My toon has more mojo than me - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

My toon has more mojo than me

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
keyes2k4
May 07, 2008 10:21:59 So my friend is running a Warcraft campaign using standard D&D rules and I have been playing a Pandaran bard in it (this means singing, dancing panda). I have 18 charisma, decent mental/physical stats across the board, wash regularly (prestidignation), and as a race, pandaran are neutral in the "big war", so there shouldn't be any racism going on against pandarans.

My problem is that my DM and my group don't seem to get the point that 18 charisma means my character should get at least a little respect from NPC's, and not the immediate blow-off attitude my DM seems to prefer to throw at me no matter how charming I try to be toward her NPC's. I've gotten blown off by innkeepers and treated second-class by other players despite pandaran's neutrality on several occasions. I have just generally been given a hard time for no reason in my opinion.

Now I may just be acting overly sensitive about my DM's opinion of me as a person, but it seems like she (and her fiancee who is also playing in this campaign) may be acting out of some out-of-character dislike of me as a person. It could also simply be because she has only DM'ed once or twice before now and we've been playing together in the same group for several years now, so my "distracted" playing style which has me playing my character in a way which pushes the group further and further away from the plotline may just be getting on her nerves. Something just seems amiss.

A singing, dancing panda has actually been quite fun other than that, I have been used as a distraction/tank several times because of racially enhanced AC and 7-foot tall panda prowess, and I even convinced some furbolgs I was a mute furbolg (who didn't understand their language either lol), but how do I ask for respect outside of these situations without making my DM even more snippy with me?
#2
lsmft
May 07, 2008 10:32:04 You play a dancing panda, and wonder why you aren't getting any respect?

Sorry, I had to just stare blankly at that for a moment or two.

Seriously though, if anthropomorphic pandas are common in the setting and as a race generally respected and not considered to be some so-cute-it-must-be-ironic joke, then your peers are behaving inappropriately. The 18 Cha just makes it more evident that this is the case.
#3
selgard
May 07, 2008 10:49:27 Being "neutral" also means you -are not helping them-.

It may not be enough that you aren't -hindering- them. They know you aren't there to help.

Also- you may be onto something about them bein annoyed at you pushing away the plotline. Signing in with a D&D group has an implied agreement attached that you will at least try to wander over the storyline at least occasionally.

It's a new DM. Cut her some slack. Go with the campaign.
#4
Zherog
May 07, 2008 10:52:45
You play a dancing panda, and wonder why you aren't getting any respect?

Sorry, I had to just stare blankly at that for a moment or two.

While it sounds hooky in a regular D&D game, Pandaran are a "normal" race in the Warcraft universe.
#5
crimsondeath
May 07, 2008 10:52:53
Being "neutral" also means you -are not helping them-.

It may not be enough that you aren't -hindering- them. They know you aren't there to help.

Just because the Pandarans as a race are neutral in the war doesn't necessarily mean that this particular character isn't trying to help the party.
#6
Zuggster
May 07, 2008 12:42:52 The other thing to look at is Inter-Racial relations. In Warcraft, the Bloodelves left the Humans side, in essence, due to racism. A Giant Panda isn't going to change the fact that they are different. Dwarves and Night Elves are just as or even more so racist than the others.

The Horde side (since you didn't mention which side you were playing on) respects people who choose a side. People who stay Nuetral are enemies waiting to happen. The Orcs, Trolls and Tauren have a strong tie between them. The Horde is also the side (in the game) that met and adventured with the Pandarian (in Warcraft III, and WoW refers to it), so they would have the closest starting relationship (to an extent). But again, if you aren't choosing a side, that could be the lack of respect you are receiving.

The only race that is truely nuetral (and accepted) is the Goblins, which act as the Black Market for both sides. But by supporting (selling goods to each side) they are active in the war effort, and doing something.

So, a. What races are you "hitting" on? and b. Which side do you do most of your quests for?

Once you pick a side and doing quests to garner a relationship with a side, it will probably open up some, as now they see you as the singing panda guy, when you want to be seen as the Legendary Tenor Pando, Lord of the Dance.

