minature has it changed? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

minature has it changed?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zoraker
Aug 02, 2009 4:56:05 now i know their is a minataur race in the monster manual but one person in my party says it has changed. is this right or is their no changes sence the release of the minature

reason why im asking is because he thinks that it was to cheesed(over powered) because of the over size trait it has or had. witch brings me to my second question does the hob goblin of the over size trait now
#2
humanmind
Aug 02, 2009 6:21:00 The minotaur hasn't changed (yet).

We (by which I mean, me) hope that in PHB3 the minotaur will get a face lift. It certainly needs one. There has been no official word of a change yet.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1160368&highlight=Minotaur

This is the best alternative that I have found and many people love the changes.

Hope this helps
#3
zoraker
Aug 02, 2009 6:55:54 thanks man needed to no that. um also does the over size trait allow me to hold two handed weapons as one handed
#4
humanmind
Aug 02, 2009 7:27:44 Yes, but no.

A large battle axe is the same as medium greataxe. Technically, the greataxe is a two handed weapon so, no, it can't be wielded with one hand. But any DM that doesn't allow it needs his head read.

Rules say no, but common sense says yes.
#5
zoraker
Aug 02, 2009 8:44:25 ok thanks for that
#6
Krusk
Aug 02, 2009 10:17:09 ... Yes the minotaur has been reprinted in a dragon magazine for PC use. It no longer has the oversized trait. The minotaur in MM1 was not intended for PC use, and should not be used if it can be avoided.

Dragon 369.
#7
zoraker
Aug 02, 2009 20:27:47 cool thanks for the heads up ill have to subscribe to dnd insider now so i can get the mags
#8
gregt_314
Aug 02, 2009 20:32:17 Both the original Monster Manual minotaur and the Dragon version of the minotaur have certain... deficiencies. They're reasonably okay for melee classes but otherwise they're pretty busted. The best plan is to just wait for the Player's Handbook 3 and hope that they get it right on their third try.
#9
AttilatheNun
Aug 02, 2009 22:48:55 As far as I know, hobgoblins never had and never will have the oversized trait.
#10
humanmind
Aug 03, 2009 3:40:27
... Yes the minotaur has been reprinted in a dragon magazine for PC use. It no longer has the oversized trait. The minotaur in MM1 was not intended for PC use, and should not be used if it can be avoided

Well that seems a bit silly. I haven't read that particular article, but the oversized trait seems to be a poor reason to change the race. At most it means he deals and extra 2 damage, if he's lucky. And the goliath has oversized, but the minotaur can't?

Anyway, the race is too melee focused and does need a face lift.

The hobgoblin is not oversized but I think zoraker's friend may have been confused with bugbear.
#11
zoraker
Aug 03, 2009 6:32:25 actually your right about the bugbear thanks for that. so the minataur is being reprinted
#12
humanmind
Aug 03, 2009 6:41:10 Yes the minotaur will be in PHB3. However we don't know if it will be changed from the MM version or not.
#13
zoraker
Aug 03, 2009 7:46:32 ok cool tanks for all of this plus do you know if there is gunna be more classes apart from the psion and monk
#14
humanmind
Aug 03, 2009 16:21:52 There will be 4 psionic, 2 primal, and 2 divine classes. I don't know any more than the monk and psion so far. Psychic warrior and Templar are speculated though.
#15
zoraker
Aug 04, 2009 3:20:29 cool what about races do you know if there is any new races
#16
humanmind
Aug 04, 2009 4:12:35 The two gith races and the minotaur so far.
#17
tylara67
Aug 04, 2009 12:54:12
Well that seems a bit silly. I haven't read that particular article, but the oversized trait seems to be a poor reason to change the race. At most it means he deals and extra 2 damage, if he's lucky. And the goliath has oversized, but the minotaur can't?

Goliaths don't get oversized, what are you talking about? And go ask CharOps how ridiculously overpowered the oversized trait can be.

Also, oversized does not allow you to wield two-handed medium-sized weapons in one hand. It allows you to wield large weapons as if they were medium.
#18
zoraker
Aug 04, 2009 16:21:19 so do i just upgrade the weapon die damage. sorry i fort two handed weapons were larger then one handed(my mistake)
#19
tylara67
Aug 04, 2009 18:55:19
so do i just upgrade the weapon die damage. sorry i fort two handed weapons were larger then one handed(my mistake)

Page 220 of the Player's Handbook has the tables for increasing the damage dice. The track for two-handed weapons is 1d8 -> 2d4 -> 1d10 -> 1d12 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 -> 2d10.

