myself) is enough for the spotlight-hogs. For the super-shy players, most of the other players are very happy to help them out. Forcing the attention on them is not ever a great idea, but simply asking for suggestions is a great way to get them to open up a little. The more they interact, the easier it becomes for them over time.
#6
Rant_Casey
Feb 02, 2009 9:50:42 Hocus-Smokus, in my experience with RPGA, there are other extremes: Players *Terrified* of role playing because it has no place in RPGA games. It's perhaps a flaw of the format, but due to the desire to accomplish the most in an alloted time block, and the lack of RP rewards (oddly!), RPGA enthusiasts are often the *worst* roleplayers in the room... and they benefit the most from it.

I'd like to see RPGA reward roleplay more, with mechanical rewards. It's difficult to accomplish, perhaps, but as it stands, roleplaying is actually a liability for RPGA games - and that should *never* be the case.
#7
Hocus-Smokus
Feb 02, 2009 10:14:45
Hocus-Smokus, in my experience with RPGA, there are other extremes: Players *Terrified* of role playing because it has no place in RPGA games. It's perhaps a flaw of the format, but due to the desire to accomplish the most in an alloted time block, and the lack of RP rewards (oddly!), RPGA enthusiasts are often the *worst* roleplayers in the room... and they benefit the most from it.

I'd like to see RPGA reward roleplay more, with mechanical rewards. It's difficult to accomplish, perhaps, but as it stands, roleplaying is actually a liability for RPGA games - and that should *never* be the case.

Keep in mind that there is a difference between bad roleplayers, and roleplayers forfeiting RP in lieu of accomplishing a lot in a short amount of time. Many RPGA members that I DM for I also know personally, and they are great RPers...but like you said, there are severe time restraints in RPGA games, so quite a bit of RP has to be skimmed aside in order to complete the adventure at hand. I feel bad about that, because I love long-winded, all RP sessions with little combat (and away from the RPGA scene that's what we do), but you work with what you've got. If all you have is 4 hours, there simply is no time for excessive RP. That doesn't make RPGA players bad RPers...just RPers with little time for RP. I do, however, agree with you about seeing RP rewards in RPGA games...I'm more than happy to extend a game for however long it needs in order to accommodate RP.
#8
Rant_Casey
Feb 02, 2009 12:03:15 Hocus-Smokus, I definitely agree that there are RPers in the RPGA, but at present, the format seems to offer little reward, and in fact, hinders them. I think this is due to the structure of the modules, and the way they're currently ran. In a nutshell, you can RP, but there's nothing you can do to 'avoid' a pre-set encounter, to my knowledge. If that *does* happen, it lessens the rewards.

I would think an ideal solution would be that an RP or non-combat solution (talking your way out of something, sneaking past something, etc.) should give you XP just an encounter does, and allow the players to move on the with module, rather than forcing them to *still* go through the battle.

Making them go through all the battles, regardless of their efforts to circumvent straight-up brawls, means that - from an RPGA standpoint - RP can seem like a waste of time. It bothers me, when roleplayers get dirty looks, and powergamers who want to run from battle to battle are praised.

It's currently the RPGA way, but it doesn't have to be. I'm glad some RPGA GMs feel the same, Hocus.
#9
Hocus-Smokus
Feb 02, 2009 12:08:01
Hocus-Smokus, I definitely agree that there are RPers in the RPGA, but at present, the format seems to offer little reward, and in fact, hinders them. I think this is due to the structure of the modules, and the way they're currently ran. In a nutshell, you can RP, but there's nothing you can do to 'avoid' a pre-set encounter, to my knowledge. If that *does* happen, it lessens the rewards.

I would think an ideal solution would be that an RP or non-combat solution (talking your way out of something, sneaking past something, etc.) should give you XP just an encounter does, and allow the players to move on the with module, rather than forcing them to *still* go through the battle.

Making them go through all the battles, regardless of their efforts to circumvent straight-up brawls, means that - from an RPGA standpoint - RP can seem like a waste of time. It bothers me, when roleplayers get dirty looks, and powergamers who want to run from battle to battle are praised.

It's currently the RPGA way, but it doesn't have to be. I'm glad some RPGA GMs feel the same, Hocus.

