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Nasty Ogres

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
raith_darillian_dup
Apr 06, 2009 10:21:12 All right this is the situation our party is at this moment, we are all lvl 1 Evil characters (with 500 xp). Our party has a Cleric, a Bard, a Rogue and a Druid (me)* in 3.5. Our mission is to find a chest we supose (based on information), is inside a cave. we don,t know exactly how big is the cave, but what we know is that there are ogres in that cave.
Our plan is to send me the Druid to disctract the Ogre in the cave so he will chase me (I have a horse as an animal companion) and then send the Rogue to get the chest. (the rogue has explored some small portion of the cave).
the rogue is alreadye near the entrance of the cave moving stealthy, and I,m in front of an Ogre who is watching the entrance (The Ogre hasn,t notice me I,m still too far from him).
So anyone has suggestions or ideas for our party to succed especially for a way to distract him and make some Ogres chase me?. Thanks in advance.

*There was also a Wizard but the poor guy was killed by an Ogre (Yes our DM won,t hetistate to kill any on our party, we have a party in our previous session but it was killed mostly by an Ogre). so the player who was running that wizard can comeback with another character.
#2
crossblade
Apr 06, 2009 13:17:48
suggestions or ideas .....[to] make some Ogres chase me?

Yell "Your mother was a goblin and his father smells of Elderberries!"
It'll get its attention and make it chase you.
#3
Dane_McArdy
Apr 06, 2009 13:36:34 Level 1, 3.5 characters against Ogres?

I guess if the adventure is to steal from the ogre, rather then fight it, sure.

Cover yourself with tasty condiments, and do a naked dance in front of the ogre, singing, free meal! Come and get it!
#4
raith_darillian_dup
Apr 06, 2009 20:25:56 Yes they,re all lvl 1 our prior characters were lvl 2 and close to get to 3 but they were killed by an Ogre.
#5
goblin_pride
Apr 08, 2009 10:28:12
Yes they,re all lvl 1 our prior characters were lvl 2 and close to get to 3 but they were killed by an Ogre.

Did the word "run" ever cross your mind?

Is your bard sneaky? Bards and rogues both can sneak around, why are you worrying about distracting the ogres? Wait for the ogres to wander out looking for food and send the scouting party in to get the goods.
#6
pfunked
Apr 08, 2009 10:38:01 Ogres are notoriously stupid (4 int), it's probably easy to trick them into giving you the chest.

Find a huge chest, like 8' wide. Fill it with whatever. Offer to trade the ogre for his smaller, thus obviously less valuable chest.
#7
person34
Apr 08, 2009 12:04:38 String a trip wire across the entrance to the cave, then have two players ready with nets to encase the ogre. Then drop a rock on his head. Hopefully this will knock him out. While this is happening someone slips into the cave grabs the chest and everyone runs. Run like hell to be exact. And remember you don't have to be faster than the ogre, just faster than one other person.
#8
1_ton_ghost
Apr 08, 2009 13:56:20 Is this a 1-way cave? Ideally, if there's another way in, a backdoor approach might be good for the rogue, and possibly entitle a flank when the remainder enters the front.

-Waiting them out is always actionable too. They gotta' sleep sometime so engaging them in fewer numbers is preferable. If 1 guards, get around him somehow and coup de gras the rest while they slumber. Some might go out to get food, kill the remainder. Whatever, just reduce the amount of combatants if you can. Force a choke point if you must (mouth of cave?), keep it 1:1

-Do not attempt to negotiate w/ them. It's a fool's errand. They're stupid and very evil. Like bullets and guns, something is gonna' happen.

-Does a Cleric's Command (1st lvl) only work on humanoids, not orgres (giants)? Their Will saves are their Achilles Heels, so use that. Command a conscious guard to "sleep" while the others sleep, kill him, move in, repeat.
Druid's Entangle is no joke either. This is definetly make your ranged combat a lot more attractive while they flounder.
Don't forget Cantrips and Orisons. A few well played spells can have significant benefits vs. stupid advensaries. Just a Ghost Sound of one of the other orgres can be enough to bait one to an ambush site.

