Invisible Weapons - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Invisible Weapons

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Samloyal23
Mar 01, 2012 22:28:17 I was thinking about an episode of Mork & Mindy in which Mork had to fight a duel with an invisible sword. It was very hard to dodge but dropping it was real problem. What modifiers do you think apply when fighting with a weapon that can't be seen? I play 3E but in any edition I think some rules are needed for this...
#2
salla
Mar 02, 2012 4:14:28 Probably not big ones, really. You can still see the way the weapon-holder is swinging it, you can see his arm moving, how he's flicking his wrist and all that. Maybe he gets a +2 to attack you until he hits, then just a +1 since you then know how big/long his weapon is.
#3
Samloyal23
Mar 02, 2012 7:32:04 I'm thinking it reduces an opponent's max Dex bonus to AC by -2. It is simply harder to dodge a weapon you cannot see clearly...
#4
mellored
Mar 02, 2012 11:19:08 Combat advantage...

Not really any different then a rogue stabbing you in the back, or being attacked by something invisible.
#5
Unahim
Mar 02, 2012 11:27:04
Probably not big ones, really. You can still see the way the weapon-holder is swinging it, you can see his arm moving, how he's flicking his wrist and all that. Maybe he gets a +2 to attack you until he hits, then just a +1 since you then know how big/long his weapon is.

Have you ever tried sword-fighting :p I have, and even with the sword visible it's hard to spot cues like this in the thick of things.

I do agree with the +2 (or +2) thing though, that's not all that minor a buff if you consider a first level "guy who trained with weapons a lot" only gets a +1 by merrit of his training.
#6
Skewwed
Mar 02, 2012 11:56:40
I'm thinking it reduces an opponent's max Dex bonus to AC by -2. It is simply harder to dodge a weapon you cannot see clearly...

Maybe he gets a +2 to attack you until he hits, then just a +1 since you then know how big/long his weapon is.

..i likes both of these ideas..

#7
DoctorBadWolf
Mar 02, 2012 13:06:06
Probably not big ones, really. You can still see the way the weapon-holder is swinging it, you can see his arm moving, how he's flicking his wrist and all that. Maybe he gets a +2 to attack you until he hits, then just a +1 since you then know how big/long his weapon is.

Have you ever tried sword-fighting :p I have, and even with the sword visible it's hard to spot cues like this in the thick of things.

I do agree with the +2 (or +2) thing though, that's not all that minor a buff if you consider a first level "guy who trained with weapons a lot" only gets a +1 by merrit of his training.

This. Fighting in low light (a park at night, for instance) is a challenge, because you can't see the sword as well. An invisible weapon?

Also, the sword isn't held firmly in a straight grip. Even in the handshake grip, the sword is held so that there is just enough play that it moves in your hand when you swing it, giving attacks extra "snap", which basically means speed and damage.

It's also moving very fast.

Without some specialized training, a sword fight with two invisible swords would be rocket tag.
#8
Samloyal23
Mar 03, 2012 16:15:25

Without some specialized training, a sword fight with two invisible swords would be rocket tag.

Rocket what?
#9
salla
Mar 03, 2012 19:31:14

Without some specialized training, a sword fight with two invisible swords would be rocket tag.

Rocket what?

Rocket Tag. Basically, whoever fires (or in this case, swings) first, wins.

As far as 'have you tried swordfighting, I have' goes ... doesn't matter. I'm not a badass adventurer protagonist in a game that emulates heroic fiction, and neither are you, so our personal anecdotes and experiences aren't worth two squirts of urine.
#10
DoctorBadWolf
Mar 05, 2012 16:03:58

As far as 'have you tried swordfighting, I have' goes ... doesn't matter. I'm not a badass adventurer protagonist in a game that emulates heroic fiction, and neither are you, so our personal anecdotes and experiences aren't worth two squirts of urine.

Sure they are. An invisible sword would be a great advantage, no matter how skilled the user or opponent, unless the opponent has trained to counteract such an advantage.

Even Zorro would find a swordsman with an invisible blade to be a much greater than normal challenge. Such a thing would be an event worthy of being a major point of an entire story, not a footnote in one fight.
#11
Unahim
Mar 05, 2012 17:38:36

Without some specialized training, a sword fight with two invisible swords would be rocket tag.

Rocket what?

Rocket Tag. Basically, whoever fires (or in this case, swings) first, wins.

As far as 'have you tried swordfighting, I have' goes ... doesn't matter. I'm not a badass adventurer protagonist in a game that emulates heroic fiction, and neither are you, so our personal anecdotes and experiences aren't worth two squirts of urine.