In most D&D (through the editions) your race comes into play in addition to your charisma. An Orc with a Charisma of 6, when viewed by Orcs, might have an effective 10, where an Elf with a Charisma of 18 could be viewed by Dwarves as a Charisma of 12. That could (or could not) be part of it as well.
#7
drmorganes
May 07, 2008 12:49:46 Actually, your CHA score has absolutely nothing to do with an NPC's initial reaction to you. That has more to do with your race, your class, and how the NPC feels about your race. Modify this by any number of factors and it's entirely plausible that nobody is going to take a singing, dancing anthropomorphic panda seriously.

Woody Hearn has a field day with 'em.
#8
mad_dice_rolla
May 07, 2008 12:50:38
My problem is that my DM and my group don't seem to get the point that 18 charisma means my character should get at least a little respect from NPC's, and not the immediate blow-off attitude my DM seems to prefer to throw at me no matter how charming I try to be toward her NPC's.

I am sure your party knows you are trying to help them, and they should be giving you some respect, which i assume they are because you were talking about the npc's in the campaign. In my opinion i could understand npc's being a little standoffish to you. They shouldn't hate you, but i would think you'd start off slightly on the side of dislike. As it was said earlier, being a neutral race in a setting like warcraft, where faction is very prominent, could affect the opinion of npcs. They know your people as a whole are not trying to help win the war for them, which would make me a little annoyed if i was an inkeeper trying to make a living without worry of my tavern being razed to the ground.

also plot deviation in excess can annoy some people. There are very few exceptions

1 - the deviation can affect the main storyline in a roundabout sort of way

2 - the deviation is utterly hilarious (which may be the case, you are a singing, dancing panda)
#9
kouk
May 07, 2008 12:58:28 Try asking the DM in a respectful way, or just let it go and chalk it up to the campaign not being that way.

Do any of the other PCs get preferential treatment from NPCs? Do they fawn over the rest of the party and recognize their exploits, while you are just the 400 lb panda in the room?

I suspect that NPCs probably don't interact all that much with any of the players, and that is probably a DMing style issue. Some DMs love going deep into NPCs and act out every conversation, and some DMs have NPCs sort of stand around and act as information fonts when the PCs prompt them.

Of course, having a history of trying to behave and act in ways that only get you personal attention at the expense of the party and/or game flow likely does not get you any special points.

If you think you can play in a way more similar to other players for this campaign, and just would like some more "equality" for your pandaman, then try speaking to the DM privately. Perhaps she intentionally is ignoring the panda because in her mind most NPCs really don't like the pandaran because of the way the world works (in her interpretation). You perhaps can make a not-pushy argument on your interpretation of the pandaran and that you believe the other NPCs are "ignoring" you unjustly.

To try and clear up past issues, just apologize. Say, "I know in the past we haven't always gotten along in D&D games. I will try to play this character in a more group-friendly fashion than I have in the past. Let's try to put the past behind us and start fresh." Don't make "behaving" some kind of trade-off for getting NPC recognition though, that won't go over well.
#10
crimsondeath
May 07, 2008 13:14:04
Actually, your CHA score has absolutely nothing to do with an NPC's initial reaction to you. That has more to do with your race, your class, and how the NPC feels about your race.

And how do NPCs know your "class"? I've got a Neanderthal character running around in full plate. How likely do you think it is that NPCs see him and immediately think "Bard"?
#11
Krusk
May 07, 2008 14:20:05
Actually, your CHA score has absolutely nothing to do with an NPC's initial reaction to you. That has more to do with your race, your class, and how the NPC feels about your race. Modify this by any number of factors and it's entirely plausible that nobody is going to take a singing, dancing anthropomorphic panda seriously.

Woody Hearn has a field day with 'em.

Would have to agree with crimsondeath on this. Npcs have no idea of your class.

Cha is a direct representation of your chacters passive bluff and diplomacy scores. It is directly how other people interact with you. Sure it is modified by your race, and obvious background traits. but for the most part, people with an 18 cha have it easier in life than those with a low cha.

