My DM doesn't like my classfeature - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

My DM doesn't like my classfeature

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
PestilenceX
Sep 22, 2012 20:10:12 I've made a tiefling fireblaster and a few weeks back played it for the first time. Today we had a game for another campaign, but the first campaign came up in conversation and he mentioned he feels the pyromancers, from the mage 4e, ignore all firerestance feature is to powerfull and he feels it should be changed to something else.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Now I can see his point somewhat. It is a strong feature, but I did put in quite a bit of effort to make that blaster. I don't want to throw it away and build something else especially seeing the character felt pretty good roleplayingwise aswell, but I don't really like the idea of the DM tweaking rules just becuase he feels aspects of the build are to powerfull.

What should I do? Should I just allow the DM to change the ignore resistance to pierce 10 or whatever it becomes? I'm feeling kinda conflicted on this.
#2
KColette
Sep 22, 2012 20:49:08 Well, one possible solution: Suggest replacing the Ignore All Resistance feature with one like the Sorcerer, that ignores 5/10/15 resistance relative to the tier. (Heroic/Paragon/Epic) That way, you can still play the same character you worked on, just debuffed a bit to suit the DM's preferences.
#3
iserith
Sep 22, 2012 21:14:39 Is the DM planning on using a plethora of fire resistant creatures? I can't remember the last time a creature having fire resistance made any sort of difference at all in any game I've run or played. That sounds like a gut reaction from the DM, not a well-thought out objection. Something doesn't add up here.
#4
Noctaem
Sep 22, 2012 23:21:46 yeah like Iserith pointed out, unless your DM is planning on doing a campaign that focuses specifically on using monsters with fire resistance and the like, that class feature is actually useless like what ? 80 % + of the time ? If you ever do meet a monster with fire resist it's cool because it makes the pyromancer shine that he can just say my fire beats your fire ! It's like Amaterasu from Naruto, the ultimate fire of doom !!!

Explain this to your DM and point out that other classes have much more powerful class features. The pyromancer ignoring fire resistance is actually a gimmick feature. If he wants to lower the damage output the party via resistance just give the monster an untyped damage resistance, problem solved.

The mages ability to pick two powers at each level and switch between them is much more powerful in utility AND in power level. Point that out to him as well.
#5
Tiarn
Sep 23, 2012 3:46:16 There are many builds that specialize in one type of energy and become able to pierce or outright ignore the resistance (sometimes immunity, which is rare) of things that resist that which they specialize in. (The necromancer build from that same class for one)

This is done on purpose.

Explain to your DM that in the older days of DnD (basically any before 4e), specialization would cause you to completely sit out of a battle if you ran into something that was immune or resistant to your specialty. 4e was designed to go against this, everyone gets to play with everything. The rogue doesn't sit in a corner because the undead attack, the wizard doesn't go hide and take a tea break because a golem walked in on the scene and a firemage doesn't go get a tan because the fire elementals entered. Now she just burns them more! Because 4e was designed for everyone to play, all the time.

So let your DM know now, that you won't be sad at all to see a fire elemental, or a tiefling, or a demon, or whatever attack your party. In fact, you relish it because it will allow you to use a special class feature that would have sat there unused otherwise. Let her know you'll thank her afterward.
#6
PestilenceX
Sep 23, 2012 5:48:59
Is the DM planning on using a plethora of fire resistant creatures? I can't remember the last time a creature having fire resistance made any sort of difference at all in any game I've run or played. That sounds like a gut reaction from the DM, not a well-thought out objection. Something doesn't add up here.

I'm not sure. I do feel the feature wouldn't even find that much use. Its just a nice idea to know you can't be sidelined becuase of fireresistances and later immunities. But t be honest I can't even remember the last time the DM even used a fireresist monster. I'm sure there have been some but.....

I do feel it would set a possibly dangerous precedent if the DM would change something just becuase he feels it doesn't feel right.
#7
iserith
Sep 23, 2012 11:14:26 Yes, he's probably thinking of some "cool" encounter he wants to throw in at some point with a fire creature that may have resistance. Or he's just having a visceral reaction to it without thinking. (Though both could be going on.) The only person in the party that a fire resistant creature would screw over is you - Mr. Fighter won't have any problems hacking away. That's pretty weak if he just wants to limit you.
#8
salla
Sep 23, 2012 12:28:13
There are many builds that specialize in one type of energy and become able to pierce or outright ignore the resistance (sometimes immunity, which is rare) of things that resist that which they specialize in. (The necromancer build from that same class for one)

This is done on purpose.

