So, the human rogue sneaks off to spy on some fishy character in town (miss game). We fight a number of goblins in a torcher chamber and find our rogue and one last surviving goblin. As I begin interogating the goblin, our rogue starts telling the lil green guy that "scalys can't be trusted. I grab the goblin pick him up and the thing pees on me. I'm upset and rage on the goblin. Our rogue then attacks me, blinding me with a barrage of daggers. game ends.
I think the racism bit got out of control. It was never funny to begin with, and caused problems before. I don't think the Dm sees a problem, and personally I think he thinks its funny, the fact that PCs or fighting and the characters racism.
So , in game, how does my dragonborn handle this situation?
Out of game what can I do, besides beat everyone up?
Talk to the player, outside of game, or at least away from the table. Explain to him that, you get the character is racist, but would like the player to tone it down a bit, in the interest of the game. Tell him you're not having fun. If he doesn't care, talk to your DM, and make sure the DM knows you're not having fun. If he still doesn't care, talk to the other dragonborn players, see if they share your sediments, and if they do, gang up on the rogue and kill him, and make sure you at least have fun doing that. If the player continues to make racist characters, continue to kill them until the DM understands why players not having fun is something he needs to be concerned about.
So , in game, how does my dragonborn handle this situation?
You, the other dragonborn, and any other members of the party kill the rogue or, if good aligned and feeling nice, knock him unconscious, strip him of most of his gear, bring him back around, and make it clear that if you ever see him again, he's toast. He attacked a party member earlier. He just did it again. He's obviously not with the party.
If he begs or pleads well, maybe give him another chance. If not, new character time.
Out of game what can I do, besides beat everyone up?
Talk to the player involved and explain where the line lies, that your character will not let someone attack a party member without just cause without there being some consequence.
I would not suggest killing the character but taking the rogues items and tying the rogue up would be fine. Drag the rogue around everywhere. When the rogue gets out of the rope then beat the rogue up and tie the rogue again or use shackles. Decide that because the rogue stabs every dragonborn he/she sees then say that you want to drag the rogue to all of the nearest towns to see if their are bounties to be collected. The person playing the rogue will of course be upset because he/she is unable to run around stabbing people.
A friend of mine would kill the rogue and argue that it was in self defense. I personally would make an agreement with the other dragonborn to always defend, help, rescue, and support each other. Also the dragonborn should always stick together. The next time the rogue picks a fight it will be a self defense fight that turns into a 3v1 beating.
I would not suggest killing the character but taking the rogues items and tying the rogue up would be fine. Drag the rogue around everywhere. When the rogue gets out of the rope then beat the rogue up and tie the rogue again or use shackles. Decide that because the rogue stabs every dragonborn he/she sees then say that you want to drag the rogue to all of the nearest towns to see if their are bounties to be collected. The person playing the rogue will of course be upset because he/she is unable to run around stabbing people.
Don't forget to beat the tar out of the rogue regularly while he's tied up. You don't want to have a tough fight on your hands when he does eventually get out.
1. Bar-fights are one thing. Friends come to blows all the time, especially is something is raising tensions. No one was seriously hurt, so no harm done. Played right (which I doubt this was), it could even bring the two characters closer together as they blow off steam on each other.
2. When the rogue backstabbed the dragonborn in the dungeon, that was a betrayal, and the rogue should not have live another minute. Turn on your allies in a danger-zone, and you're a dead man.
3. Even if you don't kill him, he is an obvious threat, and should be removed from the party, no second chances. Knock him out, strip him of valuables, and take him directly to the nearest authorities. If the authorities aren't likely to punish him, you give him a warning that the next time you see him, it's a death sentence. Fair warning, letting him live; honor is satisfied.
So, you have three African-Americans walking around, willingly, with a loyal and rabid member of the KKK. Does this make any sense?
The D-born should just abandon the racist, and the player will have to make another character ... because it was his decision to play a character that was a total ass. The should be informed, firmly but politely, that his next character needs to not be a sociopath.
Let's keep in mind that Dragonborn are naturally honorable, and so typically will not kill a weakened party member, no matter what he's done in the past. That said...
1. Bar-fights are one thing. Friends come to blows all the time, especially is something is raising tensions. No one was seriously hurt, so no harm done. Played right (which I doubt this was), it could even bring the two characters closer together as they blow off steam on each other.
Actually the whole scene played out well. We had come back from a hard fight. the other Dragonborn and the rogue were in the bar. the rogue made a comment on how nasty dragonborn were. the other dragonnborn player said that's enough and proceeded to pummel the rogue, which got everyone in the bar arrested2. When the rogue backstabbed the dragonborn in the dungeon, that was a betrayal, and the rogue should not have live another minute. Turn on your allies in a danger-zone, and you're a dead man.
Dm stopped the game and left it hanging for the next two weeks. But we play that campaign next week Monday.
...,
thanks for the advice.
