Multiclassing?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

theuberkodama

Nov 04, 2008 5:32:44		So...how do you multiclass? I can't find any actual rules in the 3 core books. Do I use the same kind of rules in 3.5? What do I do?

Thanks!
~theuberkodama
#2

Quintarius

Nov 04, 2008 6:11:36 		You may want to look for the "Multiclass feats" in the back of the Feat-Section.
There is no "Multiclassing" anymore, you ma yonly multiclass with this feats, described there.
#3

drmorganes

Nov 04, 2008 9:09:52
You may want to look for the "Multiclass feats" in the back of the Feat-Section.
There is no "Multiclassing" anymore, you ma yonly multiclass with this feats, described there.

This is not precisely correct.

Multiclassing still exists in 4E, but it doesn't work in the same way as it did in 3.5.
Specific rules for multiclassing may be found on p208 of the Player's Handbook. A quick primer:
  • Select the Multiclass feat associated with the class you want to pursue. This "unlocks" a limited feature set, typically involving training in a specific skill, a once-per-encounter or once-per-day use of some power or feature, and the ability to pursue paragon paths associated with your second class. Note: You DO NOT gain any powers or class features of your second class, except as specifically noted in your multiclass feat. Second Note: Not all paragon paths are available to all multiclassed characters. Some PPs require additional class features that are not available to multiclassed characters. For example, characters multiclassing into Warlock are unable to pursue Warlock Paragon Paths because the Pact Initiate feat does not actually grant a warlock pact.
  • Additional feats are available at higher levels which allow you to swap ONE encounter attack, utility, or daily power from your primary class with a like power from your second class. These "power swap" feats are optional, but you won't gain any additional multiclass benefits unless you do take them.
  • Once you hit Level 11 and if you have taken all three power swap feats, you may opt to "paragon multiclass" and gain further powers from your second class instead of pursuing a paragon path.


As a quick example, Fighter/Rogue was a common multiclass in 3.5. This granted the Fighter a wider range of skills, additional skill points, Trapfinding, Sneak Attack, and all the other rogue class abilities.

In 4E, a Fighter may still opt to multiclass to Rogue, but he will gain training in a single specified skill and be able to use Sneak Attack with much less frequency than a full-on rogue. That's it. No Rogue Weapon Talent, no First Strike - only those features described in the Sneak of Shadows multiclass feat.

4E multiclassing is far and away less potent than 3.5, and carries a higher opportunity cost. Some folks will take a multiclass feat simply to gain the additional skill training plus a little boost (why not, if you were going to burn a feat on Skill Training anyway?), others will take one or two power swap feats. The general consensus is paragon multiclassing isn't worth giving up your Paragon Path.
#4

lachlanceallach

Nov 04, 2008 11:07:20
This is not precisely correct.

Multiclassing still exists in 4E, but it doesn't work in the same way as it did in 3.5.
Specific rules for multiclassing may be found on p208 of the Player's Handbook. A quick primer:
  • Select the Multiclass feat associated with the class you want to pursue. This "unlocks" a limited feature set, typically involving training in a specific skill, a once-per-encounter or once-per-day use of some power or feature, and the ability to pursue paragon paths associated with your second class. Note: You DO NOT gain any powers or class features of your second class, except as specifically noted in your multiclass feat. Second Note: Not all paragon paths are available to all multiclassed characters. Some PPs require additional class features that are not available to multiclassed characters. For example, characters multiclassing into Warlock are unable to pursue Warlock Paragon Paths because the Pact Initiate feat does not actually grant a warlock pact.
  • Additional feats are available at higher levels which allow you to swap ONE encounter attack, utility, or daily power from your primary class with a like power from your second class. These "power swap" feats are optional, but you won't gain any additional multiclass benefits unless you do take them.
  • Once you hit Level 11 and if you have taken all three power swap feats, you may opt to "paragon multiclass" and gain further powers from your second class instead of pursuing a paragon path.


As a quick example, Fighter/Rogue was a common multiclass in 3.5. This granted the Fighter a wider range of skills, additional skill points, Trapfinding, Sneak Attack, and all the other rogue class abilities.

In 4E, a Fighter may still opt to multiclass to Rogue, but he will gain training in a single specified skill and be able to use Sneak Attack with much less frequency than a full-on rogue. That's it. No Rogue Weapon Talent, no First Strike - only those features described in the Sneak of Shadows multiclass feat.

4E multiclassing is far and away less potent than 3.5, and carries a higher opportunity cost. Some folks will take a multiclass feat simply to gain the additional skill training plus a little boost (why not, if you were going to burn a feat on Skill Training anyway?), others will take one or two power swap feats. The general consensus is paragon multiclassing isn't worth giving up your Paragon Path.

This is good to know. I've copied your response for when I run my first 4th Edition game (as soon as I can get my group to change from 3.5).

Thanks for clear and simple response.

:D
#5

Duskweaver

Nov 04, 2008 11:30:44
For example, characters multiclassing into Warlock are unable to pursue Warlock Paragon Paths because the Pact Initiate feat does not actually grant a warlock pact.

This is nonsense. The Pact Initiate feat specifically states: "Choose a warlock pact. ... and you can pursue the warlock paragon path based on that pact."
#6

drmorganes

Nov 04, 2008 14:35:09
This is good to know. I've copied your response for when I run my first 4th Edition game (as soon as I can get my group to change from 3.5).

Thanks for clear and simple response.

:D

I'm glad you found it useful!

This is nonsense. The Pact Initiate feat specifically states: "Choose a warlock pact. ... and you can pursue the warlock paragon path based on that pact."

erm... yeah. That was a bit vague, wasn't it? Thanks for catching that, Duskweaver! Allow me to clarify:

The Pact Initiate multiclass feat doesn't actually grant the Warlock's Curse or Pact Boon class features. Warlock Paragon Paths all have some features and powers tied to Warlock's Curse or Pact Boon. As such, characters multiclassing into Warlock and choosing to pursue a Warlock Paragon Path will find that they are unable to use some of the Paragon Path's abilities. Doomsayer and Feytouched aren't quite so bad, but the Lifeslayer path for Infernal Pact warlocks essentially gets gutted. That path is built entirely around what happens to Cursed opponents.

So with that, let me amend my earlier statement to this:

Not all multiclassed characters can take full advantage of the Paragon Paths available to them through their multiclass feat.
#7

Duskweaver

Nov 04, 2008 16:44:24 		Well, the point you were making was correct anyway. But the appropriate example would have been ranger rather than warlock. Ranger PPs all (even the new ones in the FRPG) specify one of the ranger fighting styles as a prerequisite, which the ranger multiclass feat doesn't give you.
#8

drmorganes

Nov 06, 2008 9:00:01 		Great example, Duskweaver! I'll be sure to remember that for future use.