The 1d12 -> 2d6 part is one the main reasons oversized is overpowered.
#20
zoraker
Aug 05, 2009 3:16:52 thanks dude ill remember that also i dont cear if its over powered anyway because its useful for me and if im running a campaine witch im planning on in the future it means ill have to make the monsters harder
#21
Krusk
Aug 05, 2009 15:06:22 The reason (IIRC) for the minotaur change was indeed oversized. Not because it is broken, but because of how it interacts with the brutal weapon property. Way to complicated, and borderling abusable.
#22
zoraker
Aug 06, 2009 3:51:31 its not that confusing. brutal works the way that usealy works. if you roll a 2 on a d10 with a brutal 2 weapon then reroll. same goes for 2 dice. if you roll a number that is equal or lower then the butrul wepons brutal property then reroll(exemple brutal 1 and you roll a 1 on both die)

please correct me if im rong
#23
The_White_Sorcerer
Aug 06, 2009 5:40:58
And the goliath has oversized, but the minotaur can't?

I'm looking at the goliath stats right now, no oversized.
#24
opinionatedfool
Aug 07, 2009 16:41:52
The two gith races and the minotaur so far.

Actually, the Githyanki have been confirmed as not appearing in PHB3. The same article also said there will be four races in PHB3. The minotaur is on the cover, the Githzerai are the insider preview this month, and we also have the Wilden confirmed (I think), leaving room for one more.

But to get back on topic, if you're right about the way brutal works with oversized zoraker, that's why it's abusable. Being able to reroll one or both damage dice on a 2d6 attack is great.
#25
zoraker
Aug 07, 2009 17:05:21 well the brutal rule does state if you roll equal or lower equal to the brutal number you reroll so it must be the same for 2d6 but i think they wouldent actually put it on weapons with 2 die damage
#26
opinionatedfool
Aug 07, 2009 17:43:52 Actually, just looking in my AV and realised the Mordenkrad is already a 2d6 Brutal 1. But with oversized, a large Execution axe can be a 2d6 Brutal 2 weapon. Minimum 6 damage, average of 9 (I think) per [W]. Quite powerful.
#27
zoraker
Aug 07, 2009 17:49:37 yeh i agree quite powerful
#28
RPJesus
Aug 08, 2009 18:17:12 Large maul. 2d8 damage. Plus you can have it silvered and name yourself Maxwell, which, in addition to "Maxwell the Minotaur" being made of win, gives you "Maxwell's silver hammer" :D.
#29
Krusk
Aug 08, 2009 18:35:13
its not that confusing. brutal works the way that usealy works. if you roll a 2 on a d10 with a brutal 2 weapon then reroll. same goes for 2 dice. if you roll a number that is equal or lower then the butrul wepons brutal property then reroll(exemple brutal 1 and you roll a 1 on both die)

please correct me if im rong

Confusing bit.

Weapon that is brutal 2 1d12 damage. Size it up for large. It becomes 2d6. Is it still brutal 2? If so that is really good. Average damage from 5.5 to 9. Big jump. (If i am doing average damages right, and probably am not.)

It is easier to simply say no PC races get brutal oversized.
#30
opinionatedfool
Aug 09, 2009 4:49:40
Large maul. 2d8 damage. Plus you can have it silvered and name yourself Maxwell, which, in addition to "Maxwell the Minotaur" being made of win, gives you "Maxwell's silver hammer" :D.

I'll see your Large Maul and raise you a Large Mordenkrad. 2d8 Brutal 1.

Plus you could still call it your silver hammer :D
#31
tylara67
Aug 09, 2009 7:28:54
Confusing bit.

Weapon that is brutal 2 1d12 damage. Size it up for large. It becomes 2d6. Is it still brutal 2? If so that is really good. Average damage from 5.5 to 9. Big jump. (If i am doing average damages right, and probably am not.)

It is easier to simply say no PC races get brutal.

There are plenty of brutal weapons, though. Easiest to say no PC races get oversized, as the only two races that have it anyway are technically not intended for PCs.
#32
Krusk
Aug 09, 2009 10:56:51
There are plenty of brutal weapons, though. Easiest to say no PC races get oversized, as the only two races that have it anyway are technically not intended for PCs.

