Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 volcanon2 Feb 23, 2009 0:26:12	So I joined a game, which I might not continue for a number of reasons, but for one, at least two of the PCs cheat. As in, their damage rolls are suspiciously high, or they are using weapons they aren't able to actually use. Since they are all friends and I'm the outsider, is it just better to seek greener pastures?
#2 salla Feb 23, 2009 0:30:00	I'd mention it privately to the DM, at least the part about using illegal weapons (assuming they haven't taken the appropriate feat). Unless you've actually seen them misreport a die roll, you don't have much to go on there.
#3 crossblade Feb 23, 2009 1:36:00	It's possible that the DM gave their characters overpowered weapons before you arrived if you joined in the middle of a campaign. Talking with the DM is definitely the way to go with this one.
#4 salla Feb 23, 2009 1:48:06	It's possible that the DM gave their characters overpowered weapons before you arrived if you joined in the middle of a campaign. Talking with the DM is definitely the way to go with this one. By 'weapons they can't actually use', I was assuming he meant by means of lack of proficiency or something like rogue Sneak Attacks with greatsword (or 'halfling using greatsword').
#5 lord_karsus Feb 23, 2009 10:56:38	As in, their damage rolls are suspiciously high... -Do something a DM I had did when he suspected a player was cheating: Record their rolls (and what they're for). If you see a pattern, bring it up to the DM, to let him/her deal with it. ...or they are using weapons they aren't able to actually use. -Are you mindful of Houserules? I know, in my own games, I don't care too much about item proficiencies, and unless you are a Druid or a Monk, you're proficient with basically all simple and martial weapons.
#6 ilikefrogs Feb 23, 2009 11:18:37	By 'weapons they can't actually use', I was assuming he meant by means of lack of proficiency or something like rogue Sneak Attacks with greatsword (or 'halfling using greatsword'). Halflings can use greatswords. A small greatsword does 1d10. To the OP, are you sure they are using weapons they aren't proficient in? In the example above, a halfling fighter really could do 11+ damage/hit. A halfling using a greatclub has the same damage die as a human using a longsword. If you are used to seeing d8's rolled for a longsword, that would be a more automatic guess, rather than "small greatclub."
#7 salla Feb 23, 2009 11:21:23	Halflings can use greatswords. A small greatsword does 1d10. Not in 4e. There are no small weapons. He could, through use of a feat, pick up a bastard sword to use two-handed. which does a d10. Since no edition was indicated in the OP, I assume 4th.
#8 ilikefrogs Feb 23, 2009 11:25:41	Not in 4e. There are no small weapons. He could, through use of a feat, pick up a bastard sword to use two-handed. which does a d10. Since no edition was indicated in the OP, I assume 4th. When no edition is mentioned, I assume 3.5. But you are right if the OP plays 4th.
#9 shinikama Feb 23, 2009 13:00:03	DELETED: Wrong thread. I'm an idiot today.
#10 mellored Feb 23, 2009 13:38:17	So I joined a game, which I might not continue for a number of reasons, but for one, at least two of the PCs cheat. As in, their damage rolls are suspiciously high, or they are using weapons they aren't able to actually use. Since they are all friends and I'm the outsider, is it just better to seek greener pastures? Are they stikers and you're a leader? Rogues, warlocks, rangers will do about 50% more damage then the rest of the classes.
#11 Chiba_Monkey Feb 23, 2009 14:14:40	Talk to the DM privately and have him ask everyone to roll in the open. If he continues to roll that well, it may be his dice. Unless you're getting Gamescience dice, odds are the way the dice are made, painted, and tumbled in a rock tumbler leaves them with imperfections that make them more prone to rollin certain numbers. I'm the DM, I always roll in the open, and I recently purchased a d20 that rolls more 20s than any I ever had. I also see quite a few 1s and 3s, but I almost never see a 6-15. It's always on either side of that range. That said, I've had problems with cheaters before. In a game I played, there was this guy who always played an elven female (weird enough), but always rolled, not on the table we played at, but on a notebook that he held close to his chest. I'd see him roll, quickly snatch up the die, roll again, and announce that he had "confirmed the crit". I said something out of game to the DM and some other players and they put a stop to it.
