We've played games like Warhammer Quest, and enjoyed it, mainly for its simple structure when it comes to dungeons. Everything in the game is card based, which helps us have a fun combat experience, but it lacks the kind of depth found in a D&D Adventure. I've been listening to the PA/PVP D&D Podcasts and have enjoyed every minute of it. The kind of experience there having if the kind I know we would have, if we could find a way to play with out roping a friend in to playing the DM against there will.
The obvious answer is "Don't knock it till you tried it." but were pretty stubborn, and would probably keep that option as a last resort. Is there any kind of advice that could be given to a group in our situation?
Give it a try, just once. Get an easy to play adventure (maybe the one in the back of the DMG). Take an hour to read it, make some notes and then run the game.
I like DMing, but I can't imagine it not being work like you people are saying. I imagine you are trying to make it seem easy to not scare him, but I think the truth is important.
I read that somewhere, but I can't remember where. I have always created my own little worlds to tell stories in, and thinking back, I suppose my first fantasy world was sort of the Underdark. I imagined that just beneath the ground was a vast kingdom of connected caves populated by all kinds of people who lived underground. Yes, some elves and dwarves, and other magical creatures. Not all of them were nice, but it made for grand entertainment for a 5 year old. It was about '71 or '72. I'd draw pictures or just tell stories to any adult willing to listen. Fevered dreams from childhood illnesses also contributed. To this day my imagination is always churning with this world or that, playing with D&D and other RPG or videogame creatures or making up creatures on my own ("Morrowmen", for example, lost souls of those who had no faith in the future).
It's work, to be sure, but for some of us it's the same definition of "work" as a hot rod nut might apply to tearing apart his engine and rebuilding it; it's a labor of love.
Is there any kind of advice that could be given to a group in our situation?
The advise to use published adventures and pass the DM-hat around is a good one. Being a DM isn't that hard, especially if you have a pre-written adventure. And maybe one of you actually enjoys it.
You could join an existing group together with your friend. Leave a note at your FLGS (Friendly Local Gaming Store). Check if existing groups have left a note. Some websites focus on players looking for groups, or groups looking for players. If you happen to live near Utrecht, the Netherlands, I have an opening for two players in a new 4th edition group right now. I know that's a longshot though
Or you could join an online game. Forementioned websites might help you out.
The key is one guy starts, and says, Hell with it, I'll DM.
Start small. Read the books, make a campaign, play out a dungeon, and outdoor adventure a town adventure.
Mounted travel, sea travel, a small rival noble skirmish, then a war.
In a year, you'll be an expert.
Then come back here and share your wisdom.
It is some work, but it's the work of a writer. A person who hates writing, should not be a writer. A writer works, but he loves the work.
I'm a DM. I love it.
I like DMing, but I can't imagine it not being work like you people are saying. I imagine you are trying to make it seem easy to not scare him, but I think the truth is important.
I don't think anybody said it was the same or less work than being a player, but the amount of effort you put into it depends on you and what you (and your players) want from a game.
I've been in groups where the DM basically just makes up the entire adventure as he goes along, and uses monsters out of the book exclusively. He rolled random treasure right in front of us. The kind of DM who can do that is pretty good at improvising and thinking on his feet, and creative of course.
Personally I like to have each combat planned out with special rooms and (often) custom monsters, customized treasure, and a coherent storyline and idea of the background in case someone asks. My approach is a lot more work than the other DM's, certainly, but it is basically a matter of putting an hour or two into it a week and reviewing before the session. When first making an adventure there is more work to do, but after a little while you get the hang of the pacing of the group and find out about how much work you actually have to be doing before each session.
4th edition is pretty simple to DM for, in comparison to 3rd. If you don't want to go far in-depth with custom monsters and treasures, you don't have to. There is actual information about how to be a DM in the 4e Dungeon Master's Guide to coach newbies to the role.
Monsters are vastly simplified compared to earlier editions, with only two or three special things that they can do -- and you can do those things just with the stat block instead of referring to special spells in a separate book. As long as you read over the monsters once or twice, running them is not hard, and even if you get confused during a fight, just read it again, they are pretty short.
Making custom monsters is much faster than in the past.