-Find a food source, poison it. Leave it to them. Wait, when they're weak (beware, high Fort Save though), attack. Drugs and alcohol might work too.

-Discretely make a large amount of thatch/brush outside of cave, ignite it to asphyxiate them, create smoke concealment, etc. Ideally, you want them to get burned badly if they must cross it, hopefully catch on fire themselves. A fire in the cave is even better, especially if you can seal the outside.

-Create dummies to give the illusion of more enemies; strawman/scarecrow tethered to the horse, far enough out to enforce a crap Spot penalty, etc. When they pursue, go in, rob them, leave some nasty traps, etc.

Realistically, 3 lvl 1's vs. a CR 3 is gonna' be rough as Hell. They got Reach too, so try and keep it ranged combat if you can. If only you had a lance (and proficiency) w/ that horse, it might give you the edge you need.
#9
arcana_man
Apr 08, 2009 15:10:42 Okay... well i say you pull a fast one on your dm.... instead of stealing from them... kill them... then steal from them... get the xp then the gp... you know... so this is how you could do it... have your part get together and dig a big hole... im talking pokemon team rocket stylez.. then cover it with long leaves such as branch like leaves.. you know? then all you gotta do is tount them while on your horse .. get 1 or two to chase you... then lead them to the hold and have your horse jump over the hole... then when they fall into the hole... quickly... bury them alive....although this probly wont work on all of them it will get you and your group alot of xp and less orcs to take out.... as far as the rest... say they are like... looking as eachother... "where did so and so go ...>.>... chances are they will stop chasing you after a while relizing that there is a trap out there... and btw are these CH 3 ogres or 7.... CR 3's only have 29 hp...you wizard should of cast sleep on it them you guys could of came in all together and did a group cupe de grace... for sure killing him....if your wizard had a better spell list guys could have killed a few ogres and got the treasure... but your just not that danm good of a group are you... i like your dm though he seems cool

Come to think of it... as long as they arent incredicbly stupid they might relize if they keep moving while you try and bury them they will stay above the dirt... try casting create water to fill half the hole with water... eventually they would become fatigued and drown... but ulltimatly the best idea would be to shoot them with ranged attacks.. they might have a javalin or two but other than that they are helpless... cause if you just let them sit there... they my roar and attrack allies.... they get a + on climb... so doing somthing like create water if only to spray the sides of the hole with water so it gets muddy ... so every time they try to climb out they lose they're grip and fall...

Btw they are large and have .. we are talking 9 feet tall.. with arms twice the length of they're legs... so when you dig this hole ... it better be like... 30 ft deep our he will just jump and his arms will reach the top... and another thing.. the dm will probly give him a relfex save vs stopping himself from falling into the hole... personnaly ... if someone is charing at you and they happen to not notice a pittrap... they shouldnt get a relfex save... but if your dm insist on it... get some players to be hiding nearby with some rope... then when you pass by they can pull the robe as the ogre follows... ...**** if he is holding onto the ledge trying to pull himself back up stab his hands
... trapmaking skills useful to lowbies... becuase most of the stronger oppenents you face are stupid brutes...

haha and even if he noticed the hole... do to poor hide skills... he isnt going to stopp.. he thinks you jumped it... he can jump it... and he probly would be able to as well.... if it werent for your allies... with the rope to trip him... lol.. cover up the robe too...your dm should camend you for my work...
#10
goblin_pride
Apr 08, 2009 16:27:50
...your dm should camend you for my work...

