Is it possible to duel wielding Tower shields?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

tekra

Feb 18, 2013 20:20:28
Is it possible in 3.0 to have a dwarf duel weilding 2 tower shield mw? a demo char build cd wont let it for some reason but i find no reason for it. his name is ollum hammersong : str:17, dex:16, con: 17, int: 14, wis:12, cha: 13 feats: ambidextery, imp bull rush, power attack, run, two weapon fighting. Ac:19 weapons: 2 weapon: sheild spikes mw (one for each hand) off hand:spike guantlet mw, main:guantlent spike mw, unarmed for each arm. class features: simple and martial proficiency, light,medium and heavy proficiency, shield proficiency. Armor: full platemw, 2 shield towers mw. can speed 15ft, run x4. carry load is medium. lvl 5 dwarf. the idea is a guard class char that will throw himself in the way to block enemy attacks. When not shielding allies he bull rushes and swings about the tower shield with spikes. and a pretty good unarmed fighter. My dm believes because the demo cd char builder unchecks one tower shield in the equipment section as equiped, that it can not be done. I believe it's his demo cd program not allowing what it should for a unknown reason. So since he didnt check the phb like he religiously does, and i don't own the phb, can it be done using only the phb? 
#2

Mooncleric

Feb 18, 2013 22:55:40
I dont know the rules well enough to say that wielding two tower shields is allowed strictly following the offical dnd rules.  However its totaly up to your DM, and it seems hes against. 

But I will say I am a strong believe that rules can be changed by DMs.  A Dwarf guard who uses two tower shields is a really cool idea.  Maybe you and your DM can work out how to do with out breaking his game.  If your character is strong enough and has gone through the proper training it would be very neat.  

D&D is a changable game, for example. I had a player who had an elf barbarian who instead of doing more damge and become stronger when she raged. Became lighter on her feet as her concept was she was from a culture of wild elves who used meditation and anger to achieve a more basic and primal state (aka rage). So her dex went up and her atk lowered when she raged.  I dont know if there was anther class more tailered to this concept but it didnt break the game and it was an interesting take on the barbarian.
#3

lolabonne

Feb 19, 2013 0:11:27
Why would you want to?  You will get no benefit for doing so.  The cover doesn't stack, and the shield bonus doesn't stack, but the -10 armor check penalty will, as will the -2 attack roll penalty, so you'll be at -20 on skill checks and a -4 on attack rolls.  You can't bash with it, so you can't use shield spikes.

In the meantime, enemies will simply walk past you, since you can't make opportunity attacks (no bashing with tower shields), and you'll basically just be a lump on the battlefield to be ignored, since you can't do anything useful.

Even if you *can* do it, it's a terrible idea.
#4

CliveDauthi

Feb 19, 2013 10:34:28
This is another example of things you should be able to do, but 4e just makes it a pain.
As LolaBonne pointed out; mechanicly it is not so great, but I think it is unrealistic to think a Dwarf warrior couldn't be a badarse with two shields.


My suggestion; plee with your DM to come up with something; OR use one Tower Shield and a weapon (BUT) Fluff that weapon to look like a shield; when you make an attack use that weapons stats but RP wise you would just say your smashing people with a shield.

This way you can still do what you want and not take a huge beating due to 4e mechanics. Sadly 4e falls short when "thinking outside the box" ideas usualy come in; the fact that it's turned halfway into a tactic board game has only encourged most ppl to play OP class/builds.

hope this helps, I too think its a cool concept for a chr.   






             
#5

LordOfWeasels

Feb 19, 2013 12:30:39
This is another example of things you should be able to do, but 4e just makes it a pain.
As LolaBonne pointed out;



In fact, both the OP and LolaBonne's pointing out that it's stupid are in reference to D20, not 4E.

I think it is unrealistic to think a Dwarf warrior couldn't be a badarse with two shields.



Perfectly doable in 4E, although quite correctly not nearly as effective as using a weapon.

My suggestion; plee with your DM to come up with something; OR use one Tower Shield and a weapon (BUT) Fluff that weapon to look like a shield; when you make an attack use that weapons stats but RP wise you would just say your smashing people with a shield.



Probably the simplest way of doing it.  Mechanically, much more effective than actually using a shield and a spiked shield, or two heavy shields and one as an "improvised weapon".