I always liked to think that the RPGA almost set the standard for D&D play. However...I have to agree with you. RP is almost a waste of time in the RPGA. You CAN talk/sneak your way around an encounter, but XP in the RPGA prohibits rewarding the players for doing so, and simply slows things down. Fortunately, most players at RPGA events are aware of how it is, and try to do their best to maintain a swift flow of adventures. I would love to see some changes made in sanctioned events that would allow for more RP, and a reward system for those that do. After all...it is the Role-Playing Game Association...not the Battle-Only Association.
#10
JayM
Feb 02, 2009 13:49:54
I always liked to think that the RPGA almost set the standard for D&D play.

You would think that, but it isn't the case. The RPGA is actually an oddball situation in my experience. I've never seen a non-RPGA game that runs like RPGA ones.

So here in the next session I try to step back (my guy plays a warlock with 18 Cha and ranks in all interactive skills) and let other players take the spotlight. While we would form skill/role-play challenges and push other people in the spotlight, they'd freeze up and be like "uh uh uh". So before the DM would say, "While you stand there gawking at the blah blah blah in front of you it begins to blah blah blah" I'd jump in there with my assistant (the guy I get along with) and be like, "Well we are the soldiers in the name of blah blah blah....".

That is actually poor play on the part of the DM. In that sort of situation the DM should give the player time to think. Not everybody can do that sort of thing on the cuff.

Jay
#11
nom
Feb 02, 2009 16:07:36
That is actually poor play on the part of the DM. In that sort of situation the DM should give the player time to think. Not everybody can do that sort of thing on the cuff.

I'd go a step further. The DM should be active, but in a way that helps the player, not penalises him/her for lack of RP confidence.

DM: what are you trying to achieve?
P: ...
DM: are you pretending to be a soldier, or do you want to appeal to his vanity?
P: ...
DM: OK, try some words to that effect.
P: (comes out with something vaguely appropriate)
DM: (maybe makes a roll) He thinks about this for a moment, then responds ... .

Remember that most people's exposure to dialogue is TV, movies and books. In those media, the author has time to think about what is being said and to revise it several times until it feels natural and spontaneous (yes, the contrast was deliberate). As a result, most people's attempts at spontaneous roleplay come off feeling very forced.

For myself, I'd much rather RP dialogue via a text medium (message board, even chat room). The much slower response time helps me formulate natural sounding responses and to stay in character better.

I reckon the hardest characters to RP are "normal" ones. Heavily introverted characters or ones not interested in dialogue don't interact much, or just talk in grunts or whatever. Show-stealers tend to be a little stereotyped and operate by forcing whatever the situation to their own agenda. But when you're playing as a normal character, and thus reacting as much as acting, it's quite difficult to respond in-character on the fly.

Another thought: often 3rd party roleplay (he says, she says, even I say) with focus on intent, not words, is easiest for less confident players. For the most part, that's how we do indirect interactions in our everyday lives, too. You say "go and ask the shopkeeper for a roast chicken" and trust the person running the errand (the "actor") to put it in their own words, not "say to the shopkeeper, 'may I buy a roast chicken'". In an RPG, the player is the intent, and the character is the actor, so it's OK for the group to assume the PC finds the right words, just like they assume the PC knows how to find the giant's weak spot with their sword or cast a spell.
#12
heathan_v20
Feb 02, 2009 18:51:02 Well I have to say, I feel like the DM should push the pace. For example:

Players are standing before a lord, and he says to them, "So what have you come here for?" Everything is quiet for a few...then one of the players casually steps up.

That is acceptible wait, but in our main two scenarios we where rushing bad guys and putting them on the spot so it was like this.

Players rush over the hill standing before the goblin hordes who yell out, "Who are you!?!" The players stand there and go..."uhhhhh"

This is not acceptible, the DM should be like bam here they come guys and our oppurtunity to be like, "We have annihilated your war party and we have come to take over this tribe of bandits, kneel before us!" is taken.
#13
nom
Feb 02, 2009 23:23:50 Again, you're punishing the players for inexperience. Mostly, this doesn't build experience, it just means they stop even bothering to try (since it never works anyway).

What the DM (particularly) needs to remember is that he (or she) has already seen both sides of the story. The players have not. Which means they are suprised and the DM isn't. And this is a fantasy. You aren't supposed to meet a certain level of impromptu acting ability before you're allowed to play.

