Is it a good strategy to provoke OAs to trigger defender Marks? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Is it a good strategy to provoke OAs to trigger defender Marks?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
witchslasher
May 14, 2009 13:21:08 Uhh.. As the title says.. If you're a halfling rogue and get that fat bonus to OAs, does it seem like a good idea to provoke OAs in an attempt to get the enemy to attack you to allow your fighter is Combat Challenge attack?
#2
JayM
May 14, 2009 13:56:06
Uhh.. As the title says.. If you're a halfling rogue and get that fat bonus to OAs, does it seem like a good idea to provoke OAs in an attempt to get the enemy to attack you to allow your fighter is Combat Challenge attack?

It can be for some characters. Some Artful Dodger rogues make a career out of doing it.

If you really want to do it a lot, get better armor and feats that jack up your AC. Even when provoking, you really don't want to be hit. And hold on to at least one ability like Tumble that lets you get out of trouble when you get surrounded.

Jay
#3
witchslasher
May 14, 2009 14:55:43 I don't know why I didn't just say this to begin with, but what about as a Shaman and provoking OAs with the spirit companion? Is that worth it.. I mean even if it's hit they'll have to do a certain amount of damage for the attack to have any effect and you'll probably take half that damage or less.. Then again, you lose your companion right then and there and have to resummon it... There's also the issue of the mark's effect stopping the enemy from attacking others, since it's an Immediate Action in most cases to use the marks effect (apart from the -2), once it's been done once, the enemy is free to do the effects hindered by marking (usually attacking, but also shifting in the case of a fighter) until the start of the defender's next turn..
#4
Stuntman
May 14, 2009 17:22:22 In my group, the warlord uses Brash Strike all the time against enemies marked by the fighter. The warlord takes a beating though. He seems to be the one running out of surges most often.
#5
Nyarlathotep
May 14, 2009 18:56:24 The answer to this question is the same as the answer to most questions. If you flush with HP and have a decent AC (and especially if you ahve some sort of bonus vs OAs) then the answer is yes. If you ahve a low AC and are on your last surge, then not so much.
#6
kouk
May 14, 2009 19:18:28 It's not always a "good" strategy but in some circumstances it's definitely a "valid" strategy.

If you want to risk your own HP for potential damage to the enemy, then go ahead.

If it's actually your goal to make it attack you rather than just presenting the opportunity (often monsters are smart enough to hold off on things like that), it may be better to provoke OAs from other sources.

For instance, Ranged or Area attacks from adjacent squares; if it has some special ability which might thwart such a thing and doesn't try to stop you, you attack it also. Or a few other actions may provoke it's ire more, like insulting it while doing something else (RP effect).

But provoking from movement is usually all you can do when you're a melee guy as well (because you want to make your own melee attacks).
#7
LordOfWeasels
May 15, 2009 15:49:13 "Good" is relative, but my BowRanger makes a habit rushing into melee, flanking with the Fighter, and shooting at +3 (Combat Advantage and Prime Shot) - if they take the OA, the Fighter gets his Combat Challenge hit at +2 (for CA), and my AC is pretty high against OAs. And even if I get hit, I've got a pile of HP, plenty of healing surges, Bloodcut Armor if I get in deep trouble, and, as an added bonus, I'm a *bowranger*. If I do get unexpectedly badly hurt and run low on Surges, I just stand *behind* the defenders and shoot normally for the rest of the day.

It works out pretty well for me. It's a useful strategy to keep in your toolbox, in general.
#8
mellored
May 18, 2009 12:12:17 This has worked out fairly well for our rogue, it's not something to use all the time (like when he's low on HP), but overall it's been worth while, even if the creature doesn't take the OA, you'll be able to get flanking.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 witchslasher May 14, 2009 13:21:08	Uhh.. As the title says.. If you're a halfling rogue and get that fat bonus to OAs, does it seem like a good idea to provoke OAs in an attempt to get the enemy to attack you to allow your fighter is Combat Challenge attack?
#2 JayM May 14, 2009 13:56:06	Uhh.. As the title says.. If you're a halfling rogue and get that fat bonus to OAs, does it seem like a good idea to provoke OAs in an attempt to get the enemy to attack you to allow your fighter is Combat Challenge attack? It can be for some characters. Some Artful Dodger rogues make a career out of doing it. If you really want to do it a lot, get better armor and feats that jack up your AC. Even when provoking, you really don't want to be hit. And hold on to at least one ability like Tumble that lets you get out of trouble when you get surrounded. Jay
#3 witchslasher May 14, 2009 14:55:43	I don't know why I didn't just say this to begin with, but what about as a Shaman and provoking OAs with the spirit companion? Is that worth it.. I mean even if it's hit they'll have to do a certain amount of damage for the attack to have any effect and you'll probably take half that damage or less.. Then again, you lose your companion right then and there and have to resummon it... There's also the issue of the mark's effect stopping the enemy from attacking others, since it's an Immediate Action in most cases to use the marks effect (apart from the -2), once it's been done once, the enemy is free to do the effects hindered by marking (usually attacking, but also shifting in the case of a fighter) until the start of the defender's next turn..
#4 Stuntman May 14, 2009 17:22:22	In my group, the warlord uses Brash Strike all the time against enemies marked by the fighter. The warlord takes a beating though. He seems to be the one running out of surges most often.
#5 Nyarlathotep May 14, 2009 18:56:24	The answer to this question is the same as the answer to most questions. If you flush with HP and have a decent AC (and especially if you ahve some sort of bonus vs OAs) then the answer is yes. If you ahve a low AC and are on your last surge, then not so much.
#6 kouk May 14, 2009 19:18:28	It's not always a "good" strategy but in some circumstances it's definitely a "valid" strategy. If you want to risk your own HP for potential damage to the enemy, then go ahead. If it's actually your goal to make it attack you rather than just presenting the opportunity (often monsters are smart enough to hold off on things like that), it may be better to provoke OAs from other sources. For instance, Ranged or Area attacks from adjacent squares; if it has some special ability which might thwart such a thing and doesn't try to stop you, you attack it also. Or a few other actions may provoke it's ire more, like insulting it while doing something else (RP effect). But provoking from movement is usually all you can do when you're a melee guy as well (because you want to make your own melee attacks).
#7 LordOfWeasels May 15, 2009 15:49:13	"Good" is relative, but my BowRanger makes a habit rushing into melee, flanking with the Fighter, and shooting at +3 (Combat Advantage and Prime Shot) - if they take the OA, the Fighter gets his Combat Challenge hit at +2 (for CA), and my AC is pretty high against OAs. And even if I get hit, I've got a pile of HP, plenty of healing surges, Bloodcut Armor if I get in deep trouble, and, as an added bonus, I'm a bowranger. If I do get unexpectedly badly hurt and run low on Surges, I just stand behind the defenders and shoot normally for the rest of the day. It works out pretty well for me. It's a useful strategy to keep in your toolbox, in general.
#8 mellored May 18, 2009 12:12:17	This has worked out fairly well for our rogue, it's not something to use all the time (like when he's low on HP), but overall it's been worth while, even if the creature doesn't take the OA, you'll be able to get flanking.