Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thorn-wychkin Feb 02, 2009 0:48:07	recently, someone else took over DMing in my group. he's a pretty cool guy and evrything but he's a pretty crappy DM. I say he's a crappy DM because for one, he panders way too much to needs of only certain people in the group so the games are very unbalanced. he does this by getting way too much into the rp aspects of the game and combat is virtually non-existent. role-playing would not be so unwelcome he wasn't so lazy and spent some time actually building skill challenges so that each member of the party can contribute with their skill selections. every instance of his so-called skill challenges are dominated almost entirely by boring diplomacy after diplomacy and being that some of us in the group aren't any good at role-playing when comes to fancy talk and being diplomatic, my entire gaming sessions are spent almost entirely watching one person role-playing. and it doesn't stop there; he lets the role-player get away with so much that it pretty ruins the rest of the game, especially the combat. he doesn't understand that rewarding players for clever ideas shouldn't amount to entire blocks f the game being destroyed; instead, it should be some breathing room in the form of a small but useful reward for making the next series actions easier. i know that the game is not all about killing but he lets almost ll the encounters get buried under stinking diplo checks. i don't mind role-playing but i'd also like to kill some stuff, a lot of stuff. insterad, what happens is that he lets the rp drag on for about 4 hours then drops in some crap encounter near the end that only lasts 4 rounds. if the monsters are all gonna go down to one swing of my sword then forget it, don't bother throwing them in because if it's not a challenge then it's not an encounter. apart from the monsters being weak as hell, the other thing that makes the encounters crappy is that he doesn't put any thought into making them challenging or interesting. the encounters are pretty much a case of "D&D's most one-sided fist fights." a while back i tried to explain to him that the environment should be as interesting as each creature with its own set of unique characteristics that player or monster should be able to use to affect the outcome of battle. i also encouraged him to also think of each band of monsters as a whole body with each partycontributing in a unique way to work as whole to challenge the players. he doesn't listen. instead, he throws encounters comprised almost entirely of minions and monsters filling only one role. e.g. the last encounter he threw at use had a single brute with not much in the way of hit points surrounded by 4 skirmishers and 1 artillery. the battle before that we faced down a band of 8 artillery creatures. 7 of which were minions and the 8th not much better. and the encounter before that featured a single artillery with 4 brutes. each brute was a minion and again, the boss was not much better. plain and simple, this guy is dead scared to hurt us as far as i can see. i don't know what to do. i keep encouraging him to read the DMG and the articles in Dungeon magazine but it seems my advice is falling on deaf ears. so please, can anyone give me any ideas on how i can reach my DM so he can stop wasting my sundays?
#2 excession_dup Feb 02, 2009 1:22:14	1. Have you checked with the other players? It may be that everyone else is enjoying themselves, which would suck for you. But more likely the others are also not having fun. A joint intervention is better than one complainer. 2. Proper write up your concerns so you can present them to your DM, which you have half way done here. Even if you don't actually show this to your DM it will help you get your own thoughts in order before you confront him. Try to use phrases like "I feel that...", and don't forget to point out things you liked as well as disliked. That's my suggestions, for what they're worth. Remember that communication isn't easy, but it is the solution.
#3 thorn-wychkin Feb 02, 2009 1:32:00	the group's pretty much split down the middle with this. half of us like it, half don't. The problem with my half is that i'm the only one who is vocal and is not scared of giving an honest opinion. also I've written my concerns to him to no avail. Yeah I know sentences and other crap start with capital letters but i spilled some kool-aid on my keyboard a while back ans since then, the keys in the caps lock region tend to stick when i punch them, so to avoid typing an entire sentence in upper-case leters and come off as if I'm shouting, i try to use those buttons as little as possible. Yeah i know i can use the shift key on the other end of the keyboard to do it i suck at typing and i usually end up hitting several other keys before i actually hit that one whenever i try to do so.