The natural human response in an unfamiliar situation is to panic. It takes practice and training to channel that response into something positive instead. There are several ways of achieving this, but punishing the players every time they fail is a particularly poor way, especially when we're talking in the context of a recreational activity.
#14
silenna
Feb 03, 2009 7:57:19 Nom said it well.
I understand and respect your wish for a faster pace, Heathan_v20, but I think it will turn out for the best in the long run if you keep your patience for a few more sessions. Yes, it sounds great - no, it feels great! - to have the dialogue practically flying between characters (PCs and NPCs), but while you are already comfortable with and even expecting this style of gaming, others don't possess or have not yet discovered their talent for it.

While it may be perfectly acceptable to prod their characters to shake them out of inactivity (and it may be "realistic" to have their characters live with the consequences), sometimes it's best not to pressure them further while IG. Chances are they had ideas - two minutes after they needed them. If they freeze up, ask them and the DM after the session if they'd like to re-play that scene. It won't change that session, but especially for insecure players it can be worth a lot to "have said it", to know their thoughts haven't been stupid or wasted. Next time it will be easier for them to react in time or at least tell you what's the matter.

Don't take this wrong, but when push comes to shove you have other groups where you enjoy gaming, while this situation could be "make-or-break" for that other player. I know it's odd when someone complains about "spotlight hogging" and then instead of being happy when it's their great moment freezes up, but when positive and negative exitement clash insecure people aren't very logical.

Four years ago I was at exactly that point. I really wanted to roleplay, but I mistrusted my ideas, couldn't get the words out and doubted I would get any better at it. (And that wasn't even my first PC, just the first I played in a real group!) It nearly drove us all crazy. Luckily I had an experienced, patient DM and a great character I yearned to see played to her full potential, even while I feared that I couldn't do them justice. Turned out I could. :D

I hope you can solve this problem together and the group can develop a style you all enjoy.