Or think he's an idiot for expecting a 1st level caster's Create Water to fill a hole big enough to trap an ogre.
#11
arcana_man
Apr 08, 2009 16:59:39 <>

Ha...take that.....who listens to goblins anyways....i have half a mind to polymorph you into a vampire and telecheneticly thrust you into a lake

Normaly i would say re-read my suggestions... your not here to be helpful... take a hike

people who hover over these forums just to insult people should get the **** out
#12
entropy_judge
Apr 08, 2009 20:23:13
i have half a mind to polymorph you into a vampire and telecheneticly thrust you into a lake

Lakes aren't running water. And I'd read your suggestion to see which of you makes the better point, but your post is barely legible.
#13
arcana_man
Apr 08, 2009 20:36:06 How rude...
#14
arcana_man
Apr 08, 2009 20:38:26 But i would like to reinstate what i said erlier

people who hover over these forums just to insult people should get the **** out

#15
goblin_pride
Apr 09, 2009 6:42:22
<>

I was wondering if you would catch the typo in this line.

Although if you want to be taken seriously, deleting the entire line, if not the entire post would earn you a bit more credibility.

As to the ogres, the best chance is for the druid to cast Obscuring Mist inside the cave and the rogue and bard sneaking in to snatch whatever is in the chest. Any kind of confrontation with the ogres is going to end in at least one fatality* in the party.

*I've seen parties of 4th level lose members against an encounter with 3 ogres, a first level party doesn't stand a chance against the amount of damage even a single ogre can dish out.
#16
runestar
Apr 09, 2009 6:55:25 How many ogres do you expect there to be?

If you can get the wizard back, he can try to prepare sleep (ogres have a will save of just +1, so a sleep spell can take out 1 with some luck. Cross your fingers...). Daze could also work to disable an ogre temporarily for 1 round. Alternatively, have the druid stymie them with entangle, then pelt them with whatever ranged weapons you can muster.

It is not entirely an impossible fight, but will require some planning and a little luck.
#17
1_ton_ghost
Apr 09, 2009 10:19:29
Okay... well i say you pull a fast one on your dm.... instead of stealing from them... kill them... then steal from them... get the xp then the gp

Once again, given CR discrepancies, this "fast one" is likely a fast TPK if frontal assault is in consideration. Wasn't theft preferable to a fight per the OP? Hence his dismay at 3 CR 3's is an EL of 7 vs. 3 1st lvl PC's, yes?

...dig a big hole <snip, extraneous>...

You mean create a pit trap I think.

then all you gotta do is tount them while on your horse .. get 1 or two to chase you... then lead them to the hold and have your horse jump over the hole...

Now, this part, in theory, is kinda' sound. Rogue or Bard's Bluff might lend this strategy some credibility to taunt them and bait them to the hole. But there's a major design flaw in your plan:

then when they fall into the hole... quickly... bury them alive

You're assuming 2 10' X 10' giants will both Dbl Move or Charge, side by side no less, into a pit trap, correct? At the same time too?
So, you likely need a pit about 20 ft wide, and much deeper than their height given relative reach. Do you know how long that would take 4 PCs of Medium build, even w/ good Strength, Con, shovels for the lot of them, and the Endurance feat? This is a herculean effort...and to be discrete about it too to insure the "plan" goes smoothly? Highly unlikely.
Too complicated, too much effort, no real guarantee that it'll even work.
This would be more of an excavation than 4 guys digging a pit.

....although this probly wont work on all of them it will get you and your group alot of xp and less orcs to take out.... as far as the rest... say they are like... looking as eachother... "where did so and so go ...>.>... chances are they will stop chasing you after a while relizing that there is a trap out there... and btw are these CH 3 ogres or 7.... CR 3's only have 29 hp...

Sung Tzu and Rommel are pulling their hair out right about now. Not to be rude, but the liklihood of this working is slim to nill IMO.

you wizard should of cast sleep on it them you guys could of came in all together and did a group cupe de grace... for sure killing him....if your wizard had a better spell list guys could have killed a few ogres and got the treasure... but your just not that danm good of a group are you... i like your dm though he seems cool

No Wzd I thought he said. Sleep is, what 4 HD or so. What's an Orgre's HD? What is the sum total of 4 Ogres' HD? Do math. Not even sure if Sleep works on non-humanoids.

