Our last session concluded with the beginning of our first dragon encounter. Unfortunately our *next* session won't be for several weeks, leaving me to stew in anticipation as I consider how best to meet the challenge. Since my character is much smarter than *I* am, maybe you can help me do right by his acumen by giving me some advice. :o)
Here's the setup: We're all 5th level. We have an elven control wizard - thats me - a tiefling feylock, a human warrior, eladrin tactical warlord, and an eladrin bow ranger. We've just finished defeating three trolls - a tough fight that cost me both Sleep and my only Action Point. I have Bigby's Icy Grasp as my remaining daily. I'm afraid we don't have much in the way of interesting magic items - we're pretty damn poor, actually. I'm afraid I'm not as familiar with the specific powers of the other characters. Ask and I may be able to answer.
Here's the situation: We manage to get a short rest after defeating the trolls. No sooner do we stand up from our rest... the floor gives way and we slide into a large wet cave. The resident BLACK DRAGON appears and promptly attacks. No one is surprised, but we lose initiative (this despite me rolling a 28!) Having yet to move, we begin all bunched up for the opening breath weapon. My Shield spell saves me from harm, but most of the others are not so lucky, suffering acid damage atop the (minor) falling damage we'd just recently weathered.
The dragon is airborne, the cave being large enough to allow him flight. I toss an Icy Ray in the hope of bringing him to the ground. Rolled a 3. Dang. Wait! Eleven Accuracy! Reroll! Another 3. *sigh* Not even Eleven Precision helps. We all begin to spread out. Both strikers, Warlock and Ranger, fire and miss. Our warrior moves in closer to the dragon, but sadly can't reach the flying creature (I don't know that he even has a ranged wepaon.) I don't recall offhand what the Warlord did, other than help our Warlock "Shake Off" her ongoing acid damage.
That's where we called it for the night.
The cave is about 100' x 70' and has several areas of rough terrain. There is NO cover to speak of, and the only obvious way OUT is up the shifting pile of rubble that we slid down. Everyone is down at least one daily and down (at most) two healing surges. For illumination, we have my Light spell. The place is dank and wet, with several patches of standing water and rivulets of water seeping down from somewhere above (the dungeon itself is actually beneath a swamp.) I have Thunderwave (19 wisdom), Scorching Burst, Icy Terrain and Bigby's Icy Grasp at my disposal - and one healing potion. As I said, I'm not entirely sure what the others have left... but the troll fight was fairly taxing to the party.
So what do you think? Are we screwed?
Thoughts? Opinions? :-)
The warlock might also try teleporting on top of the dragon and try to ride it (athletics check) and maybe deliver a coup de grace to it.
As for more conventional tactics? Run away?
Note: Plan may backfire. In the event of a backfiring plan, please consult a mortician.
if you're lucky, the DM might say this immobilizes the dragon, if REALLY lucky you might gain CA against the dragon who's sorta frozen in.
i would recommend using this time to run like the wind or going for the last stand. i remember a certain general custard trying the second option though...
run this by the DM on the turn you want to use it, but if possible i would try to move the dragon to pool of water via Thunderwave and proceed to cast icy terrain via action point to hurt the dragon and possibly freeze the water, and the dragon in it, for a short period.
Unfortunately I'm out of action points. :-(
As for more conventional tactics? Run away?
There's only one way out, and it's back up a steep, tumbling pile of debris.
Most adventurers carry rope. Make a lasso. You'll either drag him down or climb him, either way you get to melee him.
That's pretty crazy, but crazy might be just what we need. Whoever lassos the dragon is likely to get "carried away," but might actually be able to pull him/herself on to the beast. The question is: Do we have time to tie a lasso? Hmmm, I wonder if I could quickly tie a lasso with Prestidigitation? You think?
all i can do is say good luck
That's pretty crazy, but crazy might be just what we need. Whoever lassos the dragon is likely to get "carried away," but might actually be able to pull him/herself on to the beast. The question is: Do we have time to tie a lasso? Hmmm, I wonder if I could quickly tie a lasso with Prestidigitation? You think?
A lasso's pretty easy to do. And if you have enough people holding onto the line the shear weight might (depending on the size/speed/strength of the dragon) jerk him up short. Which is likely to bring him down. Hard. At which point you need to be on him like white on rice. So long as he's airborne he will be free to barrage you from a range at which you cannot effectively retaliate.
As for the warrior, do the same but the likelihood of him ever getting reach is low. If you can get a thrown weapon or something to him, let him mark the dragon in attempt to pull him to the ground. If you can get a hit off while he's moving (I'm assuming by warrior you meant fighter) then his movement stops and everyone can get a good hit on him.
