Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kiantreeshadow Jun 02, 2008 21:18:41	As I stated, there are spoilers here read at your own risk. That being said, we (3 players and DM...some of us doubled up on PCs to keep the game balanced) were continuing our adventure. We are in the keep itself. Having survived the encounter with the pit trap, we went left (from the entrance) and towards the down staircase where we had a mini encounter with a drake thing (dont know what it's called off hand) and another goblin. We went downstairs to the second level into the dug out cavern room with the planks and defeated that encounter. In the hallway right before the dug out cavern there is a stairwell to the third level. After resting we proceded down. After lighting a sunrod to see, the map was laid out. HERE IS WHERE THE **** HIT THE FAN. Our DM has us move tactically, by us rolling initiative then proceding through the order. Now when we entered the room, we were in our usual formation. I, as the Paladin, decided to move out and scout ahead. The DM said that a bunch of rats begin to come out. Then another player says something to the effect of: "is that why you had us move like that, thats dumb. Our characters would not break formation unless we were already in battle." The DM, obviously frustrated, replied: "well that is the only way i can trigger it. The rats come out if the party slits up." The other player says: "you are railroading us just so you can trigger this encounter" The DM gets upset and says 'well f-it" and starts cleaning up. I try to reason by saying "does the event trigger when we enter?" then the DM lets us look at the two pages the encounter is on. Specifically the module says when someone in the party is 4 squares away,OR combat breaks out, the rats trigger. So we read this specific encounter, noting that if we dont split up, the rats wont appear and the only thing we would see enventually is the ocher jelly in the corner. I said "well it seems to me that it if we were just exploring, in our usual formation, then we see the ocher jelly, attack it, then the rats come out behind us so why dont we just cut to that?" Well we didnt because the other player was still arguing saying we should be able to see the rats and try to attack them blah blah blah..." suffice it to say, we ended early becuase no compromise was met. I agree that a.)the encounter could have been more specificaly worded b.)the DM could have planned the encounter better as i explained c.)the player really shouldnt have questiond the DM, especially considering it was my PC that moved away Has anyone else had a problem with this specific encounter, similar to this, or was the encounter just ran poorly. Thanks for your input and sorry bout the long message.
#2 xanadu Jun 02, 2008 21:59:15	I don't have the module. Still it strikes me as highly unusual that your DM has you go through initiative when not in a combat situation [or in a 4e skill challenge] (i.e. going down a corridor). The only reason you party "split up" is because they aren't moving at the same time. Out of combat, everyone generally moves together (aside from an occasional forward scout) right? Your proposed solution strikes me as being entirely reasonable; I think the only reason why it wasn't accepted is because emotions were high and feeling hurt.
#3 EscherEnigma Jun 03, 2008 2:07:38	That does sound as just a bad run of that encounter. When I was getting ready to DM that module it struck me that it would probably trigger when the heroes, after not being immediately attacked, started to explore the room seperatetly or when they found the jelly. Or, if I was in a contrary mood, I would just have the rats swarm when they're in the middle of the room. But yeah... I think that's just a bad run of it and people being too upset to go with the reasonalbe compromise.
#4 drmorganes Jun 03, 2008 7:41:54	Sounds like you had two things working against you: a relatively inexperienced DM and a new set of rules. Running any adventure from a module requires almost as much preparation as running one you built from scratch. Back in the day, I'd read the module three times well in advance of the day I wanted to run it, with a fourth read just before game time. Here's a quick breakdown of what I did each time through: Read 1: Just get the feel of the module's story, paying no attention to mechanics Read 2: Get a feel for mechanics, paying little attention to the story Read 3: Pick things apart. Modules generally offer players options 1 & 2, sometimes an Option 3. As a DM, one has to know what happens if the players opt instead for Options Q, V, and J. That is to say, how you'll handle a given situation in the nearly guaranteed event the players will do something unexpected. It's here as well that you should make notes covering options, modifications, and reminders. Read 4: Refresh everything in your head just before the game. (Incidentally, this same process is very applicable to studying material of any sort for school or work.)
#5 themocaw Jun 03, 2008 19:02:41	The DM forgot that initiative is an abstraction: actually, everything happens in the same six-second period, initiative just determines who had the "right of way" in fencing terms: who was directing the flow of the encounter. I think your compromise would have worked out well, but yeah, I don't blame your players for being a bit peeved.
#6 Rekkaman Jun 04, 2008 14:01:48	the other player sounds like an *******. i dont play with people like that so if i was the gm i would have left too
#7 kiantreeshadow Jun 04, 2008 14:38:08	Well hopefully my proposed solution will be adopted otherwise we my just skip the rats and just do the jelly, with the loss of xp. We play friday so we'll see. I really enjoy 4e so far and hate to see my first experience with it end with a petty argument...I let you know what happens on friday.
#8 Mereille Jun 05, 2008 12:48:44	Oh my... First, I think your compromise is a very workable one. I don't know why the other player is so up in arms about it. Second, keep in mind that DMing is not an easy task. I think yours tried to do the best he could with an encounter that is not the easiest to run. Although, I find it odd that he would pack his things at the first sign of dissention. Was there squabbling earlier? It sounds like there are some issues that you, as a group, should work out...away from the table. Maybe you could have just a get-together, and work through the metagame things. And finally, here is how I handled the scene when running it for my son and his friends. I am in the habit of letting them move their minis when exploring an area. That way everyone can see where everyone else is. Plus, it gives me cover for ambushes and such. So I did the same here. They could move freely. The party split into two groups, with two looking to one side of the room, and the other 3 moving around to the other, nearer the jelly. When I described the jelly, one of the characters called to the other two, and the furrball started. me: [describe an ochre jelly] Player1: Hey guys..come over here and look at this... me: Ok....As the silence is broken by [player1]'s call, [player2&3] scream in surprise. Large rodents are dropping from the stalactites around them. Meanwhile, the odd jelly begins to flow toward you.....roll initiative... I then ran a surprise round for the rats, and combat began normally after that. I had planned on one of two things happening. They players split up enough for the rats to attack a straggler, and the jelly being attracted by the fighting. Or the players seeing the jelly, and the rats seeing their chance in the confusion.
#9 kiantreeshadow Jun 07, 2008 0:49:36	Thanks, Mereille. I'll suggest the 'movement of minis until something happens' is a great idea...i'll suggest it to my DM.