...they might relize if they keep moving while you try and bury them they will stay above the dirt... try casting create water to fill half the hole with water... eventually they would become fatigued and drown

This won't work on a few levels. The obvious being caster lvl of Create Water's "output" and the sheer volume of a 20' X 20' X 15' (at least) pit trap.

... but ulltimatly the best idea would be to shoot them with ranged attacks

This is not the best idea either. Best idea would be to leave it the Hell alone as the threat is beyond "Dire" per the DMG. Something like EL of 5 more than the avg party lvl (1). That's bad, really bad. Someone, if not all, will die.

.. they might have a javalin or two but other than that they are helpless... cause if you just let them sit there... they my roar and attrack allies.... they get a + on climb... so doing somthing like create water if only to spray the sides of the hole with water so it gets muddy ... so every time they try to climb out they lose they're grip and fall...

Not helpless, but hindered. Big big difference. Seriously though, give up on the pit trap idea. IN the DAYS IT WOULD TAKE to excavate it near the ogre's lair, the chances of a wondering monster finding you (at a disadvantage no less [you're stuck in a hole!]) during the dig, much less the ogres are good. More work than worry.

... trapmaking skills useful to lowbies... becuase most of the stronger oppenents you face are stupid brutes...

Craft Trapmaking, you'd need a 15 to create even a basic "Snare", "Duster", "Sticker", etc. per the DMG II. Not a bad avenue to explore, but it's assuming the PCs even took ranks in it.

haha and even if he noticed the hole... do to poor hide skills... he isnt going to stopp.. he thinks you jumped it... he can jump it... and he probly would be able to as well.... if it werent for your allies... with the rope to trip him... lol.. cover up the robe too...your dm should camend you for my work...

This simply won't work. Serious misallocation of valuable party resources. I would highly advise you to reconsider in light of basic mechanics let alone tactical strategy.

goblin_pride: the best chance is for the druid to cast Obscuring Mist inside the cave and the rogue and bard sneaking in to snatch whatever is in the chest. Any kind of confrontation with the ogres is going to end in at least one fatality* in the party.

Not a bad idea, but terribly risky as well. Granting a lot of Concealment (the spell) in the area is well for the rogue (no one else effectively given Hide, etc), but pretty much tells, even stupid creatures, "Something is going on," due to mist rolling in. They will be alerted to the possibility of a fight (last thing you want). Plus, Searching, not even looting a 5ft square, is 1 Full Rnd Action. Does the rogue have Darkvision (caves are dark)? How many rounds will the spell last? How many rounds will it take to get in, locate various treaures (multiple squares?), steal them, all the while evading multiple ogre detection on home turf, and make it out w/ all the goodies? I'm thinking Bilbo had an easier time as a rogue vs. Smog in his cave than this poor rogue...

*I've seen parties of 4th level lose members against an encounter with 3 ogres, a first level party doesn't stand a chance against the amount of damage even a single ogre can dish out.

QFT. It certainly does not look very promising. And by that I mean, imminent demise.

To be fair though, there are exceptions; my boy Steve (2nd lvl), and a DMNPC around, uh, 2nd lvl as well, engaged and defeated a f'ing troll (CR 5 IIRC). We couldn't believe it. He insisted that we stage encounters geographically, not stage them by CR. ie)"The Troll Moors" are loaded w/, what do you know, trolls, not goblins/orcs that would be appropriate challenges per 'x'. It's more realistic, but damn, it can get horrifyingly real fast.
Of course, there's something to be said for clever strategy too; alchemist fire and terrain negotiation go a long way to putting down a troll I guess.
#18
warcolonel
Apr 09, 2009 12:34:28 The pit idea has potential. Doesn't need to be as deep, and if properly designed can work. The key is pushing it further then just a pit. A 10'x10'x10' pit can work. Try filling it with oil; then again, I think that it is around 7000 gallons of space. Spikes can work, but require a higher DC to make. You just have to think outside of the box.