And of course, I wrote the wrong word and totally ment to put oversized and instead put brutal. Gonna go edit that, before I look dumber...
#33
zoraker
Aug 09, 2009 21:52:59 lol to maxwelss hammer

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zoraker Aug 02, 2009 4:56:05	now i know their is a minataur race in the monster manual but one person in my party says it has changed. is this right or is their no changes sence the release of the minature reason why im asking is because he thinks that it was to cheesed(over powered) because of the over size trait it has or had. witch brings me to my second question does the hob goblin of the over size trait now
#2 humanmind Aug 02, 2009 6:21:00	The minotaur hasn't changed (yet). We (by which I mean, me) hope that in PHB3 the minotaur will get a face lift. It certainly needs one. There has been no official word of a change yet. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1160368&highlight=Minotaur This is the best alternative that I have found and many people love the changes. Hope this helps
#3 zoraker Aug 02, 2009 6:55:54	thanks man needed to no that. um also does the over size trait allow me to hold two handed weapons as one handed
#4 humanmind Aug 02, 2009 7:27:44	Yes, but no. A large battle axe is the same as medium greataxe. Technically, the greataxe is a two handed weapon so, no, it can't be wielded with one hand. But any DM that doesn't allow it needs his head read. Rules say no, but common sense says yes.
#5 zoraker Aug 02, 2009 8:44:25	ok thanks for that
#6 Krusk Aug 02, 2009 10:17:09	... Yes the minotaur has been reprinted in a dragon magazine for PC use. It no longer has the oversized trait. The minotaur in MM1 was not intended for PC use, and should not be used if it can be avoided. Dragon 369.
#7 zoraker Aug 02, 2009 20:27:47	cool thanks for the heads up ill have to subscribe to dnd insider now so i can get the mags
#8 gregt_314 Aug 02, 2009 20:32:17	Both the original Monster Manual minotaur and the Dragon version of the minotaur have certain... deficiencies. They're reasonably okay for melee classes but otherwise they're pretty busted. The best plan is to just wait for the Player's Handbook 3 and hope that they get it right on their third try.
#9 AttilatheNun Aug 02, 2009 22:48:55	As far as I know, hobgoblins never had and never will have the oversized trait.
#10 humanmind Aug 03, 2009 3:40:27	... Yes the minotaur has been reprinted in a dragon magazine for PC use. It no longer has the oversized trait. The minotaur in MM1 was not intended for PC use, and should not be used if it can be avoided Well that seems a bit silly. I haven't read that particular article, but the oversized trait seems to be a poor reason to change the race. At most it means he deals and extra 2 damage, if he's lucky. And the goliath has oversized, but the minotaur can't? Anyway, the race is too melee focused and does need a face lift. The hobgoblin is not oversized but I think zoraker's friend may have been confused with bugbear.
#11 zoraker Aug 03, 2009 6:32:25	actually your right about the bugbear thanks for that. so the minataur is being reprinted
#12 humanmind Aug 03, 2009 6:41:10	Yes the minotaur will be in PHB3. However we don't know if it will be changed from the MM version or not.
#13 zoraker Aug 03, 2009 7:46:32	ok cool tanks for all of this plus do you know if there is gunna be more classes apart from the psion and monk
#14 humanmind Aug 03, 2009 16:21:52	There will be 4 psionic, 2 primal, and 2 divine classes. I don't know any more than the monk and psion so far. Psychic warrior and Templar are speculated though.
#15 zoraker Aug 04, 2009 3:20:29	cool what about races do you know if there is any new races
#16 humanmind Aug 04, 2009 4:12:35	The two gith races and the minotaur so far.
#17 tylara67 Aug 04, 2009 12:54:12	Well that seems a bit silly. I haven't read that particular article, but the oversized trait seems to be a poor reason to change the race. At most it means he deals and extra 2 damage, if he's lucky. And the goliath has oversized, but the minotaur can't? Goliaths don't get oversized, what are you talking about? And go ask CharOps how ridiculously overpowered the oversized trait can be. Also, oversized does not allow you to wield two-handed medium-sized weapons in one hand. It allows you to wield large weapons as if they were medium.
#18 zoraker Aug 04, 2009 16:21:19	so do i just upgrade the weapon die damage. sorry i fort two handed weapons were larger then one handed(my mistake)