Personally i write this up to the DM and other players not liking you, or simply enjoying giving you a hard time. Tell them to knock it off, or just suck it up are your two options. One gives you the result of potentially getting kicked out, and the other has the result of potentially gaming with people who suck.

The DM being new, might mean they are a little upset when you aren't following the tracks she has laid. Go along with it a little, and just suck it up so long as its fun. (it won't be fun if they keep picking on you).
#12
etarnon
May 07, 2008 21:34:27 Hey, I just got a new race for my old Gamma World Campaign.

Macho Pandas with Guns.

Ramboed up with ammo belts, and a Chinese AutoRifle.

There it is.
#13
ashmanonar
May 08, 2008 13:16:23
You play a dancing panda, and wonder why you aren't getting any respect?

Sorry, I had to just stare blankly at that for a moment or two.

Seriously though, if anthropomorphic pandas are common in the setting and as a race generally respected and not considered to be some so-cute-it-must-be-ironic joke, then your peers are behaving inappropriately. The 18 Cha just makes it more evident that this is the case.

Well, Pandarans ARE a joke. They're just not a joke in the way that you think.

They were a joke hero when added into WC3, because the Warcraft designers are mentally unstable. :evillaugh
#14
keyes2k4
May 09, 2008 11:45:47 Thanks everyone for the replies. I really intend to confront this DM about this (or start making deals, cuz I DM another campaign she plays in :D ).

For those still giving advice, I should add that we are playing with a horde/neutral based party (no alliance, 2 horde, about 6 neutral) and we have only really encountered neutral inns.

We did, however, get captured by night elves who (besides being rather powerful and numerous) enlisted us in their service, which for whatever reason our horde characters didn't object to. My opinion is that either the players just don't understand the whole "warring factions" or that they just felt obligated to follow the DM's intentions.

Regardless, with what I know about warcraft, I can't see a tauren and a troll doing an act of treason willingly or even under coercion, they wanted their starting gear back. Then again, the troll did have an intelligence score of 4 and only knew 2 phrases, "san-san help?" and "san-san smash!".

Anyway I think our RP in the campaign is a little out of whack in the first place, so the inkeeper's reactions to a hot-panda are the least of our problems..
#15
nobodyatall
May 09, 2008 12:03:53 The thing is, Pandaren AREN'T a common species in Warcraft. There are like...Very few of them. I can only think of one single Pandaren unit in Warcraft 3, correct me if I'm wrong.

The fact remains, you're playing a dancing freaking panda.
Monster Manual Ghouls have a high charisma too (well, above 10 anyway). But if I decide to play one, I'm not gonna expect everyone to treat me as anything but a slobbering undead monster just because my charisma score is pretty high.
Charisma only goes so far when you're one of the weird, rare, messed-up races.

Edit: That said, the campaign seems to be full of people who don't get Warcraft, run by a rail-roading newbie.
So perhaps you should've thrown them a bone and gone for something a bit more...Standard. It's never fun if your first time DMing, someone brings out the giant dancing pandas or Feral Half-Giant Frenzied Berserkers or Anthropomorphic Octopi or whatever.
#16
Zuggster
May 09, 2008 12:43:50
For those still giving advice, I should add that we are playing with a horde/neutral based party (no alliance, 2 horde, about 6 neutral) and we have only really encountered neutral inns.

We did, however, get captured by night elves who (besides being rather powerful and numerous) enlisted us in their service, which for whatever reason our horde characters didn't object to. My opinion is that either the players just don't understand the whole "warring factions" or that they just felt obligated to follow the DM's intentions.

Regardless, with what I know about warcraft, I can't see a tauren and a troll doing an act of treason willingly or even under coercion, they wanted their starting gear back. Then again, the troll did have an intelligence score of 4 and only knew 2 phrases, "san-san help?" and "san-san smash!".

Well, Night Elf is better than the Human/Dwarf/Gnome faction.