In game, I will play it like there most be a communication problem between my character Roorgar and Steve the human rogue. That problem as far as Rorgarr is concerned, is the little goblin. While blinded I will yell at the rogue Steve "Choose your friends and allies wisely, Steve" .So my first move, when I can see is to attack the goblin that ****** on my character. While blinded I will yell at the rogue Steve "Choose your friends and allies wisely, Steve". If he tries to stop me by trying to block my blow and can convince me I should keep the little goblin, then they live. If i get attacked again by the rogue, then it's on. I plan to take Steve alive and hang him in Winterhaven for being a Orcus cultist traitor.
The player in question is new to table top RPGs, so I don't think he understands what he is doing will in the end disrupt the game. Outside of the game, I have the loyalty of the other players. I'm pretty sure if the rogue attacks me, the rest of the party has my back and Steve the rogue is dead. Hopefully we will avoid this, but something tells me he, as a player is looking for this in game confrontation. I think our Dm is encourging him for his own reasons. Like he enjoys watching the in game bickering. But in the end all that will cause resentment a consternation within the gaming group.
This being said I have fostered a racial conflict between my Dragonborn and Tiefling characters in my campaign. However it is a two way conflict and they are willing to work with each other for the common good. I would never let my players betray the group to an enemy without severe consequences. Funny banter is one thing attacking a party member is something else and should be handled swiftly.
Unless it's part of the story, I don't put racism in my games. Warforged, drow, and goblins, are the only ones that come to mind at the moment, but it's never been for the sake of stirring things up within the party. It's either been logical (goblins were raiding the town recently, so who wants to be friendly to any goblin that wanders into town? You don't need much reason to suspect a drow of anything, and warforged are too misunderstood by many, is it alive or is it a machine of some sort?) or a part of the plot.
and i personally never allow racism without due cause, like a warband of humans came and slaughtered a whole village of elves. i could see one of the survivors nuturing a racial hatred of humans and if hes playing a racist character just to be a jerk he shouldnt be allowed to play your DM shouldnt be allowing this sort of thing to continue.
The Book of Vile Darkness says that betrayal is one of the worst evil acts
....
In Dante's Inferno the worst punishments in hell were reserved for betrayers.
The rogue needs to act more along the lines of distrust rather than betrayal of else the rogue needs to be gotten rid of.
I once played a racist character but it was more of a distrust thing rather than a stabbing people in back issue. I was a half-orc barbarian that did not like orc, wouldn't trust an elf, and would rather shake an elves hand than speak with a dwarf. The character would not attack members of these races but instead just try and avoid them.
The rogue needs to act more along the lines of distrust rather than betrayal of else the rogue needs to be gotten rid of.
i agree completely frank, but i dont think he will change for our freind here i think he is doing it simply cuz he can and they are letting it happen, they need to make it "painfully" clear that his behavior wont be tolerated
In Dante's Inferno the worst punishments in hell were reserved for betrayers.
Just look at what happened to the ultimate betrayers
I would not suggest killing the character but taking the rogues items and tying the rogue up would be fine. Drag the rogue around everywhere. When the rogue gets out of the rope then beat the rogue up and tie the rogue again or use shackles. Decide that because the rogue stabs every dragonborn he/she sees then say that you want to drag the rogue to all of the nearest towns to see if their are bounties to be collected. The person playing the rogue will of course be upset because he/she is unable to run around stabbing people.
This.
This is what I immediately thought of when I read the thread. Tie the rogue up (preferably in shackles), and drag him around everywhere. Feed him, give him medical care, allow him to live as a healthly prisoner. Never let him go. Tell other's he's a criminal to the dragonborn, and they're taking him back to their home village (even though that may be another few years).
The Warlord in my party is very racist against kobolds and goblins...because he was a caravan commander in his early career, and was constantly being assaulted by large masses of both, which has gotten.....old.
I can definately see that. We once had a character who worshipped the god of war. First session, he killed some poor chap in a bar "to incite a battle." We kicked the character out that session, and told the player to make something new. We would not adventure with someone who kills/murders others on a whim.
On the other hand, racism can be played out efectively, without damaging the game. I've got a warlord who's racist to eladrin. He doesn't let it show, because he believes that doing so would damage his repuation as an officer in the king's army. He does what he can to keep in under control, he doesn't want anyone knowing that he hates them.
"Because they're our PCs" is not a valid reason as to why a group sticks together. "Because it's what my character would do" is not a valid reason to be a jerk. It is the players' responsibility to make their characters want to stick together. If one character is a problem, they should be kicked out, and the player will have to roll a new character, just like if their character died and wasn't raised.
I've encountered this phenomenon in games I've played in, and in each case the offending player was mature enough to realize their character didn't 'fit' with the group, and had that character leave. They then rolled up a new character. Obviously your rogue's player isn't that mature, so he has to be kicked out instead. It'll be a lesson to the player to not be a jerk through his character.
Personally, I've played a racist character myself. She was a human whose mother was killed (among other things) by half-elves, so she hated half-elves and distrusted elves. When we encountered half-elf npcs, she simply wouldn't speak with them, to the point where she would refuse her own payment for a mission because a half-elf had touched the coins. But she would never openly attack a friendly half-elf npc, because she had more willpower than a 5-year-old, unlike your rogue friend.