I scan the pages, cut and paste the actual monsters I need for an encounter, sometimes editing them or adding more info, and assemble the blocks all on a single sheet (if possible) with a little area to keep track of their hit points. I then print it out and arrange them in the expected order encounters will happen in. Makes encounters much easier to manage.
To the OP: Yes, being the DM is a different kind of work. I like being a player also, so we switch off who DMs every other week. We run completely different campaigns with different characters. This has the added benefit of giving each of us essentially 2 weeks between our sessions.
If any of you have even the slightest interest in being a DM, just try it out. Say to the group: "I was thinking about one of us running a very short adventure to see how it is."
You don't have to make commitments to DM for life or write huge campaigns, just make up a few rooms filled with monsters and treasure or use a published adventure. Don't feel pressure like being the DM means you are DM for life.
Like all things, with practice you get better at it and the process gets faster. As you learn the rules better you will be able to make up adventures with balanced encounters and treasures in your head -- but you have to do it awhile the hard way before that point, with the books open in front of you.
Over time, you learn tricks to make it easier for you and fall into your groove as you learn the preferences of your group and your own DMing style. How much time it takes depends on lots of factors, but I find researching and learning about the way other people do things is always helpful.
Checking your LGS is probably the best bet. You could meet new people to play with, or maybe there is a group there. Right now what I do is that my group has a private session where one of the employees DMs. I don't know if every store could do that for you, but its worth looking around.
Give it a try, just once. Get an easy to play adventure (maybe the one in the back of the DMG). Take an hour to read it, make some notes and then run the game.
Be careful though, you might end up good at it.
1. Team initiative. Every character takes their turn, then the players (including you) controls a monster or set of monsters. (I know, it's playing chess against yourself.) Benefits: Different monster tactics. Becoming familiar with the stat blocks. Drawbacks: No surprises/ mystery. Can slow down play. Traps are ineffective.
2. As mentioned before, switch DM's every encounter. Passes the DM hat around for combat encounters, but you can't really get a story in the game. Roleplaying with NPC's becomes "roll bluff vs. insight."
3. Switch DM's every session. Best in episodic arcs. Not much chance of an epic campaign, but doesn't saddle a single person into DMing.
4. Forget the DM. Everyone gives a one-line description of what you want to do and where you want to do it, agree on which one sounds fun, break out the munchies and kick back.
Also there is this product called Mythic, with PDFs on the internet for 7 dollars. Its a GM emulator, allowing a group of players to play without a GM. I haven't used it, but it has received glowing praise on the fudge forum, including for someone I helped develop some rules for(horror game, so weapon lists, individual limbs being cut off, etc.)
Yes, this is possible. It's very bare-bones though. Information for how to do it is in the Dungeon Master Guide (DMG). A quick rundown of it however is basically-
A randomly generated dungeon.
Randomly generated monsters throughout the dungeon using a "random encounter deck" (fairly simple to make, don't worry.)
Someone prepares the deck, someone runs the monsters, everyone can decide what the monsters do, and you can have whoever's left of the person being attacked make the rolls for the monster(s), and that's about it.
Of course, this would require someone to buy the DMG and the Monster Manual (MM), but, this could help your group come to an idea if anyone wants to be a DM. If someone particularly enjoys making the dungeon(s) and/or running the monsters or what have you, then they could be the first one to try out being a DM. Or, if your group just simply likes doing the dungeon without a DM at all, you can keep doing that you guys get bored with it and decide it's time for someone to grab the reigns and start up a campaign.
I was thinking that you could make a charactor and DM at the same time. You could fight in encounters, but you wouldn't solve your own puzzles (and maybe set off your own traps if no one else is cautious). That way you would have all the fun of DMing and the fun of being a player too. You could also create interesting plots by betraying your party, or getting kidnapped. It could add to the story and also be fun for you too.
This can be done, but has to be handled with extreme care. Players will soon feel like they don't contribute, if your character (the DMPC) takes care of the encounters. Or they feel railroaded if the DMPC has to stick around to betray them or has to be rescued.
I generally err on the save side and never use a DMPC. I have two groups: one in which I'm the DM, and one in which I'm a player. Being a DM has made me a better player, and vice versa.