This way you can still do what you want and not take a huge beating due to 4e mechanics.



Again, pay attention.  The OP is playing D20.  The reasons it's a stupid idea that can't work at all?  D20 rules.

In 4E, it's just a dumb idea, not an impossible one.

Sadly 4e falls short when "thinking outside the box" ideas usualy come in; the fact that it's turned halfway into a tactic board game has only encourged most ppl to play OP class/builds.



Whereas I don't actually feel too bad about "weapons are better weapons than non-weapons" as a mechanical thing.

But, again, I point out, this works just fine in 4E, for values of "just fine" that let you try it all you want and don't immediately make it impossible.  It's D20 that immediately makes it impossible.
#6

Sir_Joseph_the_Crowe

Feb 19, 2013 12:45:08
Why not just build a box and lock your character inside. Same effect, but no armor check penalty.

...
#7

CliveDauthi

Feb 19, 2013 12:48:52

Bah! How Did I miss it was d20; My bad I just made an assumption.


As I never played d20 can’t really say more on it.


Note: in 4e if you where a weaponmaster fighter with Arena Training, you could treat the shield as a buffed improvised weapon (add a Ki focus to it (mc/theme) and it wouldn’t be that bad)

#8

MrCustomer

Feb 19, 2013 13:10:23
You would only get the AC bonus of one shield, they wouldn't stack so there would be no bonus to AC.

However, contrary to popular belief, the Armor Check penalty and -2 attack for encumberance  would not stack. The reason for this is because you would be simply carrying the shield, not using it, those penelties come into play when using, not when carrying the shield.

You also can't bash with a tower shield, so the shield spikes serve little purpose, nor could you make any attacks or use your hands to hold or do anything else while carrying, so heavily armored or not, as you pose no threat, the enemy will simply ignore you and attack someone else.
#9

DaBeerds

Feb 19, 2013 17:05:55
Why would you want to?  You will get no benefit for doing so.  The cover doesn't stack, and the shield bonus doesn't stack...(snipped due to questionable RAW logic)...

In the meantime, enemies will simply walk past you, since you can't make opportunity attacks (no bashing with tower shields), and you'll basically just be a lump on the battlefield to be ignored, since you can't do anything useful.

Even if you *can* do it, it's a terrible idea.



I have agree with this assessment.  You can do it, but there is no benefit unless your DM bends the rules: allows ac bonus and cover to stack, allows bashing with tower shields.
#10

Tony_Vargas

Feb 19, 2013 19:41:29
Is it possible in 3.0 to have a dwarf duel weilding 2 tower shield mw? a demo char build cd wont let it for some reason but i find no reason for it. his name is ollum hammersong : str:17, dex:16, con: 17, int: 14, wis:12, cha: 13 feats: ambidextery, imp bull rush, power attack, run, two weapon fighting. Ac:19 weapons: 2 weapon: sheild spikes mw (one for each hand), 2 shield towers mw.... 

Just in case you missed it, above, the problem is that you can't bash with a Tower Shield, so the shield spikes are not useable.  To get your build working, don't use Tower Shield, use a shield you can bash with.  Note that the shield's bonuses won't stack, either.

Another possible build is to use a Tower Shield and a spiked shield, forget the TWF, and attack with the spiked shield.  The Tower Shield's cover bonus /will/ stack with the spiked shield's AC bonus...

Finally, I don't recall if it was for 3.0 or 3.5, but there was a rule for tower shields that used a sort of facing to determine cover.  If you were using that rule, there would be a point to wielding two Tower Shields - you'd have cover from more directions.  You also wouldn't have a free hand to attack, but I didn't say it was a /good/ reason...  

#11

Sir_Joseph_the_Crowe

Feb 20, 2013 14:34:01
Why not just build a box and lock your character inside. Same effect, but no armor check penalty.

...

EDIT: Even without armor check penalty, the box is better, because you can trap the box giving you an attack. If not.. spend some extra money and buy a masterwork lock to make the enemy waste time trying to get to you... I'd suggest taking Leadership so your cohort can let you out when you have to go potty and also to move you from battle to battle and tell you what's going on outside your box. I got it! Put spikes on a barrel and roll-attack on your enemies! Take some spell-caster levels and summon a dire ape to throw your barrell directly at the enemy!