We had an elf in our party. I dealt with this by not speaking to him at first, and always muttering to myself about his foul-ups. However, that elf later saved my character's life, and she grudgingly changed her viewpoint. By the time we stopped playing that campaign, the two of them had become friends.
Your three dragonborn have likely saved this rogue's skin countless times, and yet he still treats them like dirt. This isn't realistic, and it isn't fair to the group. Kick him out. If the player doesn't like it, then kick HIM out for draining fun from the game.
I mean.. seriously... come on now! You play a MONSTER, clearly, definatively, totally, 100% without question a MONSTER as large, scary, scaly and monsterous as you have available to you. Something with that is 7' tall with razor sharp claws, cold blood, reptillian stink and a large crocodillian mouth filled with tiny dagger-like teeth that can belch fire (or whatever element you choose) and murder half a room of civillians in under six seconds. Giant, creepy, destructive and REALLY should be some sort of monolithic evil race you fight in paragon level.
Out of all the options in the PHB, the majority of your group chose to go with the evil-looking monsters. Now, if you CHOOSE to play a monster then you SHOULD be treated like a monster, should you not? NPCs should NOT trust you, people should NOT be happy that you come to their town, people should NOT be comfortable in the same room with you, people SHOULD be saying mean and nasty things under their breath, people SHOULD be quick to blame you when things go wrong, people SHOULD flee from you and shut you out of their homes and refuse to do business with you... this is the role, out of ALL the roles you had available to you, that YOU chose. Understand?
Nobody made you choose to a monster. That was your choice. And what, WHAT, pray tell.. is the point of playing a monster if you don't take on the story role of the monster?
HOWEVER, with all that said... it is the DM's job to do this to you. The DM should be the one who keeps in mind that the NPCs are looking at this giant armored-covered reptillian beast that could slaughtered everyone in the marketplace if it so much as belches at the wrong time or easily scoop up a child and crush them to death with a single hand. That's the DM's job and the DM should run the NPCs accordingly. The NPCs are the ones that should be unfriendly and passive-aggressive and quick to gang up on the Dragonborn (for their own safety!). That is NOT the PCs job. The PCs should not be aggressive towards the Dragonborn, preferably the non-Dragonborn PC should be the person these monsters can turn to in order to for compassion and to help buffer those who would slam every door in their face.
Nothing good can come from a PC in the group who is anti-Dragonborn to begin with. You should ask the player why they chose to play an anti-Dragonborn PC, what exactly is going on there. It probably is best to end the fight with the Rogue being killed and next time have the player play a Tiefling or Orc or something so they are on the same side of the fence and then the DM can and SHOULD have the NPCs take on the role of picking on you all for being monsters.
Ended up the belt turned him into a her. One of the other characters was playing a jester that continued to make jokes at my characters expense. My character ended up warning the jester to stop it. He didn't and I killed him. The player's next character was much more managable.
The proper response of someone making fun of you is to cut their head off?...
Just kill the rogue and have the player make a new character. I did this once in 2nd ed. I was playing some kind of ninja character from the complete ninja book that fought with a katana. During one of our downtimes we were splitting up treasure and my character decided to try on his brand new belt. Ended up the belt turned him into a her. One of the other characters was playing a jester that continued to make jokes at my characters expense. My character ended up warning the jester to stop it. He didn't and I killed him. The player's next character was much more managable.
I'm going to just role play my pc and kill Steve. I see now that is what the player wants.
And hiding bodies was sooooo much easier back then!
The DM wants conflict? He'll get it.
OP... part of me is tempted to say you deserve it in part FOR PLAYING A GROUP OF GIANT DRAGONPEOPLE.
I mean.. seriously... come on now! You play a MONSTER, clearly, definatively, totally, 100% without question a MONSTER as large, scary, scaly and monsterous as you have available to you. Something with that is 7' tall with razor sharp claws, cold blood, reptillian stink and a large crocodillian mouth filled with tiny dagger-like teeth that can belch fire (or whatever element you choose) and murder half a room of civillians in under six seconds. Giant, creepy, destructive and REALLY should be some sort of monolithic evil race you fight in paragon level.
Out of all the options in the PHB, the majority of your group chose to go with the evil-looking monsters. Now, if you CHOOSE to play a monster then you SHOULD be treated like a monster, should you not? NPCs should NOT trust you, people should NOT be happy that you come to their town, people should NOT be comfortable in the same room with you, people SHOULD be saying mean and nasty things under their breath, people SHOULD be quick to blame you when things go wrong, people SHOULD flee from you and shut you out of their homes and refuse to do business with you... this is the role, out of ALL the roles you had available to you, that YOU chose. Understand?
Nobody made you choose to a monster. That was your choice. And what, WHAT, pray tell.. is the point of playing a monster if you don't take on the story role of the monster?
