need help with a 3.5 character progression. ::first timer:: - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

need help with a 3.5 character progression. ::first timer::

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
spitelout
Jun 12, 2013 22:24:24 I'm in my first real campaign ever and i'm super excited. I just want to make sure I don't build my first character dumb. We're already midway through 2nd level so there's nothing I can change about these stats now:

Stats:

Human
Ranger1/Barb1

STR: 14
DEX: 16
CON: 14
INT: 13
WIS: 12
CHA: 11

Feats: Toughness/Dodge

From here i'm lost. I was planing ranger from here up. I know this isn't the blueprint of a optimized character, I just want to make sure he's fun to play when i'm mid level and up. I was thinking ranger2 lvl combat focus 2WF and with my 3ed lvl feat taking "Exotic Weapons Training: Urgrosh"? ANY input is GREATLY appreciated.
#2
Saelorn
Jun 13, 2013 0:00:22 Without getting into too much optimization, you should ask if you can house rule Toughness into something not ... quite as terrible. As I'm sure you're aware by looking at your own HP total, those 3 hit points are a drop in the bucket compared to the ~7 you get every level anyway. (Common house rules are that Toughness gives you +1 hit point every level.)

Ranger/Barbarian is kind of weird. Normally, I would recommend you take Weapon Finesse and focus more on Dexterity (to gain +hit and +AC), but raging kind of makes your AC terrible and makes your Strength higher than your Dex, so Weapon Finesse would be pretty situational.

In any case, there's no real benefit to taking proficiency in Urgrosh instead of just using a Longsword + Short Sword in combination. If you're sold on the double-weapon concept, though, I would recommend the Two-Bladed Sword for the increased damage. Even then, you'd probably be better off sticking with Weapon Focus (Short Sword) or picking up Two-Weapon Defense (although, again, kind of weird since raging makes your AC terrible).

How high of a level are you planning to reach?
#3
spitelout
Jun 13, 2013 0:12:12 i have no idea. This is all of our first time playing, but i'm loving it. I just see what I want in my head; a barbaric woodsman hunter with a thing for axes.

I see now this build was short-sighted of me and would take a lot to make a good character. I might just start back in the ranger archery path in 3 level (ranger lvl2).
#4
Saelorn
Jun 13, 2013 0:25:43 There's no reason you can't dual-wield Hand Axes (or a Battleaxe and a Hand Axe). Archery would probably be a bad move, though.

Not that you would particularly know this yet, but in order to gain your Strength modifier as a bonus to damage with a bow, you have to use a bow that is specially crafted to your particular Strength modifier. Normally, this is no big deal, and you the fighter with 18 Strength will carry around a bow crafted for that +4 modifier, and everything is fine. As a barbarian, though, your Strength changes when you rage. If you get the bow crafted to take advantage of your +2 modifier that you have from 14 Strength, then you don't get the major benefit from your raging; if you get the bow crafted to use your +4 modifier from 18 Strength while raging, then you suffer a -2 penalty to attack with it whenever you're not raging.

#5
DaBeerds
Jun 13, 2013 16:36:12 The good news is that in the 3.5e PHB2 (page 191) there are specific rules for "retraining" your character. The bad news is that class retraining is not an option (there are class substitution rules but I do not think this applies to your situation). You can retrain, feats (trade in toughness for something more useful), skills, languages, even class feature choices (i.e. if you choose to go archery at ranger2 and then wanted to switch to two-weapon later on you could do that). On the flip side, choosing to play a human means that even if you focus on one class over the other for the rest of the way, there is no XP penalty.

That being said, this is why I like to be there when my players create their characters and allow my players (especially the newer ones) to tweak their character. I usually limit the time frame to the first three sessions. I have found that three game sessions is enough time to allow players to get a feel for the game and their role in the game and make changes accordingly (even the best session zero sometimes fails to fully prepare a player for the campaign ahead).