I doubt traps will work in general, though. These things will just be able to break anything you come up with through brute force. Instead, distraction and evasion while another party member gets the goods may be the only way.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 raith_darillian_dup Apr 06, 2009 10:21:12	All right this is the situation our party is at this moment, we are all lvl 1 Evil characters (with 500 xp). Our party has a Cleric, a Bard, a Rogue and a Druid (me)* in 3.5. Our mission is to find a chest we supose (based on information), is inside a cave. we don,t know exactly how big is the cave, but what we know is that there are ogres in that cave. Our plan is to send me the Druid to disctract the Ogre in the cave so he will chase me (I have a horse as an animal companion) and then send the Rogue to get the chest. (the rogue has explored some small portion of the cave). the rogue is alreadye near the entrance of the cave moving stealthy, and I,m in front of an Ogre who is watching the entrance (The Ogre hasn,t notice me I,m still too far from him). So anyone has suggestions or ideas for our party to succed especially for a way to distract him and make some Ogres chase me?. Thanks in advance. *There was also a Wizard but the poor guy was killed by an Ogre (Yes our DM won,t hetistate to kill any on our party, we have a party in our previous session but it was killed mostly by an Ogre). so the player who was running that wizard can comeback with another character.
#2 crossblade Apr 06, 2009 13:17:48	suggestions or ideas .....[to] make some Ogres chase me? Yell "Your mother was a goblin and his father smells of Elderberries!" It'll get its attention and make it chase you.
#3 Dane_McArdy Apr 06, 2009 13:36:34	Level 1, 3.5 characters against Ogres? I guess if the adventure is to steal from the ogre, rather then fight it, sure. Cover yourself with tasty condiments, and do a naked dance in front of the ogre, singing, free meal! Come and get it!
#4 raith_darillian_dup Apr 06, 2009 20:25:56	Yes they,re all lvl 1 our prior characters were lvl 2 and close to get to 3 but they were killed by an Ogre.
#5 goblin_pride Apr 08, 2009 10:28:12	Yes they,re all lvl 1 our prior characters were lvl 2 and close to get to 3 but they were killed by an Ogre. Did the word "run" ever cross your mind? Is your bard sneaky? Bards and rogues both can sneak around, why are you worrying about distracting the ogres? Wait for the ogres to wander out looking for food and send the scouting party in to get the goods.
#6 pfunked Apr 08, 2009 10:38:01	Ogres are notoriously stupid (4 int), it's probably easy to trick them into giving you the chest. Find a huge chest, like 8' wide. Fill it with whatever. Offer to trade the ogre for his smaller, thus obviously less valuable chest.
#7 person34 Apr 08, 2009 12:04:38	String a trip wire across the entrance to the cave, then have two players ready with nets to encase the ogre. Then drop a rock on his head. Hopefully this will knock him out. While this is happening someone slips into the cave grabs the chest and everyone runs. Run like hell to be exact. And remember you don't have to be faster than the ogre, just faster than one other person.
#8 1_ton_ghost Apr 08, 2009 13:56:20	Is this a 1-way cave? Ideally, if there's another way in, a backdoor approach might be good for the rogue, and possibly entitle a flank when the remainder enters the front. -Waiting them out is always actionable too. They gotta' sleep sometime so engaging them in fewer numbers is preferable. If 1 guards, get around him somehow and coup de gras the rest while they slumber. Some might go out to get food, kill the remainder. Whatever, just reduce the amount of combatants if you can. Force a choke point if you must (mouth of cave?), keep it 1:1 -Do not attempt to negotiate w/ them. It's a fool's errand. They're stupid and very evil. Like bullets and guns, something is gonna' happen. -Does a Cleric's Command (1st lvl) only work on humanoids, not orgres (giants)? Their Will saves are their Achilles Heels, so use that. Command a conscious guard to "sleep" while the others sleep, kill him, move in, repeat. Druid's Entangle is no joke either. This is definetly make your ranged combat a lot more attractive while they flounder. Don't forget Cantrips and Orisons. A few well played spells can have significant benefits vs. stupid advensaries. Just a Ghost Sound of one of the other orgres can be enough to bait one to an