Need Faster Combat? Bring Back Morale! - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Need Faster Combat? Bring Back Morale!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
octavius
Jun 16, 2009 15:24:55 As with many people in 4th, I have had the problem of lengthy combats. It's not the opening moves or the climatic middle, it's the end game. In most cases, combat is drawn out longer than it needs to be during that slough at the end where everyone's out of powers and it's at-will's back and forth, with the occasional recharge.

If all the players are not bloodied, and the solo has 1/4 of his hit points left, it's not difficult to figure out who's going to win. In the case of 4 players vs 6 monsters, where everyone is bloodied but only 3 monsters are left standing, it's not certain but a good guess would be for player victory. At the same time, when 2 PCs have fallen and the other 2 won't surrender, it drags out needlessly for the players sitting on the sidelines.

While I think they addressed the solo problem by lowering their hit points and increasing their damage after being bloodied in Monster Manual 2, the issue of "warbands" remains.

The solution I offer is morale. Since the very beginning of D&D there has been a misconception amongst many players that HP represents health. It does not (even Gary Gygax said that at 20th level only the last seven hit points or so is actual damage). HP represents your ability to take it in stride, to be hit and ignore it. Realistically, everyone is a minion, but those with training or heroic destinies manage to play through the pain.

So, with the understanding that HP is not physical health (as aptly represented by many of the leaders' powers to reinvigorate with words alone) one can say that morale may play a role in combat.

For monsters, morale is easy. When the warband of standard monsters is at 50% of its starting strength, the standard survivors lose 25% of their total HP, to a minimum of 1 HP remaining. When the warband is down to 25% of the starting total number of monsters, the all survivors (solos and elites) lose an additional 25% of their total health. So by the end surviving standards have lost 50%, while others have lost 25%

obviously we do not count minions when calculating these numbers

An example would be as follows.
a party is facing 8 orcs who each have 100 HP.

by the start of the sixth initiative pass, 3 orcs have been reduced to 0 while the remaining 5 have 12, 35, 80, 100 and 100. The fighter kills the one with 12 HP. Immediately the remaining 4 have 10, 55, 75, and 75.

by the eighth pass, the one with 10 has been killed and the one with 55 has been killed as well. the remaining two now have 50 hp each, even though no one ever attacked them.

this is particularly good when the party is either lacking a controller or has one who picked mostly non-controller type powers (i've seen it with the druid).

as for the players, whenever a PC is reduced to zero, all other PCs grant combat advantage until that PC is restored to consciousness or the encounter ends. not that they need more of a personal stake in reviving a PC, but it helps create a turning of the tide for monsters once one player falls without robbing players of their ability to fight back.

it also gives more justification for monsters thinking and acting tactically: the defender has made his defense bonus insanely high through max-min stats, so its worth it to go after the controller first, even if that will incur the defender's attacks.

how does that sound?
#2
psk20
Jun 16, 2009 15:39:51 I like the idea, but I'm not sure you need to houserule it.

If you're DMing, and the monsters are clearly losing (e.g. there are only 1 or 2 of the 5 initial foes remaining), you could do either of the following:

1) Tell the players they finish of the last of the enemies swiftly. Depending on the players, they'll probably be fine with this (even happy to be able to skip the boring/easy bits).

2) Have the remaining foes surrender.

Both are pretty realistic, and pretty good solutions to the problem, I think.

Also, the intimidate skill allows a player to go far beyond the scenarios above. As a standard action, the character can make an intimidate vs. will+10 attack against a bloodied enemy, forcing them to surrender. That's quite powerful when you consider that none of the enemy's allies need to have been felled already. You'd want to take a feat to boost your intimidate to make it really viable though.
#3
zombiegleemax
Jun 16, 2009 21:01:50 For that matter, it's kinda in there already. Any enemy with half a brain that is not some kind of berserker (i.e. INT score of 5+ or most animals) should be trying to run when it's bloodied.

I run when I'm bloodied in real life, and I can be an overconfident idiot at times.
#4
bone_naga
Jun 16, 2009 21:09:57 Personally, if the players are fighting mindless animals (animals that have an interest in survival, not undead and such), they retreat as soon as they are bloodied (if the party lets them, for some reason they will go to great lengths to kill off retreating enemies rather than focus on the remaining ones).

Also, for any intelligent creature, if more than half of his buddies have been killed/captured/retreated, he generally tries to get the hell out of there unless theres a damn good reason for sticking around, or he's a fanatic.