Honestly, it cannot hurt to approach your DM and ask the question, "I do not think the class choices I have made are going to work for me, can I make a change?" Worst case is that s/he says no.
#6
Saelorn
Jun 13, 2013 17:55:11 Also keep in mind that, as long as everyone is equally new to the game, you should be just fine. An extra point of damage or two will not change your gameplay experience by much, one way or the other.

My first real character in 3E was a sorcerer who took Toughness and Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken. It was fun.
#7
Mad_Jack
Jun 13, 2013 18:29:42 Quite honestly, a ranger dual-wielding handaxes isn't a bad character to play. The one level of barbarian isn't really all that bad a choice if you're going to multiclass - it gives you some nice nova potential once a day. It also gets you +10ft. of movement, which is great for a ranger, as well as some extra hitpoints and only two less skill points vs a level of ranger.
(Since you're human, and thus your ranger levels won't be counted toward multiclassing penalties, you might also want to consider adding a level of Rogue to pick up the Sneak Attack class feature.)

You're better off using dual handaxes rather than an urgrosh, spend the feat on Weapon Focus instead. Handaxes only lose an average of 1 point of damage vs a battleaxe (d6 vs d8) and have the advantage of being able to be thrown. You can freely mix melee and ranged attacks when using a full-attack action. (Since handaxes are light weapons, if you choose to multiclass rogue you could potentially be adding your sneak attack damage to more than one attack per round...)
Use studded leather armor even though it has a skill penalty, until you can afford to pick up an enchanted mithril chain shirt. When you get to high enough level to start acquiring magic items, pick up at least one handaxe with some sort of +1d6 elemental damage enchantment and another with a distance enchantment on it to increase the throwing range. Keep putting points into your Spot and Listen skills as well as Tumble.