ambush site. -Find a food source, poison it. Leave it to them. Wait, when they're weak (beware, high Fort Save though), attack. Drugs and alcohol might work too. -Discretely make a large amount of thatch/brush outside of cave, ignite it to asphyxiate them, create smoke concealment, etc. Ideally, you want them to get burned badly if they must cross it, hopefully catch on fire themselves. A fire in the cave is even better, especially if you can seal the outside. -Create dummies to give the illusion of more enemies; strawman/scarecrow tethered to the horse, far enough out to enforce a crap Spot penalty, etc. When they pursue, go in, rob them, leave some nasty traps, etc. Realistically, 3 lvl 1's vs. a CR 3 is gonna' be rough as Hell. They got Reach too, so try and keep it ranged combat if you can. If only you had a lance (and proficiency) w/ that horse, it might give you the edge you need.
#9 arcana_man Apr 08, 2009 15:10:42	Okay... well i say you pull a fast one on your dm.... instead of stealing from them... kill them... then steal from them... get the xp then the gp... you know... so this is how you could do it... have your part get together and dig a big hole... im talking pokemon team rocket stylez.. then cover it with long leaves such as branch like leaves.. you know? then all you gotta do is tount them while on your horse .. get 1 or two to chase you... then lead them to the hold and have your horse jump over the hole... then when they fall into the hole... quickly... bury them alive....although this probly wont work on all of them it will get you and your group alot of xp and less orcs to take out.... as far as the rest... say they are like... looking as eachother... "where did so and so go ...>.>... chances are they will stop chasing you after a while relizing that there is a trap out there... and btw are these CH 3 ogres or 7.... CR 3's only have 29 hp...you wizard should of cast sleep on it them you guys could of came in all together and did a group cupe de grace... for sure killing him....if your wizard had a better spell list guys could have killed a few ogres and got the treasure... but your just not that danm good of a group are you... i like your dm though he seems cool Come to think of it... as long as they arent incredicbly stupid they might relize if they keep moving while you try and bury them they will stay above the dirt... try casting create water to fill half the hole with water... eventually they would become fatigued and drown... but ulltimatly the best idea would be to shoot them with ranged attacks.. they might have a javalin or two but other than that they are helpless... cause if you just let them sit there... they my roar and attrack allies.... they get a + on climb... so doing somthing like create water if only to spray the sides of the hole with water so it gets muddy ... so every time they try to climb out they lose they're grip and fall... Btw they are large and have .. we are talking 9 feet tall.. with arms twice the length of they're legs... so when you dig this hole ... it better be like... 30 ft deep our he will just jump and his arms will reach the top... and another thing.. the dm will probly give him a relfex save vs stopping himself from falling into the hole... personnaly ... if someone is charing at you and they happen to not notice a pittrap... they shouldnt get a relfex save... but if your dm insist on it... get some players to be hiding nearby with some rope... then when you pass by they can pull the robe as the ogre follows... ...**** if he is holding onto the ledge trying to pull himself back up stab his hands ... trapmaking skills useful to lowbies... becuase most of the stronger oppenents you face are stupid brutes... haha and even if he noticed the hole... do to poor hide skills... he isnt going to stopp.. he thinks you jumped it... he can jump it... and he probly would be able to as well.... if it werent for your allies... with the rope to trip him... lol.. cover up the robe too...your dm should camend you for my work...
#10 goblin_pride Apr 08, 2009 16:27:50	...your dm should camend you for my work... Or think he's an idiot for expecting a 1st level caster's Create Water to fill a hole big enough to trap an ogre.
#11 arcana_man Apr 08, 2009 16:59:39	<> Ha...take that.....who listens to goblins anyways....i have half a mind to polymorph you into a vampire and telecheneticly thrust you into a lake Normaly i would say re-read my suggestions... your not here to be helpful... take a hike people who hover over these forums just to insult people should get the **** out