WoW put the factions into 2 real groups, when 4 would have made more sense. Orc/Troll/Tauren, Human/Dwarf/Gnome, Night Elf, Undead. So while the Night Elves and Undead are currently allied with their groups, they are the fringes of each group (not sayign they would ally with the other main team). So as long as the Night Elves aren't asking you to attack Horde bases and expeditions, you shouldn't be too bad off. If they have you attacking Neutral Factions (Furbolgs, Merlocks etc), you can rationalize it out as "killing things you'd be killing for the Horde anyway".

Offhand, what are the other 5 Neutral Player Races?
#17
drackthor
May 09, 2008 14:39:09
The other thing to look at is Inter-Racial relations. In Warcraft, the Bloodelves left the Humans side, in essence, due to racism. A Giant Panda isn't going to change the fact that they are different. Dwarves and Night Elves are just as or even more so racist than the others.

Night Elves, yeah, but Dwarves? I don't see it. Not to mention Trolls and Undead are just as Xenophobic.

The Horde side (since you didn't mention which side you were playing on) respects people who choose a side. People who stay Nuetral are enemies waiting to happen. The Orcs, Trolls and Tauren have a strong tie between them. The Horde is also the side (in the game) that met and adventured with the Pandarian (in Warcraft III, and WoW refers to it), so they would have the closest starting relationship (to an extent). But again, if you aren't choosing a side, that could be the lack of respect you are receiving.

The only race that is truely nuetral (and accepted) is the Goblins, which act as the Black Market for both sides. But by supporting (selling goods to each side) they are active in the war effort, and doing something.

So, a. What races are you "hitting" on? and b. Which side do you do most of your quests for?

Once you pick a side and doing quests to garner a relationship with a side, it will probably open up some, as now they see you as the singing panda guy, when you want to be seen as the Legendary Tenor Pando, Lord of the Dance.

Pretty much agree with most of this.
In most D&D (through the editions) your race comes into play in addition to your charisma. An Orc with a Charisma of 6, when viewed by Orcs, might have an effective 10, where an Elf with a Charisma of 18 could be viewed by Dwarves as a Charisma of 12. That could (or could not) be part of it as well.