Feylock, ranger and you, just keep moving and pounding away at him. Someone will likely need to stand next to the taclord in order to get bonuses from his powers but other than that stay out of breath formation.
Also keep in mind (and pray your DM plays it like this) that dragons at this level rarely (if ever) have a fly(hover) speed so they will need to land if they stop, giving your melee types a chance to wail on it.
Once it hits the ground, the fighter can flank with the taclord and keep it there. Then its just a matter of killing it before it downs the fighter.
Hope that helps!
The real key to this fight is going to be management. The Warlord MUST keep everyone up as long as possible. It'd help to know exactly what everyone's power situation was, but in general, look for immobilize/slow/daze effects first, followed by attack/defense debuffs. Once you can mitigate the damage it's dealing, you'll be surprised at how quickly it's HPs will drop. Also, be very prepared for the cloud of darkness. It's only burst 2, but getting jumped by the dragon while inside of it is pretty hurty.
How old is the dragon? A young black dragon is level 4, while an adult is 11.
If I had to guess, it would be that it's 4th level - which doesn't sound nearly as dangerous as I know it to potentially be. :-)
Also, if the Feylock took Otherwind Stride, you may be in luck.
She does indeed. Otherwind Stride is a huge help to me on the crowd control front.
Also, be very prepared for the cloud of darkness. It's only burst 2, but getting jumped by the dragon while inside of it is pretty hurty.
I can well imagine. Luckily, I should be able to use my 19-Wisdom Thunderwave to knock him WAY out of the darkness. Of course, even without the -5 for concealment, Thunderwave still targets Fort. :-(
Also keep in mind (and pray your DM plays it like this) that dragons at this level rarely (if ever) have a fly(hover) speed so they will need to land if they stop, giving your melee types a chance to wail on it.
Oh, that's right! Wow, that's seriously a load off of my mind - the dragon must land to attack with anything other than breath. Here I was thinking we were going to be battered by flybys. Your tactical advice sounds spot on by the way. Thank you.
Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. :-) We might just pull through this.
It was a case of.. DAILY POWER!! Action point.. ENCOUNTER POWER! for all of us. I did go down at one point but the warlord saved me with a inspiring word (least ithink it's called that). It's just a case of keep plugging away at it, and if it lands grab CA as soon as possible (luckily I had my panther who helped me with that)
Unfortunately I'm out of action points. :-(
If you've done 2 encounters with no rest you get another action point.
TS
I can well imagine. Luckily, I should be able to use my 19-Wisdom Thunderwave to knock him WAY out of the darkness. Of course, even without the -5 for concealment, Thunderwave still targets Fort. :-(
Ah, ah! Probably the most helpful thing you can do is remember -- Close and Area attacks are wholly unaffected by concealment.
Ah, ah! Probably the most helpful thing you can do is remember -- Close and Area attacks are wholly unaffected by concealment.
Hence the "without" in the above sentence. :-) The only factor is whether or not I can hit his Fort defense.
I'm pretty sure anyone nearby the dragon when it swoops in for a melee attack sure be getting OAs. Try bunching up with the rest of the party (after it's used its breath weapon) and hold your actions so that more PCs can get OAs as it attacks.
It sounds like you're describing a flyby. I don't think he can do that. In any case bunching up would be very risky, considering that his breath weapon can recharge randomly and WILL recharge and fire instantly as soon as he's bloodied.
Hence the "without" in the above sentence. :-) The only factor is whether or not I can hit his Fort defense.
Oh... I interpreted the "without" differently. I blame the other ten dozen threads about black dragons where the OP forgot area and close attacks...
Well?! When are you playing again? The suspense is killing me (hopefully not like your dragon...)
As I said, we're not playing again for several weeks. In the meantime, I get to sit here and worry. :-)
Don't worry, I'll let everyone know what happens.
Disbelieve the illusion?
It's funny you mention that. I've already tried to disbelieve twice in this adventure. The whole thing has had an odd surreality to it. I could be an illusion I suppose, but it's not an implausible encounter for our level (assuming its a 4th level dragon.)
Once its on the ground, the fighter needs to base it. A creature can't shift while flying, so if it tries to fly away from the fighter, it will trigger an opportunity attack which the fighter can use to stop the dragon's movement.