Explain to your DM that in the older days of DnD (basically any before 4e), specialization would cause you to completely sit out of a battle if you ran into something that was immune or resistant to your specialty. 4e was designed to go against this, everyone gets to play with everything. The rogue doesn't sit in a corner because the undead attack, the wizard doesn't go hide and take a tea break because a golem walked in on the scene and a firemage doesn't go get a tan because the fire elementals entered. Now she just burns them more! Because 4e was designed for everyone to play, all the time.

So let your DM know now, that you won't be sad at all to see a fire elemental, or a tiefling, or a demon, or whatever attack your party. In fact, you relish it because it will allow you to use a special class feature that would have sat there unused otherwise. Let her know you'll thank her afterward.

This.
#9
MrCustomer
Sep 23, 2012 12:31:38
Yes, he's probably thinking of some "cool" encounter he wants to throw in at some point with a fire creature that may have resistance. Or he's just having a visceral reaction to it without thinking. (Though both could be going on.) The only person in the party that a fire resistant creature would screw over is you - Mr. Fighter won't have any problems hacking away. That's pretty weak if he just wants to limit you.

I would also point out to him that one character that can beat a creature's fire resistance is not the same as all the characters beating that resistance. The creature's fire resistance is still there and the creature still benifits from resisting fire attacks from all the other PCs and surroundings.