EDIT: Whoops, I didn't mean to scare you guys and gals off...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 heathan_v20 Feb 01, 2009 18:33:18	Ok so here goes...I have been an avid player of D&D for over 14 years. For the last 5-6 years I've begun to play the more hardnosed style (basically story emursion). Now don't get my wrong I play more loose knit style but for the most part I prefer a tight knit group rather then the normal hodge-podge type group. So basically to sum it up, I run a group similar to my play style we all meet up, no one misses and everyone seems to like the game (although recent events have distracted me and I had to call it for a week). Now I play in another game that is less tight riegned and more hodgepodged, and I like the group period. We even had a session last game where one of the guys basically disrespected my guy and I was like oh man, well I'll have to think about it, but my guy may retire. I do a funny voice with the guy to, everyone like's him. Combat wise it is very similar to my game and there is some role-play but for the most part, its a dungeon crawl so not alot of "I am Indigo Montoya, blah blah blah." But overall I give the game a 7-8 due to fun factor. So enter the next group I play with. This group is a recent one I joined, I like the DM, I like one, maybe two of the other players. But for me the group doesn't seem to fit my play style. One of the players is honestly an obnoxious terd, and the other player I get along with sit there and whisper each other about how annoying he is (this allows me to get through the game without slapping the hell out of his prepubecent *****, that and its an online game). Now it seems the DM plans on doin' more of the role-playing then my other game, but the players don't honestly seem up to it. The guy I get along with, and I, are the ones who have done RPing, for the most part, and one of the players complained about it in an email to everyone. That it seemed like people where hogging the spotlight and he was mad because he didn't get to do any role-play because blah blah blah. So here in the next session I try to step back (my guy plays a warlock with 18 Cha and ranks in all interactive skills) and let other players take the spotlight. While we would form skill/role-play challenges and push other people in the spotlight, they'd freeze up and be like "uh uh uh". So before the DM would say, "While you stand there gawking at the blah blah blah in front of you it begins to blah blah blah" I'd jump in there with my assistant (the guy I get along with) and be like, "Well we are the soldiers in the name of blah blah blah....". Now once again I understand if people can't pretend to have a 18 Cha or 18 Int...I mean after all there are very few people who play the game with an 18 Str so don't feel bad. But if you can't role-play sum it up and roll it, that's what I try to do. Infact in my game characters can impact other characters with social skills and the reason is, those skill represent your character's aptitude in that skill, not your aptitude. So I guess this is just a rant or whatever but have any of you ran into this problem??? Btw the person who kept freezing up is a paladin with an 18 Cha, who is supposed to also be the speaker for the party, with me and the bard helping.
#2 op1983 Feb 01, 2009 19:09:34	So, you have 3 groups you play in? So lucky! If I didn't read your post incorrectly and you really do have three I say stick with the new one. What it could be is that the other guys are fairly new and they will figure it out. It only takes a few sessions before people that haven't done it ever start acting like theyre old pros. Besides you like the DM and one of the other players so they prolly like you to and Im sure they would be disapointed if you left.
#3 heathan_v20 Feb 01, 2009 19:47:29	oh no, it really seems like me and the other player are the only ones in the group that are more old school I guess. The DM is ok, I think he has potential as a good DM. As for the other players, beside the DM and the one I like, there is well meh. There seems to be more hesitance, plus its a pretty big group, and I'd like to get into a group of 4-6 people, more then that and the game begins to bog down and as the one player said, not everyone will be able to share in the spotlight (even after we all become accustomed to each other). As for the 3 games man, I just have to say MapTools+NoLife=3 games. But I will say this, I miss in-person gaming and my old group has invited me to join back with them (I've been preoccupied and they recently found out I'm availible in a few weeks to rejoin them). I miss gaming in real life, being able to not only convey by tone, but facial expression as well. My last session it downed on me how I play NPCs when a player asked his commander, "Well what's in the bag?" and I started leaning towards my computer and then realized, he can't see me do that so I told him, "he leans forward and says to you, 'I'd tell ya but then I'd have to kill ya....hahahahahahahahaha!'"
#4 canamrock Feb 01, 2009 20:16:17	Oh, yeah... role-playing can be fun and engrossing. It can also bring out the worst in people. There are some who crave attention and will use the RP format to use their captive audience for it. There are also others who are naturally shy or reserved who may wish to open up more, living out those fantasies that they'd never get the nerve to enact for real. Sometimes this can work well; if the rest of the group and the attention hog are working to the same end, this can often be very entertaining. If the hog is problematic, though, and doesn't understand when too much is too much, this is where games stop being fun and become tedious. This is a problem faster when one player is working at cross purposes to the others; that's not to say characters must be friendly, but when the players do not at all compromise on action choices to keep a game moving, this can grind a group right to a halt.