It doesn't matter if the protagonists are better than me. A condition that negatively impacts my performance will negatively impact their performance as well, unless they have specific abilities or training to off-set that circumstance, but we're discussing a general casus here, and most characters will not have blind fight or other stuff useful for fighting things you can't see. Sure, the characters will still be better at fighting against an invisible sword than I am at fighting a visible one, but you know what they'd be even better at? Fighting against a visible sword themselves.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Samloyal23 Mar 01, 2012 22:28:17	I was thinking about an episode of Mork & Mindy in which Mork had to fight a duel with an invisible sword. It was very hard to dodge but dropping it was real problem. What modifiers do you think apply when fighting with a weapon that can't be seen? I play 3E but in any edition I think some rules are needed for this...
#2 salla Mar 02, 2012 4:14:28	Probably not big ones, really. You can still see the way the weapon-holder is swinging it, you can see his arm moving, how he's flicking his wrist and all that. Maybe he gets a +2 to attack you until he hits, then just a +1 since you then know how big/long his weapon is.
#3 Samloyal23 Mar 02, 2012 7:32:04	I'm thinking it reduces an opponent's max Dex bonus to AC by -2. It is simply harder to dodge a weapon you cannot see clearly...
#4 mellored Mar 02, 2012 11:19:08	Combat advantage... Not really any different then a rogue stabbing you in the back, or being attacked by something invisible.
#5 Unahim Mar 02, 2012 11:27:04	Probably not big ones, really. You can still see the way the weapon-holder is swinging it, you can see his arm moving, how he's flicking his wrist and all that. Maybe he gets a +2 to attack you until he hits, then just a +1 since you then know how big/long his weapon is. Have you ever tried sword-fighting :p I have, and even with the sword visible it's hard to spot cues like this in the thick of things. I do agree with the +2 (or +2) thing though, that's not all that minor a buff if you consider a first level "guy who trained with weapons a lot" only gets a +1 by merrit of his training.
#6 Skewwed Mar 02, 2012 11:56:40	I'm thinking it reduces an opponent's max Dex bonus to AC by -2. It is simply harder to dodge a weapon you cannot see clearly... Maybe he gets a +2 to attack you until he hits, then just a +1 since you then know how big/long his weapon is. ..i likes both of these ideas..
#7 DoctorBadWolf Mar 02, 2012 13:06:06	Probably not big ones, really. You can still see the way the weapon-holder is swinging it, you can see his arm moving, how he's flicking his wrist and all that. Maybe he gets a +2 to attack you until he hits, then just a +1 since you then know how big/long his weapon is. Have you ever tried sword-fighting :p I have, and even with the sword visible it's hard to spot cues like this in the thick of things. I do agree with the +2 (or +2) thing though, that's not all that minor a buff if you consider a first level "guy who trained with weapons a lot" only gets a +1 by merrit of his training. This. Fighting in low light (a park at night, for instance) is a challenge, because you can't see the sword as well. An invisible weapon? Also, the sword isn't held firmly in a straight grip. Even in the handshake grip, the sword is held so that there is just enough play that it moves in your hand when you swing it, giving attacks extra "snap", which basically means speed and damage. It's also moving very fast. Without some specialized training, a sword fight with two invisible swords would be rocket tag.
#8 Samloyal23 Mar 03, 2012 16:15:25	Without some specialized training, a sword fight with two invisible swords would be rocket tag. Rocket what?
#9 salla Mar 03, 2012 19:31:14	Without some specialized training, a sword fight with two invisible swords would be rocket tag. Rocket what? Rocket Tag. Basically, whoever fires (or in this case, swings) first, wins. As far as 'have you tried swordfighting, I have' goes ... doesn't matter. I'm not a badass adventurer protagonist in a game that emulates heroic fiction, and neither are you, so our personal anecdotes and experiences aren't worth two squirts of urine.
#10 DoctorBadWolf Mar 05, 2012 16:03:58	As far as 'have you tried swordfighting, I have' goes ... doesn't matter. I'm not a badass adventurer protagonist in a game that emulates heroic fiction, and neither are you, so our personal anecdotes and experiences aren't worth two squirts of urine. Sure they are. An invisible sword would be a great advantage, no matter how skilled the user or opponent, unless the opponent has trained to counteract such an advantage. Even Zorro would find a swordsman with an invisible blade to be a much greater than normal challenge. Such a thing would be an event worthy of being a major point of an entire story, not a footnote in one fight.
#11 Unahim Mar 05, 2012 17:38:36	Without some specialized training, a sword fight with two invisible swords would be rocket tag. Rocket what? Rocket Tag. Basically, whoever fires (or in this case, swings) first, wins. As far as 'have you tried swordfighting, I have' goes ... doesn't matter. I'm not a badass adventurer protagonist in a game that emulates heroic fiction, and neither are you, so our personal anecdotes and experiences aren't worth two squirts of urine. It doesn't matter if the protagonists are better than me. A condition that negatively impacts my performance will negatively impact their performance as well, unless they have specific abilities or training to off-set that circumstance, but we're discussing a general casus here, and most characters will not have blind fight or other stuff useful for fighting things you can't see. Sure, the characters will still be better at fighting against an invisible sword than I am at fighting a visible one, but you know what they'd be even better at? Fighting against a visible sword themselves.