Intimidate somewhat simulates the morale situation, although it requires the PCs to actively use it. I suppose you could always create a "Passive Intimidate" similar to Passive Perception to determine if enemies will retreat/surrender without the PCs encouraging them to. Actually, that doesn't sound like a half bad idea now that I think about it...
#5
Alex_
Jun 16, 2009 21:35:51
Personally, if the players are fighting mindless animals (animals that have an interest in survival, not undead and such), they retreat as soon as they are bloodied (if the party lets them, for some reason they will go to great lengths to kill off retreating enemies rather than focus on the remaining ones).

I fiend the relentlessness with which players will pursue fleeing enemies comes from the perception that unless the enemy drops that you're missing out on gear they could have and exp for defeating them, and/or the possibility that they will return with reinforcements, warn the BBEG, or return as a more powerful adversary. They try to nip all that in the bud.
#6
some_random_kid
Jun 16, 2009 22:42:55 I'm too lazy to credit individual posters, but this thread is win so far.

I'm going to summarize, because I'm odd like that.

So what we want is:
Faster conclusion of basically decided combats.
PCs still get monster gear, XP, etc.

And as solutions we have:
Morale, reflected in direct damage.
Just RP it as ending.
Passive intimidate to end it.
Monsters just retreating.

I like the idea of morale as a factor in combat a lot, but I'm not sure you could realistically justify a low morale penalty to hp. If I'm fighting for my life, I'm not going to give up because things look bad. There's a pretty good chance I'll run or, if I think I'd be spared, surrender, but I'm not going to stop fighting the pain and just flop over; if anything, I'd be more desperate, and would fight it more.

Instead of penalizing low morale, then, I propose we reward high morale. What if the rush of impending victory and the determination to dig deep for one last killing blow gave PCs a bonus? Or, more specifically, what if they could bust out one more encounter power or acquire one more immediately-usable-only action point?

To me, this is far more realistic; anyone who's ever done anything unpleasant for a long period of time knows the surge of power and motivation you get when you're about to reach the finish. If my power took the form, of magic, I don't know how I couldn't use it when I saw the end was in sight.

So how about this: when all enemies are bloodied or when there are twice as many dead enemies as live ones, all non-bloodied PCs get to recover one encounter power.
#7
aivaruin
Jun 17, 2009 0:52:30 I have subtle take on Morale. In some cases enemies run, in cases where this is not an option enemie sstarts to go balistic ignoring defenders and melee strikers and going for wekest defence people. The result is sudden boost in OA and defender damage effects.

In the end we have crazed enemies that strat doing stupid things and get down faster cause of it.
#8
samyueru
Jun 17, 2009 10:21:55 Morale is a nice idea, I just think it needs to be written out in a more concise way, although I sort of understand what you're saying. Maybe not have them lose 25% of their total HP, but perhaps 25% of their remaining HP. That seems a little bit more fair. But I'll run this through a couple of playtests and see what happens.
#9
fponkdamn
Jun 20, 2009 23:03:26 You could try this:

Create a "passive intimidate" for each PC, equal to their intimidate modifier +10, like any passive ability. Whenever a monster is at HP equal to or less than the passive intimidate of a PC, that monster will not attack that PC, and will, in fact, use its move action on its turn to move away from that PC, if the PC is near. It will fight what it perceives to be "lesser" foes (those with lower passive intimidates), until such time as it has HP less than any PC's passive intimidate, at which point it surrenders.

So, on a party with passive intimidates of 22, 15, 14, and 12, a monster taking enough damage to be at 22 HP or lower won't fight the fighter with 22 intimidate, and won't fight at all once at 12 or less (fleeing or surrendering).

Obviously, minions are not subject to this, though minions may simply surrender or flee if there are no non-minions remaining (assuming they're intelligent).

That way, no additional rolls or math is required, but morale remains.

- Johnny
#10
alphasquirell
Jun 21, 2009 0:51:13
Morale is a nice idea, I just think it needs to be written out in a more concise way, although I sort of understand what you're saying.

This.