#4 rikiji Feb 02, 2009 15:48:24	Unfortunately, if he's not willing to learn the game there's not much you can do about that. Instead of trying to get him to build better encounters, focus on just getting him to provide balanced content of the kind he's comfortable with. Point out that one or two characters get a bulk of the play time and you'd like your characters to have stuff to do as well. If he's not able to cater to the entire group, then it might be time to cycle DMs again - it sounds like he's a great player, but the game will die if half the people playing aren't having fun with it.
#5 CCS Feb 02, 2009 20:19:38	well, from what you've written, it doesn't sound like your doing much to help yourself either. You mention the amount of RP. You mention how some of you aren't very good at it. But you also mention diplomacey checks getting made.... Sure, it helps smooth the RP if you're good at conversation as a player. But you aren't you're character. So get involved. Even if that means you end up telling the DM what your character says/does in a mostly 3rd person style. And don't give the excuse that your character lacks x skill, only has an ___ stat, etc. Besides, you say you want to kill things. What's the worst that can happen? Your attempts at social contributions could have a negative effect & lead to more fights.... Failing that? Take some control of the game. No, not as in ousting your DM. I presume you play in some type of "world". So simply set out to find areas where dangerous monsters etc live. Journy there. Attack them. And when the diplomat begins talking? If appropriate, attack who he's talking to.
#6 lady_ishtar Feb 03, 2009 9:28:08	just remember, just because your character has Charisma of 8 and no trained social skills that is no reason to keep your mouth closed. now if you try to take part in a social encounter and you are totally ignored, then you might want to consider a mutiny.
#7 thorn-wychkin Feb 12, 2009 13:27:02	well, from what you've written, it doesn't sound like your doing much to help yourself either. You mention the amount of RP. You mention how some of you aren't very good at it. But you also mention diplomacey checks getting made.... Sure, it helps smooth the RP if you're good at conversation as a player. But you aren't you're character. So get involved. Even if that means you end up telling the DM what your character says/does in a mostly 3rd person style. And don't give the excuse that your character lacks x skill, only has an ___ stat, etc. Besides, you say you want to kill things. What's the worst that can happen? Your attempts at social contributions could have a negative effect & lead to more fights.... Failing that? Take some control of the game. No, not as in ousting your DM. I presume you play in some type of "world". So simply set out to find areas where dangerous monsters etc live. Journy there. Attack them. And when the diplomat begins talking? If appropriate, attack who he's talking to. I do try to get involved. My character’s charisma is sick. It’s 21 but I’ve always been the type who preferred training in bluff and intimidate. I find that a convincing lie is easier than finding a valuable truth to use in diplomacy. Anyway whenever I try to do my thing, there is this one chick who alaways buts in and he allows her to do it. And when she does, he doesn’t spend like 5 minutes rping with her. No, it gets drawn out to nearly half and hour and whenever I try to get back in and let them know that there are others at the table I get told that I’m being pushy and impatient. If I try to attack an npc, I get the pushy player standing between me and the DM allows her to be there. If she tries to harm an npc well it’s all go from everyone else. now if you try to take part in a social encounter and you are totally ignored, then you might want to consider a mutiny. I’ve started doing this in my own roundabout way. Whenever combat begins, I kill everything before anyone else can really get a hit in. I figured that since they hog the non-combat, then they should have no problem when I hog all the monsters. They spend their time trying to avoid combat with their diplomacy rolls so I guess no one should complain. Guess I was wrong because right now I’m told that because I outshine everyone in combat and because my choices have made my guy too powerful in combat I should be nerfed.