Which 3.5 books do you have access to?
Ask your DM if you can retrain the Toughness feat. Grab Weapon Focus: Handaxe and Two-Weapon Defense for your next two feats. Since you have the Dodge feat already, consider picking up Mobility as well. Quickdraw will also be useful if you're planning on throwing your axes on a regular basis.
(If you have access to the Complete Warrior book you may want to consider picking up either the Extend Rage (+5 rounds) or Extra Rage (2 more per day) feats to better take advantage of your barbarian level.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 spitelout Jun 12, 2013 22:24:24	I'm in my first real campaign ever and i'm super excited. I just want to make sure I don't build my first character dumb. We're already midway through 2nd level so there's nothing I can change about these stats now: Stats: Human Ranger1/Barb1 STR: 14 DEX: 16 CON: 14 INT: 13 WIS: 12 CHA: 11 Feats: Toughness/Dodge From here i'm lost. I was planing ranger from here up. I know this isn't the blueprint of a optimized character, I just want to make sure he's fun to play when i'm mid level and up. I was thinking ranger2 lvl combat focus 2WF and with my 3ed lvl feat taking "Exotic Weapons Training: Urgrosh"? ANY input is GREATLY appreciated.
#2 Saelorn Jun 13, 2013 0:00:22	Without getting into too much optimization, you should ask if you can house rule Toughness into something not ... quite as terrible. As I'm sure you're aware by looking at your own HP total, those 3 hit points are a drop in the bucket compared to the ~7 you get every level anyway. (Common house rules are that Toughness gives you +1 hit point every level.) Ranger/Barbarian is kind of weird. Normally, I would recommend you take Weapon Finesse and focus more on Dexterity (to gain +hit and +AC), but raging kind of makes your AC terrible and makes your Strength higher than your Dex, so Weapon Finesse would be pretty situational. In any case, there's no real benefit to taking proficiency in Urgrosh instead of just using a Longsword + Short Sword in combination. If you're sold on the double-weapon concept, though, I would recommend the Two-Bladed Sword for the increased damage. Even then, you'd probably be better off sticking with Weapon Focus (Short Sword) or picking up Two-Weapon Defense (although, again, kind of weird since raging makes your AC terrible). How high of a level are you planning to reach?
#3 spitelout Jun 13, 2013 0:12:12	i have no idea. This is all of our first time playing, but i'm loving it. I just see what I want in my head; a barbaric woodsman hunter with a thing for axes. I see now this build was short-sighted of me and would take a lot to make a good character. I might just start back in the ranger archery path in 3 level (ranger lvl2).
#4 Saelorn Jun 13, 2013 0:25:43	There's no reason you can't dual-wield Hand Axes (or a Battleaxe and a Hand Axe). Archery would probably be a bad move, though. Not that you would particularly know this yet, but in order to gain your Strength modifier as a bonus to damage with a bow, you have to use a bow that is specially crafted to your particular Strength modifier. Normally, this is no big deal, and you the fighter with 18 Strength will carry around a bow crafted for that +4 modifier, and everything is fine. As a barbarian, though, your Strength changes when you rage. If you get the bow crafted to take advantage of your +2 modifier that you have from 14 Strength, then you don't get the major benefit from your raging; if you get the bow crafted to use your +4 modifier from 18 Strength while raging, then you suffer a -2 penalty to attack with it whenever you're not raging.
#5 DaBeerds Jun 13, 2013 16:36:12	The good news is that in the 3.5e PHB2 (page 191) there are specific rules for "retraining" your character. The bad news is that class retraining is not an option (there are class substitution rules but I do not think this applies to your situation). You can retrain, feats (trade in toughness for something more useful), skills, languages, even class feature choices (i.e. if you choose to go archery at ranger2 and then wanted to switch to two-weapon later on you could do that). On the flip side, choosing to play a human means that even if you focus on one class over the other for the rest of the way, there is no XP penalty. That being said, this is why I like to be there when my players create their characters and allow my players (especially the newer ones) to tweak their character. I usually limit the time frame to the first three sessions. I have found that three game sessions is enough time to allow players to get a feel for the game and their role in the game and make changes accordingly (even the best session zero sometimes fails to fully prepare a player for the campaign ahead). Honestly, it cannot hurt to approach your DM and ask the question, "I do not think the class choices I have made are going to work for me, can I make a change?" Worst case is that s/he says no.
#6 Saelorn Jun 13, 2013 17:55:11	Also keep in mind that, as long as everyone is equally new to the game, you should be just fine. An extra point of damage or two will not change your gameplay experience by much, one way or the other. My first real character in 3E was a sorcerer who took Toughness and Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken. It was fun.
#7 Mad_Jack Jun 13, 2013 18:29:42	Quite honestly, a ranger dual-wielding handaxes isn't a bad character to play. The one level of barbarian isn't really all that bad a choice if you're going to multiclass - it gives you some nice nova potential once a day. It also gets you +10ft. of movement, which is great for a ranger, as well as some extra hitpoints and only two less skill points vs a level of ranger. (Since you're human, and thus your ranger levels won't be counted toward multiclassing penalties, you might also want to consider adding a level of Rogue to pick up the Sneak Attack class feature.) You're better off using dual handaxes rather than an urgrosh, spend the feat on Weapon Focus instead. Handaxes only lose an average of 1 point of damage vs a battleaxe (d6 vs d8) and have the advantage of being able to be thrown. You can freely mix melee and ranged attacks when using a full-attack action. (Since handaxes are light weapons, if you choose to multiclass rogue you could potentially be adding your sneak attack damage to more than one attack per round...) Use studded leather armor even though it has a skill penalty, until you can afford to pick up an enchanted mithril chain shirt. When you get to high enough level to start acquiring magic items, pick up at least one handaxe with some sort of +1d6 elemental damage enchantment and another with a distance enchantment on it to increase the throwing range. Keep putting points into your Spot and Listen skills as well as Tumble. Which 3.5 books do you have access to? Ask your DM if you can retrain the Toughness feat. Grab Weapon Focus: Handaxe and Two-Weapon Defense for your next two feats. Since you have the Dodge feat already, consider picking up Mobility as well. Quickdraw will also be useful if you're planning on throwing your axes on a regular basis. (If you have access to the Complete Warrior book you may want to consider picking up either the Extend Rage (+5 rounds) or Extra Rage (2 more per day) feats to better take advantage of your barbarian level.)