#5 Hocus-Smokus Feb 01, 2009 20:23:16	Oh, yeah... role-playing can be fun and engrossing. It can also bring out the worst in people. There are some who crave attention and will use the RP format to use their captive audience for it. There are also others who are naturally shy or reserved who may wish to open up more, living out those fantasies that they'd never get the nerve to enact for real. Sometimes this can work well; if the rest of the group and the attention hog are working to the same end, this can often be very entertaining. If the hog is problematic, though, and doesn't understand when too much is too much, this is where games stop being fun and become tedious. This is a problem faster when one player is working at cross purposes to the others; that's not to say characters must be friendly, but when the players do not at all compromise on action choices to keep a game moving, this can grind a group right to a halt. Very wise words, canamrock. Since I started DMing for the RPGA, I've had to make groups out of some very unlikely players. Fortunately, most of them have worked out well. Some of the younger players tend to want to hog the spotlight a bit (in my experience), and I've had to rope them in. Usually, the group maintains itself with little need for my intervention. Usually, a simple, "hey man...dial it back a bit, eh?" from another player (and a nod of approval from myself) is enough for the spotlight-hogs. For the super-shy players, most of the other players are very happy to help them out. Forcing the attention on them is not ever a great idea, but simply asking for suggestions is a great way to get them to open up a little. The more they interact, the easier it becomes for them over time.
#6 Rant_Casey Feb 02, 2009 9:50:42	Hocus-Smokus, in my experience with RPGA, there are other extremes: Players Terrified of role playing because it has no place in RPGA games. It's perhaps a flaw of the format, but due to the desire to accomplish the most in an alloted time block, and the lack of RP rewards (oddly!), RPGA enthusiasts are often the worst roleplayers in the room... and they benefit the most from it. I'd like to see RPGA reward roleplay more, with mechanical rewards. It's difficult to accomplish, perhaps, but as it stands, roleplaying is actually a liability for RPGA games - and that should never be the case.
#7 Hocus-Smokus Feb 02, 2009 10:14:45	Hocus-Smokus, in my experience with RPGA, there are other extremes: Players Terrified of role playing because it has no place in RPGA games. It's perhaps a flaw of the format, but due to the desire to accomplish the most in an alloted time block, and the lack of RP rewards (oddly!), RPGA enthusiasts are often the worst roleplayers in the room... and they benefit the most from it. I'd like to see RPGA reward roleplay more, with mechanical rewards. It's difficult to accomplish, perhaps, but as it stands, roleplaying is actually a liability for RPGA games - and that should never be the case. Keep in mind that there is a difference between bad roleplayers, and roleplayers forfeiting RP in lieu of accomplishing a lot in a short amount of time. Many RPGA members that I DM for I also know personally, and they are great RPers...but like you said, there are severe time restraints in RPGA games, so quite a bit of RP has to be skimmed aside in order to complete the adventure at hand. I feel bad about that, because I love long-winded, all RP sessions with little combat (and away from the RPGA scene that's what we do), but you work with what you've got. If all you have is 4 hours, there simply is no time for excessive RP. That doesn't make RPGA players bad RPers...just RPers with little time for RP. I do, however, agree with you about seeing RP rewards in RPGA games...I'm more than happy to extend a game for however long it needs in order to accommodate RP.
#8 Rant_Casey Feb 02, 2009 12:03:15	Hocus-Smokus, I definitely agree that there are RPers in the RPGA, but at present, the format seems to offer little reward, and in fact, hinders them. I think this is due to the structure of the modules, and the way they're currently ran. In a nutshell, you can RP, but there's nothing you can do to 'avoid' a pre-set encounter, to my knowledge. If that does happen, it lessens the rewards. I would think an ideal solution would be that an RP or non-combat solution (talking your way out of something, sneaking past something, etc.) should give you XP just an encounter does, and allow the players to move on the with module, rather than forcing them to still go through the battle. Making them go through all the battles, regardless of their efforts to circumvent straight-up brawls, means that - from an RPGA standpoint - RP can seem like a waste of time. It bothers me, when roleplayers get dirty looks, and powergamers who want to run from battle to battle are praised. It's currently the RPGA way, but it doesn't have to be. I'm glad some RPGA GMs feel the same, Hocus.
#9 Hocus-Smokus Feb 02, 2009 12:08:01	Hocus-Smokus, I definitely agree that there are RPers in the RPGA, but at present, the format seems to offer little reward, and in fact, hinders them. I think this is due to the structure of the modules, and the way they're currently ran. In a nutshell, you can RP, but there's nothing you can do to 'avoid' a pre-set encounter, to my knowledge. If that does happen, it lessens the rewards. I would think an ideal solution would be that an RP or non-combat solution (talking your way out of something, sneaking past something, etc.) should give you XP just an encounter does, and allow the players to move on the with module, rather than forcing them to still go through the battle. Making them go through all the battles, regardless of their efforts to circumvent straight-up brawls, means that - from an RPGA standpoint - RP can seem like a waste of time. It bothers me, when roleplayers get dirty looks, and powergamers who want to run from battle to battle are praised. It's currently the RPGA way, but it doesn't have to be. I'm glad some RPGA GMs feel the same, Hocus. I always liked to think that the RPGA almost set the standard for D&D play. However...I have to agree with you. RP is almost a waste of time in the RPGA. You CAN talk/sneak your way around an encounter, but XP in the RPGA prohibits rewarding the players for doing so, and simply slows things down. Fortunately, most players at RPGA events are aware of how it is, and try to do their best to maintain a swift flow of adventures. I would love to see some changes made in sanctioned events that would allow for more RP, and a reward system for those that do. After all...it is the Role-Playing Game Association...not the Battle-Only Association.