I try to go with the "play it as it goes" kinda way. Fight with 5 baddies, 3 are dead, then the 2 left do what they would do in their present situation. Meaning, if 2 are left near a doorway, they split. But if the 2 left are in a corner, I flip a coin (or roll any dice for odds/evens), and decide if they "fight to the death" or "cower". Goblins/kobolds cower before obviously more powerful PCs. Berserkers, overconfident brutes, anyone with a trick still left up their sleeve, and unintelligent denizens (be they machines or zombies or just stupid thieves), fight to the death. Animals might still try to escape. (I've done it with kobolds before, too, but they tend to run in fear straight into the waiting PCs, so they don't actually stand a chance of escaping...)

So maybe a mechanic that, instead of reflecting changes in HP due to morale, is simply a morale stat? Like, there's a standard morale per individual. Standards (from city guard to a goblin) are 2 Morale per unit. (4 goblins = 8 group morale)

At 1/2 morale, they now try to flee, avoiding conflict if they can. (but they'll try to fight/push/shove PCs to get past them to an exit if they must) At 1/4 morale, they flee THROUGH PCs if they have to.

Then you add in extra mechanics per different type of unit.

-Any type of brave/unrelenting unit (such as the Berserker) ignores group Morale, but still participates (so the Berserker don't care that Morale is 4/8, but if he dies and drops it to 2/8, the remaining gnoll will STILL try harder to flee).

-Leaders have a higher individual Morale, both for adding to the Group total and for their death. Add 1 for lieutenant/miniboss baddies, 2 for boss/BBEG. (so if 4 Goblins have 2 each, the Goblin Captain has 3, and the Hobgoblin Chief has 4, for a group total of 15; I would note, here, that killing the 4 goblins would be enough to send Captain/Chief fleeing, so we might want to work something out where tougher leaders are Brave, so they party doesn't send the BBEG Necromancer scurrying by cleaving through a few zombies)

-Minions count for 1.

-Specifics for monster types and situational buffs. Such as, lurkers might flee completely at 1/2 Morale, especially if it's a boogey man trying to steal a meal in the middle of someone else's fight. (just a passing thought there) Elites might add +1 to morale, and ignore the 1/2 morale step, regardless of type. (so their buddies are more resilient while he's in play, and he won't try to flee quite as fast as they do, as I think should be the case with Elites) Other things, like if an opposing leader uses a warcry, it might provide a temporary buff that prevents fleeing. Unintelligence (basic zombie/skeleton undead, for example) provides "not fleeing". Cowardice (say, kobolds, or animals only fighting because provoked) might flee "100%" at 1/4 Morale.

~So, morale = 2n, where n is monster #.
~Minions = -1n, where n is minion #.
~Miniboss = +1.
~BBEG = +2
~ +Morale (having a captain, brave monsters, being a badass, etc) = No effect at 1/2 Morale.
~ -Morale (cowardice) = Full effect at 1/2 Morale.
~No intelligence = Not effected by Morale. (note: originally intended for a lack of smarts, like basic undead or constructs, I guess really stupid bandits might fight to the death, too)
~1/2 Morale = Evade/flee
~1/4 Morale = RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

Thoughts? This is more or less me brainstorming straight into a post, so I probably repeated myself a few times. Here are other odds and ends I haven't thought out as much.

1/2 Morale effect might be more "fight defensively" and "regroup" and less "rational attempts at escape". (then, 1/4 could just be "flee", with smarter enemies trying harder to stay alive and escape, and dumber enemies bum-rushing the exit)

Rapport. I figured a gang of thieves might fight harder to protect their buddies. With 4, when 2 go down, the other 2 might still be fighting strong to avenge their buddies. (the idea being that fighting with friends obviously has more group Morale than a ragtag group of whocares)

Bloodied effects. A goblin at half health is more likely to want to flee, right? So maybe bloodied gives -1 to group morale? Or only a "theoretical -1" for the bloodied monster. (the thought being that just because goblin A is bloodied and wants to flee doesn't mean goblin B, who's beating the crap out of someone, wants to flee also)

Tide of Battle effects. Maybe making a PC bloodied adds 1 to Morale, dropping him adds 2. (we're doing good! keep fighting!) Of course, healing might negate some of that. (holy crap! we knocked him down, and he's back up fighting again!) (it also means 2 bandits don't flee when they lose their second buddy, after dropping 2 of the PCs)

Threat assessment? A Wizard who drops 4 minions at once is going to look more nasty than the same Wizard who drops those minions one at a time, regardless of the fact they are minions. Same goes for a fighter who crits the orc in front of him. So maybe crits on PCs add +1, crits on monsters give -1, and loss of more than 2 monsters per round drops morale 1 more monster. (3rd kill is a -1, 4th kill is a -2 overall, etc)