HOWEVER, with all that said... it is the DM's job to do this to you. The DM should be the one who keeps in mind that the NPCs are looking at this giant armored-covered reptillian beast that could slaughtered everyone in the marketplace if it so much as belches at the wrong time or easily scoop up a child and crush them to death with a single hand. That's the DM's job and the DM should run the NPCs accordingly. The NPCs are the ones that should be unfriendly and passive-aggressive and quick to gang up on the Dragonborn (for their own safety!). That is NOT the PCs job. The PCs should not be aggressive towards the Dragonborn, preferably the non-Dragonborn PC should be the person these monsters can turn to in order to for compassion and to help buffer those who would slam every door in their face.
Nothing good can come from a PC in the group who is anti-Dragonborn to begin with. You should ask the player why they chose to play an anti-Dragonborn PC, what exactly is going on there. It probably is best to end the fight with the Rogue being killed and next time have the player play a Tiefling or Orc or something so they are on the same side of the fence and then the DM can and SHOULD have the NPCs take on the role of picking on you all for being monsters.
The proper response of someone making fun of you is to cut their head off?...
Man that’s some major Dragonborn hatred. These may be your opinion and if you want to run a game with this more power to you. However saying that is what Dragonborn are in the main setting is pretty far off.
It would be in your best interests to read Ecology of the Dragonborn. It is in the Dragon achieves issue 365. Dragonborn are slightly taller than humans and tend to be more muscular however they are hardly some scary giants. They are also warm-blooded and nurse their young. They are described as one of the first races and tend to be wandering mercenaries. They would mostly be about as trusted as much as metallic dragons in most settings.
Its not too hard to have a world where Dragonborn are far more acceptable than say tieflings. As a matter of fact in my setting Dragonborn are far more accepted than tiefings and even elves for the most part just because they are more open and not as closeted.
I play a dragonborn fighter in a KotS campaign with 8 players. There are three dragonborn PCs. The party rogue, a human has been racist since the start of the game. This lead to a bar fight between his character and another dragonborn player. Where my character and the other dragonborn secured there release from the stockades.
So, the human rogue sneaks off to spy on some fishy character in town (miss game). We fight a number of goblins in a torcher chamber and find our rogue and one last surviving goblin. As I begin interogating the goblin, our rogue starts telling the lil green guy that "scalys can't be trusted. I grab the goblin pick him up and the thing pees on me. I'm upset and rage on the goblin. Our rogue then attacks me, blinding me with a barrage of daggers. game ends.
I think the racism bit got out of control. It was never funny to begin with, and caused problems before. I don't think the Dm sees a problem, and personally I think he thinks its funny, the fact that PCs or fighting and the characters racism.
So , in game, how does my dragonborn handle this situation?
Out of game what can I do, besides beat everyone up?
Racism is a normal part of the D&D world (and most of the classic fantasy it's based on, such as the Elves and Dwarfs dislike for one another in LotRs), but much like LotRs it's important the DM keep it under control enough for players to adventure together.
If you arn't comfortable with a PC Vs PC style of game you need to ask your DM to rule no PC on PC and/or have him/her tell the rogue to town it down a bit.
If he refuses or fails, you need to find a new group which is more in line with your style of play.
OP...
Either your baiting or you have some deep racial resentment scewing your perception of a obvious heroic fantasy people. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and call it baiting
...HOWEVER, with all that said... it is the DM's job to do this to you. The DM should be the one who keeps in mind that the NPCs are looking at this giant armored-covered reptillian beast that could slaughtered everyone in the marketplace if it so much as belches at the wrong time or easily scoop up a child and crush them to death with a single hand. That's the DM's job and the DM should run the NPCs accordingly. The NPCs are the ones that should be unfriendly and passive-aggressive and quick to gang up on the Dragonborn (for their own safety!).
Again I think a skewed perception due to some deep racial resentment. As the PHB obviously portrays the Dragonborn as a noble proud people. Either that or your baiting again. Some people are insulting online because they are to timid to speak up in real life. I just have to wonder?
Sorry
That is NOT the PCs job. The PCs should not be aggressive towards the Dragonborn, preferably the non-Dragonborn PC should be the person these monsters can turn to in order to for compassion and to help buffer those who would slam every door in their face.
Nothing good can come from a PC in the group who is anti-Dragonborn to begin with. You should ask the player why they chose to play an anti-Dragonborn PC, what exactly is going on there.
Personally I had no problem with it.., at first. But when he is telling our one goblin captive "I'm not trustworthy.." while I'm trying to bribe the little guy, then attacks me making an escape, Man I have to wonder? Why would I not attack him and consider him a traitor. The in game racism has lead to my character distrusting the human rogue. But, out of game, is the player unaware of his actions or actually provocative? Would he be surprise dif I attacked his character? I do not know? BUt I think He dies.
It probably is best to end the fight with the Rogue being killed and next time have the player play a Tiefling or Orc or something so they are on the same side of the fence and then the DM can and SHOULD have the NPCs take on the role of picking on you all for being monsters.
5 out of the 8 characters in the group are human and have expressed no racial anymosity. So obvious racial stereotyping is not the norm in/ or out of our games. Yeaaah!!!!!:bounce:
Racism is a normal part of the D&D world (and most of the classic fantasy it's based on, such as the Elves and Dwarfs dislike for one another in LotRs), but much like LotRs it's important the DM keep it under control enough for players to adventure together.
