I am not completely new to D&D,but i havent played in a long time and i am just starting with a local group that is doing the D&D next playtest. It started out ok, but the last two sessions frankly have not been fun for me at all.
First, there is a lot of non game related chatter during other people's turns, which makes it difficult to concentrate and it extremely distrubing. This was especially disturbing during a big battle we had with two parties people basically milled around chattering amongst themselves waiting for their turn, for me this was especially upsetting because i have serious problems with sensory overload and having almost two dozen loud voices around me made me dizzy and nauseous.
Maybe I'm just a stickler but for me the fun of the game is lost when things are done this way.
Also, there is lots of time needlessly wasted on players making unecessary skill checks, rolling perception almost constantly is a big problem. alot of times it just seems like they are simply combing the desert for magic items that as a level 6 party are not going to be many.
Another thing that disturbed me was bad roleplaying. the one incident in particular there was a situation tonight where we came into an arena overseen by a vampire, Our paladin, a paladin of LATHANDER no less strikes a deal with the vampire to save prisioners! Now a for neutral or chaotic good fither this would be fine but this is a PALADIN a straight arrow. PAladins dont consort with evil creatures, much less a paladin of a diety known for his hatred of undead.
In any other D&D game i have played if the player did this he would be instantly become a fallen paladin and lose his powers.
The worst part of this was that his reason for comitting such acts what the coordinator called metagaming. he wanted to avoid losing HP and spells fighting, This is just aborhent to me. You do what your character would do not what you do to win. there is no winning in D&D! if your character dies, in ever game i have played before you just roll a new character and join back up. so what's the big deal? I mean if we were level 1 nobodies i would understand, but we were a five man party of level 6 characters, including one cleric, a cleric/mage, a single class mage, a paldin and a rouge, we are a strong group. there is not reason to be so nervous in the start of a dungeon. when we are all fully rested.
maybe i am making too much of this, but i was really exictied to play again but it just seems to be a mess. maybe I'm used to a very strict DM, but i just have trouble enjoying an RPG when people are not roleplaying and not into the game. Its been a real dissapointment the last two sessions, which is a shame because it started out so great.
Most of the issues should be discussed with the DM and group. If everyone is ok with the constant skill checks and off topic chatter I think you may have to find a new group...
As for the Paladin issue, most of the people its a non issue. The 'Paladin' aint what she used to be anymore. In newer editions there isnt really a such thing as a fallen Paladin and alignment is fluff. If you want the old school approach to the Paladin you will have to find an old school group imho.
really no one roleplays anymore? whats the point of D&D without it?
I think you should definitely say something about people talking over you during your turn, let them know you don't appreciate it and want the chance to do your thing without distraction. The other stuff is mostly individual preference, the bad roleplay by the paladin is annoying, and I would call him on it myself. That sort of thing is going to vary from table to table and you will have to tolerate it to a degree, the lack of roleplaying can be frustrating but some people play that way for whatever reason.
Murrigan wrote:
Murrigan wrote:
personally i think all the things you have brought up would bother me as well. iv DM'ed for a year and i beleave its the DM job to control the table. a weeker DM will just sit their passive and not keep the
table going and inthralled with the game. i really hate when people brake out their cell phones to play funny fart noises or something stupid. or play games on their laptop. i DM at a store in encounters so iv had to deal with all the great players and the bad, cheaters and liars as well. the DM controls the tempo of the game. i know if you don't like chatter speak up and let it be know. say " can you please be quiet im trying to hear the game".
second a lot of people are not as hardcore about being their alignment or the character anymore. your right that a good paladin could smite evil not bargin. but a week DM or a lazy DM will allow things to
go on like this. some things as a player you have to slide on, pick your personal battles. if you know what i mean.
anyways if your not having fun, id say find another group. finding another group online, it sounds like you may enjoy the older systems and play styles. you can still pick up books and material. the maturity
of the players maybe a problem.
iv played with lot of players and DM's going to the encounter programs over the years. now i mainly play in home games. iv bin frustrated with player and DM all the same. find a group if you can
that plays more to your style.
In pick-up games you have to pretty much go with the flow and adapt. To paraphrase an old adage - a bad day playing D&D is better than a good day at work. 
If you're just getting back, play in as many groups as you can... then try to look for folks who play your style and try to form your own group. If you've got - as you said - TWO DOZEN people milling about, then one problem is obvious - that's too many people for most DM's to successfully engage.
Murrigan wrote:
It's you - you're a 'roleplaying is what I say it is' player.
Yes, your other DM was strict and forced you to play like that.
And not everyone thinks his way of playing is fun.
But I agree other players having full on conversations is no good - why are there two dozen voices? You don't have 12 players on a table, do you??
They should have about six players, then turns happen quickly enough that people wont have time to converse (And can be told not to)
Murrigan wrote:
Murrigan wrote:
First, let me say that I am sorry that you had a poor time, I don't beleive anyone at that table would want to to be unhappy while gaming.