Well-said, I agree and I think this explains it very well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 keyes2k4 May 07, 2008 10:21:59	So my friend is running a Warcraft campaign using standard D&D rules and I have been playing a Pandaran bard in it (this means singing, dancing panda). I have 18 charisma, decent mental/physical stats across the board, wash regularly (prestidignation), and as a race, pandaran are neutral in the "big war", so there shouldn't be any racism going on against pandarans. My problem is that my DM and my group don't seem to get the point that 18 charisma means my character should get at least a little respect from NPC's, and not the immediate blow-off attitude my DM seems to prefer to throw at me no matter how charming I try to be toward her NPC's. I've gotten blown off by innkeepers and treated second-class by other players despite pandaran's neutrality on several occasions. I have just generally been given a hard time for no reason in my opinion. Now I may just be acting overly sensitive about my DM's opinion of me as a person, but it seems like she (and her fiancee who is also playing in this campaign) may be acting out of some out-of-character dislike of me as a person. It could also simply be because she has only DM'ed once or twice before now and we've been playing together in the same group for several years now, so my "distracted" playing style which has me playing my character in a way which pushes the group further and further away from the plotline may just be getting on her nerves. Something just seems amiss. A singing, dancing panda has actually been quite fun other than that, I have been used as a distraction/tank several times because of racially enhanced AC and 7-foot tall panda prowess, and I even convinced some furbolgs I was a mute furbolg (who didn't understand their language either lol), but how do I ask for respect outside of these situations without making my DM even more snippy with me?
#2 lsmft May 07, 2008 10:32:04	You play a dancing panda, and wonder why you aren't getting any respect? Sorry, I had to just stare blankly at that for a moment or two. Seriously though, if anthropomorphic pandas are common in the setting and as a race generally respected and not considered to be some so-cute-it-must-be-ironic joke, then your peers are behaving inappropriately. The 18 Cha just makes it more evident that this is the case.
#3 selgard May 07, 2008 10:49:27	Being "neutral" also means you -are not helping them-. It may not be enough that you aren't -hindering- them. They know you aren't there to help. Also- you may be onto something about them bein annoyed at you pushing away the plotline. Signing in with a D&D group has an implied agreement attached that you will at least try to wander over the storyline at least occasionally. It's a new DM. Cut her some slack. Go with the campaign.
#4 Zherog May 07, 2008 10:52:45	You play a dancing panda, and wonder why you aren't getting any respect? Sorry, I had to just stare blankly at that for a moment or two. While it sounds hooky in a regular D&D game, Pandaran are a "normal" race in the Warcraft universe.
#5 crimsondeath May 07, 2008 10:52:53	Being "neutral" also means you -are not helping them-. It may not be enough that you aren't -hindering- them. They know you aren't there to help. Just because the Pandarans as a race are neutral in the war doesn't necessarily mean that this particular character isn't trying to help the party.
#6 Zuggster May 07, 2008 12:42:52	The other thing to look at is Inter-Racial relations. In Warcraft, the Bloodelves left the Humans side, in essence, due to racism. A Giant Panda isn't going to change the fact that they are different. Dwarves and Night Elves are just as or even more so racist than the others. The Horde side (since you didn't mention which side you were playing on) respects people who choose a side. People who stay Nuetral are enemies waiting to happen. The Orcs, Trolls and Tauren have a strong tie between them. The Horde is also the side (in the game) that met and adventured with the Pandarian (in Warcraft III, and WoW refers to it), so they would have the closest starting relationship (to an extent). But again, if you aren't choosing a side, that could be the lack of respect you are receiving. The only race that is truely nuetral (and accepted) is the Goblins, which act as the Black Market for both sides. But by supporting (selling goods to each side) they are active in the war effort, and doing something. So, a. What races are you "hitting" on? and b. Which side do you do most of your quests for? Once you pick a side and doing quests to garner a relationship with a side, it will probably open up some, as now they see you as the singing panda guy, when you want to be seen as the Legendary Tenor Pando, Lord of the Dance. In most D&D (through the editions) your race comes into play in addition to your charisma. An Orc with a Charisma of 6, when viewed by Orcs, might have an effective 10, where an Elf with a Charisma of 18 could be viewed by Dwarves as a Charisma of 12. That could (or could not) be part of it as well.
#7 drmorganes May 07, 2008 12:49:46	Actually, your CHA score has absolutely nothing to do with an NPC's initial reaction to you. That has more to do with your race, your class, and how the NPC feels about your race. Modify this by any number of factors and it's entirely plausible that nobody is going to take a singing, dancing anthropomorphic panda seriously. Woody Hearn has a field day with 'em.