This is all off-the-top stuff, so I haven't tested any of it. I don't have a concrete group right now, but I can still run "simulations" with various pre-printed encounters and home-built stuff to see if it would work as a basic mechanic. (whether it'd be fluid enough for practical use or not, no idea; though I figure this might be a "training tool" to give DMs an idea of how Morale ought to work, so that after using it a while they start to understand trends better, and could know what to do when without the actual numbers; so I'd say it's easiest to RP Morale, but giving it numbers might help us teach those to RP Morale, you know?)
#11
octavius
Jun 23, 2009 13:34:50 I do appreciate everyone's replies, particularly the last two, and i've done some writing and rewriting of this response. This is what I came to:

Intimidate may be used against a creature that is bloodied (as normal) or against a "warband" that is at 25% of its starting unit strength or less, with four minions counting as 1 standard creature, an elite counting as 2, and a solo counting as 4.

Passive Intimidate: intimidate skill + 10
if your passive intimidate is greater than or equal to a creature's current HP, that creature grants combat advantage to your attacks.

in addition, each monster has a morale attribute. With a successful knowledge roll a character may know what the standard monster attribute is. a successful insight roll might be required if something weird is going on, like the kobold high priest has an artifact in his possession that makes the kobold skirmishers go from cowardly to relentless as long as he holds it before them.

Relentless: creature immune to intimidate (examples: mindless undead, unintelligent constructs, bound elemental guardians, etc.)

Proud: creature may not surrender or retreat when intimidated, a successful intimidate check may instead result in the target granting combat advantage until the end of the encounter (examples: samurai warriors, githyanki, dragonborn, etc.)

Shrewd: +2 to creature's will defense if the "intimidating" character is bloodied. A failed intimidate check results in the "intimidating" character granting combat advantage until the end of his next turn (examples: elves, dwarves)

Average: A successful intimidate causes the creature to retreat if possible, if unable to escape it will surrender (examples: orcs, humans)

Cowardly: -2 to creature's will defense against intimidate checks, a group may be intimidated at 50% starting unit strength or less (examples: goblins, kobolds, predatory beasts)

of course, dialogue plays a role in this. if your characters actively say they will take no prisoners, creatures are unlikely to surrender to them. in that situation, treat them as if they are proud, that they will only grant combat advantage as a result of a successful check

