So last night our PCs were investigating a cave system (we all live underground anyway) and we came across some surface dwelling halflings for the first time in our lives. We were a little hesitant but approached them and suggested that we might trade. They wanted to show us the pile of furs they could trade with us but we sensed that they were going to ambush us. We went to take a look at the furs anyway since to not do so would men dropping our bluff. So we got to the furs and they jumped us and their leader mentioned something about using us as slaves before we kicked their behinds. Covered in their blood we decided to investigate further and came across their guard lizards (which we also killed since they were hostile). We then found a kitchen and walked further to find a halfling walking along with a pick over his shoulder. The first thing our party leader said was "Is this a mine?" The halfling began to run since he could only assume that we had just killed the guards upstairs and so the party leader ordered the rogue to shoot the little guy so he couldn't run away to warn the others. He was shot (non-leathal-ly) and the warlord and fighter stood over him and demanded answers. Anyway, I (not my PC) was pretty upset at this turn of events.
So that's the set up, and this is the question...
What techniques are there to learn to roleplay right? I can't seem to divorce my real life morals from those my character has. I pretend to enjoy the hurting of innocents even though I know it is a game. It makes me thoroughly uncomfortable and sometimes, like last night, quite upset. I talked to the player who played the warlord/party leader and he said that he also felt uncomfortable but that his character would definitely have acted that way.
So my questions are; what can I do to divorce myself from the situation more? Obviously just thinking about it at the time doesn't work, so can anyone suggest ways I can train myself (out of gametime) to think differently so I am more prepared for it in game?
I also wonder how much of this I can even change at this stage. I am only new to RPing. I've only been going for a little more than a year but I only started at the age of 25 so I think that maybe since my morals are already close to fully developed then it will be hard to change. I suspect that if I had roleplayed since my early teens like the others in my group then I would have developed a real life set of morals but also the ability to suspend them for gaming purposes. Maybe it is too late for me to learn this? I would like to hear from people who have had experience in joining gaming later in life and if they had any problems reconciling what happened in game with that IRL. Do you guys think this is the problem or am I just never going to RP well?
I guess I also wonder if maybe others can do things like this in gaming because the actions are so completely alien to them that their ability to empathise with the characters is limited? That question is badly worded but I guess what I mean is that that have never been on the receiving end of senseless violence and intimidation themselves so they don't realise the implications in feelings of it. Earlier in life I was in a relationship that was physically and mentally abusive so I think it's easier for me to feel revulsion at needlessly hurting innocents than for others who have not experienced in first hand. I know that this is definitely part of the problem but I want to be able to train myself so that it's not affecting me playing D&D. But is it even possible to ignore that?
Anyway, sorry for the incredibly heavy nature of this thread (and the length) but I would appreciate any suggestions of what to do in this situation, especially from anyone who had been in a similar situation. I don't want to leave the campaign but I don't want to be offended and upset by these in-game situations either. What should I do?
I'd like to apologise in advance since this is on topic and off topic so I didn't know which forum this would be most appropriate in.
Dungeons And Dragons is a combat intensive game, and always has been. If you are uncomfortable with that aspect of the game, you may wish to seek out a different RPG.
Personally, I don't think there was anything wrong with how your acted in terms of good vs. evil. You were attacked by halflings (during first contact with them no less!) and their mounts so naturally you're going to be prepared for further halfling aggression. And it's not like you killed the worker halfling, I wouldn't think that there's anything wrong with pumping him for information to avoid undue conflict or divine the intentions of an enemy.
If you felt unsettled about what happened, then that is how you felt. There is nothing wrong with that. I for one hate executing prisoners. The fact that I played alongside some other players who had no problem torturing prisoners bothered me, which helped contribute to that group breaking up. I don't think there was anything wrong with that. Different people have different playstyles, which sometimes are incompatible.
If you feel that your character would behave in a way that makes you squeamish, then change the character's personality and motivations. A character is just a tool you use in order to have fun while playing a game, so don't feel shackled to doing things in one particular way.
Now then, if you were DMing, then it is necessary to dissociate your feelings in order to create good villains. However, I think that is generally easier, since DMing typically doesn't involve putting in the same amount of personal investment in any one character that a player puts into their one PC.
Anyways, the only right way to roleplay is to have fun. If you are no having fun, then perhaps you should talk to the other players and the DM, to discuss the issue. There are probably solutions to the situation that can be found.
For example, if I was to DM, I would avoid putting my players in a situation where they need to execute a prisoner. If I had to, I would flat out tell them out of game that I would not punish them in any way for releasing a prisoner. The solution is meta-gamey, but sometimes realism and the like need to be circumvented in order to enjoy yourself.
Remember, D&D is about having fun. If you are not having fun, then something needs to change. And the characters and game are easier to change than your personality. D&D is not a big enough of a deal for you to get this worried about it.
So my questions are; what can I do to divorce myself from the situation more? Obviously just thinking about it at the time doesn't work, so can anyone suggest ways I can train myself (out of gametime) to think differently so I am more prepared for it in game?