If you arn't comfortable with a PC Vs PC style of game you need to ask your DM to rule no PC on PC and/or have him/her tell the rogue to town it down a bit.
If he refuses or fails, you need to find a new group which is more in line with your style of play.
I wasn't until it led to in game PC v. PC violence. That kind of infighting, whether racial motivated or otherwise, is just not fun for me. I can deal with the racial vibe and tension in game. I think the outcome of it could be disatrious if it leads to one PC death due to another PC. The player is also new to the group, so I do not know if this is how he enjoys the game. I have talked to the DM and he thinks the infighting is funny. New DM though. We'll see what happens on Monday.
between my character Roorgar and Steve the human rogue
Forget the racism, the character should be killed for being named "Steve" :evillaugh
Talk about disrupting the illusion of being in a fantasy world and wrecking everyone's fun :raincloud
No offense is intended to real people named Steve. Its a perfectly good name in the real world. But if you were suddenly transported to a fantasy world, please rename yourself Stevelf, or Stevorr, or Lord Nastybiterpants or something else. Much appreciated.
Srrsly tho, players who actively try to make other players uncomfortable with their "role-playing" are just anti-social bullies, and probably still wet the bed at night
Avoid at all costs 
Out of game: Why would you have to beat people up for in-game actions?
In game: Eat the rogue.
Out of game: Why would you have to beat people up for in-game actions?
I need a reason to beat people up?
Seriously I have no need or desire to beat anyone up. I made that statement as an exageration of my uneasyness with the situation. Mainly feeling that in game my character should kill the rogue. Out of game, I am not sure if killing the rogue would surprise the guy playing the rogue and lead to harsh feellings, or is he doing this because he wants the in game pvp conflict? He is new to roleplaying, so playing like this is new to him. In my experience when your PC is obnoxious and the rogue has been, to the other PCs you end up with a game falling apart. The DM is tickled pink about the in game fight ing over the goblin. But he is also new to Dming and tends to enjoy being spitefull to PCs for players out of game action.
I need a reason to beat people up?
Seriously I have no need or desire to beat anyone up. I made that statement as an exageration of my uneasyness with the situation. Mainly feeling that in game my character should kill the rogue. Out of game, I am not sure if killing the rogue would surprise the guy playing the rogue and lead to harsh feellings, or is he doing this because he wants the in game pvp conflict? He is new to roleplaying, so playing like this is new to him. In my experience when your PC is obnoxious and the rogue has been, to the other PCs you end up with a game falling apart. The DM is tickled pink about the in game fight ing over the goblin. But he is also new to Dming and tends to enjoy being spitefull to PCs for players out of game action.
Your most recent comment rings true with my gut feeling about the situation. A skilled roleplayer can play a racist character without his racism intefering with the game.
The player should recognize that his roleplaying decisions are obstructing the flow of the game.
.... A skilled roleplayer can play a racist character without his racism intefering with the game.
The player should recognize that his roleplaying decisions are obstructing the flow of the game.
Correct a skilled and an experienced player would know when the in game racism was taken to far. The guy has taken every opportunity to disparage dragonborne and really hasn't said anything to make the dragonborn in the game like the character. So why should my character not attack his when he undermines the pcs credability with a prisoner then attack and trues to escape. Dwarves stink, Elves are panzies and dragonborn are scaley I've played through all kinds of in game racism. But to be honest, this player has been obnoxious about the racism.
Correct a skilled and an experienced player would know when the in game racism was taken to far. The guy has taken every opportunity to disparage dragonborne and really hasn't said anything to make the dragonborn in the game like the character. So why should my character not attack his when he undermines the pcs credability with a prisoner then attack and trues to escape. Dwarves stink, Elves are panzies and dragonborn are scaley I've played through all kinds of in game racism. But to be honest, this player has been obnoxious about the racism.
What I would do is use a bit of tough DM love. The next time the character starts talking smack about Dragonborn, it should be within earshot of some really tough Dragonborn NPCs that don't take too kindly to his words. They can shadow him and beat the crap out of him when he leaves town. Muahaha
Or you can be more creative.
The DM is tickled pink about the in game fight ing over the goblin. But he is also new to Dming and tends to enjoy being spitefull to PCs for players out of game action.
At that point, I think you should definitely settle the issue nonviolently. Nothing will tick him off more than the three Dragonborn quietly and politely parting ways with the troublemaker.
1) Get a non-dragonborn PC or valuable NPC to tell his Character to nock it off. By "minding their own business" other party members are condoning his actions. Or displaying cowardice in not standing up to him.
2) Conspire to get the entire party into serious trouble. So much trouble in fact that he can rely on no one but his fellow party members.
If you dig westerns Young Guns has a very similar scenario going on and the two recommendations in action. It also gives at least one reason why two people with such animosity can coexist even becoming friends.
I see two solutions that are as devious as can be, without resorting to inter party bloodshed. Though with one your scales may seem to tarnish a bit.