#12 entropy_judge Apr 08, 2009 20:23:13	i have half a mind to polymorph you into a vampire and telecheneticly thrust you into a lake Lakes aren't running water. And I'd read your suggestion to see which of you makes the better point, but your post is barely legible.
#13 arcana_man Apr 08, 2009 20:36:06	How rude...
#14 arcana_man Apr 08, 2009 20:38:26	But i would like to reinstate what i said erlier people who hover over these forums just to insult people should get the **** out
#15 goblin_pride Apr 09, 2009 6:42:22	<> I was wondering if you would catch the typo in this line. Although if you want to be taken seriously, deleting the entire line, if not the entire post would earn you a bit more credibility. As to the ogres, the best chance is for the druid to cast Obscuring Mist inside the cave and the rogue and bard sneaking in to snatch whatever is in the chest. Any kind of confrontation with the ogres is going to end in at least one fatality* in the party. *I've seen parties of 4th level lose members against an encounter with 3 ogres, a first level party doesn't stand a chance against the amount of damage even a single ogre can dish out.
#16 runestar Apr 09, 2009 6:55:25	How many ogres do you expect there to be? If you can get the wizard back, he can try to prepare sleep (ogres have a will save of just +1, so a sleep spell can take out 1 with some luck. Cross your fingers...). Daze could also work to disable an ogre temporarily for 1 round. Alternatively, have the druid stymie them with entangle, then pelt them with whatever ranged weapons you can muster. It is not entirely an impossible fight, but will require some planning and a little luck.
#17 1_ton_ghost Apr 09, 2009 10:19:29	Okay... well i say you pull a fast one on your dm.... instead of stealing from them... kill them... then steal from them... get the xp then the gp Once again, given CR discrepancies, this "fast one" is likely a fast TPK if frontal assault is in consideration. Wasn't theft preferable to a fight per the OP? Hence his dismay at 3 CR 3's is an EL of 7 vs. 3 1st lvl PC's, yes? ...dig a big hole <snip, extraneous>... You mean create a pit trap I think. then all you gotta do is tount them while on your horse .. get 1 or two to chase you... then lead them to the hold and have your horse jump over the hole... Now, this part, in theory, is kinda' sound. Rogue or Bard's Bluff might lend this strategy some credibility to taunt them and bait them to the hole. But there's a major design flaw in your plan: then when they fall into the hole... quickly... bury them alive You're assuming 2 10' X 10' giants will both Dbl Move or Charge, side by side no less, into a pit trap, correct? At the same time too? So, you likely need a pit about 20 ft wide, and much deeper than their height given relative reach. Do you know how long that would take 4 PCs of Medium build, even w/ good Strength, Con, shovels for the lot of them, and the Endurance feat? This is a herculean effort...and to be discrete about it too to insure the "plan" goes smoothly? Highly unlikely. Too complicated, too much effort, no real guarantee that it'll even work. This would be more of an excavation than 4 guys digging a pit. ....although this probly wont work on all of them it will get you and your group alot of xp and less orcs to take out.... as far as the rest... say they are like... looking as eachother... "where did so and so go ...>.>... chances are they will stop chasing you after a while relizing that there is a trap out there... and btw are these CH 3 ogres or 7.... CR 3's only have 29 hp... Sung Tzu and Rommel are pulling their hair out right about now. Not to be rude, but the liklihood of this working is slim to nill IMO. you wizard should of cast sleep on it them you guys could of came in all together and did a group cupe de grace... for sure killing him....if your wizard had a better spell list guys could have killed a few ogres and got the treasure... but your just not that danm good of a group are you... i like your dm though he seems cool No Wzd I thought he said. Sleep is, what 4 HD or so. What's an Orgre's HD? What is the sum total of 4 Ogres' HD? Do math. Not even sure if Sleep works on non-humanoids. ...they might relize if they keep moving while you try and bury them they will stay above the dirt... try casting create water to fill half the hole with