#8 lady_ishtar Feb 12, 2009 14:39:26	... If I try to attack an npc, I get the pushy player standing between me and the DM allows her to be there. If she tries to harm an npc well it’s all go from everyone else. stab the players (the character i mean) that gets in your way. if your weapon is long enough you can stab both of them at the same time. ... Guess I was wrong because right now I’m told that because I outshine everyone in combat and because my choices have made my guy too powerful in combat I should be nerfed. if all they let you participate in is combat encounter turn every encounter into a combat encounter, and let the DM know that that will happen. just keep in mind that the lifespan of your character might be shortened by a lot. if your character dies just say that you will come back with a new one for the next adventure/campaign. if you are imprisoned just tell your DM to call you when you are freed, and go home. also, if you are imprisoned remember that a prison can change a man, a lot.
#9 thorn-wychkin Feb 12, 2009 14:45:00	stab the players (the character i mean) that gets in your way. if your weapon is long enough you can stab both of them at the same time. . my character isn't the type to stab his allies. he's a tiefling and the other party memebers already have some aversion to him so he tries his best to show he is trust worthy. and i'm a warlock, i'm more likely to boil their eyes out than stab them :D
#10 lady_ishtar Feb 12, 2009 15:18:39	my character isn't the type to stab his allies. he's a tiefling and the other party memebers already have some aversion to him so he tries his best to show he is trust worthy. and i'm a warlock, i'm more likely to boil their eyes out than stab them :D yeah, that puts a damper on my advice. i mean you can still try to make every encounter into a combat encounter, but i would not do it without another player or two doing the same thing. of course this may cause your group to fall apart, which may or may not be a good thing, depends. if you think you can find another group tell your DM that you are not enjoying his game for reason A, B, and C, and if thing dont change by next session you are leaving. whats the point of playing if you just sit on the side and read a book? or, if you dont mind DMing just tell the players in the game that you want to run a game and they are invited. just if you do that tell your players if your game is going to be RP heavy, combat heavy etc.
#11 chaosturtle Feb 13, 2009 11:14:00	...is your dm male by any chance? Furthermore, is he also single? Even furthermore, is this gal hot? Furtherfurthermore, does he wish to have a private adventure that takes place in her pants?
#12 thorn-wychkin Feb 13, 2009 12:02:43	yeah, that puts a damper on my advice. i mean you can still try to make every encounter into a combat encounter, but i would not do it without another player or two doing the same thing. of course this may cause your group to fall apart, which may or may not be a good thing, depends. if you think you can find another group tell your DM that you are not enjoying his game for reason A, B, and C, and if thing dont change by next session you are leaving. whats the point of playing if you just sit on the side and read a book? or, if you dont mind DMing just tell the players in the game that you want to run a game and they are invited. just if you do that tell your players if your game is going to be RP heavy, combat heavy etc. last night i told him i'd quit if things didn't change and he promised he'd try harder to rectify some of the things. i'm not interested in being these people's DM because i was for a little and i can't stand them. if it's not easy they think it's too hard and broken. they don't even try before they start whining. i once ran them through an encounter i took from a level 2 game that i had actually weakened. the party was level 3 but they started bawling and saying it's too hard ...is your dm male by any chance? Furthermore, is he also single? Even furthermore, is this gal hot? Furtherfurthermore, does he wish to have a private adventure that takes place in her pants? yeah he's single. no she's not hot in the slightest, her fiance plays with us, and as desperate as he is to get laid, i don't thinkhe's that desperate.
#13 lady_ishtar Feb 13, 2009 13:00:43	last night i told him i'd quit if things didn't change and he promised he'd try harder to rectify some of the things. i'm not interested in being these people's DM because i was for a little and i can't stand them. if it's not easy they think it's too hard and broken. they don't even try before they start whining. i once ran them through an encounter i took from a level 2 game that i had actually weakened. the party was level 3 but they started bawling and saying it's too hard... well, if you quit good luck in finding a new game, i know that can be a pain.
#14 1red13 Feb 13, 2009 22:30:58	You said you can't stand them when your a dm. You can't stand them as a player. Sounds like you already have your answer. You and them are just not a compatible gaming group. Probably best to cut your losses save yourself some frustration and find a different gaming group.