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 octavius Jun 16, 2009 15:24:55	As with many people in 4th, I have had the problem of lengthy combats. It's not the opening moves or the climatic middle, it's the end game. In most cases, combat is drawn out longer than it needs to be during that slough at the end where everyone's out of powers and it's at-will's back and forth, with the occasional recharge. If all the players are not bloodied, and the solo has 1/4 of his hit points left, it's not difficult to figure out who's going to win. In the case of 4 players vs 6 monsters, where everyone is bloodied but only 3 monsters are left standing, it's not certain but a good guess would be for player victory. At the same time, when 2 PCs have fallen and the other 2 won't surrender, it drags out needlessly for the players sitting on the sidelines. While I think they addressed the solo problem by lowering their hit points and increasing their damage after being bloodied in Monster Manual 2, the issue of "warbands" remains. The solution I offer is morale. Since the very beginning of D&D there has been a misconception amongst many players that HP represents health. It does not (even Gary Gygax said that at 20th level only the last seven hit points or so is actual damage). HP represents your ability to take it in stride, to be hit and ignore it. Realistically, everyone is a minion, but those with training or heroic destinies manage to play through the pain. So, with the understanding that HP is not physical health (as aptly represented by many of the leaders' powers to reinvigorate with words alone) one can say that morale may play a role in combat. For monsters, morale is easy. When the warband of standard monsters is at 50% of its starting strength, the standard survivors lose 25% of their total HP, to a minimum of 1 HP remaining. When the warband is down to 25% of the starting total number of monsters, the all survivors (solos and elites) lose an additional 25% of their total health. So by the end surviving standards have lost 50%, while others have lost 25% obviously we do not count minions when calculating these numbers An example would be as follows. a party is facing 8 orcs who each have 100 HP. by the start of the sixth initiative pass, 3 orcs have been reduced to 0 while the remaining 5 have 12, 35, 80, 100 and 100. The fighter kills the one with 12 HP. Immediately the remaining 4 have 10, 55, 75, and 75. by the eighth pass, the one with 10 has been killed and the one with 55 has been killed as well. the remaining two now have 50 hp each, even though no one ever attacked them. this is particularly good when the party is either lacking a controller or has one who picked mostly non-controller type powers (i've seen it with the druid). as for the players, whenever a PC is reduced to zero, all other PCs grant combat advantage until that PC is restored to consciousness or the encounter ends. not that they need more of a personal stake in reviving a PC, but it helps create a turning of the tide for monsters once one player falls without robbing players of their ability to fight back. it also gives more justification for monsters thinking and acting tactically: the defender has made his defense bonus insanely high through max-min stats, so its worth it to go after the controller first, even if that will incur the defender's attacks. how does that sound?
#2 psk20 Jun 16, 2009 15:39:51	I like the idea, but I'm not sure you need to houserule it. If you're DMing, and the monsters are clearly losing (e.g. there are only 1 or 2 of the 5 initial foes remaining), you could do either of the following: 1) Tell the players they finish of the last of the enemies swiftly. Depending on the players, they'll probably be fine with this (even happy to be able to skip the boring/easy bits). 2) Have the remaining foes surrender. Both are pretty realistic, and pretty good solutions to the problem, I think. Also, the intimidate skill allows a player to go far beyond the scenarios above. As a standard action, the character can make an intimidate vs. will+10 attack against a bloodied enemy, forcing them to surrender. That's quite powerful when you consider that none of the enemy's allies need to have been felled already. You'd want to take a feat to boost your intimidate to make it really viable though.
#3 zombiegleemax Jun 16, 2009 21:01:50	For that matter, it's kinda in there already. Any enemy with half a brain that is not some kind of berserker (i.e. INT score of 5+ or most animals) should be trying to run when it's bloodied. I run when I'm bloodied in real life, and I can be an overconfident idiot at times.
#4 bone_naga Jun 16, 2009 21:09:57	Personally, if the players are fighting mindless animals (animals that have an interest in survival, not undead and such), they retreat as soon as they are bloodied (if the party lets them, for some reason they will go to great lengths to kill off retreating enemies rather than focus on the remaining ones). Also, for any intelligent creature, if more than half of his buddies have been killed/captured/retreated, he generally tries to get the hell out of there unless theres a damn good reason for sticking around, or he's a fanatic. Intimidate somewhat simulates the morale situation, although it requires the PCs to actively use it. I suppose you could always create a "Passive Intimidate" similar to Passive Perception to determine if enemies will retreat/surrender without the PCs encouraging them to. Actually, that doesn't sound like a half bad idea now that I think about it...
#5 Alex_ Jun 16, 2009 21:35:51	Personally, if the players are fighting mindless animals (animals that have an interest in survival, not undead and such), they retreat as soon as they are bloodied (if the party lets them, for some reason they will go to great lengths to kill off retreating enemies rather than focus on the remaining ones). I fiend the relentlessness with which players will pursue fleeing enemies comes from the perception that unless the enemy drops that you're missing out on gear they could have and exp for defeating them, and/or the possibility that they will return with reinforcements, warn the BBEG, or return as a more powerful adversary. They try to nip all that in the bud.