#8 mad_dice_rolla May 07, 2008 12:50:38	My problem is that my DM and my group don't seem to get the point that 18 charisma means my character should get at least a little respect from NPC's, and not the immediate blow-off attitude my DM seems to prefer to throw at me no matter how charming I try to be toward her NPC's. I am sure your party knows you are trying to help them, and they should be giving you some respect, which i assume they are because you were talking about the npc's in the campaign. In my opinion i could understand npc's being a little standoffish to you. They shouldn't hate you, but i would think you'd start off slightly on the side of dislike. As it was said earlier, being a neutral race in a setting like warcraft, where faction is very prominent, could affect the opinion of npcs. They know your people as a whole are not trying to help win the war for them, which would make me a little annoyed if i was an inkeeper trying to make a living without worry of my tavern being razed to the ground. also plot deviation in excess can annoy some people. There are very few exceptions 1 - the deviation can affect the main storyline in a roundabout sort of way 2 - the deviation is utterly hilarious (which may be the case, you are a singing, dancing panda)
#9 kouk May 07, 2008 12:58:28	Try asking the DM in a respectful way, or just let it go and chalk it up to the campaign not being that way. Do any of the other PCs get preferential treatment from NPCs? Do they fawn over the rest of the party and recognize their exploits, while you are just the 400 lb panda in the room? I suspect that NPCs probably don't interact all that much with any of the players, and that is probably a DMing style issue. Some DMs love going deep into NPCs and act out every conversation, and some DMs have NPCs sort of stand around and act as information fonts when the PCs prompt them. Of course, having a history of trying to behave and act in ways that only get you personal attention at the expense of the party and/or game flow likely does not get you any special points. If you think you can play in a way more similar to other players for this campaign, and just would like some more "equality" for your pandaman, then try speaking to the DM privately. Perhaps she intentionally is ignoring the panda because in her mind most NPCs really don't like the pandaran because of the way the world works (in her interpretation). You perhaps can make a not-pushy argument on your interpretation of the pandaran and that you believe the other NPCs are "ignoring" you unjustly. To try and clear up past issues, just apologize. Say, "I know in the past we haven't always gotten along in D&D games. I will try to play this character in a more group-friendly fashion than I have in the past. Let's try to put the past behind us and start fresh." Don't make "behaving" some kind of trade-off for getting NPC recognition though, that won't go over well.
#10 crimsondeath May 07, 2008 13:14:04	Actually, your CHA score has absolutely nothing to do with an NPC's initial reaction to you. That has more to do with your race, your class, and how the NPC feels about your race. And how do NPCs know your "class"? I've got a Neanderthal character running around in full plate. How likely do you think it is that NPCs see him and immediately think "Bard"?
#11 Krusk May 07, 2008 14:20:05	Actually, your CHA score has absolutely nothing to do with an NPC's initial reaction to you. That has more to do with your race, your class, and how the NPC feels about your race. Modify this by any number of factors and it's entirely plausible that nobody is going to take a singing, dancing anthropomorphic panda seriously. Woody Hearn has a field day with 'em. Would have to agree with crimsondeath on this. Npcs have no idea of your class. Cha is a direct representation of your chacters passive bluff and diplomacy scores. It is directly how other people interact with you. Sure it is modified by your race, and obvious background traits. but for the most part, people with an 18 cha have it easier in life than those with a low cha. Personally i write this up to the DM and other players not liking you, or simply enjoying giving you a hard time. Tell them to knock it off, or just suck it up are your two options. One gives you the result of potentially getting kicked out, and the other has the result of potentially gaming with people who suck. The DM being new, might mean they are a little upset when you aren't following the tracks she has laid. Go along with it a little, and just suck it up so long as its fun. (it won't be fun if they keep picking on you).
#12 etarnon May 07, 2008 21:34:27	Hey, I just got a new race for my old Gamma World Campaign. Macho Pandas with Guns. Ramboed up with ammo belts, and a Chinese AutoRifle. There it is.
#13 ashmanonar May 08, 2008 13:16:23	You play a dancing panda, and wonder why you aren't getting any respect? Sorry, I had to just stare blankly at that for a moment or two. Seriously though, if anthropomorphic pandas are common in the setting and as a race generally respected and not considered to be some so-cute-it-must-be-ironic joke, then your peers are behaving inappropriately. The 18 Cha just makes it more evident that this is the case. Well, Pandarans ARE a joke. They're just not a joke in the way that you think. They were a joke hero when added into WC3, because the Warcraft designers are mentally unstable. :evillaugh