Murrigan wrote:
carodwen wrote:
That response. That one right there. Is what is wrong with the game. IF YOU do not see it as Chaotic Evil or even Nuetral to dig up dead babies to find loot then you have morality issues you should discuss. I am talking moral aspect. Becaise when you sit at MY table and play in MY created world you adhere to your alignment or it will shift. I am old school. Then again I don't see any of the staff at Wizards of the Coast attempting to confirm or deny this case which is why the game has gone to crap. but if you need visuals here you go. Everyone needs a good picture book to teach them right or wrong once in awhile
Normally, it is left to the DM to decide if a player portrays his character's alignment correctly. If the player's roleplaying is found lacking, then the DM must use his own judgment, and the few guidelines given in the rulebooks, to decide if an alignment shift is appropriate.
What to do when someone does an immoral thing when pretending to be morally sound.
(Note I did wait a long time before asking my player to shift his alignment. Ultimitly I had to make a choice.)
Anywho back to Paizio forums
carodwen wrote:
"Ok, fine, I'm evil. That's why I took a class for which my alignment doesn't matter to my abilities. After I complete the quest we're on and I haven't done any evil for a while, you'll have to switch me back, if you're consistent and not just trying to be punitive. Or not. I don't really care, because as I mentioned it doesn't matter to my class."
I've been playing a lot of Talisman on my iPod and characters switch between alignments all the time. Mostly it appears involuntary, but maybe the witch just made a compelling case. The druid switches as convenient. It has some mechanical effects, but the alignments are pretty balanced, and none of your followers seem to care which alignment you are. Edit: I'd love a D&D alignment like that.
It's interesting to me that the people who are most vocal about the need for alignments are the ones who have strong opinions about what makes a person evil, not the ones with strong opinions about what makes a person good. And it always comes down to personal morality too. It's telling.
Centauri wrote:
carodwen wrote:
Plenty of what going on? What was your goal in having the graves of children in your game if they weren't meant for the players to interact with them in some way, including looting them for grave goods?
It sounds like you desire a great deal of control as DM and that alignment rules are just another way for you to exercise that control.
Also, your edition warring is not welcome here. Please confine that to the Paizo forums.
carodwen wrote:
Centauri wrote:
carodwen wrote:
The same reason a person that uses chaotic good as an alignment and finds no fault or bad in always robbing, looting and pillaging. Because I can. Anywho Take care. Everyone has differnet morals. Mine are much different than yours when you are in my game you play it my way or feel free to find another. Players are a dime a dozen. Arguing about it will do no good. And I will no longer feed into it so you can feel superior. You play my game you play by my rules. Period. End of story. But I would bet my life the founders of D&D meant the aligment on the bases of actual morals not how tom sees or and how dick sees it and how jenny sees it. Morals. By their definition. GOOD EVIL NUETRAL. Digging up a child is not good. Period. By no means should it happen Robbing grammy violet is not good for no reason. Just because people today have morals bass ackwards does not mean it is how it is. The site I listed told how the alignment system worked. Either work by those guidleines or leave it blank. PERIOD. Hitler though he was doing good. So does that mean by his logic it was good to gas and kill billions of people because they were different than him? Mao thought he was good does that mean it was ok by his logic to commit mass genocide? Shall I continue? Happy gaming!
carodwen wrote:
Mao thought he was good does that mean it was ok by his logic to commit mass genocide?
carodwen wrote:
Murrigan wrote:
I'd like to toss in my two gold at this one. I haven't read every post but I seem to have the general gist of what's going on.
To the OP: It's perfectly understandable to want a little more focus on the game at hand, and as others have said, bring it up. Don't just let it go.
As for the Paladin issue. What that character did, striking a deal with an Undead, was roleplaying. Sure, he could have pulled out his trusty weapon and attacked, but he didn't. He chose a non-violent course of action to ensure the safety of others. As a DM, I'd find that to be an excellent set-up for something later, whether it be an angry god, or a back-dealing Vampire, but that's up to the DM and the player (and possibly a few side hints from players).
People still roleplay, heck, my entire group is about 80% roleplay in 4E! Just last week, we went Elf tossing!
What I'm trying to say is: To each there own. Roleplay is roleplay, less about HOW it is done and more on simply DOING it. Wanna fight the Vamp? Go ahead, waste some resources, let some prisoners possibly die. Wanna save some folks and not have bloodshed? Go ahead. And a few words for the Paladin: Easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask permission.
As for the side conversation that was going on about alignment: Alignment does NOT equal morals. Why? Because each person's morals are subjective to how that one person views the world. An act of evil in the eyes of one may be seen as an act of good in the eyes of another. Case in point: Raiders are slaughtering a village, people dying, a Necromancer raises the dead to fight back. Is his action good or evil?
thespaceinvader wrote:
Morality is hard...
crimsyn wrote:
Ultimately dnd is a game that you decide how you want to play. In my group, we are super relaxed. We usually pay attention during rounds but sometimes others will chat amoungst themselves. Our roleplaying skills are terrible, and we treat the game largely as a dungeon crawler mixed with GTA - players in our group like to use the game world to just do weird fun stupid - even mean - things that they would not normally do in real life. Hell we are currently Captain Planets Planateers, and we just picked up Goku as a sidekick after brainwashing him to believe his god wanted to come with us! We retcon all the time, it makes us happy, and our DM likes us happy. Nothing wrong with that! But it wouldn't suit you. I think you should talk to your game mates and see if there is a way that you can keep playing with them comfortably