#6 some_random_kid Jun 16, 2009 22:42:55	I'm too lazy to credit individual posters, but this thread is win so far. I'm going to summarize, because I'm odd like that. So what we want is: Faster conclusion of basically decided combats. PCs still get monster gear, XP, etc. And as solutions we have: Morale, reflected in direct damage. Just RP it as ending. Passive intimidate to end it. Monsters just retreating. I like the idea of morale as a factor in combat a lot, but I'm not sure you could realistically justify a low morale penalty to hp. If I'm fighting for my life, I'm not going to give up because things look bad. There's a pretty good chance I'll run or, if I think I'd be spared, surrender, but I'm not going to stop fighting the pain and just flop over; if anything, I'd be more desperate, and would fight it more. Instead of penalizing low morale, then, I propose we reward high morale. What if the rush of impending victory and the determination to dig deep for one last killing blow gave PCs a bonus? Or, more specifically, what if they could bust out one more encounter power or acquire one more immediately-usable-only action point? To me, this is far more realistic; anyone who's ever done anything unpleasant for a long period of time knows the surge of power and motivation you get when you're about to reach the finish. If my power took the form, of magic, I don't know how I couldn't use it when I saw the end was in sight. So how about this: when all enemies are bloodied or when there are twice as many dead enemies as live ones, all non-bloodied PCs get to recover one encounter power.
#7 aivaruin Jun 17, 2009 0:52:30	I have subtle take on Morale. In some cases enemies run, in cases where this is not an option enemie sstarts to go balistic ignoring defenders and melee strikers and going for wekest defence people. The result is sudden boost in OA and defender damage effects. In the end we have crazed enemies that strat doing stupid things and get down faster cause of it.
#8 samyueru Jun 17, 2009 10:21:55	Morale is a nice idea, I just think it needs to be written out in a more concise way, although I sort of understand what you're saying. Maybe not have them lose 25% of their total HP, but perhaps 25% of their remaining HP. That seems a little bit more fair. But I'll run this through a couple of playtests and see what happens.
#9 fponkdamn Jun 20, 2009 23:03:26	You could try this: Create a "passive intimidate" for each PC, equal to their intimidate modifier +10, like any passive ability. Whenever a monster is at HP equal to or less than the passive intimidate of a PC, that monster will not attack that PC, and will, in fact, use its move action on its turn to move away from that PC, if the PC is near. It will fight what it perceives to be "lesser" foes (those with lower passive intimidates), until such time as it has HP less than any PC's passive intimidate, at which point it surrenders. So, on a party with passive intimidates of 22, 15, 14, and 12, a monster taking enough damage to be at 22 HP or lower won't fight the fighter with 22 intimidate, and won't fight at all once at 12 or less (fleeing or surrendering). Obviously, minions are not subject to this, though minions may simply surrender or flee if there are no non-minions remaining (assuming they're intelligent). That way, no additional rolls or math is required, but morale remains. - Johnny
#10 alphasquirell Jun 21, 2009 0:51:13	Morale is a nice idea, I just think it needs to be written out in a more concise way, although I sort of understand what you're saying. This. I try to go with the "play it as it goes" kinda way. Fight with 5 baddies, 3 are dead, then the 2 left do what they would do in their present situation. Meaning, if 2 are left near a doorway, they split. But if the 2 left are in a corner, I flip a coin (or roll any dice for odds/evens), and decide if they "fight to the death" or "cower". Goblins/kobolds cower before obviously more powerful PCs. Berserkers, overconfident brutes, anyone with a trick still left up their sleeve, and unintelligent denizens (be they machines or zombies or just stupid thieves), fight to the death. Animals might still try to escape. (I've done it with kobolds before, too, but they tend to run in fear straight into the waiting PCs, so they don't actually stand a chance of escaping...) So maybe a mechanic that, instead of reflecting changes in HP due to morale, is simply a morale stat? Like, there's a standard morale per individual. Standards (from city guard to a goblin) are 2 Morale per unit. (4 goblins = 8 group morale) At 1/2 morale, they now try to flee, avoiding conflict if they can. (but they'll try to fight/push/shove PCs to get past them to an exit if they must) At 1/4 morale, they flee THROUGH PCs if they have to. Then you add in extra mechanics per different type of unit. -Any type of brave/unrelenting unit (such as the Berserker) ignores group Morale, but still participates (so the Berserker don't care that Morale is 4/8, but if he dies and drops it to 2/8, the remaining gnoll will STILL try harder to flee). -Leaders have a higher individual Morale, both for adding to the Group total and for their death. Add 1 for lieutenant/miniboss baddies, 2 for boss/BBEG. (so if 4 Goblins have 2 each, the Goblin Captain has 3, and the Hobgoblin Chief has 4, for a group total of 15; I would note, here, that killing the 4 goblins would be enough to send Captain/Chief fleeing, so we might want to work something out where tougher leaders are Brave, so they party doesn't send the BBEG Necromancer scurrying by cleaving through