The dragon's Cloud of Darkness takes a minor to sustain, so if you can daze him, he'll probably let it dissapear. Also, the Cloud of Darkness does't move with the dragon, so once he puts it in place, fall back out of breath weapon range and have your ranged allies ready an action to attack the moment the dragon leaves the Cloud of Darkness. (If your DM is crafy, he might have the dragon wait for its Cloud of Darkness to recharge and then keep making a new cloud as it moves towards you, but that will keep his movement pretty slow, and your ranged attacks should be able to score at least a few hits during the rounds its will take the dragon to close.) If your fighter has Tide of Iron, or if anyone else has attacks that can push, pull, or slide the target, you can use those to try to get the dragon out of the zone. You can also try having someone with a decent strength score grab the dragon and then pull it out of the cloud of darkness. (A level 5 character with a STR of 18 would need to roll a 14 to grab the dragon, and then he could spend an action point and would need roll a 12 to drag the dragon up to half his speed, all in only one round.)
For future reference, Cloud of Darkness is a zone, so the level 6 Wizard Utility, Dispel Magic, can get rid of the zone. (Though a black dragon has a 50/50 chance of recharging the power each turn.)
The dragon's bite attack, if it hits will on average do 6.5 damage and ongoing 5 acid damage. Its double attack with the claws, it both attacks hit, will do an average of 11 damage. If the DM is smart, the dragon will probably try to use its bite first, since it has a better chance to hit, and only requires a single successful attack roll to deal a 11.5+ damage to an average target. If you have a way of getting acid resistance on the dragon's main target, that will limit the effectiveness of the bite quite a bit. As an alternative, you can have a player that's adjacent to the dragon's target make a DC 15 heal check to allow that player to make an immediate save against the ongoing acid damage, hopefully ending the effect before it even has a chance to hurt.
Also, once the fighter has the dragon marked, don't let the DM abuse the dragon's Tail Slash. The Tail Slash is an immediate reaction, but its still an attack, so if its going against anyone but the fighter, it gets -2 on the attack roll and the fighter gets to make a free basic attack in response. After a few rounds of that, the dragon will probably stop using its tail slash against anyone else that's missing in melee except for the fighter.
There's only one way out, and it's back up a steep, tumbling pile of debris.
If that is the only way out how did the dragon get in or is the opening big enough for it?
Then, Sustain Minor to continue the grab and the hand moves 6 squares per round. Drag him to the ground.
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Or, see if there's a way for you to use Scorching Burst on the cieling in the hopes of bringing the roof in on him. Maybe you can dislodge some rock to drive the dragon to the ground. ((Provided the cieling is within 10 squares/50'))
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Try to survey the room as a minor action. See if you can notice any place that "might" be weakened/concealed opening.. whatever. Get the heck over to it and use your Thunderwave against it. Blow the rock apart with a sonic book and get the frick out of dodge.
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Umm.. Make a Diplomacy Check to offer up the rest of the party as a snack while you go get more adventurers to feed the dragon?
Well, I'd use Bigby's Icy Grasp. It has range of 20, and that could be 20 up/diagonal.. etc.
Then, Sustain Minor to continue the grab and the hand moves 6 squares per round. Drag him to the ground.
He won't have to use Bigby's to drag the dragon to the ground. (I'm not even sure if Bigby's Icy Grasp can do that.) The level 4 black dragon can't (hover), meaning that if it doesn't move at least two squares on its turn, it crashes. (It would have to be the DMs call as to weather or not the crashing dragon takes the Bigby's with it when it falls, or if it simply hangs limp in the Bigby's until the Wizard has a chance to release it.)
My advice would be to make sure you don't use the Bigby's Icy Grasp until AFTER the dragon has used its frightful presense. If you use the Bigby's before and then get stunned, you won't be able to take a minor action to sustain it.
Ok, I need to check the applicable rules, but just because it can't hover, does that mean that it can't just strafe with the acid breath and stay airborne waiting for it to recharge?
Yes, that's true, but if that's the tactic the dragon decides to use, the players shouldn't complain. The level 4 black dragon has a fly speed of (clumsy), so if it wants to keep attacking from the air, it gets a -4 penalty to its attack rolls and defenses, and it will on average only be able to attack one out of every three rounds. The Warlock, Wizard, and Ranger should be able to hit the dragon plenty at range with the penalty to its defenses, and the fighter and warlord can join in if they have javelins or throwing axes, etc. The dragon's lack of (hover) though means that every turn it has to move at least 2 squares or it crashes. That means, that if its dazed it has to use its only action to move, instead of attack, or if its stunned, grabbed, or immobilized, it automatically crashes on its turn unless it finds someway to end the condition and still move.