water... eventually they would become fatigued and drown This won't work on a few levels. The obvious being caster lvl of Create Water's "output" and the sheer volume of a 20' X 20' X 15' (at least) pit trap. ... but ulltimatly the best idea would be to shoot them with ranged attacks This is not the best idea either. Best idea would be to leave it the Hell alone as the threat is beyond "Dire" per the DMG. Something like EL of 5 more than the avg party lvl (1). That's bad, really bad. Someone, if not all, will die. .. they might have a javalin or two but other than that they are helpless... cause if you just let them sit there... they my roar and attrack allies.... they get a + on climb... so doing somthing like create water if only to spray the sides of the hole with water so it gets muddy ... so every time they try to climb out they lose they're grip and fall... Not helpless, but hindered. Big big difference. Seriously though, give up on the pit trap idea. IN the DAYS IT WOULD TAKE to excavate it near the ogre's lair, the chances of a wondering monster finding you (at a disadvantage no less [you're stuck in a hole!]) during the dig, much less the ogres are good. More work than worry. ... trapmaking skills useful to lowbies... becuase most of the stronger oppenents you face are stupid brutes... Craft Trapmaking, you'd need a 15 to create even a basic "Snare", "Duster", "Sticker", etc. per the DMG II. Not a bad avenue to explore, but it's assuming the PCs even took ranks in it. haha and even if he noticed the hole... do to poor hide skills... he isnt going to stopp.. he thinks you jumped it... he can jump it... and he probly would be able to as well.... if it werent for your allies... with the rope to trip him... lol.. cover up the robe too...your dm should camend you for my work... This simply won't work. Serious misallocation of valuable party resources. I would highly advise you to reconsider in light of basic mechanics let alone tactical strategy. goblin_pride: the best chance is for the druid to cast Obscuring Mist inside the cave and the rogue and bard sneaking in to snatch whatever is in the chest. Any kind of confrontation with the ogres is going to end in at least one fatality* in the party. Not a bad idea, but terribly risky as well. Granting a lot of Concealment (the spell) in the area is well for the rogue (no one else effectively given Hide, etc), but pretty much tells, even stupid creatures, "Something is going on," due to mist rolling in. They will be alerted to the possibility of a fight (last thing you want). Plus, Searching, not even looting a 5ft square, is 1 Full Rnd Action. Does the rogue have Darkvision (caves are dark)? How many rounds will the spell last? How many rounds will it take to get in, locate various treaures (multiple squares?), steal them, all the while evading multiple ogre detection on home turf, and make it out w/ all the goodies? I'm thinking Bilbo had an easier time as a rogue vs. Smog in his cave than this poor rogue... *I've seen parties of 4th level lose members against an encounter with 3 ogres, a first level party doesn't stand a chance against the amount of damage even a single ogre can dish out. QFT. It certainly does not look very promising. And by that I mean, imminent demise. To be fair though, there are exceptions; my boy Steve (2nd lvl), and a DMNPC around, uh, 2nd lvl as well, engaged and defeated a f'ing troll (CR 5 IIRC). We couldn't believe it. He insisted that we stage encounters geographically, not stage them by CR. ie)"The Troll Moors" are loaded w/, what do you know, trolls, not goblins/orcs that would be appropriate challenges per 'x'. It's more realistic, but damn, it can get horrifyingly real fast. Of course, there's something to be said for clever strategy too; alchemist fire and terrain negotiation go a long way to putting down a troll I guess.
#18 warcolonel Apr 09, 2009 12:34:28	The pit idea has potential. Doesn't need to be as deep, and if properly designed can work. The key is pushing it further then just a pit. A 10'x10'x10' pit can work. Try filling it with oil; then again, I think that it is around 7000 gallons of space. Spikes can work, but require a higher DC to make. You just have to think outside of the box. I doubt traps will work in general, though. These things will just be able to break anything you come up with through brute force. Instead, distraction and evasion while another party member gets the goods may be the only way.