#10 JayM Feb 02, 2009 13:49:54	I always liked to think that the RPGA almost set the standard for D&D play. You would think that, but it isn't the case. The RPGA is actually an oddball situation in my experience. I've never seen a non-RPGA game that runs like RPGA ones. So here in the next session I try to step back (my guy plays a warlock with 18 Cha and ranks in all interactive skills) and let other players take the spotlight. While we would form skill/role-play challenges and push other people in the spotlight, they'd freeze up and be like "uh uh uh". So before the DM would say, "While you stand there gawking at the blah blah blah in front of you it begins to blah blah blah" I'd jump in there with my assistant (the guy I get along with) and be like, "Well we are the soldiers in the name of blah blah blah....". That is actually poor play on the part of the DM. In that sort of situation the DM should give the player time to think. Not everybody can do that sort of thing on the cuff. Jay
#11 nom Feb 02, 2009 16:07:36	That is actually poor play on the part of the DM. In that sort of situation the DM should give the player time to think. Not everybody can do that sort of thing on the cuff. I'd go a step further. The DM should be active, but in a way that helps the player, not penalises him/her for lack of RP confidence. DM: what are you trying to achieve? P: ... DM: are you pretending to be a soldier, or do you want to appeal to his vanity? P: ... DM: OK, try some words to that effect. P: (comes out with something vaguely appropriate) DM: (maybe makes a roll) He thinks about this for a moment, then responds ... . Remember that most people's exposure to dialogue is TV, movies and books. In those media, the author has time to think about what is being said and to revise it several times until it feels natural and spontaneous (yes, the contrast was deliberate). As a result, most people's attempts at spontaneous roleplay come off feeling very forced. For myself, I'd much rather RP dialogue via a text medium (message board, even chat room). The much slower response time helps me formulate natural sounding responses and to stay in character better. I reckon the hardest characters to RP are "normal" ones. Heavily introverted characters or ones not interested in dialogue don't interact much, or just talk in grunts or whatever. Show-stealers tend to be a little stereotyped and operate by forcing whatever the situation to their own agenda. But when you're playing as a normal character, and thus reacting as much as acting, it's quite difficult to respond in-character on the fly. Another thought: often 3rd party roleplay (he says, she says, even I say) with focus on intent, not words, is easiest for less confident players. For the most part, that's how we do indirect interactions in our everyday lives, too. You say "go and ask the shopkeeper for a roast chicken" and trust the person running the errand (the "actor") to put it in their own words, not "say to the shopkeeper, 'may I buy a roast chicken'". In an RPG, the player is the intent, and the character is the actor, so it's OK for the group to assume the PC finds the right words, just like they assume the PC knows how to find the giant's weak spot with their sword or cast a spell.
#12 heathan_v20 Feb 02, 2009 18:51:02	Well I have to say, I feel like the DM should push the pace. For example: Players are standing before a lord, and he says to them, "So what have you come here for?" Everything is quiet for a few...then one of the players casually steps up. That is acceptible wait, but in our main two scenarios we where rushing bad guys and putting them on the spot so it was like this. Players rush over the hill standing before the goblin hordes who yell out, "Who are you!?!" The players stand there and go..."uhhhhh" This is not acceptible, the DM should be like bam here they come guys and our oppurtunity to be like, "We have annihilated your war party and we have come to take over this tribe of bandits, kneel before us!" is taken.
#13 nom Feb 02, 2009 23:23:50	Again, you're punishing the players for inexperience. Mostly, this doesn't build experience, it just means they stop even bothering to try (since it never works anyway). What the DM (particularly) needs to remember is that he (or she) has already seen both sides of the story. The players have not. Which means they are suprised and the DM isn't. And this is a fantasy. You aren't supposed to meet a certain level of impromptu acting ability before you're allowed to play. The natural human response in an unfamiliar situation is to panic. It takes practice and training to channel that response into something positive instead. There are several ways of achieving this, but punishing the players every time they fail is a particularly poor way, especially when we're talking in the context of a recreational activity.
#14 silenna Feb 03, 2009 7:57:19	Nom said it well. I understand and respect your wish for a faster pace, Heathan_v20, but I think it will turn out for the best in the long run if you keep your patience for a few more sessions. Yes, it sounds great - no, it feels great! - to have the dialogue practically flying between characters (PCs and NPCs), but while you are already comfortable with and even expecting this style of gaming, others don't possess or have not yet discovered their talent for it. While it may be perfectly acceptable to prod their characters to shake them out of inactivity (and it may be "realistic" to have their characters live with the consequences), sometimes it's best not to pressure them further while IG. Chances are they had ideas - two minutes after they needed them. If they freeze up, ask them and the DM after the session if they'd like to re-play that scene. It won't change that session, but especially for insecure players it can be worth a lot to "have said it", to know their thoughts haven't been stupid or wasted. Next time it will be easier for them to react in time or at least tell you what's the matter. Don't take this wrong, but when push comes to shove you have other groups where you enjoy gaming, while this situation could be "make-or-break" for that other player. I know it's odd when someone complains about "spotlight hogging" and then instead of being happy when it's their great moment freezes up, but when positive and negative exitement clash insecure people aren't very logical. Four years ago I was at exactly that point. I really wanted to roleplay, but I mistrusted my ideas, couldn't get the words out and doubted I would get any better at it. (And that wasn't even my first PC, just the first I played in a real group!) It nearly drove us all crazy. Luckily I had an experienced, patient DM and a great character I yearned to see played to her full potential, even while I feared that I couldn't do them justice. Turned out I could. :D I hope you can solve this problem together and the group can develop a style you all enjoy. EDIT: Whoops, I didn't mean to scare you guys and gals off...