It also makes sense that a specialist shouldn't be useless against the very thing they specialize in. And you can point out the old saying "Fight fire with fire"
#10
PestilenceX
Sep 23, 2012 17:52:04 Thanks for all the responses. I send my DM an email telling him how I felt and I think I'll point him to this thread and hope "he sees the light". ;)
#11
evildungeonmaster
Sep 23, 2012 18:57:46 Is the DM normally a rational, fair guy? If so, he may have a perfectly good reason but explaining it may act as a spoiler. If he's normally a trustworthy guy, i'd probably just go along with it. In my game you'd likely earn a little extra XP or other rewards just for doing so.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 PestilenceX Sep 22, 2012 20:10:12	I've made a tiefling fireblaster and a few weeks back played it for the first time. Today we had a game for another campaign, but the first campaign came up in conversation and he mentioned he feels the pyromancers, from the mage 4e, ignore all firerestance feature is to powerfull and he feels it should be changed to something else. community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... Now I can see his point somewhat. It is a strong feature, but I did put in quite a bit of effort to make that blaster. I don't want to throw it away and build something else especially seeing the character felt pretty good roleplayingwise aswell, but I don't really like the idea of the DM tweaking rules just becuase he feels aspects of the build are to powerfull. What should I do? Should I just allow the DM to change the ignore resistance to pierce 10 or whatever it becomes? I'm feeling kinda conflicted on this.
#2 KColette Sep 22, 2012 20:49:08	Well, one possible solution: Suggest replacing the Ignore All Resistance feature with one like the Sorcerer, that ignores 5/10/15 resistance relative to the tier. (Heroic/Paragon/Epic) That way, you can still play the same character you worked on, just debuffed a bit to suit the DM's preferences.
#3 iserith Sep 22, 2012 21:14:39	Is the DM planning on using a plethora of fire resistant creatures? I can't remember the last time a creature having fire resistance made any sort of difference at all in any game I've run or played. That sounds like a gut reaction from the DM, not a well-thought out objection. Something doesn't add up here.
#4 Noctaem Sep 22, 2012 23:21:46	yeah like Iserith pointed out, unless your DM is planning on doing a campaign that focuses specifically on using monsters with fire resistance and the like, that class feature is actually useless like what ? 80 % + of the time ? If you ever do meet a monster with fire resist it's cool because it makes the pyromancer shine that he can just say my fire beats your fire ! It's like Amaterasu from Naruto, the ultimate fire of doom !!! Explain this to your DM and point out that other classes have much more powerful class features. The pyromancer ignoring fire resistance is actually a gimmick feature. If he wants to lower the damage output the party via resistance just give the monster an untyped damage resistance, problem solved. The mages ability to pick two powers at each level and switch between them is much more powerful in utility AND in power level. Point that out to him as well.
#5 Tiarn Sep 23, 2012 3:46:16	There are many builds that specialize in one type of energy and become able to pierce or outright ignore the resistance (sometimes immunity, which is rare) of things that resist that which they specialize in. (The necromancer build from that same class for one) This is done on purpose. Explain to your DM that in the older days of DnD (basically any before 4e), specialization would cause you to completely sit out of a battle if you ran into something that was immune or resistant to your specialty. 4e was designed to go against this, everyone gets to play with everything. The rogue doesn't sit in a corner because the undead attack, the wizard doesn't go hide and take a tea break because a golem walked in on the scene and a firemage doesn't go get a tan because the fire elementals entered. Now she just burns them more! Because 4e was designed for everyone to play, all the time. So let your DM know now, that you won't be sad at all to see a fire elemental, or a tiefling, or a demon, or whatever attack your party. In fact, you relish it because it will allow you to use a special class feature that would have sat there unused otherwise. Let her know you'll thank her afterward.
#6 PestilenceX Sep 23, 2012 5:48:59	Is the DM planning on using a plethora of fire resistant creatures? I can't remember the last time a creature having fire resistance made any sort of difference at all in any game I've run or played. That sounds like a gut reaction from the DM, not a well-thought out objection. Something doesn't add up here. I'm not sure. I do feel the feature wouldn't even find that much use. Its just a nice idea to know you can't be sidelined becuase of fireresistances and later immunities. But t be honest I can't even remember the last time the DM even used a fireresist monster. I'm sure there have been some but..... I do feel it would set a possibly dangerous precedent if the DM would change something just becuase he feels it doesn't feel right.
#7 iserith Sep 23, 2012 11:14:26	Yes, he's probably thinking of some "cool" encounter he wants to throw in at some point with a fire creature that may have resistance. Or he's just having a visceral reaction to it without thinking. (Though both could be going on.) The only person in the party that a fire resistant creature would screw over is you - Mr. Fighter won't have any problems hacking away. That's pretty weak if he just wants to limit you.
#8 salla Sep 23, 2012 12:28:13	There are many builds that specialize in one type of energy and become able to pierce or outright ignore the resistance (sometimes immunity, which is rare) of things that resist that which they specialize in. (The necromancer build from that same class for one) This is done on purpose. Explain to your DM that in the older days of DnD (basically any before 4e), specialization would cause you to completely sit out of a battle if you ran into something that was immune or resistant to your specialty. 4e was designed to go against this, everyone gets to play with everything. The rogue doesn't sit in a corner because the undead attack, the wizard doesn't go hide and take a tea break because a golem walked in on the scene and a firemage doesn't go get a tan because the fire elementals entered. Now she just burns them more! Because 4e was designed for everyone to play, all the time. So let your DM know now, that you won't be sad at all to see a fire elemental, or a tiefling, or a demon, or whatever attack your party. In fact, you relish it because it will allow you to use a special class feature that would have sat there unused otherwise. Let her know you'll thank her afterward. This.
#9 MrCustomer Sep 23, 2012 12:31:38	Yes, he's probably thinking of some "cool" encounter he wants to throw in at some point with a fire creature that may have resistance. Or he's just having a visceral reaction to it without thinking. (Though both could be going on.) The only person in the party that a fire resistant creature would screw over is you - Mr. Fighter won't have any problems hacking away. That's pretty weak if he just wants to limit you. I would also point out to him that one character that can beat a creature's fire resistance is not the same as all the characters beating that resistance. The creature's fire resistance is still there and the creature still benifits from resisting fire attacks from all the other PCs and surroundings. It also makes sense that a specialist shouldn't be useless against the very thing they specialize in. And you can point out the old saying "Fight fire with fire"
#10 PestilenceX Sep 23, 2012 17:52:04	Thanks for all the responses. I send my DM an email telling him how I felt and I think I'll point him to this thread and hope "he sees the light". ;)
#11 evildungeonmaster Sep 23, 2012 18:57:46	Is the DM normally a rational, fair guy? If so, he may have a perfectly good reason but explaining it may act as a spoiler. If he's normally a trustworthy guy, i'd probably just go along with it. In my game you'd likely earn a little extra XP or other rewards just for doing so.