#12 volcanon2 Feb 23, 2009 14:59:08	Halflings can use greatswords. A small greatsword does 1d10. To the OP, are you sure they are using weapons they aren't proficient in? In the example above, a halfling fighter really could do 11+ damage/hit. A halfling using a greatclub has the same damage die as a human using a longsword. If you are used to seeing d8's rolled for a longsword, that would be a more automatic guess, rather than "small greatclub." Non-proficient means that they are using superior weapons without the feat to be proficient in it but are taking the proficiency bonus to hit.
#13 etarnon Feb 23, 2009 19:27:30	Decide if you are enjoying the game. If so, play on, if not, let the DM know that you don't like it, or bail at your option.
#14 sjmcc13 Feb 24, 2009 9:30:43	Non-proficient means that they are using superior weapons without the feat to be proficient in it but are taking the proficiency bonus to hit. Just out of curiosity as you know what feats they do not have, what weapons are they using, and what feats doe they have???
#15 volcanon2 Feb 24, 2009 15:30:35	well, one character had two one-handed d12 weapons with a damage modifier of +5 and a +2 weapon. Used twinstrike (no str mod), did over 30 on every hit. Which would be basically critting WITH the str mod.
#16 lordofthe9 Feb 24, 2009 17:21:52	Could be Waraxes (since that's their damage) and they are one handed. Could be legal, not saying it is, but you might want to ask how they are doing it. If you do it with a sense of wonder and awe, you'll probably get a good explanation if it's legit.
#17 volcanon2 Feb 24, 2009 21:18:19	2d12 + 2(2) = 28. Not thirty. At max damage.
#18 1red13 Feb 24, 2009 21:41:16	Just ask them . Ask in a way that isn't accusatory. You are trying to find out and that you were possibly unaware of the combination of weapons and feats that they are using. Just say it seems like you are doing a lot of damage consistently am i missing any houserules It shouldn't be a big deal for them to explain. More than anything else try not to come across as a rules lawyer but certainly inquire. If the players are misusing the rules it gives them a chance to graciously change things and if they are simply improperly informed hopefully they are good natured enough to fix their mistakes and not hold a grudge.
#19 volcanon2 Feb 25, 2009 0:39:51	Blah, but I have to "teach" people in all of my other games already. And they weren't particularly receptive when I told them they were not in fact proficient in using execution axe with a base fighter.
#20 DKase Feb 25, 2009 4:36:20	If the person is a dwarf with Dwarven Weapon training and Two Weapon Fighting that would add damage +3 to each roll and settle the matters of the proficiency as well.
#21 volcanon2 Feb 25, 2009 8:32:18	No. I checked - they didn't have anything.
#22 Arbitrary_Aardvark Feb 25, 2009 10:05:33	They may be mistakenly adding half their level to damage.
#23 tequila_sunrise Feb 25, 2009 13:57:30	Well if you can't beat 'em, join 'em! If this group isn't concerned with rules minutae, obviously they expect you not to be either. Not that you should go out of your way to pwn the game by ignoring rules like they do, but as long as you do it in a good natured kind of way, they shouldn't mind you doing what they do. TS
#24 crossblade Feb 26, 2009 6:42:43	How could you have checked but the DM not?
#25 sjmcc13 Feb 26, 2009 13:03:44	How could you have checked but the DM not? DM not bothering to make sure the PCs are legal/not doing his job. Or house-rules the DM did not inform the "new" player (the OP) of. Either way, the DM not doing his job ..... fully. But the DM should have at least a copy of their sheets, as it makes planing encounters they can handle much easier.