1) Get a non-dragonborn PC or valuable NPC to tell his Character to nock it off. By "minding their own business" other party members are condoning his actions. Or displaying cowardice in not standing up to him.
2) Conspire to get the entire party into serious trouble. So much trouble in fact that he can rely on no one but his fellow party members.
If you dig westerns Young Guns has a very similar scenario going on and the two recommendations in action. It also gives at least one reason why two people with such animosity can coexist even becoming friends.
What I would do is use a bit of tough DM love. The next time the character starts talking smack about Dragonborn, it should be within earshot of some really tough Dragonborn NPCs that don't take too kindly to his words. They can shadow him and beat the crap out of him when he leaves town. Muahaha
Or you can be more creative.
I think it needs to be brought back up:
The DM thinks this is funny. He's not going to interefere. He won't step in and make the player playing the racist character realize the error of his ways. That' the whole problem: the character is racist and causing in-party problems, and the DM is finding the whole situation amusing.
I think it needs to be brought back up:
The DM thinks this is funny. He's not going to interefere. He won't step in and make the player playing the racist character realize the error of his ways. That' the whole problem: the character is racist and causing in-party problems, and the DM is finding the whole situation amusing.
Oh, you are completely right. *sigh* I should read more attentively. Thank you for pointing that out, mgshamster. Reviewing the situation at hand, I admit it is more difficult to handle since sirkaikillah doesn't have the DM's power.
Sirkaikillah, I therefore suggest the following:
1) In your party of eight players, associate more closely with the other six characters.
2) When the Dragonborn have to deal with the Rogue, you should accept that the two characters don't like eachother. You can do little things like not mark any enemies for the Rogue, don't help him flank, etc.
Sons of Sauron (!) too.
First off you have a DM who thinks that inter-party rivalry is hilarious. This is not a good thing at all. If he thinks it's funny for the groups game to go down the toilet just because he likes watching people fight and bicker in real life, then this guy needs to stop running the game for you. You need someone who is a little more mature in the drivers seat, and who will fairly adjudicate the game for you all.
Secondly, the person playing the character "Steve the Rogue", (Lord that sounds lame), needs to get his head out of his own ass and realize that he's being a bit of a jerk about this whole thing. Party arguments are one thing. Bar fights are another. But blatantly attacking a fellow party member means one of two things. You are either nucking futs, and your character needs to be put down. Or you are doing this because you think it's funny to try and destroy everyone's good time and need to be talked to about leaving the group.
Finally, what are the other players doing just standing by and not saying anything? Despite what their characters think about the whole thing, as fellow players seated at the table with you they should see how distracting this is to the game and should grow a set and speak up about their own displeasure.
In the end it comes down to this. If the DM will not change his ways, and if the player will not stop his actions and nobody else is willing to do anything about this, then perhaps it's time to find yourself a new group.
Good luck.
I've experienced racism, witnessed racism, and as far as games go it doesn't belong.
This isn't a game about the real world. It's a game about a fantasy world where dragonborn are common place and accepted as a proud and noble race. Just because a person looks different, doesn't mean the person should be treated differently.
In the real world it is definitely a possibility of racism towards a species of humanoid dragons. But that's the real world. This is fantasy.
So...
Is this your idea of how a fantasy world should be?
OP... part of me is tempted to say you deserve it in part FOR PLAYING A GROUP OF GIANT DRAGONPEOPLE.
I mean.. seriously... come on now! You play a MONSTER, clearly, definatively, totally, 100% without question a MONSTER as large, scary, scaly and monsterous as you have available to you. Something with that is 7' tall with razor sharp claws, cold blood, reptillian stink and a large crocodillian mouth filled with tiny dagger-like teeth that can belch fire (or whatever element you choose) and murder half a room of civillians in under six seconds. Giant, creepy, destructive and REALLY should be some sort of monolithic evil race you fight in paragon level.
Out of all the options in the PHB, the majority of your group chose to go with the evil-looking monsters. Now, if you CHOOSE to play a monster then you SHOULD be treated like a monster, should you not? NPCs should NOT trust you, people should NOT be happy that you come to their town, people should NOT be comfortable in the same room with you, people SHOULD be saying mean and nasty things under their breath, people SHOULD be quick to blame you when things go wrong, people SHOULD flee from you and shut you out of their homes and refuse to do business with you... this is the role, out of ALL the roles you had available to you, that YOU chose. Understand?
Nobody made you choose to a monster. That was your choice. And what, WHAT, pray tell.. is the point of playing a monster if you don't take on the story role of the monster?
HOWEVER, with all that said... it is the DM's job to do this to you. The DM should be the one who keeps in mind that the NPCs are looking at this giant armored-covered reptillian beast that could slaughtered everyone in the marketplace if it so much as belches at the wrong time or easily scoop up a child and crush them to death with a single hand. That's the DM's job and the DM should run the NPCs accordingly. The NPCs are the ones that should be unfriendly and passive-aggressive and quick to gang up on the Dragonborn (for their own safety!). That is NOT the PCs job. The PCs should not be aggressive towards the Dragonborn, preferably the non-Dragonborn PC should be the person these monsters can turn to in order to for compassion and to help buffer those who would slam every door in their face.