You want methods of desensitizing yourself so that you can enjoy inflicting pain on others? Maybe sign up as a mercenary and go over to Sudan? You'll soon find many ways of doing such!
Honestly though, there is nothing bad about having an aversion to causing pain to others and then taking pleasure from it; torture-as-porn is increasingly prevelant in movies and its not something to be encouraged.
I also wonder how much of this I can even change at this stage. I am only new to RPing. I've only been going for a little more than a year but I only started at the age of 25 so I think that maybe since my morals are already close to fully developed then it will be hard to change. I suspect that if I had roleplayed since my early teens like the others in my group then I would have developed a real life set of morals but also the ability to suspend them for gaming purposes. Maybe it is too late for me to learn this? I would like to hear from people who have had experience in joining gaming later in life and if they had any problems reconciling what happened in game with that IRL. Do you guys think this is the problem or am I just never going to RP well?
Your morals and values are not necessarily formed by your mid 20s
Like someone above suggested, maybe focus your adventures on undead or seek a different hobby I've known many people who try to live their moral lives through their characters.....better to go out and live them in the real world and leave DnD as the hobby it is supposed to be :Dperhaps your character In-game is just a reflection of you on the inside. So to change this you will need to change those inside feelings.
I think the best advice I can give for dealing with things that bother you ingame is to remember that it's just a game. Many of us in real life would be uncomfortable with torture and killing if we actually had to do it, but the people in these fantasy worlds live much harsher lives than most of us do. For them, survival is a daily struggle and they'll do whatever they think they can get away with to make it through.
But, since it's just a game, that also means it doesn't need to be that way. If you and the other players are a little uncomfortable with the tone of the setting, speak to the GM or even just come to a mutual understanding about the level of permissable violence.
Or learn to separate yourself from your character, but I can't help with that.
Remember that these are fictional characters in a story setting. All you do is determine their actions to how you see fit. If you want him to be a hero in all meanings of the word, you've now given him personal issues to overcome in order to be the hero you imagine him to be. You can have his name live in infamy instead, due to the horrendous things he has done. If you can treat him as a story character, specifically YOUR story character, then you can have your character do some questionable things, with the hopes of retribution at the end.
I hope this helps.
The one thing you have to learn if to turn off the character when dealing with the other players out of character, otherwise this could lose you friendships.
your PC's morals is yours to choose, so you can allow yourselves to be appalled at violence. My advice 'd be to just give your PC a sense of kindness, maybe even speaking up for the prisoner's rights. Or playing the good cop in the Good Cop/Bad Cop routine.
Also, since you are new to roleplaying, here 's a few tips:
- Discuss the next situation in-game, acting from your PC's point of view, and have the others respond as their characters. It 'll give your PCs and your game a little more depth, even it sounds like the old "If we do that, we 're not better than them."-storyline. Alas, it may seem strange if your party is a Drow Patrol, but even then, you might as well follow another approach, and be the odd "good" Drow/Hobgoblin/Bugbear/Shadar-Kai...
- If you don't feel comfortable with a cruel character, don't play one. It 's not necessary to play a PC far from your own morals, especially when new. If there 's something you don't agree with, don't do it, even if your PC might be able to do it, 'cos he/she doesn't have to. You have a choice and so has your PC. Good thing, btw, that your Warlord mate felt the same about the situation out of character. BUT:
- As long as you don't play yourself with pointy ears/a big sword/a staff/set of lockpicks, it 's fine. You wouldn't believe how many people I played with over the years who just played themselves-with-big-guns (a worrysome experience). Which brings me to the next point:
- Try something else you 'd feel comfortable to do for a difference, like playing a character who's a bit irresponsible if you have lots of responsibilities in life. Myself, I neither drink (anymore) nor smoke (never did) and yet I enjoyed playing drinkin', smokin' PCs (mostly Dwarf mercs) in almost every RPG I did partake in over the years, and a vegan, anarchist friend of mine played a nobleman who ate meat.
- Finally, concerning game mechanics, even in combat you can choose to deal non-lethal damage in 4e (and suffer no penalty for doing so). Subdue your enemies, maybe treat them with a certain respect, either out of your PC's religion, innate kindness or grudging respect for the enemy. You might come to terms with some forms of violence, maybe against certain even more horrid creatures.
- If this doesn't work, you could try to rely more on skill challenges to help your party while they fight an enemy. Talk with your DM about that.
Honestly though, there is nothing bad about having an aversion to causing pain to others and then taking pleasure from it; torture-as-porn is increasingly prevelant in movies and its not something to be encouraged.
Indeed, even tho' I have a strange fondness of the Saw Series, maybe because it 's more intelligent than most horrorfilms. On the other hand, I couldn't even stand reading a summary of Hostel 1&2, however... Sorry for going off topic, but still I agree.
Cheers!
Captn M.
PS: I don't think othe RPGs would be better in this instance. Vampires dominating people, Shadowrun's street violence,...
Earlier in life I was in a relationship that was physically and mentally abusive so I think it's easier for me to feel revulsion at needlessly hurting innocents than for others who have not experienced in first hand. I know that this is definitely part of the problem but I want to be able to train myself so that it's not affecting me playing D&D.