#19 tylara67 Aug 04, 2009 18:55:19	so do i just upgrade the weapon die damage. sorry i fort two handed weapons were larger then one handed(my mistake) Page 220 of the Player's Handbook has the tables for increasing the damage dice. The track for two-handed weapons is 1d8 -> 2d4 -> 1d10 -> 1d12 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 -> 2d10. The 1d12 -> 2d6 part is one the main reasons oversized is overpowered.
#20 zoraker Aug 05, 2009 3:16:52	thanks dude ill remember that also i dont cear if its over powered anyway because its useful for me and if im running a campaine witch im planning on in the future it means ill have to make the monsters harder
#21 Krusk Aug 05, 2009 15:06:22	The reason (IIRC) for the minotaur change was indeed oversized. Not because it is broken, but because of how it interacts with the brutal weapon property. Way to complicated, and borderling abusable.
#22 zoraker Aug 06, 2009 3:51:31	its not that confusing. brutal works the way that usealy works. if you roll a 2 on a d10 with a brutal 2 weapon then reroll. same goes for 2 dice. if you roll a number that is equal or lower then the butrul wepons brutal property then reroll(exemple brutal 1 and you roll a 1 on both die) please correct me if im rong
#23 The_White_Sorcerer Aug 06, 2009 5:40:58	And the goliath has oversized, but the minotaur can't? I'm looking at the goliath stats right now, no oversized.
#24 opinionatedfool Aug 07, 2009 16:41:52	The two gith races and the minotaur so far. Actually, the Githyanki have been confirmed as not appearing in PHB3. The same article also said there will be four races in PHB3. The minotaur is on the cover, the Githzerai are the insider preview this month, and we also have the Wilden confirmed (I think), leaving room for one more. But to get back on topic, if you're right about the way brutal works with oversized zoraker, that's why it's abusable. Being able to reroll one or both damage dice on a 2d6 attack is great.
#25 zoraker Aug 07, 2009 17:05:21	well the brutal rule does state if you roll equal or lower equal to the brutal number you reroll so it must be the same for 2d6 but i think they wouldent actually put it on weapons with 2 die damage
#26 opinionatedfool Aug 07, 2009 17:43:52	Actually, just looking in my AV and realised the Mordenkrad is already a 2d6 Brutal 1. But with oversized, a large Execution axe can be a 2d6 Brutal 2 weapon. Minimum 6 damage, average of 9 (I think) per [W]. Quite powerful.
#27 zoraker Aug 07, 2009 17:49:37	yeh i agree quite powerful
#28 RPJesus Aug 08, 2009 18:17:12	Large maul. 2d8 damage. Plus you can have it silvered and name yourself Maxwell, which, in addition to "Maxwell the Minotaur" being made of win, gives you "Maxwell's silver hammer" :D.
#29 Krusk Aug 08, 2009 18:35:13	its not that confusing. brutal works the way that usealy works. if you roll a 2 on a d10 with a brutal 2 weapon then reroll. same goes for 2 dice. if you roll a number that is equal or lower then the butrul wepons brutal property then reroll(exemple brutal 1 and you roll a 1 on both die) please correct me if im rong Confusing bit. Weapon that is brutal 2 1d12 damage. Size it up for large. It becomes 2d6. Is it still brutal 2? If so that is really good. Average damage from 5.5 to 9. Big jump. (If i am doing average damages right, and probably am not.) It is easier to simply say no PC races get brutal oversized.
#30 opinionatedfool Aug 09, 2009 4:49:40	Large maul. 2d8 damage. Plus you can have it silvered and name yourself Maxwell, which, in addition to "Maxwell the Minotaur" being made of win, gives you "Maxwell's silver hammer" :D. I'll see your Large Maul and raise you a Large Mordenkrad. 2d8 Brutal 1. Plus you could still call it your silver hammer :D
#31 tylara67 Aug 09, 2009 7:28:54	Confusing bit. Weapon that is brutal 2 1d12 damage. Size it up for large. It becomes 2d6. Is it still brutal 2? If so that is really good. Average damage from 5.5 to 9. Big jump. (If i am doing average damages right, and probably am not.) It is easier to simply say no PC races get brutal. There are plenty of brutal weapons, though. Easiest to say no PC races get oversized, as the only two races that have it anyway are technically not intended for PCs.
#32 Krusk Aug 09, 2009 10:56:51	There are plenty of brutal weapons, though. Easiest to say no PC races get oversized, as the only two races that have it anyway are technically not intended for PCs. And of course, I wrote the wrong word and totally ment to put oversized and instead put brutal. Gonna go edit that, before I look dumber...
#33 zoraker Aug 09, 2009 21:52:59	lol to maxwelss hammer