a few zombies) -Minions count for 1. -Specifics for monster types and situational buffs. Such as, lurkers might flee completely at 1/2 Morale, especially if it's a boogey man trying to steal a meal in the middle of someone else's fight. (just a passing thought there) Elites might add +1 to morale, and ignore the 1/2 morale step, regardless of type. (so their buddies are more resilient while he's in play, and he won't try to flee quite as fast as they do, as I think should be the case with Elites) Other things, like if an opposing leader uses a warcry, it might provide a temporary buff that prevents fleeing. Unintelligence (basic zombie/skeleton undead, for example) provides "not fleeing". Cowardice (say, kobolds, or animals only fighting because provoked) might flee "100%" at 1/4 Morale. ~So, morale = 2n, where n is monster #. ~Minions = -1n, where n is minion #. ~Miniboss = +1. ~BBEG = +2 ~ +Morale (having a captain, brave monsters, being a badass, etc) = No effect at 1/2 Morale. ~ -Morale (cowardice) = Full effect at 1/2 Morale. ~No intelligence = Not effected by Morale. (note: originally intended for a lack of smarts, like basic undead or constructs, I guess really stupid bandits might fight to the death, too) ~1/2 Morale = Evade/flee ~1/4 Morale = RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! Thoughts? This is more or less me brainstorming straight into a post, so I probably repeated myself a few times. Here are other odds and ends I haven't thought out as much. 1/2 Morale effect might be more "fight defensively" and "regroup" and less "rational attempts at escape". (then, 1/4 could just be "flee", with smarter enemies trying harder to stay alive and escape, and dumber enemies bum-rushing the exit) Rapport. I figured a gang of thieves might fight harder to protect their buddies. With 4, when 2 go down, the other 2 might still be fighting strong to avenge their buddies. (the idea being that fighting with friends obviously has more group Morale than a ragtag group of whocares) Bloodied effects. A goblin at half health is more likely to want to flee, right? So maybe bloodied gives -1 to group morale? Or only a "theoretical -1" for the bloodied monster. (the thought being that just because goblin A is bloodied and wants to flee doesn't mean goblin B, who's beating the crap out of someone, wants to flee also) Tide of Battle effects. Maybe making a PC bloodied adds 1 to Morale, dropping him adds 2. (we're doing good! keep fighting!) Of course, healing might negate some of that. (holy crap! we knocked him down, and he's back up fighting again!) (it also means 2 bandits don't flee when they lose their second buddy, after dropping 2 of the PCs) Threat assessment? A Wizard who drops 4 minions at once is going to look more nasty than the same Wizard who drops those minions one at a time, regardless of the fact they are minions. Same goes for a fighter who crits the orc in front of him. So maybe crits on PCs add +1, crits on monsters give -1, and loss of more than 2 monsters per round drops morale 1 more monster. (3rd kill is a -1, 4th kill is a -2 overall, etc) This is all off-the-top stuff, so I haven't tested any of it. I don't have a concrete group right now, but I can still run "simulations" with various pre-printed encounters and home-built stuff to see if it would work as a basic mechanic. (whether it'd be fluid enough for practical use or not, no idea; though I figure this might be a "training tool" to give DMs an idea of how Morale ought to work, so that after using it a while they start to understand trends better, and could know what to do when without the actual numbers; so I'd say it's easiest to RP Morale, but giving it numbers might help us teach those to RP Morale, you know?)
#11 octavius Jun 23, 2009 13:34:50	I do appreciate everyone's replies, particularly the last two, and i've done some writing and rewriting of this response. This is what I came to: Intimidate may be used against a creature that is bloodied (as normal) or against a "warband" that is at 25% of its starting unit strength or less, with four minions counting as 1 standard creature, an elite counting as 2, and a solo counting as 4. Passive Intimidate: intimidate skill + 10 if your passive intimidate is greater than or equal to a creature's current HP, that creature grants combat advantage to your attacks. in addition, each monster has a morale attribute. With a successful knowledge roll a character may know what the standard monster attribute is. a successful insight roll might be required if something weird is going on, like the kobold high priest has an artifact in his possession that makes the kobold skirmishers go from cowardly to relentless as long as he holds it before them. Relentless: creature immune to intimidate (examples: mindless undead, unintelligent constructs, bound elemental guardians, etc.) Proud: creature may not surrender or retreat when intimidated, a successful intimidate check may instead result in the target granting combat advantage until the end of the encounter (examples: samurai warriors, githyanki, dragonborn, etc.) Shrewd: +2 to creature's will defense if the "intimidating" character is bloodied. A failed intimidate check results in the "intimidating" character granting combat advantage until the end of his next turn (examples: elves, dwarves) Average: A successful intimidate causes the creature to retreat if possible, if unable to escape it will surrender (examples: orcs, humans) Cowardly: -2 to creature's will defense against intimidate checks, a group may be intimidated at 50% starting unit strength or less (examples: goblins, kobolds, predatory beasts) of course, dialogue plays a role in this. if your characters actively say they will take no prisoners, creatures are unlikely to surrender to them. in that situation, treat them as if they are proud, that they will only grant combat advantage as a result of a successful check