*snip*
I don't want to leave the campaign but I don't want to be offended and upset by these in-game situations either. What should I do?
Why don't you want to leave the campaign?
BTW, did you leave the abusive relationship? How long did it take for you to leave?
I know I'm a random internet stranger, but I wonder if you need emotional connection and are willing to go through hell to keep it.
You might feel empty if you leave the campaign, but if you start trying to train yourself into accepting these uncomfortable situations, you will make a hole in yourself.
Would you say you find an emotional connection in playing? I know you find that really valuable, but your going to have to realise your own sense of morals and beliefs are far more valuable than that. Perhaps you don't feel that yet, but my morals and beliefs say you should.
I want to thank the rest of you for your help and advice. It's good to be able to find out what the situation looks like when you are removed from it. I had talked to one other person from my group about this but he obviously thinks I should stay (since he enjoys hanging out with me, I guess) so he is a little biased in his advice of what to do. Anyway, I really appreciate you guys giving your opinions. I guess I have a bit of thinking to do as to what I will do.
So, once again, thankyou very much for all the advice.
-shinydice
If someone attacks you in real life, you wouldn't defend yourself? If they want to kill you or turn you into a slave, I'd harldy call them innocent.
It's not like you tortured the Halfling you captured, then killed him for the fun of it. And since they are a halfling, like the ones that attacked you earlier, they probably aren't innocent either. And even if they are (i.e. they are a slave or something), then you can always free them.
Hell, look what portraying the Joker did to Heath Ledger. Heath was a hell of an actor, but he couldn't divest himself personally from his character enough to get past the completely fictional deeds of that character. You're effectively talking about the same conflict.
I don't think that Acting or Role-Playing is for you, just from what you wrote above... If you can't accept the premise of the combat-heavy, moralistically gray fantasy world (because lawfulness goes hand in hand with social morals and neither of which is generally prevalent anywhere in a fantasy setting except large cities) in which DnD is portrayed, it is probably not the thing for you..
I have to disagree with Rowl. One of the primary uses of role-playing (employed by psychologists long before we gamers realized it could be used for fun) is to grapple with the difference between your world-view and those of other people. In other words, role-playing an evil person doesn't necessarily make you evil, but it can lead to a few insights into 'evil' people (not necessarily comforting insights, but still.)
That doesn't mean that I feel Shinydice must accept the amoral behavior of his/her character or companions. SD needs to keep in mind that no matter what the rest of the group does, he has control over his character's actions. Just because nobody else objects to shooting unarmed halflings in the back and interrogating them doesn't mean they'll be opposed to SD if he announces that his character won't do these things. In fact, the other PCs might enjoy having a more 'moral' person in the group, even if they don't always follow that person's example.
(But be warned, some DMs prefer to present a zero-sum world where no good deed goes unpunished: others have a more moralistic (or 'karmic') campaign in which it is evil that inevitably damages itself. A good-aligned character in the first type of world can be rather discouraging to play.)
I don't think that Acting or Role-Playing is for you, just from what you wrote above. The whole concept of RP-ing is to take on a role and portray that character within the confines and concepts of the Fantasy world (in the case of DnD). If you can't accept the premise of the combat-heavy, moralistically gray fantasy world (because lawfulness goes hand in hand with social morals and neither of which is generally prevalent anywhere in a fantasy setting except large cities) in which DnD is portrayed, it is probably not the thing for you.
I both agree and disagree with Rowl. Firstly, Roleplaying and Acting are for anyone who enjoys them. More to the point, roleplayers do not actually play characters that are completely different from themselves. It is frankly impossible. The fact is that your own perceptions and experience shape all of your judgments. As Douglas Adam's said in Mostly Harmless: "You cannot see the Universe the way I see it because you see it the way you see it." At best, a roleplayer plays a character that amplifies or minimises certain aspects of themselves. And even when they are playing a completely different personality, they are still playing that sees the world essentially the same as they do, but layering an extra feature or two over it. That is precisely why roleplaying is useful in psychology. We play what we think we are or what we wish we could be - that is, what we have the potential to be.
That being said, D&D is a combat heavy game. No matter how important morality is in the game world, morality is suspended in certain scenes. There comes a certain point when it is okay to kill something and take its stuff simply because the Monster Manual says "Usually Chaotic Evil." If the party is attacked by starving wolves in the wilderness and end up killing them, there is no moral issue. It is simply the next fight. Despite the fact that the party could have handled it with non-lethal damage, Nature skill checks to calm or frighten the animals, or whatever.
Hell, look what portraying the Joker did to Heath Ledger. Heath was a hell of an actor, but he couldn't divest himself personally from his character enough to get past the completely fictional deeds of that character. You're effectively talking about the same conflict.
It should be noted that Heath Ledger supposedly went into seclusion for a month to prepare for the role beforehand. He spent the month alone in a motel room fully analyzing the Joker, working on the psychology, the motives, and even the voice. That type of full immersion goes beyond the normal idea of acting and roleplaying.