Nothing good can come from a PC in the group who is anti-Dragonborn to begin with. You should ask the player why they chose to play an anti-Dragonborn PC, what exactly is going on there. It probably is best to end the fight with the Rogue being killed and next time have the player play a Tiefling or Orc or something so they are on the same side of the fence and then the DM can and SHOULD have the NPCs take on the role of picking on you all for being monsters.
The proper response of someone making fun of you is to cut their head off?...
**
Also note that I understand racial undertones are often present in most worlds of fantasy, not every world is perfect. But to DECLARE!!!!!!!!
... that it SHOULD be the way you describe it. and that it is NOT possible to have a world where dragonborn can be respected, or at the very least tolerated...
...
....well, it's just plain sad to see such an ignorant perspective on life.
... Im finished by the way.
Honestly, the post below makes my brain hurt and sickens me to think that someone could have such a skewed perception of reality as to think along the lines of "If it looks different, it should be treated differently", Now I know this is practically inviting a reactive comment against. But this is my opinion and my feelings on the matter and I will not reply any further on this subject once I am finished.
I've experienced racism, witnessed racism, and as far as games go it doesn't belong.
This isn't a game about the real world. It's a game about a fantasy world where dragonborn are common place and accepted as a proud and noble race. Just because a person looks different, doesn't mean the person should be treated differently.
In the real world it is definitely a possibility of racism towards a species of humanoid dragons. But that's the real world. This is fantasy.
So...
Is this your idea of how a fantasy world should be?
**
Also note that I understand racial undertones are often present in most worlds of fantasy, not every world is perfect. But to DECLARE!!!!!!!!
... that it SHOULD be the way you describe it. and that it is NOT possible to have a world where dragonborn can be respected, or at the very least tolerated...
...
....well, it's just plain sad to see such an ignorant perspective on life.
... Im finished by the way.
In all seriousness though, mikroprone is correct.
Forget the racism, the character should be killed for being named "Steve" :evillaugh
Talk about disrupting the illusion of being in a fantasy world and wrecking everyone's fun :raincloud
No offense is intended to real people named Steve. Its a perfectly good name in the real world. But if you were suddenly transported to a fantasy world, please rename yourself Stevelf, or Stevorr, or Lord Nastybiterpants or something else. Much appreciated.
Srrsly tho, players who actively try to make other players uncomfortable with their "role-playing" are just anti-social bullies, and probably still wet the bed at night
I don't think it disrupts the illusion of fantasy at all. Maybe a name like "Bob" but "Steve" is fine for a fantasy setting for a human character, in my humble opinion.
In my game there are two humans, named Christopher St. Daniels (a two-blade ranger) and Beatrix (a great weapon fighter), which I think are very heroic names, and fitting for human characters. Then there's our warlock tiefling named Virus, which is also very fitting for a tiefling.
I think it's fine for humans to use real-world names because, well, they're humans. It's fitting. Sure, "John" wouldn't fit for an elf, but if one of my players wants to play a human warlord named Johnathan LaCross, I'd allow it.
Didn't Robin (Hood) have a friend named (Big) John?
I have to side with mikropone. Dragonborn are NOT monsters. Gnomes are monsters! AHAHAHA! (Really makes you wonder what a "monster" is.)
In all seriousness though, mikroprone is correct.
Gnomes are monsters!
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/toon/20071219a
This could be usefull
Sons of Sauron (!) too.
That reminds me of the Coalition from Rifts.
OP... part of me is tempted to say you deserve it in part FOR PLAYING A GROUP OF GIANT DRAGONPEOPLE.
I mean.. seriously... come on now! You play a MONSTER, clearly, definatively, totally, 100% without question a MONSTER as large, scary, scaly and monsterous as you have available to you. Something with that is 7' tall with razor sharp claws, cold blood, reptillian stink and a large crocodillian mouth filled with tiny dagger-like teeth that can belch fire (or whatever element you choose) and murder half a room of civillians in under six seconds. Giant, creepy, destructive and REALLY should be some sort of monolithic evil race you fight in paragon level.
You sir, are a very good troll, or a player who i despise. Dragonborn are the most noble of the PHB races, and if you were playing in my game you would probably be re-rolling now.
You sir, are a very good troll, or a player who i despise. Dragonborn are the most noble of the PHB races, and if you were playing in my game you would probably be re-rolling now.
You're kinder than I. If he were in my game, he'd be out the door.
You're kinder than I. If he were in my game, he'd be out the door.
But I never said how many times he'd re-rolled before. :evillaugh
If I come face to face with two creatures, one being a half-dragon looking humanoid and the other being a half-devil looking humanoid, I think I am going to be more scared of the demonic guy. I think the dragonborn look neat. If I saw one for real life I would likely pester him/her with a lot of questions (at this point I would be quite happy I wouldn't care if the dragonborn burnt me to a crisp with its breath).
racism = teh suck.
/end geek talk
There are better ways to handle the game. As a DM, racism doesn't even come into the game.