#14 keyes2k4 May 09, 2008 11:45:47	Thanks everyone for the replies. I really intend to confront this DM about this (or start making deals, cuz I DM another campaign she plays in :D ). For those still giving advice, I should add that we are playing with a horde/neutral based party (no alliance, 2 horde, about 6 neutral) and we have only really encountered neutral inns. We did, however, get captured by night elves who (besides being rather powerful and numerous) enlisted us in their service, which for whatever reason our horde characters didn't object to. My opinion is that either the players just don't understand the whole "warring factions" or that they just felt obligated to follow the DM's intentions. Regardless, with what I know about warcraft, I can't see a tauren and a troll doing an act of treason willingly or even under coercion, they wanted their starting gear back. Then again, the troll did have an intelligence score of 4 and only knew 2 phrases, "san-san help?" and "san-san smash!". Anyway I think our RP in the campaign is a little out of whack in the first place, so the inkeeper's reactions to a hot-panda are the least of our problems..
#15 nobodyatall May 09, 2008 12:03:53	The thing is, Pandaren AREN'T a common species in Warcraft. There are like...Very few of them. I can only think of one single Pandaren unit in Warcraft 3, correct me if I'm wrong. The fact remains, you're playing a dancing freaking panda. Monster Manual Ghouls have a high charisma too (well, above 10 anyway). But if I decide to play one, I'm not gonna expect everyone to treat me as anything but a slobbering undead monster just because my charisma score is pretty high. Charisma only goes so far when you're one of the weird, rare, messed-up races. Edit: That said, the campaign seems to be full of people who don't get Warcraft, run by a rail-roading newbie. So perhaps you should've thrown them a bone and gone for something a bit more...Standard. It's never fun if your first time DMing, someone brings out the giant dancing pandas or Feral Half-Giant Frenzied Berserkers or Anthropomorphic Octopi or whatever.
#16 Zuggster May 09, 2008 12:43:50	For those still giving advice, I should add that we are playing with a horde/neutral based party (no alliance, 2 horde, about 6 neutral) and we have only really encountered neutral inns. We did, however, get captured by night elves who (besides being rather powerful and numerous) enlisted us in their service, which for whatever reason our horde characters didn't object to. My opinion is that either the players just don't understand the whole "warring factions" or that they just felt obligated to follow the DM's intentions. Regardless, with what I know about warcraft, I can't see a tauren and a troll doing an act of treason willingly or even under coercion, they wanted their starting gear back. Then again, the troll did have an intelligence score of 4 and only knew 2 phrases, "san-san help?" and "san-san smash!". Well, Night Elf is better than the Human/Dwarf/Gnome faction. WoW put the factions into 2 real groups, when 4 would have made more sense. Orc/Troll/Tauren, Human/Dwarf/Gnome, Night Elf, Undead. So while the Night Elves and Undead are currently allied with their groups, they are the fringes of each group (not sayign they would ally with the other main team). So as long as the Night Elves aren't asking you to attack Horde bases and expeditions, you shouldn't be too bad off. If they have you attacking Neutral Factions (Furbolgs, Merlocks etc), you can rationalize it out as "killing things you'd be killing for the Horde anyway". Offhand, what are the other 5 Neutral Player Races?
#17 drackthor May 09, 2008 14:39:09	The other thing to look at is Inter-Racial relations. In Warcraft, the Bloodelves left the Humans side, in essence, due to racism. A Giant Panda isn't going to change the fact that they are different. Dwarves and Night Elves are just as or even more so racist than the others. Night Elves, yeah, but Dwarves? I don't see it. Not to mention Trolls and Undead are just as Xenophobic. The Horde side (since you didn't mention which side you were playing on) respects people who choose a side. People who stay Nuetral are enemies waiting to happen. The Orcs, Trolls and Tauren have a strong tie between them. The Horde is also the side (in the game) that met and adventured with the Pandarian (in Warcraft III, and WoW refers to it), so they would have the closest starting relationship (to an extent). But again, if you aren't choosing a side, that could be the lack of respect you are receiving. The only race that is truely nuetral (and accepted) is the Goblins, which act as the Black Market for both sides. But by supporting (selling goods to each side) they are active in the war effort, and doing something. So, a. What races are you "hitting" on? and b. Which side do you do most of your quests for? Once you pick a side and doing quests to garner a relationship with a side, it will probably open up some, as now they see you as the singing panda guy, when you want to be seen as the Legendary Tenor Pando, Lord of the Dance. Pretty much agree with most of this. In most D&D (through the editions) your race comes into play in addition to your charisma. An Orc with a Charisma of 6, when viewed by Orcs, might have an effective 10, where an Elf with a Charisma of 18 could be viewed by Dwarves as a Charisma of 12. That could (or could not) be part of it as well. Well-said, I agree and I think this explains it very well.