/start geek talk
racism = teh suck.
/end geek talk
There are better ways to handle the game. As a DM, racism doesn't even come into the game.
Your beholders must be very very boring. Same for your elves for that matter.
Seriously, if you don't like this, play something else. You know, maybe a race that doesn't share bonuses with almost all class's main stats. Frankly, your lack of role playing is the real problem. You should have told the goblin "us greenies have to stick together right?" Instead you went for the direct approach and made 2 enemies.
Whats stopping you from being racist back?
Your beholders must be very very boring. Same for your elves for that matter.
Seriously, if you don't like this, play something else. You know, maybe a race that doesn't share bonuses with almost all class's main stats. Frankly, your lack of role playing is the real problem. You should have told the goblin "us greenies have to stick together right?" Instead you went for the direct approach and made 2 enemies.
Whats stopping you from being racist back?
#1: I never said I didn't like the game.
#2: my beholders are not boring, I have more imaginative ways of playing.
#3: Just because I don't like racism, doesn't mean I am wrong, many ways to play
#4: It's all in where your lines are drawn. I would no sooner allow racist attitudes any more then I would allow the forceful unwilling removal of a females "body use" (that's my attempt to not use the R word).
Give me a break. If someone doesn't play like you does not = wrong.
That was a quick snapshot into his mind, and there was no convincing him otherwise. (What about darkvision? "Eh, as the technological timeline advances, humans will develop night-vision goggles anyway." All together now...
:bangheadAnyway, to the point, elves and dwarves were his particular targets. He wouldn't shut up with the short jokes or the questions about the elf PC's sexuality. Every encounter had to include some stupid remark. His PC was a fighter (You want names? How's "Angus MacGilicutty"?) It started off as character flavoring, but I suppose our mistake was not curtailing him sooner. He took it as the green light to continue and escalate. It finally got to be too much for the other players, so I stopped the game and told him to knock it off. I told him that if was there to play the game, fine. If he was there to be a jerk, take a hike. He got so mad that he agreed to play the game only to declare that his character went insane and started killing everyone else in the party. Well, that doesn't work so well when everyone else is united. His character dead, the player actually left the room on the brink of tears. Call us heartless, but I pulled out a pregenerated NPC fighter and we continued the game just fine.
He got so mad that he agreed to play the game only to declare that his character went insane and started killing everyone else in the party. Well, that doesn't work so well when everyone else is united. His character dead, the player actually left the room on the brink of tears. Call us heartless, but I pulled out a pregenerated NPC fighter and we continued the game just fine.
This dude needs PSYCHIATRIC HELP. A checkup from the neck-up might have done him some good.
I had some issues with players (a particular player, to be exact) who used in-game racism as a way to honk off a player they had issues with. He always played a human and thought it was silly that anyone would want to play elves, dwarves, or "anything else that didn't exist". I think he was at our table because he was bored. He knew that such beings existed in fantasy, but he was of the opinion that you played these races because someone made you do it, or you lost a coin toss. Otherwise, why would someone not choose a human? Humans were naturally superior in every way.
That was a quick snapshot into his mind, and there was no convincing him otherwise. (What about darkvision? "Eh, as the technological timeline advances, humans will develop night-vision goggles anyway." All together now...
Anyway, to the point, elves and dwarves were his particular targets. He wouldn't shut up with the short jokes or the questions about the elf PC's sexuality. Every encounter had to include some stupid remark. His PC was a fighter (You want names? How's "Angus MacGilicutty"?) It started off as character flavoring, but I suppose our mistake was not curtailing him sooner. He took it as the green light to continue and escalate. It finally got to be too much for the other players, so I stopped the game and told him to knock it off. I told him that if was there to play the game, fine. If he was there to be a jerk, take a hike. He got so mad that he agreed to play the game only to declare that his character went insane and started killing everyone else in the party. Well, that doesn't work so well when everyone else is united. His character dead, the player actually left the room on the brink of tears. Call us heartless, but I pulled out a pregenerated NPC fighter and we continued the game just fine.
This sounds very familiar. Steve our rogue, has already caused a bar fight with another dragonborn in our party, by his constant racial badgering. What seems as a colorful character flaw, has gotten to the point where he is working against the group as a whole. Like telling the little green goblin not to trust my caracter when being interrogated. Then attacking another PC and trying to escape with our character. The way it went down, I am guessing the other humans in the group are going to back up the dragonborn. I'm guessing the guy playing Steve is going be killed by his adventuring group, and the player is not even going understand why and get upset. Oh well!
Oh and the DM thinks it's funny. This is his first DnD campaign. We have discussed our concerns with the DMs like of consideration. I for one missed much of 3e as a player. His game is the only chance I have to play 4e as a player. Because I have been the main Dm for the group for about six years, I come off as a jerk when I critic his Dming. So I need the others to step up and let him know that , as players they are not happy. But as things are I'm the only one with the personality to engage in conflict. Really people try to avoid conflict, I tend barrel through it. But in this instants I don't want to play the heavy hand. I want the other players to step up and voice there concerns about Dms lack of consideration.